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 CrownAxe wrote:

 Sersi wrote:
I thought if an independent character joined the formation, they didn't benefit from the formation rules. Is that not so?

Depends on the formation rule's wording because IC become apart of a unit for all rules purposes (and nothing prohibits ICs from join a unit from a formation)

Okay, thanks. So maybe take a minimum CAD; 2-4X Heralds 2X minimum Daemonette squads. Maybe hold those in reserve to pinch objectives late game. Being forced to take so many units its kinda pointless to summon.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 vostroyan second born wrote:

chaos demons get Demonic Corruption "Objetive tokens count always as controlled, if at least they were controlled by a Demon unit before. This Works even if the unit is destroyed." and AM loses objective securde at infantry except infantry veterans in the vet formation.

Demonic Corruption alone is better than the whole cadia supplement ...

You can re-take objectives from Daemons... the point of Daemonic Corruption is that Daemons don't have to baby sit an objective for the entire game, which is really only of amazing to Khorne & Slaanesh since all they want to do is rush forwards and beat face.
Tzeentch gains the least from it, (as Horrors are still at their best when keeping the hell away from the enemy and just blasting them), while Nurgle still doesn't mind squatters in cover. (Nurglings especially!)

And really, the 'cheapest' Daemoncurion we can run is Slaanesh, which is still a minimum of 1070pts, which only gets you;
Slaaherald w/Lv2 + Exalted Locus
6x 10 Daemonettes
3 Khornate Grinders (the worst kind & no shooting attacks!)

That's complete and utter crap.

The Khorne & Tzeentch ones are literally only playable in 2k+ games... Hell, even going super cheap with Tzeentch, it's still 1073pts minimum for;
Tzherald w/Lv3 + Exalted Locus
2x 11 Horrors ('cause you absolutely need WC's with Tzeentch)
7x Exalted Flamers
3 Khornate Grinders with no shooting.


Our Daemonic Incursion detachment is bar far the outright worst of any of the 7.5 stuff... While I can sympathise with Guard who got absolutely miserable infantry based formations, the rest of the stuff is decent to solid.

The only things of worth thus far for Daemons are some of the relics, and (potentially) the new Warlord traits.

There are much cheaper Core formations. Tallyband with all Nurglings? Rotswarm with single Beasts? Gorethunder is only 505 before giving the Herald anything.

I think Warpflame Host has some powerful options.

If you take 8 Exalted Flamers you get 8d3 18" S10 ap2 shots or 8 Heldrake flamers. Thats a ton of damage, enough to remove most units and even significantly threat WKs and such.. The problem is that they can't move and shoot. But you can put them in a Bunker fortification and now they have a 4 Av14 HP in the way and anything that gets within 18" of the bunker will get immediately destroyed

Or the Herald. If you take Paradox and the obvious Exalted Locus you can guarntee casting 4d6 autocannon shots at Bs4. If you put him on a disc he can also JSJ, moving 12" shooting 4d6 autocannon shots and then turbo boost 24" to get out of LoS.

So if you get demonic corruption and your troops count as OS does that mean if you are playing an army that does not have OS you can technically win just by touching all the objectives? Or that someone would need to move something OS to the objective to retake the objective? This is pretty potent in progressive objective missions too.

Yes indeed the horrors and ex flamer formation can be extremely OP I think. Think it with DS on first turn with oracle disc. The discs rulings don't mention anything about not coming automatically on the beginning of your first turn.

 Fishboy wrote:
So if you get demonic corruption and your troops count as OS does that mean if you are playing an army that does not have OS you can technically win just by touching all the objectives? Or that someone would need to move something OS to the objective to retake the objective? This is pretty potent in progressive objective missions too.

Yeah, I'm interested to see the exact wording of this, but there has been no mention of anything getting OS in this detachment.

 1PlusLogan wrote:

 Fishboy wrote:
So if you get demonic corruption and your troops count as OS does that mean if you are playing an army that does not have OS you can technically win just by touching all the objectives? Or that someone would need to move something OS to the objective to retake the objective? This is pretty potent in progressive objective missions too.

Yeah, I'm interested to see the exact wording of this, but there has been no mention of anything getting OS in this detachment.

he specified that the corruption goes away if a scoring unit gets in range of the objective. Still, you can touch a backfield objective once, and get free maelstrom points. Heck, demons may be the first army who will actually be able to reliably score supremacy or w\e.

 Swampmist wrote:

 1PlusLogan wrote:

 Fishboy wrote:
So if you get demonic corruption and your troops count as OS does that mean if you are playing an army that does not have OS you can technically win just by touching all the objectives? Or that someone would need to move something OS to the objective to retake the objective? This is pretty potent in progressive objective missions too.

Yeah, I'm interested to see the exact wording of this, but there has been no mention of anything getting OS in this detachment.

he specified that the corruption goes away if a scoring unit gets in range of the objective. Still, you can touch a backfield objective once, and get free maelstrom points. Heck, demons may be the first army who will actually be able to reliably score supremacy or w\e.

Ah, good info. Thanks!

Seriously disappointed by the daemons release to be honest was hoping for some formations that were not fething full of GWs chaos FUN tax some of these seemed like they could be good however since having min Sacred God numbers is so much FUN they will pretty much take up your whole army I was at least hoping for a couple small ones which could easy fitted in a CSM army as a small allied formation or something.

Also where are the rules for the soul grinder formation? Why is that the only formation we don have rules yet , as it would be nice if it had some sort of buff that made it good (though I believe a similar formation was in the old apocalypse book so I suspect it'll be a crappy copy and paste) it's bad enough that most of our heavy support Daemon princes (when selected as heavies) or soul grinders don't have a base cost instead we fething have to take compulsory upgrades just to field them

On another note the tallyband with nurglings could be good especially with the corruption by infiltrating nurgling swarms to seize the majority of the objectives straight away

 plagueknight wrote:
Seriously disappointed by the daemons release to be honest was hoping for some formations that were not fething full of GWs chaos FUN tax some of these seemed like they could be good however since having min Sacred God numbers is so much FUN they will pretty much take up your whole army I was at least hoping for a couple small ones which could easy fitted in a CSM army as a small allied formation or something.

Also where are the rules for the soul grinder formation? Why is that the only formation we don have rules yet , as it would be nice if it had some sort of buff that made it good (though I believe a similar formation was in the old apocalypse book so I suspect it'll be a crappy copy and paste) it's bad enough that most of our heavy support Daemon princes (when selected as heavies) or soul grinders don't have a base cost instead we fething have to take compulsory upgrades just to field them

You do know that the Soul Grinder apoc formation let them assault out of deep strike right? That's not crappy thats amazing

Also soul grinder don't have to pay points if you don't want to (don't take a gun upgrade and you pick Khorne since its free)

 CrownAxe wrote:

 plagueknight wrote:
Seriously disappointed by the daemons release to be honest was hoping for some formations that were not fething full of GWs chaos FUN tax some of these seemed like they could be good however since having min Sacred God numbers is so much FUN they will pretty much take up your whole army I was at least hoping for a couple small ones which could easy fitted in a CSM army as a small allied formation or something.

Also where are the rules for the soul grinder formation? Why is that the only formation we don have rules yet , as it would be nice if it had some sort of buff that made it good (though I believe a similar formation was in the old apocalypse book so I suspect it'll be a crappy copy and paste) it's bad enough that most of our heavy support Daemon princes (when selected as heavies) or soul grinders don't have a base cost instead we fething have to take compulsory upgrades just to field them

You do know that the Soul Grinder apoc formation let them assault out of deep strike right? That's not crappy thats amazing

Also soul grinder don't have to pay points if you don't want to (don't take a gun upgrade and you pick Khorne since its free)

But I play Nurgle wow did not know that about the apocalypse formation hopefully it is a copy and paste then could be a perfect way of Giving CSMs access to soul grinders

 plagueknight wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 plagueknight wrote:
Seriously disappointed by the daemons release to be honest was hoping for some formations that were not fething full of GWs chaos FUN tax some of these seemed like they could be good however since having min Sacred God numbers is so much FUN they will pretty much take up your whole army I was at least hoping for a couple small ones which could easy fitted in a CSM army as a small allied formation or something.

Also where are the rules for the soul grinder formation? Why is that the only formation we don have rules yet , as it would be nice if it had some sort of buff that made it good (though I believe a similar formation was in the old apocalypse book so I suspect it'll be a crappy copy and paste) it's bad enough that most of our heavy support Daemon princes (when selected as heavies) or soul grinders don't have a base cost instead we fething have to take compulsory upgrades just to field them

You do know that the Soul Grinder apoc formation let them assault out of deep strike right? That's not crappy thats amazing

Also soul grinder don't have to pay points if you don't want to (don't take a gun upgrade and you pick Khorne since its free)

But I play Nurgle wow did not know that about the apocalypse formation hopefully it is a copy and paste then could be a perfect way of Giving CSMs access to soul grinders

GW give Chaos assault from deep strike?!! Hah...ha... Nope. It'll be something disappointing that's for sure.

8 units of hounds getting +1 attack, all benefitting from the herald on crushers loci is sick. Especially with the adjustment to the warpstorm.

8 units of 5 hounds - 640pts
Khorne Herald with loci on crusher - 110
3 Skull Cannons of Khorne - 375

So 1125 gets you an apoc ignore cover template that's ap3, 80 scouting flesh hound wounds that have rage near the herald. Count as scoring objectives they run past, and adjust the warpstorm. Seems solid.

Who the hell owns that many Daemons?

I could probably do the Daemonette one if they are min-sized units, but that's it.

I own the hounds honestly because of daemonkin. But yeah, the total nil umber is going to limit people. 99 horrors, 80 bloodletters or 70 plague bearers is crazy huge numbers.

My personal opinion guys is that even though I am disappointed I will give it some time, because we all expected something more like take this, cast that on 2+, profit. I want to learn everything, and then after some tests and consideration I will judge it altogether. But for now I can see a few things that I wanna share with you. Firstly as for the datasheets my point is that there is no reason for them to be there. The horror formation seems powerful and through reading it we can understand more but with some sort of synergy I believe it can be powerful. Also if the grinder formation is decent the decurion could cheaply work by using grinders and tally host with nurglings. As for the psychic I think they are mediocre though by kairos and another caster with the relic which learns you the whole change we could cast two Ds per turn. The warlord traits are a mystery still. But I have seen a few relics that can alone be OP for Daemons. Oracle disc, D khorne weapon (on 6s), paradox, the -1ld from nurgle, the khorne weapon which removes you from game. And I think we can find more. Surely GW at first glance screwed us but there will be another way.

I was hoping they would be the size of the daemon starter sets that were released a while back now that would of been perfect start off small with min requirements that could easily be fitted in.

No doubt I'll probably be disappoint by the soul grinder formation but regardless it looks like a pretty damn nice formation which adds 3+ soul grinders to a CSM army now that sounds good

 Hulksmash wrote:
I own the hounds honestly because of daemonkin. But yeah, the total nil umber is going to limit people. 99 horrors, 80 bloodletters or 70 plague bearers is crazy huge numbers.

And here I thought I was getting excessive with 36 plastic + 26 old metal Horrors! (and 2 more unopened boxes of the plastics)

I'm not sure what's worse, suddenly getting formations that are more suited to the number you'd expect from Guard/Orks/'Nids, or the fact that I'd be better off running $400 worth of Exalted Flamers for only 400pts... (oooh, 1pt = 1$, how special of you GW!)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Who the hell owns that many Daemons?

I could probably do the Daemonette one if they are min-sized units, but that's it.

I maxed out on Slaaneshi Daemons years ago, I could probably field ~200 daemonettes total. I only have like 50 Seekers though.
Ofcourse they were $16 for 10 back in the far gone days of 2008.

May I use the special new artifacts and psi powers always for my daemons or are there restrictions ? If it works, then this will be the main reason for me to get the book (tzeentch daemon prine with the 3+ save artifact seems nice to me or a D-weapon for my Khorne Herald).

Other possible things I see:

1. Khorne Daemonkin with 3 Maulerfiends in the HS slot AND 3 Soul Grinders with this formation. Careful: the soulgrinders do not generate blood points...


2. Lets'check what you can get as "cheap" formations without loosing to much fighting power:

Slannesh: First formation offers daemonettes and fiends. 3 fiends are fast and 105 points, but I don't think they are that good. But you only need 6 choices, so 18 fiends sound like a choice.
Second formation: This might be crazy because of the already good seekers that all get the bonus from the Herald.

Tzeentch: I think both formations are bad actually

Nurgle: First formation seems cheap with 7* nurlings, but nurglings won't win the game for you and are too expensive for that.
Second formation is where the fun lives: 6 Beasts of Nurgle (each only 52 points) and a big unit of Drones with Herald for FnP ? That sounds ok, but it can't be a core choice for the new detachment.

Khorne: First formation seems ok, 8*5 Dogs is something Daemonkin players have at home ;-). And +1 attack for each hound AND all units profit from the Heralds ability ? That is good.
Second..well I do not think that a full unit of this cannons is worth it.



So let's say we take the best core choice: Khorne Herald on Moloch with 8*5 Dogs
And then one of the good aux-choices: 6 Beasts of Nurgle and 1 Drone-group OR 3 Soul Grinders.

This actually sounds reasonable for me. What do you get ?

- Bonus attack for your dogs
- Dronestar can get +3 attacks per model and can reroll the charge range and the drones + beasts get poisened hammer of wrath.
- Reroll on instability
- The marker holding ability (so your hounds grab the markers and run on)
- + or - 1 on the warpstorm table

But this are already 1750(!) points. So this would also be your army:

- Herald of Nurgle
- Herald of Khorne
- 40 khorne dogs
- 6 nurgle beasts
- One big unit of drones

15 units, 17 kill points, only 2 psychic levels.

Might be the best thing for our new decurion. Any better ideas ?
Edit: i just realised that you could also take 18 fiends of slannesh and a slannesh herold instead of the 40 khorne dogs...but I think that is not really better.




To the formations itself:

- I will never try to field one of the "standard" choices outside of the try to use the decurion
- I might see myself using the nurgle one do get drones with 7 attacks on a charge (!)
- Even the khorne dog spam one is IMHO weaker than the gorepack. Gorepack gives you hammer of wrath and fearless dogs. 5 dogs might sitll loose a fight against 5 Marines and then you have to test for instability...what always sucks.

Still hoping for rules for the grinder formation being leaked

Warhams-77 wrote:
Pics by Captain Citadel - SpikeyBits forum

Midgardia....?

Seriously?

Melionodr wrote:
May I use the special new artifacts and psi powers always for my daemons or are there restrictions ? If it works, then this will be the main reason for me to get the book (tzeentch daemon prine with the 3+ save artifact seems nice to me or a D-weapon for my Khorne Herald).

Did I read correctly there is a global -1LD artefact for Nurgle?

I can see a lot of potential utility for that.

In a regular game of 40k, in order to get Daemonic Infestation with my Nurgle daemons (or any daemons aside from Slaanesh) I'm going to have to go past my troops cap for Force Organization, thereby effectively trading Objective Secured for this new rule. Am I wrong?

Guys does ANYone out there knows anything about the Soul grinder formation apart from it consists of three grinders????

pretty sure a screenshot was posted either here or in the Demons thread yesterday

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
pretty sure a screenshot was posted either here or in the Demons thread yesterday

Just the picture, not the rules

Here are the other dataslates, besides the already leaked Be'lakor and Exalted flamer:

 avedominusnox wrote:
Guys does ANYone out there knows anything about the Soul grinder formation apart from it consists of three grinders????

Really would like to know this too..... Why would anybody make pictures without the rules...? Its on the same page!!

shogun wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:
Guys does ANYone out there knows anything about the Soul grinder formation apart from it consists of three grinders????

Really would like to know this too..... Why would anybody make pictures without the rules...? Its on the same page!!

Pure speculation but I'm guessing the formation might grant each grinder more attacks. The fluff description mentions the grinders competing with each other and fighting all the harder.