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 Malisteen wrote:

thekingofkings wrote:
The old world had several rpg sources, video games and novels that really fleshed it out, their are ccg's and such as well. It was a very in depth setting that was tied tightly to its mini games. AoS has novels sorta, some sourcebooks and not alot else going for it. it is a very "alien" setting for fantasy, it should have been a complete new setting, new all around, as it is, it is pretty nonsensical. the style of fantasy feels like they went from tolkein to eberron with nothing in between.

Less 'Tolkein to Eberron' and more 'Lord of the Rings to Silmarillian', imo.

...which is an interesting comparison, because AoS could seriously use that chapter on geography.

Oh certainly. At the same time, Eberron's geography was also pretty well defined from it's initial release, though it was an rpg setting, which has different needs from a minis game setting.

 pox wrote:
To put it another way, I know more from the released books about Aleguzzler Gargants then I do about brettonia. If I played brettonia, I think I would like to know more about where they are at, so I could forge the narrative with my army. I think I would also like to know if my army even exists!

That more then anything is the Crux of the issue. What armies and units are still going to get support, and what armies are getting canned.The only Empire models they have shown are battle priests and Flagellants. What about elves? What about the old Dwarf line? are the ogres moving over whole cloth, or just some of the units? I see a lot about Nagash, what about Settra and the Tomb kings?

Everything in the core books listed as "free people" would be the fluff related to a-Bretonnian-like faction (nobility and peasantry). A very simplified answer and guess, imo, is that the general theme of armies made for Warhammer Fantasy Battle would have a similar theme/feel in the Age of Sigmar setting as "different factions" within a grand alliance. Tomb King models likely will be listed into a Deathrattle (merging with a section within Vampire Counts) and Reanimants faction in future Grand Alliance supplements. I think the Grand Alliance Chaos book is a good example on how a majority of the miniatures from Fantasy is being incorporated into Age of Sigmar setting. GW have put a "last chance to buy" list on their online store, so that should help those that is waiting on the fence to finish their collection. The warscroll compendiums have a small paragraph each on how models from Fantasy are being Age of Sigmarfied into the current age.

Grand Alliance Chaos: - 21 factions in which 20 of them have ties to WFB models. Varanguard completely new models, Khorne Bloodbound partially new models
Beastmen - The haunted forests and wastelands of the realms are home to savage creatures that live only to trample and despoil. Some call them the horned ones, others the true children of Chaos, but to mortal men they are known as Beastmen. When the horns of battle call, the warherds mass alongside their bull-headed brethren to fight alongside the armies of Chaos. The only reward they seek is the chance to wreak utter havoc upon everything in their path.

Daemons - Hellish spawn of the Dark Gods, the daemons of Chaos exist only to corrupt and destroy. They are the foot soldiers of Chaos, malicious entities whose very existence is anathema to the Mortal Realms. Though each Chaos God is served by their own rival daemons, all put aside their difference to invade the Mortal Realms. Only the most courageous can stand before such infernal hordes, and even they stand little chance…

Skaven - Screeching and scrabbling throughout time and space, the skaven gnaw at the fringes of every nation. The Children of the Horned Rat infest the Mortal Realms much as vermin infest a sewer, watching, lurking and sniffing out opportunities to further their vile agendas. They are each desperate to rise above friend and foe alike, and will commit acts of shocking betrayal to do so, for all skaven possess a vicious ingenuity born of a desire for conquest.

Warriors of Chaos - The mortal worshipers of Chaos gather together in warbands mighty enough to conquer entire nations. Though the tyrannical lords lead the armoured hordes believe themselves to be warrior kings born to rule the Mortal Realms with an iron fist, they are bound to higher powers in their turn. In truth, every murderer, monster, and mutant in their armies is but a slave to darkness and a puppet of the Dark Gods.

Grand Alliance Order - Stormcast Eternals and Fyreslayer Duardins two new factions with completely new models.
Free People (Bretonnia and Empire) - In fair Sigmaron the free people of humanity gather, preserving heraldry and cultural traditions from civilizations ground beneath the weight of unceasing strike. The clamour of warlike souls fills the heavens, united in Sigmar's name. Though some of these lost tribes have been driven from their homelands, and others cast adrift on the tides of time, every soul amongst them dreams of wreaking revenge upon the forces of Chaos.

Aelf Exiles (Dark Elves) - Embittered and cruel, the aelf Exiles roam the Mortal Realms bringing death to every foe they meet. These swift and vicious warriors are ostensibly allies of Sigmar. In truth, they serve only the shadowy Malerion, and themselves. Emerging from the darkened places of the realms, the Exile warbands engage in lightning raids that leave ravaged corpses piled high in their wake. Then they vanish as quickly as they came, like smoke melting away on the breeze.

Dispossesed Duardins (Dwarf) - The air rings with cannon fire and booming Khazalid hymns as the Dispossessed go to war. No more resolute or resilient force is there in all the Mortal Realms, and when these duardin set forth from the gates of Azyrheim the ground shakes to their marching tread. The Dispossessed have lost everything they held dear to the servants of Chaos. All these duardin have left is their grudges, and they fight harder than ever to see them avenged.

Aelf Highborns (High Elves) - Once, the aelf Highborn were mighty. They ruled, proud and regal, over glittering cities and wonders beyond count. All of that is gone now. In place of their lost lands the Highborn have only the endless war against Chaos. Though they defend enclaves throughout the Mortal Realms, the greatest concentration of Highborn dwells in Azyrheim. Here they fight for Sigmar's alliance, raising militia armies to hold back the tides of darkness.

Seraphon (Lizardmen) - The Seraphon are beings of order, creatures of the stars whose minds and bodies sing with Azyrite energy. They are the sworn enemies of Chaos, ever-opposed to the Dark Gods and the bedlam they bring. The cold-blooded savagery of the Seraphon is legendary. Directed by the inscrutable slann, their tightly disciplined cohorts and roaring saurian beasts tear through their enemies with the ferocity of true predators.

Aelf Wanderers and Sylvaneth (Wood Elves) - Amid the forests of the Mortal Realms, aelven peoples roam at will. Travelling in nomadic warbands led by mighty heroes and mages, these wanderers deal swift death to their enemies wherever they may be found. The aelves of the deep woods are servants of order, with a strange bond to the sylvaneth--yet they are also capricious beings and lethal wayfarers, who are swift to exact a toll in blood from any who would wrong them.

Grand Alliance Death
Reanimants and Deathrattle (Tomb Kings) - The lands of the dead are home to revenant armies, and amongst them are the phalanxes of the Tomb Kings. Those undying legions are led to war by megalomaniacal conquerors whose dynasty stretches across the aeons. Beside serried ranks of skeletons and chariots fight stone-hard reanimants and creatures from the barren deserts of the afterlife. When bound to the will of Nagash and the other masters of death, the Tomb Kings are unstoppable.

Flesh-Eater, Malignants, Deathrattle (Vampire Counts) - In the war-torn Mortal Realms, the unquiet dead are plentiful indeed. Some have the power to bind the slain to their will, from the most bestial corpse to the most kingly of spectres. Their revenant armies walk abroad in every realm, grave-cold blades hacking into warm flesh whenever their masters seek dominion over the living. None can rival Nagash, the Great Necromancer - even Sigmar himself has cause to fear his name.

Grand Alliance Destruction
Ogors (Ogre Kingdoms) - The hulking ogors are obsessed with two things - eating and fighting. Given the chance, they will indulge in both at the same time. Emerging from their lairs in cave networks, mountainsides and tumbled ruins, the ravenous ogors and their savage beasts go to war in every Mortal Realm. Brutish and dense, a single ogor can flatten a dwelling-place, whilst a rampaging horde of the gluttonous bullies can topple an entire city.

Greenskin (Orcs & Goblins) - Nothing slaps a grin onto a greenskin's face like a good bit of smashing stuff up. Whether thuggish orruks or sneaky grots, drunken gargants or dumb-as-rock troggoths, all live for the day the Great Waagh! Is declared. Part holy crusade, part anarchic riot, the Great Waagh! Sweeps across the realms laying waste to all in its path. So do the greenskins worship Gorkamorka, through total destruction and indiscriminate mayhem.

Edit: While a defined map for all the realms are not present, there are illustrated maps of the areas where the ongoing narrative is taking place.

Unfortunately the Free People fluff from the compendium is already confusing because it states they live in/on Sigmaron, but unless I am mistaken, Sigmaron is the space station orbiting Mallus (The Twin Tailed Comet/The Old World). We had a thread on this previously ('Do the Empire now live in a Space Station?')

Edit - looking into this now, looks like I was confusing Sigmaron and Sigmarion. Sigmarion is the space station, and Sigmaron is a "palace-city" (White Dwarf #76 p.29) - although Azyrheim is described as the "last city", but whatever, there's also another not-city (a palace city) called Sigmaron and all the brets and empires live inside its walls I guess...

Bottle - I view Sigmaron like a military base within a city. Inside the base there are houses for military family, convenience stores, etc, in which you could raised a family without the need to leave the base. So Sigmaron the Palace City or Stronghold is within the city of Azyrheim. I am looking at the White Dwarf you cited, and I don't see "Sigmarion" listed on that page. Different language White Dwarf? (USA White Dwarf for me).

I assume the names Empire and Bretonnia will likely not be used in the Age of Sigmar setting, but collectively as the free people which includes tribal people. Specific factions within the free people; however will likely "emphasized the heraldry and cultural traditions" of the Empire and Bretonnia.

For those worrying about place of Warhammer Fantasy armies this is an interesting (fluffwise I feel it is a poor cop-out by GW) text from Page 71 of the first hardback book related to Azyrheim: "...refugees from all realms had fled there. The newcomers swelled what was already a vast and diverse population that included entire armies from the world-that-was."

That page citation was for Sigmaron (and its description as a palace-city) rather than Sigmarion. I took the two different spellings from the Lexicanum on the Internet, but it looks like they have made a mistake. What is the name of the space station around Mallus? And what happens there?

Edit: I'm looking through the Empire 8th Edition Army book currently too - and there is so much great information (too much to type up). There is a whole section titled "Citizens of the Empire" where it goes into regional differences from everything including dialects to building materials and architectural styles. There is also plenty of information on merchants, trade and economic rivalries including a section on Marienburg securing its independence by making an massive payment in gold to the Imperial Coffers.

It's definitely not conjecture or guess-work that makes the Empire seem so real even from reading just the Army Book.

I think I am coming across as too much a naysayer in this thread - I am embracing Age of Sigmar whole heartedly - I have been painting miniatures for it and playing it constantly since July. I have made my own custom Battletome full of fluff and background for my army too. I acknowledge that the lore is getting better, and I am very enthusiastic about that. I think I might buy 'The Balance of Power' as there are now enough of my favorite factions in it to make it interesting...

But it is still very frustrating to not even know some basic principles of the world.

Bottom - I'm not 100% sure if the ring built around Mallus has a name. On the ring itself are "celestial palaces built of stone"...'so large only a Gighemoth could heft them."

"The Broken World" is underneath the great palace of Sigmar. So I would think the ring with palaces + the palace on top of Mallus altogether is Sigmaron.

So the Empire and Brets are on the Space Station? :-p

I think the fact that we're all having to discuss what's what is testament to it being too vague. Although I am picking stuff together from the many White Dwarfs I have bought to learn more about the Mortal Realms. If there is a section in one of the big books about Azyerheim - Sigmaron and the many inhabitants of both places I would be grateful to hear what they say as I do not have any of the big books yet.

The space station is pretty freaking huge to my understanding. Might as well be a moon, one might say. Plenty of room for multiple distinct civilizations.

But as for the specifics of where the AoS's bret and empire stand ins are located, should they exist, that isn't clear yet.

However, given that we've now seen a Grand Alliance of Chaos book with nearly every old faction and model represented, I think at the moment it's probably safe to assume the designers will find some place for them, to keep the models and rules valid.

Whether they ever see new models or rules in the future, that's more doubtful.

My money is on a "Cult of Sigmar" faction made up of warrior priests - a multiple part plastic kit for whole units of them. It would be amazing :-D

I wonder if they'll fill out the fluff much before they abandon AoS due to low sales, I imagine they'll release what's already been printed then ignore it like Lord of the rings.

While we're on the subject of the empire, does anyone know what happened to the gods worshipped in the empire? I know that Morr was killed by Nagash in the end times and of course Sigmar is still around, but I haven't seen any mention of Ulric, Shallya or Taal, and I dare say there were others that I'm forgetting.

hobojebus wrote:
I wonder if they'll fill out the fluff much before they abandon AoS due to low sales, I imagine they'll release what's already been printed then ignore it like Lord of the rings.

It's very unlikely to be abandoned. If so, it won't be for several years.

 Bottle wrote:
So the Empire and Brets are on the Space Station? :-p

I think the fact that we're all having to discuss what's what is testament to it being too vague. Although I am picking stuff together from the many White Dwarfs I have bought to learn more about the Mortal Realms. If there is a section in one of the big books about Azyerheim - Sigmaron and the many inhabitants of both places I would be grateful to hear what they say as I do not have any of the big books yet.

Well, it would help greatly with discussion if you are comparing fluff between Fantasy Battle big books to the Age of Sigmar big books...to actually have read the big books! If you are looking for the Age of Sigmar books to give the same type of information that the Fantasy main book and supplements give, you will not get it.

My guess is that for the Grand Alliance Order - the free people will be divided in a similar way as the Warriors of Chaos/Daemons/Skaven/Beastmen were given in Age of Sigmar: Knightly Orders, State Regiment. Nobility. Peasantry.

 VeteranNoob wrote:

thekingofkings wrote:
The old world had several rpg sources, video games and novels that really fleshed it out, their are ccg's and such as well. It was a very in depth setting that was tied tightly to its mini games. AoS has novels sorta, some sourcebooks and not alot else going for it. it is a very "alien" setting for fantasy, it should have been a complete new setting, new all around, as it is, it is pretty nonsensical. the style of fantasy feels like they went from tolkein to eberron with nothing in between.

This is a great point about development. For those of us really into the WFB universe the RPG material for the first two editions provided some nice fluff for the world if one wanted to write up fluff for one's army or Mordheim gang or whatever. I leave out third Ed. because all of my groups avoided it and stuck with 2nd plus some supplements from 1st. Loved Doomstones!

Way too early to know if there will be an RPG for AoS or if Fantasy Flight might be able to work on some game within the bounds of the new game, as seemingly endless that they are at this point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Malisteen wrote:

 VeteranNoob wrote:
To your point i admit I do wonder where the audio dramas fit in the timeline. Since they were spread out my assumption is they were before the big campaign books, although I don't have them all so not exacyly sure where Nagash does [removed due to spoiler] but who knows. More audio drama series are coming, one very, very soon. I didn't like his voice at first listen but eventually powered through the dramas back to back and the voice grew on me. Just so many actors repeat across many titles so I know there's a limit but sometimes it's distracting.

Yeah, Nagash's voice was not what I expected or wanted, but it grew on me by the end.

Spoiler:

Didn't forgive the way the story portrayed him as a petulent, self-destructive child without any cleverness or guile, acting completely opposed to his own interests, nor the way it portrayed his command over the dead as so much weaker than Sigmar's that even in his inner sanctum, at the very seat of his power he couldn't hold onto even a handful of Stormcast souls.

Arkhan's voice, on the other hand... no. That's all wrong. Too deep, too throaghty, and way, way too british. It was a voice for a Merlin or a Gandalf or a Dumbledore, an old but very much alive english wizard. Not a voice for a millennia-old ancient-egyptian skeletal lich. Arkhan's voice needed to be dryer, almost whispered, and with an Egyptian accent. It's a minor complaint next to the characterization problems with Nagash, but it bothered me, as Arkhan is my mortarch of choice.

I'm a long time Chaos Marine player in 40k, Black Legion in particular, so I'm used to the disappointment that comes with hackneyed Black Library authors dumping all over their settings' villains in an attempt to make the heroes seem more invincible and cool, completely oblivious to the basic heroic narrative rule that your heroes are only as heroic as the villains they face are genuinely threatening. It's a major problem with 40k fiction, and it's sad to see the Sigmarines polluting the new fantasy fluff with those same problems.

Hopefully the problems with Nagash's portrayal stay in the audio dramas, and his presentation in future work goes back to the competent and manipulative Nagash of the End Times books.

Absolutely agree on the voice mentioned in the spoiler. I'm new-ish still to Dakka and I haven't explored all the different buttons I can use
I think given this we should revisit this topic, oh, in say, 3-5 weeks or so

I dont believe FFG will touch this turd with a 10 foot pole.

 Mymearan wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
I wonder if they'll fill out the fluff much before they abandon AoS due to low sales, I imagine they'll release what's already been printed then ignore it like Lord of the rings.

It's very unlikely to be abandoned. If so, it won't be for several years.

It's a pretty big flop and GW has a proven track record where flops are concerned, look no further than the hobit.

Continuing to release stuff for a game selling far less than the one it replaced is throwing good money after bad, already we've seen they can't sell limited edition books for AoS they've had to give them out free, dwarves either didn't get one or they didn't release it to avoid embarrassment.

They'll release stuff already made but once that's done it'll be left to wither and die.

I doubt AoS will be around long enough to answer our lore questions.

Sadly with GW's decision to focus on epic battles in magical places with contrived names, there's no longer a place for subtlety and real world building.

Just looked at a PDF of the 6th edition Dwarf armybook. From that I can learn...

-A brief but in-depth history of the Dwarf race.

-What exactly are Slayers or the Engineer's Guild, etc? What do they do and why do they exist?

-Who are some of the most renowned heroes and leaders in Dwarf history? Why are they so famous and revered?

-What's the Dwarf language like? The alphabet? Examples of words and sentences?

-Detailed descriptions of Dwarf holds like Karak Azgal, Barak Varr, etc. What are they known for? What have they gone through?

-What is Dwarf society like? What is expected of them? Why will they go to war? What are Dwarfs living in The Empire like?

Sadly I don't think GW has the talent anymore to come up with new worlds like this. And if they did I doubt they would be given the creative freedom to do so with how the studio design process has been leaked to be like.

Instead we'll just get more of Vandus Hammerhand smiting Goretide left and right in an enormous battle that most men would have given up on, but not the Stormcast. Because they are demi-gods among men clad in Sigmarite armor, and they know no fear.

You forgot "shall" Pojko.

Davor wrote:
You forgot "shall" Pojko.

Heh, well I didn't want to quote it verbatim. But now that I've been exposed, this is something I read from the free excerpt of "Vengeance Eternal", a story about the Stormcast Eternals.

"Mortal warriors might have balked at being thrown back into the war so quickly, but these demigods were no mortals; they were giants, forged for war and destined for battle."

If you replaced "God-King" with "Emperor" and "Stormcast" with "Astartes", this story could very honestly be mistaken for Space Marines. The choice of words, terminology, imagery, dialogue by the Stormcasts themselves is all very, very 40K.

 Pojko wrote:

Davor wrote:
You forgot "shall" Pojko.

Heh, well I didn't want to quote it verbatim. But now that I've been exposed, this is something I read from the free excerpt of "Vengeance Eternal", a story about the Stormcast Eternals.

"Mortal warriors might have balked at being thrown back into the war so quickly, but these demigods were no mortals; they were giants, forged for war and destined for battle."

If you replaced "God-King" with "Emperor" and "Stormcast" with "Astartes", this story could very honestly be mistaken for Space Marines. The choice of words, terminology, imagery, dialogue by the Stormcasts themselves is all very, very 40K.

And this is why I can't get into Sigmarines. I don't know why, I just don't like it. Talk about GW regurgitating their stuff now.. If anything, at least GW is ripping themselves off instead of other IPs this time around.

At least their starter sets and everything else besides Sigmarines is good and getting me interested.

hobojebus wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
I wonder if they'll fill out the fluff much before they abandon AoS due to low sales, I imagine they'll release what's already been printed then ignore it like Lord of the rings.

It's very unlikely to be abandoned. If so, it won't be for several years.

It's a pretty big flop and GW has a proven track record where flops are concerned, look no further than the hobit.

Continuing to release stuff for a game selling far less than the one it replaced is throwing good money after bad, already we've seen they can't sell limited edition books for AoS they've had to give them out free, dwarves either didn't get one or they didn't release it to avoid embarrassment.

They'll release stuff already made but once that's done it'll be left to wither and die.

I doubt AoS will be around long enough to answer our lore questions.

Let's just agree to disagree. I'll get back to you in a few years and we'll see whose wishful thinking is proven true.

 pox wrote:

I think they should just bite the bullet and show their cards.

I think you can blame chapterhouse et al for this. GW have had their fingers burnt in terms of IP, so the days of stuff being trailed months before a physical product are done.

It's not ideal, but it's a glass half full / half empty scenario. On the one hand, Dark Elf players have no clear idea what's going on other than a synopsis of what Malerion's up to and recent mentions of 'the shadowkin'.
On the other, no news is good news on the mini front. It means stuff is coming *because* there is no imagery for it.
Quantum physics in gaming. Whodathunk?

RoperPG wrote:

 pox wrote:

I think they should just bite the bullet and show their cards.

I think you can blame chapterhouse et al for this. GW have had their fingers burnt in terms of IP, so the days of stuff being trailed months before a physical product are done.

It's not ideal, but it's a glass half full / half empty scenario. On the one hand, Dark Elf players have no clear idea what's going on other than a synopsis of what Malerion's up to and recent mentions of 'the shadowkin'.
On the other, no news is good news on the mini front. It means stuff is coming *because* there is no imagery for it.
Quantum physics in gaming. Whodathunk?

I'm not sure it's fair to blame Chapterhouse but would rather attribute it to GW's own incompetence/stupidity.

GW makes rules for something, gives us artwork for it, and then doesn't make a model. Now we don't know when or even if GW will make that model, so someone else makes it (legally). If GW weren't trying to use the codex model to make people re buy the rules every few years it would be easy to just release the rules alongside the model when it is ready (what I assume will be happening with AoS).

I think the problem has nothing to do with GW getting their fingers burnt and everything to do with GW perceiving themselves to have had their fingers burnt because they were overconfident and not actually understanding the way IP law works in that scenario.

 jonolikespie wrote:

RoperPG wrote:

 pox wrote:

I think they should just bite the bullet and show their cards.

I think you can blame chapterhouse et al for this. GW have had their fingers burnt in terms of IP, so the days of stuff being trailed months before a physical product are done.

It's not ideal, but it's a glass half full / half empty scenario. On the one hand, Dark Elf players have no clear idea what's going on other than a synopsis of what Malerion's up to and recent mentions of 'the shadowkin'.
On the other, no news is good news on the mini front. It means stuff is coming *because* there is no imagery for it.
Quantum physics in gaming. Whodathunk?

I'm not sure it's fair to blame Chapterhouse but would rather attribute it to GW's own incompetence/stupidity.

GW makes rules for something, gives us artwork for it, and then doesn't make a model. Now we don't know when or even if GW will make that model, so someone else makes it (legally). If GW weren't trying to use the codex model to make people re buy the rules every few years it would be easy to just release the rules alongside the model when it is ready (what I assume will be happening with AoS).

I think the problem has nothing to do with GW getting their fingers burnt and everything to do with GW perceiving themselves to have had their fingers burnt because they were overconfident and not actually understanding the way IP law works in that scenario.

Sorry, poor choice of words on my part - but the intended meaning was as you described.

I agree that things are vague for legal reasons, I also feel it does more harm then good to the game and company.

A lot of other products have to deal with knock-offs and mod kits, some of them can protect IP and sue, other cannot. (cars, motorcycles, and fashion for instance.)

The options are to either market the name, ensuring quality that way. Harley-Davidson is well aware of after market sales, and because cars are considered utility anyone is free to make parts that fit. In the past they have worked with the companies, and eventually came out with their Screamin' Eagle line of aftermarket parts, emblazoned with their logo.

Fashion is even harder, they can't be protected at all. That's why the designer name and logo are so important in that industry, its the only thing that can get a copyright.

What boggles my mind is GW is already in the right place to leverage against these knock-offs. It's their IP that's so valuable, along with the quality of their mini's and their production/shipping schedules are top notch. (I'm talking about QC and manufacturing specifically, not aesthetics.)

I feel like they could just hype "genuine GamesWorkshop" even more then they do, there are already a number of players who only use GW products including paint and tools. This of course means accepting third party bits and knock-offs, and they already understand the full scope of what they can and can't sue for. (for a personal clarification I didn't agree with what Chapterhouse was doing, but in the end it seemed to mostly have the result of GW being a bully in the gamer collective and did far more harm then good.)

At the end of the day, their tight hold on the narrative and background is doing a ton of damage. I get that some armies will just have generic "heavy cav" and that's it, but it takes away the flavor. I used to have a Knights of Morr empire army, I'm glad I sold that years ago, it would have no place in AoS at all.

This is all assuming that the lack of info is for legal reasons, of course.

jonolikespie wrote:

RoperPG wrote:

 pox wrote:

I think they should just bite the bullet and show their cards.

I think you can blame chapterhouse et al for this. GW have had their fingers burnt in terms of IP, so the days of stuff being trailed months before a physical product are done.

It's not ideal, but it's a glass half full / half empty scenario. On the one hand, Dark Elf players have no clear idea what's going on other than a synopsis of what Malerion's up to and recent mentions of 'the shadowkin'.
On the other, no news is good news on the mini front. It means stuff is coming *because* there is no imagery for it.
Quantum physics in gaming. Whodathunk?

I'm not sure it's fair to blame Chapterhouse but would rather attribute it to GW's own incompetence/stupidity.

GW makes rules for something, gives us artwork for it, and then doesn't make a model. Now we don't know when or even if GW will make that model, so someone else makes it (legally). If GW weren't trying to use the codex model to make people re buy the rules every few years it would be easy to just release the rules alongside the model when it is ready (what I assume will be happening with AoS).

I think the problem has nothing to do with GW getting their fingers burnt and everything to do with GW perceiving themselves to have had their fingers burnt because they were overconfident and not actually understanding the way IP law works in that scenario.

Hey we agree on something.

That is what I was going to say, but see you said it. Well said.

I dont think changing the names of races to horridly spelled stupid sounding names was a good idea. here listen to Kylo Ren explain it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbLqiKg9JkA Not for kids.

Davor wrote:


Hey we agree on something.

That is what I was going to say, but see you said it. Well said.

Should I check the sky for four men riding horses?

I gave it a good go. I bought the first two AoS leaders limited edition books. Which by the way are beautiful books that look fab on the shelf and to read. I just didn't enjoy them or the setting. I'm not hating on the whole thing it's just not my cup of tea. I like sword and sorcery fantasy but this is far far away from that. As some have said its not, at least the ones I have read, particularly we'll written. I found the books confusing which combined with a setting I'm not interested in left me bored rigid. There are too many fantasy books to read out there and I still adore 40/30k fiction so aside from being slightly annnoyed I can't complete a very pretty book collection I'm out. Give it a try for yourself start with the gates of az, you might love it!

 Tainted wrote:
While we're on the subject of the empire, does anyone know what happened to the gods worshipped in the empire? I know that Morr was killed by Nagash in the end times and of course Sigmar is still around, but I haven't seen any mention of Ulric, Shallya or Taal, and I dare say there were others that I'm forgetting.

The Old World gods have seemingly been replaced with a new pantheon populated mostly by the End Times incarnates, plus a few more.

Sigmar, Tyrion (the blind god of light, who sees through the eyes of his mortal but ageless brother & high priest Teclis), Malerion (God of Shadow, the ghost of Malekith preserved beyond death by his dark magic and fused with the body and spirit of his dragon Seraphon, served by his high priest Morathi - no word on her current relationship with Chaos or how she went from Slaanesh's clutches to Malerion's service), Alarielle (reclusive goddess of life & fertility, who grew the new world's Sylvaneth from seeds taken from the old world, and sticks mostly to the realm of life), Nagash (god of death, who slew and consumed most of the other old world gods who managed to survive the End Times), Gork & Mork (gods of brutality and cunning,now two gods again after breaking with the rest of the pantheon to go on a wild rampage and getting defeated and split apart by Sigmar so that they could occupy each other), Grimnir (though this 'Grimnir' might actually have been Gotrek, regardless the dwarven god of battle and vengeance is now half fire-god salamander and scattered throughout the realms as magical 'ur-gold', the fyreslayers seek to re-unite his parts, though what form he'd take were that to happen is an open question), Grungni (dwarven artificer-god of hearth and clan, who forged the stormcast for Sigmar),

These, along with other unnamed greater and lesser divinities, made up Sigmar's great alliance, and were the pantheon worshipped by the peoples of the mortal realms, until the dissolution of that alliance allowed chaos to take over most of them.