Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
I've found a wealth of background information in the various fluff pieces.
Azyr
This mostly comes from Ghal Maraz
-When Vandus is reforged in Sigmarion he takes a peak into the night sky and looks down off the side of Sigmarion and remarks on the sleepy verdant fields below and the people under their protection.
Spoiler:
"“To their right loomed the sphere of Mallus, the world remnant. It had swollen in the wake of the Stormhosts’ first victories. The metal was glutted with magic, and the surface glinted with an iridescent sheen. To their left the heavens of Azyr opened. Nowhere in any realm was there a night sky more beautiful; it blazed with stars of all colours and sizes, jewels set upon sumptuous cloths woven from nebulae. Rising through it was the Celestial Stair, a slash of bright metal climbing “impossibly high, its top anchored beneath the High Star Sigendil. A handful of Azyr’s many moons arced gracefully along their heavenly tracks, while the lands of the Celestial Realm slumbered below. Rivers glinted in lazy loops of beaten steel, and towns and villages were picked out by yellow dots of lamplight. Forests were seas of purplish black in the moonlight, and farmland an orderly miniature landscape wrought in silver.”
-Again walking through Sigmarion a host of mortal servants are described as aiding the works of the Stormcast as smiths and forgers.
Spoiler:
"“They left the quenching chambers and came through obscure ways to the exposed surface of the Sigmarabulum. Once more it churned with industry. The quiet before their assault on Aqshy had been but a pause, and now the magics and machineries there worked hard again, healing and remaking those warriors who had fallen. Sigmar’s wizard-artisans and their helpers hurried about. They paid no attention to the demigods striding among them – such sights were unremarkable in this city of wonders.”
-We see the area around the Azyr Realmgate has been turned into a fortified area with mortals from Azyr again lending aid.
Spoiler:
"“Upon the narrow plain by the great Silver River of Anvrok stood the Bright Tor Gate, an ancient edifice open once more by Sigmar’s decree. A camp had sprung up. The ruins about the gate were thick with artisans from the Eternal City, working under the watchful protection of the Lord-Castellants and their warriors, whose keen eyes were ever searching for signs of attack.
Everywhere were the signs of fresh works. Wizard-wrights levitated the tumbled blocks of broken fortifications to stand once more atop one another, their fellows mortaring them into place with molten stone jetting from lances that burned with a magical heat. New life returned to the bones of the dead town. The gate shone with pure energies of untainted magic. Chrono-smiths worked their gentle but potent spells, walking solemnly around and around the gate’s town, and their deep, sonorous chants provided a calming counter note to the clamour of construction. Wherever their sandalled feet passed, the land seemed changed, cleansed.
The realm was healing.”
Aqshy
-Again much of human civilization in the realm has been obliterated by the works of Chaos, overtaken by corruption. The Stormcasts themselves are a gateway into what the setting was before its destruction such as in "Assault on Mandrake Keep"
Spoiler:
“My kingdom, Orius thought, as he stalked forward, at the head of his warriors. While he, like many Stormcasts, could but dimly recall the days of his own mortality before his death and Reforging at Sigmar’s hand, Orius remembered enough. He could still recall the heady musk of the Ashen Jungle after rain, and the way the colossal roots of the immense trees had wound through the walls and streets of Uryx. The jungle and the city were one, and its people comfortable in either. He had been comfortable in either. Klaxus had been his home.”
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/07 20:14:35
Cataphract wrote: I've found a wealth of background information in the various fluff pieces.
Azyr
This mostly comes from Ghal Maraz
-When Vandus is reforged in Sigmarion he takes a peak into the night sky and looks down off the side of Sigmarion and remarks on the sleepy verdant fields below and the people under their protection.
"“To their right loomed the sphere of Mallus, the world remnant. It had swollen in the wake of the Stormhosts’ first victories. The metal was glutted with magic, and the surface glinted with an iridescent sheen. To their left the heavens of Azyr opened. Nowhere in any realm was there a night sky more beautiful; it blazed with stars of all colours and sizes, jewels set upon sumptuous cloths woven from nebulae. Rising through it was the Celestial Stair, a slash of bright metal climbing “impossibly high, its top anchored beneath the High Star Sigendil. A handful of Azyr’s many moons arced gracefully along their heavenly tracks, while the lands of the Celestial Realm slumbered below. Rivers glinted in lazy loops of beaten steel, and towns and villages were picked out by yellow dots of lamplight. Forests were seas of purplish black in the moonlight, and farmland an orderly miniature landscape wrought in silver.”
-Again walking through Sigmarion a host of mortal servants are described as aiding the works of the Stormcast as smiths and forgers. "“They left the quenching chambers and came through obscure ways to the exposed surface of the Sigmarabulum. Once more it churned with industry. The quiet before their assault on Aqshy had been but a pause, and now the magics and machineries there worked hard again, healing and remaking those warriors who had fallen. Sigmar’s wizard-artisans and their helpers hurried about. They paid no attention to the demigods striding among them – such sights were unremarkable in this city of wonders.”
-We see the area around the Azyr Realmgate has been turned into a fortified area with mortals from Azyr again lending aid.
"“Upon the narrow plain by the great Silver River of Anvrok stood the Bright Tor Gate, an ancient edifice open once more by Sigmar’s decree. A camp had sprung up. The ruins about the gate were thick with artisans from the Eternal City, working under the watchful protection of the Lord-Castellants and their warriors, whose keen eyes were ever searching for signs of attack.
Everywhere were the signs of fresh works. Wizard-wrights levitated the tumbled blocks of broken fortifications to stand once more atop one another, their fellows mortaring them into place with molten stone jetting from lances that burned with a magical heat. New life returned to the bones of the dead town. The gate shone with pure energies of untainted magic. Chrono-smiths worked their gentle but potent spells, walking solemnly around and around the gate’s town, and their deep, sonorous chants provided a calming counter note to the clamour of construction. Wherever their sandalled feet passed, the land seemed changed, cleansed.
The realm was healing.”
Aqshy
-Again much of human civilization in the realm has been obliterated by the works of Chaos, overtaken by corruption. The Stormcasts themselves are a gateway into what the setting was before its destruction such as in "Assault on Mandrake Keep"
“My kingdom, Orius thought, as he stalked forward, at the head of his warriors. While he, like many Stormcasts, could but dimly recall the days of his own mortality before his death and Reforging at Sigmar’s hand, Orius remembered enough. He could still recall the heady musk of the Ashen Jungle after rain, and the way the colossal roots of the immense trees had wound through the walls and streets of Uryx. The jungle and the city were one, and its people comfortable in either. He had been comfortable in either. Klaxus had been his home.”
Is that your words or from the book? If from the books?
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
Cataphract wrote: I've found a wealth of background information in the various fluff pieces.
Azyr
This mostly comes from Ghal Maraz
-When Vandus is reforged in Sigmarion he takes a peak into the night sky and looks down off the side of Sigmarion and remarks on the sleepy verdant fields below and the people under their protection.
"“To their right loomed the sphere of Mallus, the world remnant. It had swollen in the wake of the Stormhosts’ first victories. The metal was glutted with magic, and the surface glinted with an iridescent sheen. To their left the heavens of Azyr opened. Nowhere in any realm was there a night sky more beautiful; it blazed with stars of all colours and sizes, jewels set upon sumptuous cloths woven from nebulae. Rising through it was the Celestial Stair, a slash of bright metal climbing “impossibly high, its top anchored beneath the High Star Sigendil. A handful of Azyr’s many moons arced gracefully along their heavenly tracks, while the lands of the Celestial Realm slumbered below. Rivers glinted in lazy loops of beaten steel, and towns and villages were picked out by yellow dots of lamplight. Forests were seas of purplish black in the moonlight, and farmland an orderly miniature landscape wrought in silver.”
-Again walking through Sigmarion a host of mortal servants are described as aiding the works of the Stormcast as smiths and forgers. "“They left the quenching chambers and came through obscure ways to the exposed surface of the Sigmarabulum. Once more it churned with industry. The quiet before their assault on Aqshy had been but a pause, and now the magics and machineries there worked hard again, healing and remaking those warriors who had fallen. Sigmar’s wizard-artisans and their helpers hurried about. They paid no attention to the demigods striding among them – such sights were unremarkable in this city of wonders.”
-We see the area around the Azyr Realmgate has been turned into a fortified area with mortals from Azyr again lending aid.
"“Upon the narrow plain by the great Silver River of Anvrok stood the Bright Tor Gate, an ancient edifice open once more by Sigmar’s decree. A camp had sprung up. The ruins about the gate were thick with artisans from the Eternal City, working under the watchful protection of the Lord-Castellants and their warriors, whose keen eyes were ever searching for signs of attack.
Everywhere were the signs of fresh works. Wizard-wrights levitated the tumbled blocks of broken fortifications to stand once more atop one another, their fellows mortaring them into place with molten stone jetting from lances that burned with a magical heat. New life returned to the bones of the dead town. The gate shone with pure energies of untainted magic. Chrono-smiths worked their gentle but potent spells, walking solemnly around and around the gate’s town, and their deep, sonorous chants provided a calming counter note to the clamour of construction. Wherever their sandalled feet passed, the land seemed changed, cleansed.
The realm was healing.”
Aqshy
-Again much of human civilization in the realm has been obliterated by the works of Chaos, overtaken by corruption. The Stormcasts themselves are a gateway into what the setting was before its destruction such as in "Assault on Mandrake Keep"
“My kingdom, Orius thought, as he stalked forward, at the head of his warriors. While he, like many Stormcasts, could but dimly recall the days of his own mortality before his death and Reforging at Sigmar’s hand, Orius remembered enough. He could still recall the heady musk of the Ashen Jungle after rain, and the way the colossal roots of the immense trees had wound through the walls and streets of Uryx. The jungle and the city were one, and its people comfortable in either. He had been comfortable in either. Klaxus had been his home.”
Is that your words or from the book? If from the books?
From the books, the Realmgate War novels and a novella/short story.
"Ghal Maraz" by Guy Haley and Josh Reynolds, and "Assault on Mandrake Keep" by Josh Reynolds
Cataphract wrote: I've found a wealth of background information in the various fluff pieces.
Azyr
This mostly comes from Ghal Maraz
-When Vandus is reforged in Sigmarion he takes a peak into the night sky and looks down off the side of Sigmarion and remarks on the sleepy verdant fields below and the people under their protection.
"“To their right loomed the sphere of Mallus, the world remnant. It had swollen in the wake of the Stormhosts’ first victories. The metal was glutted with magic, and the surface glinted with an iridescent sheen. To their left the heavens of Azyr opened. Nowhere in any realm was there a night sky more beautiful; it blazed with stars of all colours and sizes, jewels set upon sumptuous cloths woven from nebulae. Rising through it was the Celestial Stair, a slash of bright metal climbing “impossibly high, its top anchored beneath the High Star Sigendil. A handful of Azyr’s many moons arced gracefully along their heavenly tracks, while the lands of the Celestial Realm slumbered below. Rivers glinted in lazy loops of beaten steel, and towns and villages were picked out by yellow dots of lamplight. Forests were seas of purplish black in the moonlight, and farmland an orderly miniature landscape wrought in silver.”
-Again walking through Sigmarion a host of mortal servants are described as aiding the works of the Stormcast as smiths and forgers. "“They left the quenching chambers and came through obscure ways to the exposed surface of the Sigmarabulum. Once more it churned with industry. The quiet before their assault on Aqshy had been but a pause, and now the magics and machineries there worked hard again, healing and remaking those warriors who had fallen. Sigmar’s wizard-artisans and their helpers hurried about. They paid no attention to the demigods striding among them – such sights were unremarkable in this city of wonders.”
-We see the area around the Azyr Realmgate has been turned into a fortified area with mortals from Azyr again lending aid.
"“Upon the narrow plain by the great Silver River of Anvrok stood the Bright Tor Gate, an ancient edifice open once more by Sigmar’s decree. A camp had sprung up. The ruins about the gate were thick with artisans from the Eternal City, working under the watchful protection of the Lord-Castellants and their warriors, whose keen eyes were ever searching for signs of attack.
Everywhere were the signs of fresh works. Wizard-wrights levitated the tumbled blocks of broken fortifications to stand once more atop one another, their fellows mortaring them into place with molten stone jetting from lances that burned with a magical heat. New life returned to the bones of the dead town. The gate shone with pure energies of untainted magic. Chrono-smiths worked their gentle but potent spells, walking solemnly around and around the gate’s town, and their deep, sonorous chants provided a calming counter note to the clamour of construction. Wherever their sandalled feet passed, the land seemed changed, cleansed.
The realm was healing.”
Aqshy
-Again much of human civilization in the realm has been obliterated by the works of Chaos, overtaken by corruption. The Stormcasts themselves are a gateway into what the setting was before its destruction such as in "Assault on Mandrake Keep"
“My kingdom, Orius thought, as he stalked forward, at the head of his warriors. While he, like many Stormcasts, could but dimly recall the days of his own mortality before his death and Reforging at Sigmar’s hand, Orius remembered enough. He could still recall the heady musk of the Ashen Jungle after rain, and the way the colossal roots of the immense trees had wound through the walls and streets of Uryx. The jungle and the city were one, and its people comfortable in either. He had been comfortable in either. Klaxus had been his home.”
Is that your words or from the book? If from the books?
From the books, the Realmgate War novels and a novella/short story.
"Ghal Maraz" by Guy Haley and Josh Reynolds, and "Assault on Mandrake Keep" by Josh Reynolds
There's plenty more, too. In particular, Thostos Bladestorm's flashbacks in Storm of Blades provide lots of info.
I think the problem I have is the lack of real understanding behind the motivations of each side.
It feels like they want to fight each other just for the sake of fighting each other and to control realms. But there isn't enough overal background around why they want to control each realm apart from just general expansionist reasons. And that applies to all sides.
I feel like I could just as well root for the Bloodbound as I could for the Sigmarites or the Nurgle folks etc.
And the whole resurrection theme makes it even less consequential. It's like "Well they'll be back tomorrow to fight each other again anyway".
Maybe that's the intent?
That aside, I'm actually having fun playing AOS tabletop.
The realms are infinite aren't they? I have it in my head that they are but can't remember actually reading it. If so even general expansionist reasons seem to go out the window as to motivations as there would theoretically be enough room for everyone to expand as much as they want.
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
It has never been stated. I have some issues with the idea of infinity as it is, as it would mean that, somewhere, in some corner of some realm, the entire Old World, pre-Whoops, exists...
Perhaps we should be talking about the 'observable realms'...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/09 13:13:33
jonolikespie wrote: The realms are infinite aren't they? I have it in my head that they are but can't remember actually reading it. If so even general expansionist reasons seem to go out the window as to motivations as there would theoretically be enough room for everyone to expand as much as they want.
I don't think most species on the planet now comprehend that its space is finite, yet everyone tries to expand. Or past human civilizations... It's basic survival motivation. If there's a great geographic location right next to you, why wouldn't you want to take it?
KiloFiX wrote: I think the problem I have is the lack of real understanding behind the motivations of each side.
It feels like they want to fight each other just for the sake of fighting each other and to control realms. But there isn't enough overal background around why they want to control each realm apart from just general expansionist reasons. And that applies to all sides.
I feel like I could just as well root for the Bloodbound as I could for the Sigmarites or the Nurgle folks etc.
And the whole resurrection theme makes it even less consequential. It's like "Well they'll be back tomorrow to fight each other again anyway".
Maybe that's the intent?
That aside, I'm actually having fun playing AOS tabletop.
To use a bit of a loaded analogy, it's like ISIS vs. the west.
Broadly speaking, the time of Myth, when Sigmar had united the realms and races were mostly peaceful, largely self governed and nice, was 'good'.
Then Chaos came back, subjugating the realms in a kind of 'my way or the highway' which is 'bad'.
So the Realmgate wars are the first part of the 'good' guys trying to liberate the realms from the 'bad' guys. Death & Destruction kinda fit in the middle as their aims vary from realm to realm and opponent to opponent.
Who you *actually* view as good or bad will depend on taste though. Blood reavers, for example, would probably quite like to return to a state where killing is optional, but Blood Warriors overall seem quite keen on the whole endless slaughter thing.
Think of it like the D-day landings into occupied Europe. Some want liberating, some want the liberators to do one, and some just want to be left alone and/or keep their heads down.
As for the resurrection thing, the cracks are already appearing in that. It's not a sure-fire thing, it can be tampered with, and from the novels I've read so far the Stormcast really aren't keen on dying at all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/09 14:46:53
MongooseMatt wrote: I have some issues with the idea of infinity as it is, as it would mean that, somewhere, in some corner of some realm, the entire Old World, pre-Whoops, exists...
That's not how infinity works. Imagine an infinite, flat, unbroken plain. It can proceed infinitely in all directions without every having a hill or valley.
Or imagine the following infinite series of numbers: 1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,...
It can go on forever without ever having a '4' in it.
Just because something is infinite, doesn't mean any possible configuration exists within it.
"That aside, I'm actually having fun playing AOS tabletop.
To use a bit of a loaded analogy, it's like ISIS vs. the west.
Broadly speaking, the time of Myth, when Sigmar had united the realms and races were mostly peaceful, largely self governed and nice, was 'good'.
Then Chaos came back, subjugating the realms in a kind of 'my way or the highway' which is 'bad'.
So the Realmgate wars are the first part of the 'good' guys trying to liberate the realms from the 'bad' guys. Death & Destruction kinda fit in the middle as their aims vary from realm to realm and opponent to opponent.
Who you *actually* view as good or bad will depend on taste though. Blood reavers, for example, would probably quite like to return to a state where killing is optional, but Blood Warriors overall seem quite keen on the whole endless slaughter thing.
Think of it like the D-day landings into occupied Europe. Some want liberating, some want the liberators to do one, and some just want to be left alone and/or keep their heads down.
As for the resurrection thing, the cracks are already appearing in that. It's not a sure-fire thing, it can be tampered with, and from the novels I've read so far the Stormcast really aren't keen on dying at all."
I don't think the general generic good vs generic evil gives an in depth look into they "why they fight" that many people feel AOS left out. The infinite realms and never ending war really ruined AOS for me. For instance if a sigmarine dies he becomes more robotic but never stops existing. You obviously don't like getting killed (it hurts, you have memory problems, ect) but after that it seems like no big deal. So what if your soldiers remember less of their previous lives each time they die as long as they just respawn to fight another day (yes i know there are a few instances where special magic keeps them from coming back but it seems rare and sigmar could just make more). Then you get into the issue if the realms really are infinite with infinite forces fighting over them. If this is true whats the point of any fight/ campaign/ death. You gain nothing from a victory and lose nothing from defeat. To make an analogy i played hockey competitively for 20 years. If instead of having a set season you just played a never ending stream of games it would soon become bland and nobody would watch. Why care if you get 2 points for a win if there is no championship at the end of the season. So what if you kill 100000000000 blood borne if there are an infinite amount more just over the the next floating islands.
edit: my first post sorry i messed up the quote
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/09 16:51:53
That's primarily because Azyr isn't where any of the action is happening - it's the only 'safe house'.
That said, there's plenty of glimpses in the fluff, including references to Orruk warbands in the wilds, mountainous regions where the Gryph hounds live, what you can see if you stand on a balcony in Sigmaron... It's scattered about, but it's there.
RoperPG wrote: That's primarily because Azyr isn't where any of the action is happening - it's the only 'safe house'.
That said, there's plenty of glimpses in the fluff, including references to Orruk warbands in the wilds, mountainous regions where the Gryph hounds live, what you can see if you stand on a balcony in Sigmaron... It's scattered about, but it's there.
Yeah I know but I want to know about some of the normal people there we get plenty of that with the realm of death and descriptions of the landscape. Perhaps when we get the grand alliance order book we may find out?
John goes out and buys the WFB Blood Island starter box. It's his first exposure to the Old World. He also buys the Skaven and High Elf army books because he knows the rules are in there so he needs those.
He reads the little rulebook, then digests the army books cover to cover.
He wonders why there isn't more about this Nagash guy because he seems a pretty big deal.
There are black library novels about him, he has cameos in other army books, etc. etc.
Even if he reads those, he'll then wonder who this Sigmar guy is, etc. etc. John could read solidly for years and still not read everything that was ever written down about the old world.
The old world was crafted over 30 years, and I think people take it for granted exactly how much it was fleshed out in that time, and how much we learn and absorb just by reading bits and pieces. Hell, I've been a GW fan for over 25 years, and I *still* encounter things I'd never heard of before.
That creates expectations on AoS that were just never possible to realise.
If you settle back and accept that you're an observer watching a story unfold, it's a lot easier. The Mortal Realms are a developing setting and timeline, effectively in real-time on releases thus far. The Old World was static and constantly having elements of its history rewritten because it was always 'now', it was possible to try and learn everything about it because it had happened already.
I *liked* the Old World setting, but it was finite - you were effectively always playing a fantasy historical wargame.
AoS is more on the soap-opera level - if you want to see what happens next week, you'll have to the back in.
I get that's not to everyone's tastes, and it wasn't to mine initially. But I get how GW are handling it now, and I like it. Still not sure if I prefer it, but I like it.
One thing about the Old World fiction was that it was "incremental", which is to say, it had been built up in layers with varying degrees of retcon and hand waving. It also was able to lean pretty heavily on existing tropes, both for our world and for fantasy worlds. Example: Once you knew that Bretonnians were in the France equivalent and were copping the Arthurian legend vibe, you had a pretty large amount of information about what Britannia probably looked like. Sure, there were specifics you might not know- the exact names of the regions, the specialties etc, but you had a framework.
To a great extent, we don't have that for AoS. For some, that's a big problem. For me, I'm kind of enjoying discovering and piecing together from all the different hooks and storylines what is going on. And to a great extent, many of the factions in AoS aren't actually aware of what is going on- the Stormcast are just returning, the Fyreslayers are setting out from their holds into regions that are little more than myth and legend anymore.
It reminds me of some of the things I liked about 40K fiction when I was getting started- it's a vast universe- room for throwaway bits and for strands that connect throughout.
“It was in lands of the Chi-An where she finally ran him to ground. There she kissed him deeply as he lay dying, and so stole from him his last, agonized breath.
On a delicate chain at her throat, she keeps it with her to this day.”
I see a lot of these threads come up, and it's always surprising to see how often they dance around what's probably the biggest issue with AoS' background, which is the actual quality of the writing. Sure, it's never bad on a basic technical level, but look at that post of Cataphract's with all those quotes - that is some industrial-grade fantasy product right there, professionally stripped of anything that could be mistaken for human input. It's the sort of remaindered prose that's sold by the pound and recycled into IKEA chair legs. Say what you like of the Old World, with it's shameless conceptual thefts and occasional dips into outright nonsense, but you can't deny that it had a personality and some real zest. AoS is a world conceived by a sales department, brought to life with writing that just couldn't cut it as ad copy, and I'm sure someone, somewhere is just completely confounded as to why that foolproof approach hasn't captured the imagination of gamers worldwide.
There was lousy and generic prose aplenty in the old world, too. It's a common GW problem.
Admittedly, it's more of a problem in AoS than it was, though, yeah. I attribute this not to the setting or fluff itself, but to the presence of the Sigmarines inviting in all the worst and laziest cliches and writing habits associated with space marine fluff in 40k.
Malisteen wrote: There was lousy and generic prose aplenty in the old world, too. It's a common GW problem.
Admittedly, it's more of a problem in AoS than it was, though, yeah. I attribute this not to the setting or fluff itself, but to the presence of the Sigmarines inviting in all the worst and laziest cliches and writing habits associated with space marine fluff in 40k.
Sure, it was there, especially recently, as the same crew that's responsible for AoS took the reigns of the IP division some time ago. The Old World's better parts were always the ones defining the setting, tho. AoS, on the other hand, doesn't have better parts, and I doubt it ever will - Sigmarines or no, the whole setting was created for sales purposes, and seems to have a very heavy style guide purposefully designed to stamp out the human spark that made the Old World so attractive.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/10 06:05:13
The background in the novels is really good and I am enjoying it. Currently reading Storm of Blades from the War Storm novel at the moment. The audio Prisoner of the Black Sun I also enjoyed. Nagash sounded epic and pretty cheesed of at the thought of the Stormcasts mooching about in his realm....
Sword Of Caliban wrote: The background in the novels is really good and I am enjoying it. Currently reading Storm of Blades from the War Storm novel at the moment. The audio Prisoner of the Black Sun I also enjoyed. Nagash sounded epic and pretty cheesed of at the thought of the Stormcasts mooching about in his realm....
Just wait until you get to the end. I think the death realm fluff has been pretty awesome so far. Still the old world has had 30 years of fluff and rectons happen to it AOS has not been out for even fraction of the time honestly I personally like how the fluff is developing so far.
I kind of disagree on that note about the end of the audio drama. Part three was, imo, the weakest of the parts, and really undercuts any sense you might have had of Nagash being a major threat beyond just being a particularly potent brawler.
spoilers:
Spoiler:
He can beat up sigmarines, but his mastery of the dead is so much weaker than Sigmars that he struggles - and fails - to hold onto even a small handful of stormcast souls, and his mastery over his mortarchs is so weak that he was unable to prevent Mannfred from leaving him in the first place, unable to prevent him from returning when he wasn't wanted, unable to kill him when Nagash attempted to strike him down, and unable to prevent him from fleeing again.
This on top of the other fluff in AoS specifically calling out that Nagash wants and needs to regather his mortarchs in order to launch a real counteroffensive against chaos, and here comes one of them begging to be taken back and Nagash refuses him outright?
I was rather let down, honestly. Nagash is basically the magical equivalent of a big dumb bruiser, not especially smart, not particularly manipulative, not able to maintain control even over his own undead legions and their commanders, not able to assert control over the spirits of the dead if Sigmar happens to claim them. He is, frankly, just not on Sigmar's level. At all. And that leaves the 'grand alliance of death' on rather shakey footing in the fluff.
No wonder the entire grand alliance comes out to barely mroe total forces than even some individual faction battletomes in other alliances.
Malisteen wrote: There was lousy and generic prose aplenty in the old world, too. It's a common GW problem.
Admittedly, it's more of a problem in AoS than it was, though, yeah. I attribute this not to the setting or fluff itself, but to the presence of the Sigmarines inviting in all the worst and laziest cliches and writing habits associated with space marine fluff in 40k.
Yup. One of the big problems is the dialogue because no one sounds like a real person. Because there aren't any regular people. Stormcast dialogue might as well be copied and pasted from Uriel Ventris novels. There's a whole cast of characters ranging from Stormcasts to Chaos champions to blood crazed berserkers to demigods to actual gods themselves. And none of them speak or behave like a regular person, which forms a disconnect with the reader in my opinion. There's a reason Gaunt's Ghosts and Gotrek and Felix are amongst the best of the Black Library's works. Because they for the most part are about average Joes.
I'd add in the eisenhorn & ravenor books to that pile of best Black Library works, but again they're focusing on characters who are much closer to 'normal people'.
The last 40k Black Library book that I found to be successful that focused on marines was Talon of Horus. I'm not sure what I could say was the key difference there, other than ADB just being one of the better authors they've got, especially when it comes to Chaos stuff.
There are plenty of "O, my brethren", "thine", "though" etc. and it's ok for a medieval fantasy book. What is not ok is stuff like this:
"The darkness of the night, alloyed to the sulphurous smoke rising from the basin of the flume, was enough to conceal their ranks, but not caustic enough to trouble a Stormcast. The reflected glow of the lava gave their armour a lambent shine, though not bright enough to give away their position." - War Storm
This is one of the funny parts though, there are plenty of other passages that are an impossible yet existing amalgam of boring, difficult to follow, sour to read etc. I may be too demanding, but I swear I approached the 4 book bundle with the minimum possible amount of expectations. I don't think ill of the authors, though, as they probably still don't have enough experience. For me the major drive behind the AoSBL books is giving the reader some battles to re-enact with his models. Even the loudly "applauded" "Beneath the black thumb" is no exception. I still found it pretty unsatisfying, but I guess you get what you pay for and 20 euro for 4 books is pretty standard for this type of literature.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/10 18:23:15
I think the death realm fluff has been pretty awesome so far. Still the old world has had 30 years of fluff and rectons happen to it 
