Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have to say that I think P&M blogs etc. probably help the whole group with more exposure. Sure, it's one person's model that brings the person in, but I can't believe they wouldn't then look at the rest.

It would also mean that jerks like me would simply make the thread my blog

 Jadenim wrote:
I have to say that I think P&M blogs etc. probably help the whole group with more exposure. Sure, it's one person's model that brings the person in, but I can't believe they wouldn't then look at the rest.

This is almost certainly the case, every month I see plenty of the blogs (some I'm already following, some I've looked up after seeing that user's challenge entry, so it works both ways) 'advertising, for want of a better word, the challenges, and I even do it myself when I remember. I don't think it's an advantage really; yes, someone might click through to the vote from my thread or showcase or whatever, but they're still going to look at the other entries rather than just clicking my name and going.

We're getting over 400 voters per month routinely, so in that regard we must be doing something right; if I were to say what that was, it'd be a combination of the simplicity/effort involved (go to page, look at pics, click boxes, leave comment if you can be bothered), the draw that is the quality of entries each month (where else on Dakka do you get to regularly see such an array of talent, styles and models in one place every month?) and the fact that the challenge has become something recognised on the site, thanks to the massive support the community has given it, thus it grows itself.

I think at this point I'm going to rule out the idea of an off-site poll; enough people have said they're not keen on the idea, and having looked into it, I just feel it complicates things more than is necessary; the current system works as far as engaging people and getting numbers in, ad with a few tweaks should be fairer and more rewarding. While I'd love everyone to get some nice detailed feedback on their minis, I do think the people that are willing to do that are already doing it, either in blog/showcase threads by the entrant or in the challenge thread itself. It's not something I want to make mandatory, some people don't have the time or inclination to critique someone's work in detail, and I'd rather they just vote and go than not participate and contribute to the results at all.

So then, we're left with:
Percentages
Raw number of votes
Points system (though this one is definitely more work, so I'm leaning towards one of the other two now).

I enjoy the competition tremendously and i especially love how you've managed to keep it going for a year, even arranging a stand-in host when you were too busy. Also you've been lucky enough to have a couple of users really take to the competition who appear to aid you with it's organization and offer lots of encouraging comments to users posting in the threads.

The only thing that i perhaps do not enjoy is the themes for each month. (Aside from the fact they're often goofy references haha ) . Very general terms work great for things like short story and photography competitions but in this case i don't think they're necessarily always a good fit. You started great with 'Space Marine' then i felt subsequent themes did not enthuse me as much.

This is a Wargames miniature painting and modelling competition (i have thus far not seen any scale replica or decorative sculpture entries) i think it should be a bit more structured, if only because imo you're missing out on a lot of the fun.

Even very simple things like Tracked vehicles, Walkers or weapon team/field piece. Think of the specific scenarios only wargames can offer, like 'assault range', 'The Psychic Powers/Magic phase' or 'Routed!' for more diorama themed months. Or one i'd love to see ' 'Legal' Squad/deployment', this would have the side affect of entrants maybe getting something cool finished for their army, it could even have a WYSIWYG rule haha.

I don't really have anything to add in terms of vote fiddling, but two things that have been bugging me a little are:

a) Taking good pictures.

There is not much that can be done from a contest perspective in this regard since I imagine giving everyone who enters a light box and a nice new camera being out of the equation; maybe you could include a little how-to or 'tips' section that people can read and learn about how to take better miniature photos, there are a large number of tutorials in the 'tutorials' section about this topic, that might be useful to give people a gentle kick towards reading.
Especially since most people have phones that can take perfectly fine photos just they have crappy lighting so the colour balance goes out the window, exposure time increases and more motion blur seeps in.

Or some sort of standardisation, in terms of image size, quality or layout. Some people have a fairly unfair advantage over others in terms of presentation, simply because they have the know how and tools to touch up their images and present them really well. This is something I myself could do and, with the exception of stitching images together, I don't bother with because I don't see much point.

I'm more in favour of the former over the latter since I don't think there is anything you can really do about this otherwise people will always vote for what looks best over all and presentation is so important. Yes my photos suck.

b) This is a PAINTING contest (!?!?).

Let me start by saying I am a massive hypocrite; whilst it's nice that people are making ever more elaborate conversions and dioramas for these contests a month is quite a short time for some people and I am concerned people are starting to feel as though they "have" to convert something to enter and that might affect whether they enter or even finish in time, as well as the voting being affected by people voting for the conversion over the painting. However if this is not your intention with this contest then feel free to ignore this point.

Would it be possible to move the emphasis more towards the painting aspect, and maybe suggestions that people try a new technique and learn though pushing themselves further to become better painters.

I really don't want to sound as though I'm saying "No conversions" especially since all of the models that I've entered have been heavily converted but they are ones that I made months and sometimes years in the past, and given my backlog of unpainted miniatures I could go on like this for sometime yet. The great thing about this string of contests is that I'm actually getting things finished.

Edit: Otherwise I'm glad this contest has gone so well and been so popular, nicely done para (with a bit of help from TP^DC, Buttery thank you both).

@Perkustin: The reason for the themes being how they are is to give people as many options as possible when it comes to entering, but at the same time, give them something to channel their efforts towards rather than just pick any old mini out of the box and paint that up. It provides a measuring stick when it comes to voting (often, very thematic entries have climbed above stuff that is better painted but only tangentially relates to the theme) and also means that if a theme came up and someone did want to enter a suitable scale model or bust or whatever (we've had model ships in the past, I think someone is doing a large-scale Dwarf bust this month as well) then the options are there. A lot of painters on here don't actually play any games, and through no fault of their own, wouldn't know where to start if the theme was 'legal unit' or similar (and with the range of games and models involved, it'd be a headache for me to check everything was legal)

If you look back over the themes, a lot of them do correlate to specific parts of an army, but just give a little more breathing room. For example, we've had Fast and Furious, which is basically saying 'paint a Fast Attack unit' but just broadening the appeal and scope a little more. Same for the last round, Up Close and Personal, that's geared towards CC models but there is room for other interpretations. I think from following the entrant's blogs and such, those that are building to armies manage to find something both useful to them and suitable to the theme, while those that aren't in the army-building mindset or are looking for a break from 'Yet Another Troops Model' find the themes a good excuse to do something different (see some of the really thematic entries we've had, like Kustomer D or Januine's dioramas, or Midget Gems' theme Ork conversions).

I can see where you're coming from, but to my mind this is a miniatures painting competition, not specifically a wargaming one, so if someone wanted to enter a scale aircraft or large-scale mini or terrain piece or whatever, I would have no inclination to stop them so long as it fitted the theme.

Hope that explains where I'm coming from a bit, I certainly see your point, we're just coming at it from different angles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 OneManNoodles wrote:
I don't really have anything to add in terms of vote fiddling, but two things that have been bugging me a little are:

a) Taking good pictures

Or some sort of standardisation, in terms of image size, quality or layout. Some people have a fairly unfair advantage over others in terms of presentation, simply because they have the know how and tools to touch up their images and present them really well. This is something I myself could do and, with the exception of stitching images together, I don't bother with because I don't see much point.

This is a tricky one. I can't force people to take good pictures, or read tutorials, and I guess a lot of people just don't have the time or ability to do so, but I definitely see where you're coming from. It's not something I really consider to be a 'problem' with the format, though it would be nice to have everyone take really good pics and get a thoroughly level playing field (although that's basically never going to happen). Really, this one is out of my control, but if anyone has any good links to tutorials for photography I am definitely happy to include them in the OPs of the challenge threads going forward; it's no trouble on my part, and might help some folks out, so I'm all for it. Post here or PM me some links and I'll look into it.

b) This is a PAINTING contest (!?!?).

Let me start by saying I am a massive hypocrite; whilst it's nice that people are making ever more elaborate conversions and dioramas for these contests a month is quite a short time for some people and I am concerned people are starting to feel as though they "have" to convert something to enter and that might affect whether they enter or even finish in time, as well as the voting being affected by people voting for the conversion over the painting. However if this is not your intention with this contest then feel free to ignore this point.

Would it be possible to move the emphasis more towards the painting aspect, and maybe suggestions that people try a new technique and learn though pushing themselves further to become better painters.

I really don't want to sound as though I'm saying "No conversions" especially since all of the models that I've entered have been heavily converted but they are ones that I made months and sometimes years in the past, and given my backlog of unpainted miniatures I could go on like this for sometime yet. The great thing about this string of contests is that I'm actually getting things finished.

This one is again something that's kind of beyond my ability to do anything else; if there is a shift towards conversions, then it's not something that's come from me, but from the entrants. Personally, I don't see it as a problem; this is the 'Painting and Modelling' sub-forum after all, and the only reason it doesn't say that in the challenge titles is because there's not enough space in the box. The other thing to bear in mind is that if someone is looking to strut their stuff as a high-calibre painter online then there are dozens of contents out there that might be more fruitful to enter than this one, ones with prize support and judging panels and more stringent entry requirements and such!

That's not to say I'm encouraging great painters not to enter, it's always good to see some really high quality stuff in the voting threads that's simply above and beyond what most people are producing, and typically that does get rewarded in the vote. Though as I mentioned above in reply to Perkustin, if models that aren't quite as well painted are beating ones that are stunning, it's about the theme, and that's one of the things the theme is for, to emphasise creativity and concept as much as pure brush-fu.

I suppose the main thing is that while these contests aren't for everyone, I'd like them to be, and that means I have to try and find some middle ground between 'everyone gets a medal just for turning up' and 'not good enough, go home'. So if someone wants to try and compete with 'better' painters via converting something more suitable for theme, then I want to make sure they can push themselves to do that, but equally, I agree that painting is a large element of the contest, and that's often something that does win out in the polls.

It's a tough one to be sure, and just in this thread you can see there are a lot of people who'd like to see it go one way or the other. The thing to bear in mind is that if you want a serious painting competition, there are plenty out there, this one is purely a bit of fun, to motivate and inspire, and as much as an arguement could be made that saying that is just a cop-out, that's really how it is, I don't want the challenge to ever get too far away from the idea and community that inspired it. Thanks for your thoughts, definitely something to mull over a little more.

Space marine was an example of a good theme for me, there's plenty of room for interpretation yet it is quite nice and focused, people could've taken it way off tangent but didn't, the obvious interpretation left an ocean of scope for some great entries. Perhaps the only unfortunate side of it is that it excludes fantasy miniatures.

Perhaps what i'm trying to say is maybe just consider themes that have an obvious entry point in wargaming with room for creativity, like Space Marine. That way you don't need to be a jerk yelling 'NOT ELIGIBLE! DISQUALIFIED!' but can nudge it in a more focused direction.

I don't play but i still think 'Legal Squad/Deployment' would be a ton of fun. As i have mentioned you have other users who are very active in the threads, you wouldn't need to go through all the codexes/sourcebooks yourself.

Also, it's an honours system really, you are quite lenient with proof pictures for example, which i'm 100% okay with btw. Anyway, I doubt anyone would bother chucking in an extra melta bomb to win 1st place in a P & M compo

Think of all the fun elements, Left-field counts-as, sub-optimal formations, Legacy units no-longer supported by current editions, brownie points for being creative with the rules.

Please, please, please consider it for a round of votes. If the people don't want it then they won't vote, then again to paraphrase Henry Ford, if i'd asked the people what they wanted, they'd have said faster horses!'

, this one is purely a bit of fun, to motivate and inspire

This kinda gets back to 101 for me. Whilst there have been some great ideas and opinions in this thread, you always have to go back to basics and ask "what is our goal here / what are we trying to achieve".

If it is as above - to be fun, motivate and inspire, then leaving things as is I feel is the best option.
We've seen volume of entries, interest and feedback go up steadily.
Mainly imho because its a fun "no pressure", "do your best" thread.
Bringing in harder scoring, sub categories, additional scores etc etc can only potentially damage the challenge and turn people off it.

Changing it to any degree I feel might lose all that. Perhaps a small change to the painting scores but even then.

@Perkustin: Only thing is that those are already things that everyone can do within the current themes if they want to, to me it seems more a restriction than a theme in and of itself.

@Ratius: my thoughts exactly, any changes will simply be to make sure people get the recognition they deserve rather than to make things more technical or stringent.

any changes will simply be to make sure people get the recognition they deserve

I feel that is down the community. I've given votes to entries that werent perhaps that good but after a few days I saw they had 0.
Thats dishearteneing. The time I entered I got like 5 votes and was genuinely chuffed.
I think as a community if we can give veryone at least a few votes and make sure those that arent "as good" get a comment if possile. Even if its "nice job!".
That is much harder to do with 30+ entries a month but if everyone has a real interest in the challenge continuing and enjoys it, it shouldnt be too hard.

Other recogition you could try as the Moderator is to pick out some honourable mention (if time feasible)
First time entrant award
"Wooden spoon" - that might seem mean but its more a tongue in cheek thing and hopefully people see it as that
Whackiest idea
"Rule of Cool"

These would not score points - they would simply be comments (in a different) color by you as the Moderator in the awards thread.

I think the "no conversions" idea is probably better for one of the monthly challenges than a continuous rule. Call it "straight outta the box".

Giving it some thought what i believe to be the core problem is a homogeneity in the entries month in month out, the list of entries for one month look similar to the entries the next. Very hard to control but i believe a little more focus is required to engender an actual Theme in entries every month.

This isn't even a problem per se, it's just something that certainly saps some of my enthusiasm.

A cynical part of me thinks that the very general themes also allow people to just cram in their P & M project du jour. Looking at this thread there are several users who state this as their main issue with the competitions thus far actually.

On a side note perhaps find a photo collage app or something to display multiple entries in one photo, in addition to the spoiler tags? That way people can see the thumbnail, think 'Dayum! I need a closer look!' or 'Hmm, need a closer look at that one' then look at the spoiler tags.

@Ratius

I like the idea of honourable mentions, maybe the entries that got a lot of buzz in the WIP thread or indeed 'honourable mentions' in the vote thread. I think Wooden spoon is actually quite harsh, i don't believe i got any votes for my entry and i kind of wanted to slink off back to the darkness haha.

If you want some kind of opposite of a backhanded complement (open palmed critique?) maybe something about the poor quality of the photograph? This can plague many entries and it can be a bit of boon if an entrant hears, it's not that your painting is bad it's just i couldn't really judge it.

I think part of the sameness of entries is what people have on their bench. Not everyone has the budget or time to go out and buy something new, just to enter. Having loose themes that let people enter projects they have, will actually get them to work on those projects. If a theme gets too restrictive, I think we’d see people just sit the month out. I’ve entered a few odds and ends, but mostly just marines and eldar, as those are my two main projects. But I did sneak a nurgle champ and an oni in there. I’m all for pushing people out of their comfort zone and having them paint new things, but I don’t want to push them so hard they sit one out.

 Jadenim wrote:
I think the "no conversions" idea is probably better for one of the monthly challenges than a continuous rule. Call it "straight outta the box".

"No conversions" was the one thing I was not suggesting, I was trying to categorically state that is the one thing I was not saying, especially since it would make it really difficult to continue having themes for each month and could make the competition stale pretty quick, it sounds fine as a monthly challenge however.

 Paradigm wrote:


This is a tricky one. I can't force people to take good pictures, or read tutorials, and I guess a lot of people just don't have the time or ability to do so, but I definitely see where you're coming from. It's not something I really consider to be a 'problem' with the format, though it would be nice to have everyone take really good pics and get a thoroughly level playing field (although that's basically never going to happen). Really, this one is out of my control, but if anyone has any good links to tutorials for photography I am definitely happy to include them in the OPs of the challenge threads going forward; it's no trouble on my part, and might help some folks out, so I'm all for it. Post here or PM me some links and I'll look into it.

Something to level the playing field was more something that I was getting at, just a little blurb saying "Whilst there are no real restrictions on how you lay out your images please stick to the 5 image limit ...[as you have it in the rules]... and it is recommended that you take images of your final entry in a well lit environment with a neutral background [blah blah] to help people see your entry clearly, for more detailed help and information, here are a selection of useful tutorials to help you achieve this [links]"

Also dont' forget that the more people who adopt taking better pictures, the more will then catch on and it'll spread, at least I'd like to think so.

 Paradigm wrote:

That's not to say I'm encouraging great painters not to enter, it's always good to see some really high quality stuff in the voting threads that's simply above and beyond what most people are producing, and typically that does get rewarded in the vote. Though as I mentioned above in reply to Perkustin, if models that aren't quite as well painted are beating ones that are stunning, it's about the theme, and that's one of the things the theme is for, to emphasise creativity and concept as much as pure brush-fu.

Oh no I'm defiantly not challenging the themes; I'm in full support of you there and think that with some of them quite a lot of the time conversions and small diorama will be needed. The themes keep it interesting, if you keep them varied enough the competition won't be for everyone as maybe they won't have something to enter that month, and it will also force others to be more creative in adapting or making something that can fits the theme and within the time-scale. The themes themselves I'm pretty happy with so far, allowing people to suggest and vote for themes is probably the best way to go about it, then leave them open to interpretation.

I've changed my mind a little on the painting side as the possible impact on themes slipped my mind a little, there are something you can do to impact what people enter but there isn't really a way to change how people vote, you can advice to vote with certain considerations but I get the feeling (maybe just my pessimism against humanity seeping in here) that some will ignore much of what you write and simply look at the pictures and vote for those they think are the best regardless of theme.

Thus far I think you've stuck to the middle ground pretty well as you say the monthly time limit and lack of prizes will keep some away (don't change these). For someone who is not such a great modeller just entering this contest every month with one or more models maybe in a little diorama is great practice and a chance to learn and try new things is a great way for people to push their skills and develop creativity.

I think Wooden spoon is actually quite harsh, i don't believe i got any votes for my entry and i kind of wanted to slink off back to the darkness haha.

Yeah maybe not the best idea.

 Paradigm wrote:

@Ratius: my thoughts exactly, any changes will simply be to make sure people get the recognition they deserve rather than to make things more technical or stringent.

What about a year in review showcase for each entrant? Even if they list it themselves. It'd be good to see progress, and get good recognition for lots of folks.

There has been quite a lot said since I checked in, so from memory of what I've read I have a couple of comments:
1 - I don't play (:(), but try to make legal units just in case one day I ever do. I therefore view the minis I paint as part of a story that is continually playing out in my head. There are interactions and moments of crisis that I play out with each mini or set of the same. Therefore I love chopping the little blighters up and making a mini that no-one else might have and know that I have the story in my head that fits that moment. My conversions are minor, but I get a huge kick out of it. I have a Dark Angels Command Squad I still want to make with a heavily converted Brother Bethor. The story is in my head and dying to make it out to the real world. To me, that is part of the fun especially because I don't paint anywhere near as much as I would like and therefore the thought of only doing "out of the box" is a bit dull when I really want to spend my precious time painting something unique. I do like the idea of having one month that is purely "out of the box" though. It will force me back to basic painting only with no messing about with GS!!!

2 - Themes! This is pretty contentious I see. I have to say that there have been a couple of months where so have gone "meh!" And have been unable to think of anything to do..... For the first 24 hours. Then inspiration hits. The clone one recently touted had me stumped because it didn't fit with anything I wanted to do right now (I planned to build a Nephilim Jetfighter) and I got in a bit of a grump when it was winning. Then I realised I had nearly a full squad of Necron Warriors I would love to get done and got all excited. The themes are so fluid it defies belief, that's what's so great. I would caution all of you über-painters that I definitely do not vote for you if your entry is unrelated to the theme and I also have excluded people from having a vote because I am bored of the monotony of the same stuff being dished out each month. If I start thinking "well you can paint good, but you don't seem to have an ounce of imagination" then you've lost me. Sorry all, but that's the way it is, I bust a gut coming up with something I want to paint to justify a theme after all.

3 - If people don't like themes they won't enter. Is that a problem really?

4 - I do think one or two special categories could be created to commend stuff, but if we do too many we are back to the previous discussion about what's the whole point in voting and wasn't this all meant to be a bit of fun. My opinion on the categories would be a few extra points for first entry - taking the plunge is hard. Be warned I have a complete record of everyone who has ever completed an entry, no taking the mick on this one please. My other thought would be to give an extra point to the entry that is closest to theme out of those NOT in the top 10. This would be an absolute pain to police though and I don't think it is fair to expect Paradign to keep making that call each month. I have no other suggestions for this because I think everything else just makes it too complicated.

Final word, sorry if people take this the wrong way, but Paradigm started this thread to autopsy the last 11 months of the challenges. I think we need to regain focus and answer the questions he has reiterated above it would be useful to get to a resolution on these points. Is it fair to say that we have a general discussion until the end of tomorrow and then a more focused agreement made on key points for a few days after that? (These dates are open to negotiation, it's just we need to focus a little more on what the goal of the thread was - honing down the whole experience of the challenges for the better).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kb_lock wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

@Ratius: my thoughts exactly, any changes will simply be to make sure people get the recognition they deserve rather than to make things more technical or stringent.

What about a year in review showcase for each entrant? Even if they list it themselves. It'd be good to see progress, and get good recognition for lots of folks.

That's a great idea and everyone should do this - Para does it each January and it's great to see the changes. It would have to be a participant-led endeavour though.

Regarding a review of the year's progress, one thing I definitely intend to to is create a thread (once this month's results are in) with the top 3 from each month in one place, to both serve as a Hall of Fame and give people a chance to vote on their absolute favourite entry of the year (there would be no points for this, it's purely for fun. One user, one vote). In that thread, I will definitely encourage people to post their own entries from the previous year, for posterity's sake and to see the progression that I imagine will be inspiring.

As far as extra categories chosen by me as the organiser and all that go, I'm basically going to say a flat no there, for several reasons. One is that when voting, I already do look out for most improved or most creative or most thematic entries, they get recognised by getting my vote and a comment. Second, and kind of leading on from that, is that frankly my opinion means no more than anyone else's, and there are regularly several entrants each month that would be far more qualified to 'judge' other people's work, I am certainly not, and as I mentioned a while back when it was suggested we have a panel of judges, I personally wouldn't feel right doing that.

A vote from me is worth the same as a vote from anyone else, same goes for comments and feedback in the threads, so if people want to see entrants get feedback, or recognised in specific categories, then it's down to you to do that (and a lot of people do, your efforts there are most appreciated!) If you think Dakka User A has entered the most thematic piece, leave a comment and tell him; it means as much from you as it does from me! Particularly as it's highly subjective, and what one person thinks is a brilliant and creative interpretation the theme, someone else might think is completely unrelated to it, or not really representative of how they view it. Same goes for most effort or greatest improvement; I follow a lot of blogs and see a lot of the progress people make, and I try and give a shout out there whenever I think of it, but obviously I don't follow everything, so if you see someone you know has improved over a few challenges, mention it to them!

Regarding points, if we move to a percentage or vote-based system (Which seems likely at the moment), there would be no extra points of any kind, what you get is what you get. If you're rewarding people in direct proportion to the support their entry has received, then it seems both unfair and unnecessary to then add more points on top of that.

I don't mind the more general discussion, all of this feedback, whether it relates to the things I put forward at the start or not, is valuable to me, but TP is right, the goal of this thread is to hammer out the kinks in the system. Things like suggesting individual themes or drastic changes are welcome, of course, but in general, I'm looking for small changes to a system that thus far has worked, not to restructure the whole thing in its entirety.

 Paradigm wrote:
Regarding a review of the year's progress, one thing I definitely intend to to is create a thread (once this month's results are in) with the top 3 from each month in one place, to both serve as a Hall of Fame and give people a chance to vote on their absolute favourite entry of the year (there would be no points for this, it's purely for fun. One user, one vote). In that thread, I will definitely encourage people to post their own entries from the previous year, for posterity's sake and to see the progression that I imagine will be inspiring.

Cool.

As far as extra categories chosen by me as the organiser and all that go, I'm basically going to say a flat no there

Seconded because you justified why so well

Regarding points, if we move to a percentage or vote-based system (Which seems likely at the moment), there would be no extra points of any kind, what you get is what you get. If you're rewarding people in direct proportion to the support their entry has received, then it seems both unfair and unnecessary to then add more points on top of that.

ALL RIGHT SMART ! Seriously though, I completely forgot that I was effectively buggaring up my own suggestion about the move towards votes only. Cheers bud for that

I know i am still new, but here it is.
I have seen the submitions thus far and not all are truly according to the topic, i understand that it is up to each individual to interpret it as they want, a bonus to the best unterpreted model.
Secondly i would like to add is that the editing of the photo should get some type if reward, i know not everybody is teck savvy but a little bit of effort goes a long way , sometimes its not the beT painted model that wins, its the best presented.
And tgen it is rhe beat painted model.
So there can be 3 first places, points awarded is not my problem.
Just maybe a couple of catagories. Dont know if that helps. Just my thoughts.
P.s
This comp rocks and i cant wait for the next round to start.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Was just checking some tunes, if anybody does not like what paradigm decides on then boohhooooo to you, go get yourself your own comp and be a dictator. This is not about winning , this is about getting a bit of oomph in your ass to do a bit better than you would usually do.

Having discussed it with TP^DC, I think we've reached a conclusion on the scoring methods going forward. We will be using a simple Percentage=Points method, for the following reasons:

- Everyone gets rewarded in proportion with the votes they receive. Thus, the front-runners will still get the most points, but the many entrants that end up in the middle of the scoreboard will still climb the ranks with some persistence.

- Likewise, it's fairer than entrants 1-3 getting extra points and entrants 4-44 all getting the same. Now, if you're just outside the top 3, you'll still get points in proportion with that.

- The reason we went for percentages over raw votes is that there will thus be 100 points in total on offer each month. With raw votes, the number could easily fluctuate +/-100 or more between months, leading to some months being 'worth' more than others as far as the League goes, which is something we wanted to avoid.

- The percentage system makes things much easier in terms of managing the League. Ties in points will still be decided (as before) first by highest individual placing and then by numbers of challenges entered. If there's still a a tie after that,

Each month, I'll still pick out the top 3 entrants (based on votes) as winners, but their League points will simply be in proportion to the percentage score, there won't be any extra points.

Hope you guys are happy with this and can see why we've reached this decision. Please do keep the feedback on any other areas coming!

I think that's a great idea Para, and if it makes things easier for you and TD^DC then that's a very good reason all on its own! You guys do a great job keeping this going and while I can't join in much at the mo I hope to return in the near future. Over the last year I've painted more models, to an increasing standard (hopefully), than I've done in ages. The whole competition is an inspiration in defeating the grey plastic and you guys should be congratulated on its success.

@Inflatable Love Badger - thanks for you support, but please don't get the wrong idea. Paradigm does all the work, I try and keep the League table up to date (not as regularly as I like) and that's about it. Any congratulations goes to the big man please. I'll just sit and number crunch in the background as I deserve and prefer

 Paradigm wrote:

I think from following the entrant's blogs and such, those that are building to armies manage to find something both useful to them and suitable to the theme, while those that aren't in the army-building mindset or are looking for a break from 'Yet Another Troops Model' find the themes a good excuse to do something different (see some of the really thematic entries we've had, like Kustomer D or Januine's dioramas, or Midget Gems' theme Ork conversions)

Whoo I got a mention, when the personal life settles down there will be more strange and interesting creations from me

Anyway my 2 cents

So I've been thinking this over and watching the tread for the last few days. Its good we have a chance to provide feedback, it could be opening a can of worms for some areas. I hope people aren't upset if their ideas don't get implemented.
For your original posts points.
Scoring
I'm not in it for the points, though I must say I was ecstatic when I got more than 1. The best painter should always win, something I have accepted because it isn't me. I'm sure there could be a fairer way for distributing points since a couple of times its been really close for 3rd with only 1 or 2 votes in it, seemed a shame that the 4th place didn't get anything extra, like you said that is purely down to the number of entries that where expected. There will always be someone that just misses out.

The points for number of votes has been suggested and also percentages (I've allocated 1 point per percent). Thought I would do a quick add up so you could see what it would look like and how it might change things. Here is the Top 10 on TP^DCs list and Aldo since he is out of top 10 but has entered quite a few comps to show how the gap between top and lower ranks may change.



From what I can see the total number and total percentage of votes leans more towards those that constantly enter and produce good work get votes but that don't always rank in the top 3 rather than those that occasionally rank in top 3.

If scoring was to change my thoughts are to either add more scoring positions and decrease the point gap between them, e.g 1st = 15, 2nd = 12, 3rd = 9, 4th = 7, 5th = 5, 6th = 4, 7th = 3, 8th = 2 or go with percentages since is probably fairer at the end of the year it will be a percent of the total number of votes cast were as total votes can change a fair bit e.g. Oct = Total Votes : 473, Sept = Total Votes : 411, Dec = Total Votes : 451

Rules
There aren't really many tbh, I've only seen a few occasions when someone couldn't enter a model, normal due to it being more than base coated.
The few there are and the flexibility of how they are applied is good and makes people not take it too seriously but stops unfairness


Format
I like that its all on Dakka in one place. I have no knowledge for straw polls or anything else so can't really comment on if they would be better or how they might work.

I would love an end of year award ceremony if its not already in the pipeline (The Dakkies?) with maybe a dozen categories. So standard ones like Most Votes, Most improved, but also maybe ones like best interpretation of a theme, best injury/accident/mistake, Most Dakka, Coolest etc. guess we would need a group to agree a short list and then put it to a vote. The winner winning a title for the next year.

My major point is really to thank you, TP^DC, BC and everyone that has put your time into entering and organising the competition. Since I feel very much part of it now if you ever need any help or an extra person to collate things since its rapidly expanding or think that you might need someone to help on a busy month I'm more than happy to put my time in as well (RL permitting).

Edit, damn took me a few hours to do this and missed the extra posts where you had decided on Percentages.

@Midget - Bloody Hell mate, you put a lot of effort in for "just seeing what would happen"!!! Credit where credit's due.

very constructive

First of all, I'd just like to give a huge thank-you to everyone who runs and helps run the contest. These things are a lot of work to keep going, and it's not a small amount of time to sacrifice.

In terms of the contest rules, format and all that, I'm happy with whatever the consensus is I mean, these are models I'm going to paint anyways. It's just fun and positive to look at everyone's work.

For the recordkeeping... frankly, I think of this as something most of us do for kicks, so the recordkeeping part of it should reflect that -- I don't think it makes sense to have something that just takes too much work to maintain. The current stats look like something Nate Silver put together for five-thirty-eight to predict the Superbowl. (he's a stats junkie, and a very good one).

Possibly, to keep things simpler, and to allow new people a chance to bump up on the list, reset it yearly or so? That would also mean that from one "season" to the next, you don't need to record the same information (or as much). I don't think you need to worry about people with no votes. I'm not sure that's ever happened.

Yearly resets have always been the plan, each League will run for 12 rounds then everyone goes back to 0 every March.

 TP^DC Deputy Manager wrote:
@Midget - Bloody Hell mate, you put a lot of effort in for "just seeing what would happen"!!! Credit where credit's due.

very constructive

Thanks DC, I hoped it would be of some use and I was quite interested in how it might change things, also gave me a little taste of what you have to do but on a much larger scale

All good here too. Gonna really attempt to get every month done

Late to the party, but I just had to share this for consideration: you can also say "scores" are recorded for like every month, or every three months. Just in case you find out the number of entries decreases because of the scoring system, when it "scares" members from participating in this wonderful event.
So, a year of DUPC's could be divided like this:

Month 1: for fun
Month 2: for fun + points
Month 3: for fun
Month 4 for fun + points
etc.

Or:

Month 1: for fun
Month 2: for fun
Month 3: for fun + points
Month 4: for fun
Month 5: for fun
Month 6 for fun + points
etc.

Just my two cents.