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Is there a relationship between the abilities of Bot Handler and Bot Protocols and command points? Is it necessary for the Journey Bot Handler (or apprentice) to spend command points in order to use the Bot Protocols?

FortheEmperor! wrote:
Is there a relationship between the abilities of Bot Handler and Bot Protocols and command points? Is it necessary for the Journey Bot Handler (or apprentice) to spend command points in order to use the Bot Protocols?

In order for a unit's Bot Protocols to be enabled, that unit must have been issued an order that turn by a Bot Handler. A Bot Handler must spend at least one command point on the unit to issue it an order, and they are even allowed to spend a command point on a unit that has no STs (so as to be able to enable their Bot Protocols). In a few cases (namely just 'Overdrive'), the amount of command points spent actually determines the severity of the unit's Bot Protocols.

So in short, yes, a bot handler must spend at least one command point to enable a unit's Bot Protocols. And remember that a character cannot issue an order to more units than its Command Value per turn. So a Journeyman Bot Handler can issue orders on up to 2 units per turn and an Apprentice Bot Handler can only issue an order to his own unit.

Wonderful! Thanks!!

Good question. Speaking of Overdrive, why on Earth would you trade the Scarecrow's Rapid Fire or the Hunter's Lock on for overdrive? It's a cool and fluffy ability for Rhino mechs but they have access to 60" guns with great abilities that don't require you to spend four command points to make use of. Is there something I'm missing?

You can bring stuff in range now instead of next turn, that can be crucial I imagine (e.g. allowing you to grab/contest an objective or position the unit for use of spray and other [short ranged] weapons)

 bocatt wrote:
Good question. Speaking of Overdrive, why on Earth would you trade the Scarecrow's Rapid Fire or the Hunter's Lock on for overdrive? It's a cool and fluffy ability for Rhino mechs but they have access to 60" guns with great abilities that don't require you to spend four command points to make use of. Is there something I'm missing?

There are two main reasons why one might consider taking 'Overdrive':

1) It is considerably cheaper than the standard Bot Protocol the Scarecrow/Hunter come with, so if you're trying to fit more models into your force, that's one way you can do it.

2) If you are taking a Hunter/Scarecrow designed to fire at close range (or even CQ fighting in the case of a Hunter), then besides being a cheaper alternative, it some cases it can allow you to get your Hunter/Scarecrow within short range while performing an advance and fire (making a single move). So for a Scarecrow, you'd probably only consider it if taking a cheap 'burnbot' style variant (with its Railrifle removed). Similarly, if you're taking a Hunter with 2 Flakk Cannons to be able to destroy enemy units at close range, then having just a few extra inches of movement when you need it can make all the difference.

To give you a specific example of that second scenario...Flakk Cannons fired at short range are extremely deadly, but obviously you need to get your Hunter within 6" of the enemy unit to do so. Since Hunters have a 5" move, +D3" for open ground, they have a combined 12-15" threat range to make this attack (the enemy unit is going to need to be within 12-15" of them to pull this off). With Overdrive, all of a sudden you can increase that threat range to 17-20"...which is obviously nothing to scoff at, and can be quite surprising for opponents who aren't used to seeing a Hunter move that way.

yeah,
If I use a bot handler to remove 1 ST from a robot, do I have to spend another CP to activate the protocols?
Or is that free?

Panic...

As long as you issue an order (expend 1+ CPs), their bot protocols are activated. It does not cost anything extra to do so.

Can you issue the same command to a unit from multiple Bot Handlers? I'm thinking about the Overdrive protocol here, otherwise you're basically limited to +2 MV. And is it actually a rule that the Apprentice Bot Handler can only issue orders to his own unit?

Looks like you can. The protocol being enabled is just an on/off state, so you can't enable more than once at a time, but Overdrive specifically says it counts all command points expended by all bot handler models ordering that unit around in that turn. Now, technically, there would need to be STs on the unit for multiple bot handlers to be allowed to order it around, because as I see it you can only enable the protocols once, which the rule specifically says you can do on a unit without STs, any other orders would have to remove STs if they're to be allowed. On the other hand, the Overdrive rule seems to imply you may spend command points just to up the MV, even if there are no STs to remove. Doesn't actually say so though. Maybe yakface can clarify. Another point: you're not actually limited to max. +2 just because no models have a higher command value than 2. You can not issue more orders than your command value, but for any given order you can spend as many command points as you have on the command model (which is limited by its WP, being 4 on the Journeyman).

On the Apprentice: as he has command (0), he can only issue an order to his own unit (p. 81 last sentence).

angryboy2k wrote:
Can you issue the same command to a unit from multiple Bot Handlers? I'm thinking about the Overdrive protocol here, otherwise you're basically limited to +2 MV. And is it actually a rule that the Apprentice Bot Handler can only issue orders to his own unit?

IIRC Command [0] = "can only issue commands to the unit that the model is included in. As per the Command special rule entry. As for "multiple commands" in the case of overdrive, I don't believe there is a limit on how many command tokens can be issued to a single unit in one command. Tokens can be assigned to Command models up to their WP, not their Command value. Command value denotes how many tokens they contribute to the pool, and how many units a model can command in a turn, which is why Command [0] units can only command their own units. So for overdrive: a Journeyman Bot Handler has a WP of 4, in the Command phase he can be assigned up to 4 tokens after bidding for reinforcements has been completed. Then, when a model within his command range (18" or 24" with command micro drones) activates, before the Discipline check is made, the Bot Handler may Command the unit and expend all four tokens to remove an equal number of suppression tokens. A model with Bot Protocols: Overdrive would then benefit from an increase to its MOV stat equal to the number of command tokens expended (and suppression tokens removed), meaning if the maximum amount of tokens were spent, it would move an additional 4" on a single move (Advance and Fire action) or an additional 8" on a double move (Dash).

Ninja'd

Great answers, guys - and thanks for the rulebook reference to clarify.

This section clarifies the point about multiple bot handlers contributing command points (they can within the restriction at the end):

Rulebook p.81
There is no limit to the number of command models that
can issue an order simultaneously onto the same unit.
However, a command model cannot issue an order to a unit
containing another command model with an equal or higher
WP characteristic.

Yeah, the question still remains if a model can order a unit that has no STs on it and whose bot protocols are already enabled for the sole purpose of upping the extra MV with Overdrive, I don't think that's answered explicitly in the rules.

 Sgt. Oddball wrote:
Yeah, the question still remains if a model can order a unit that has no STs on it and whose bot protocols are already enabled for the sole purpose of upping the extra MV with Overdrive, I don't think that's answered explicitly in the rules.

All orders are issued simultaneously (when the unit is activated, but before it takes its activation discipline check, or in the case of a unit with no STs, when it is activated).

So yes, multiple command models can issue an order to a single unit, and in the case of Bot Handlers, they are allowed to issue an order even onto a unit that has no STs.

The way it would work in practice is that you'd activate the bot unit, then you'd have any command models you wanted issue orders to that unit (expend their CPs) and then the unit would automatically pass its activation discipline check (as it has no STs) and its bot protocols would also be enabled.