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So I played a guy who ran Knights then a iron hands detachment. The iron hands had a tech marine with servo. And three serviitors. He claimed some rule that he auto passes restoring hull points with his chapter tactics and servos. This doesn't seem right as I though no roll can be auto pass. What did he have or what did he think he had that was wrong?

Righteousrob wrote:
This doesn't seem right as I though no roll can be auto pass...

There are several rolls that can be automatically passed, with the actual dice roll just being a formality. I'll let someone more familiar with the Space Marines cover the rest of your question.

Righteousrob wrote:
So I played a guy who ran Knights then a iron hands detachment. The iron hands had a tech marine with servo. And three serviitors. He claimed some rule that he auto passes restoring hull points with his chapter tactics and servos. This doesn't seem right as I though no roll can be auto pass. What did he have or what did he think he had that was wrong?

As stupid as it sounds, it can be automatically passed. The rule states: On a roll of a 5+, the techmarine restores one hullpoint of a vehicle he is in base contact with or embarked on.

You get plus one to this roll for:
Being Iron Hands
Having a Servo Harness
Every servitor with a servo arm in his unit

That alone gives him +5 to the roll. So even if he rolls a 1, it counts as rolling a 6

Iron hands can also Auto-pass their FnP rolls.

The reason for both is because, unlike other modifiers which change the actual dice roll itself or the stat responsible for it (such as saying "will hit on a 2+" for Kharn or "count BS as 1" for Snapshots), these simply add to your roll.

In essence, he still passes on a 5+, but this is after you add all of those together (Iron Hands, with a very lucky, very specific setup, can actually get a +3 bonus on a 4+ FnP, essentially making it another one of those "auto-pass" shenanigans).

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Iron hands can also Auto-pass their FnP rolls.

The reason for both is because, unlike other modifiers which change the actual dice roll itself or the stat responsible for it (such as saying "will hit on a 2+" for Kharn or "count BS as 1" for Snapshots), these simply add to your roll.

In essence, he still passes on a 5+, but this is after you add all of those together (Iron Hands, with a very lucky, very specific setup, can actually get a +3 bonus on a 4+ FnP, essentially making it another one of those "auto-pass" shenanigans).

That and you can just roll a 1 on a 1+ FNP and still pass

Technically a 1+ FnP doesn't exist, it's a 4+ FnP that adds a 3 to the dice result. We just call it a 1+ FnP as a shorthand because that's functionally what it is.

EDIT: And now we're getting off topic.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Technically a 1+ FnP doesn't exist, it's a 4+ FnP that adds a 3 to the dice result. We just call it a 1+ FnP as a shorthand because that's functionally what it is.

EDIT: And now we're getting off topic.

GW doesn't delineate a difference between the two. If they did then the 4+ cap on Necron Reanimation Protocols has no effect because all RP modifiers are "+1 to RP rolls"

 CrownAxe wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Technically a 1+ FnP doesn't exist, it's a 4+ FnP that adds a 3 to the dice result. We just call it a 1+ FnP as a shorthand because that's functionally what it is.

EDIT: And now we're getting off topic.

GW doesn't delineate a difference between the two. If they did then the 4+ cap on Necron Reanimation Protocols has no effect because all RP modifiers are "+1 to RP rolls"

The community seems to have ruled differently between SM and Necrons

The Necrons say "+1 to the roll" while the Iron Hands one says "add 1 to the result of any rolls".

Again, it's semantics, but there is a difference because in the Iron Hands case (and specifically the one I mentioned above), if there were to be a power that specifically erased 4+ FnP rolls and only 4+ FnP rolls, they'll be up a creek without a paddle since they will just flat out lose that FnP rather than just get it reduced (how it would interact later would be anyone's guess, since it's other rule should kick in giving it a 6+ FnP...which is then buffed by +2 to the result giving them a functional 4+ FnP that's really a 6+ FnP with 2 to the result and...yeah my brain's too tired at this point).

Dude nothing in the game does that. Being pedantic about it because of imaginary scenarios is ridiculous. You're just making things needlessly difficult for the sake of semantics.

Thank you for the answer then confusing me haha

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Righteousrob wrote:
So I played a guy who ran Knights then a iron hands detachment. The iron hands had a tech marine with servo. And three serviitors. He claimed some rule that he auto passes restoring hull points with his chapter tactics and servos. This doesn't seem right as I though no roll can be auto pass. What did he have or what did he think he had that was wrong?

As stupid as it sounds, it can be automatically passed. The rule states: On a roll of a 5+, the techmarine restores one hullpoint of a vehicle he is in base contact with or embarked on.

You get plus one to this roll for:
Being Iron Hands
Having a Servo Harness
Every servitor with a servo arm in his unit

That alone gives him +5 to the roll. So even if he rolls a 1, it counts as rolling a 6

Doesn't sound stupid at all.

Think about it this way. Say I'm driving and my muffler falls off. My buddy, who is a mechanic, happens to drive by. He has a screwdriver and some duct tape. He MIGHT be able to help me out. He might not. It's not an ideal situation. Now, instead, imagine that the same friend drives by in a fully stocked work truck complete with all the equipment he needs to lift the car and replace the parts. He also has a team of fellow mechanics and a box of spare parts specifically designed for my car... including a spare muffler. Now, what are the odds that he can help me? 100%? An Iron Hands Techmarine (top tier mechanic) with a Servo Harness (top tier tools) and a team of Servitors (assistant mechanics presumably w/spare parts) will basically have a 100% chance to fix any issue he runs across on the battlefield short of a total wreck or explosion. This is why he can auto pass the die roll.

The FnP thing is a similar situation. It's possible to stack so many effects that a model will be able to shrug off literally any wound that doesn't cause instant death or flat out remove him from play. In my head, I imagine this berserker type dude who is just soldiering through everything and shrugging off bullet wounds. At the end of the battle, he slumps down, a grim smile on his face as the light slowly fades from his eyes.

A demolisher cannon (S10) hits a sentinel (AV10) square in its cockpit.
Roll to penetrate.
You'll need a 0 to glance and a 1+ to penetrate.

 Kriswall wrote:

Spoiler:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Righteousrob wrote:
So I played a guy who ran Knights then a iron hands detachment. The iron hands had a tech marine with servo. And three serviitors. He claimed some rule that he auto passes restoring hull points with his chapter tactics and servos. This doesn't seem right as I though no roll can be auto pass. What did he have or what did he think he had that was wrong?

As stupid as it sounds, it can be automatically passed. The rule states: On a roll of a 5+, the techmarine restores one hullpoint of a vehicle he is in base contact with or embarked on.

You get plus one to this roll for:
Being Iron Hands
Having a Servo Harness
Every servitor with a servo arm in his unit

That alone gives him +5 to the roll. So even if he rolls a 1, it counts as rolling a 6

Doesn't sound stupid at all.

Think about it this way. Say I'm driving and my muffler falls off. My buddy, who is a mechanic, happens to drive by. He has a screwdriver and some duct tape. He MIGHT be able to help me out. He might not. It's not an ideal situation. Now, instead, imagine that the same friend drives by in a fully stocked work truck complete with all the equipment he needs to lift the car and replace the parts. He also has a team of fellow mechanics and a box of spare parts specifically designed for my car... including a spare muffler. Now, what are the odds that he can help me? 100%? An Iron Hands Techmarine (top tier mechanic) with a Servo Harness (top tier tools) and a team of Servitors (assistant mechanics presumably w/spare parts) will basically have a 100% chance to fix any issue he runs across on the battlefield short of a total wreck or explosion. This is why he can auto pass the die roll.

The FnP thing is a similar situation. It's possible to stack so many effects that a model will be able to shrug off literally any wound that doesn't cause instant death or flat out remove him from play. In my head, I imagine this berserker type dude who is just soldiering through everything and shrugging off bullet wounds. At the end of the battle, he slumps down, a grim smile on his face as the light slowly fades from his eyes.

While I agree with you on the Auto-Repair, it's nowhere like the FnP disaster. A model with auto-FnP and EW is (aside from stuff that removes from play) unkillable, and that is just ridiculous.

 Hanskrampf wrote:

While I agree with you on the Auto-Repair, it's nowhere like the FnP disaster. A model with auto-FnP and EW is (aside from stuff that removes from play) unkillable, and that is just ridiculous.

Not true. EW only prevents loss of all Wounds from Instant Death, it does not disallow ID, which is what would be required to allow FNP to trigger.

 Hanskrampf wrote:
A model with auto-FnP and EW is (aside from stuff that removes from play) unkillable, and that is just ridiculous.

No it's not. Just more difficult. D weapons ignore FNP. Remove from Play effects ignore FNP. Instant Death ignores FNP.

Agreed... just make an attack that turns off FnP and all of a sudden it doesn't make a difference that there is an effective auto pass. You never get to make the roll. As has been stated, an Instant Death attack will turn off FnP even with Eternal Warrior present.

 Kriswall wrote:
Doesn't sound stupid at all.

Think about it this way. Say I'm driving and my muffler falls off. My buddy, who is a mechanic, happens to drive by. He has a screwdriver and some duct tape. He MIGHT be able to help me out. He might not. It's not an ideal situation. Now, instead, imagine that the same friend drives by in a fully stocked work truck complete with all the equipment he needs to lift the car and replace the parts. He also has a team of fellow mechanics and a box of spare parts specifically designed for my car... including a spare muffler. Now, what are the odds that he can help me? 100%? An Iron Hands Techmarine (top tier mechanic) with a Servo Harness (top tier tools) and a team of Servitors (assistant mechanics presumably w/spare parts) will basically have a 100% chance to fix any issue he runs across on the battlefield short of a total wreck or explosion. This is why he can auto pass the die roll.

The FnP thing is a similar situation. It's possible to stack so many effects that a model will be able to shrug off literally any wound that doesn't cause instant death or flat out remove him from play. In my head, I imagine this berserker type dude who is just soldiering through everything and shrugging off bullet wounds. At the end of the battle, he slumps down, a grim smile on his face as the light slowly fades from his eyes.

My actual berserkers wish they had it this good. But no I have to settle for +1 attack on the charge.

Just to clarify about the Necrons RP, that rule specifically state it can never be improved beyond a 4+. Though less of a relief is with all the new Tzeentchy warplfame attacks coming we might see many units getting a 1+ FNP roll during a game

 Kriswall wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Righteousrob wrote:
So I played a guy who ran Knights then a iron hands detachment. The iron hands had a tech marine with servo. And three serviitors. He claimed some rule that he auto passes restoring hull points with his chapter tactics and servos. This doesn't seem right as I though no roll can be auto pass. What did he have or what did he think he had that was wrong?

As stupid as it sounds, it can be automatically passed. The rule states: On a roll of a 5+, the techmarine restores one hullpoint of a vehicle he is in base contact with or embarked on.

You get plus one to this roll for:
Being Iron Hands
Having a Servo Harness
Every servitor with a servo arm in his unit

That alone gives him +5 to the roll. So even if he rolls a 1, it counts as rolling a 6

Doesn't sound stupid at all.

Think about it this way. Say I'm driving and my muffler falls off. My buddy, who is a mechanic, happens to drive by. He has a screwdriver and some duct tape. He MIGHT be able to help me out. He might not. It's not an ideal situation. Now, instead, imagine that the same friend drives by in a fully stocked work truck complete with all the equipment he needs to lift the car and replace the parts. He also has a team of fellow mechanics and a box of spare parts specifically designed for my car... including a spare muffler. Now, what are the odds that he can help me? 100%? An Iron Hands Techmarine (top tier mechanic) with a Servo Harness (top tier tools) and a team of Servitors (assistant mechanics presumably w/spare parts) will basically have a 100% chance to fix any issue he runs across on the battlefield short of a total wreck or explosion. This is why he can auto pass the die roll.

The FnP thing is a similar situation. It's possible to stack so many effects that a model will be able to shrug off literally any wound that doesn't cause instant death or flat out remove him from play. In my head, I imagine this berserker type dude who is just soldiering through everything and shrugging off bullet wounds. At the end of the battle, he slumps down, a grim smile on his face as the light slowly fades from his eyes.

It's incredibly stupid. You cannot explain away broken game mechanics are being fine "because it would make sense" in a world with a bunch of crap that makes no sense AND other game mechanics that do not and are not designed to emulate reality. The rules should reflect a fun game first. Unkillable units are damaging to the game as a whole and rules that allow them to exist are stupid.

Before you say "d weapons can kill him!" some armies have no access to d weapon. Nids comes to mind. No d... anywhere. Str 8 or higher almost excludively on FW models. Great.

 Kriswall wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Righteousrob wrote:
So I played a guy who ran Knights then a iron hands detachment. The iron hands had a tech marine with servo. And three serviitors. He claimed some rule that he auto passes restoring hull points with his chapter tactics and servos. This doesn't seem right as I though no roll can be auto pass. What did he have or what did he think he had that was wrong?

As stupid as it sounds, it can be automatically passed. The rule states: On a roll of a 5+, the techmarine restores one hullpoint of a vehicle he is in base contact with or embarked on.

You get plus one to this roll for:
Being Iron Hands
Having a Servo Harness
Every servitor with a servo arm in his unit

That alone gives him +5 to the roll. So even if he rolls a 1, it counts as rolling a 6

Doesn't sound stupid at all.

Think about it this way. Say I'm driving and my muffler falls off. My buddy, who is a mechanic, happens to drive by. He has a screwdriver and some duct tape. He MIGHT be able to help me out. He might not. It's not an ideal situation. Now, instead, imagine that the same friend drives by in a fully stocked work truck complete with all the equipment he needs to lift the car and replace the parts. He also has a team of fellow mechanics and a box of spare parts specifically designed for my car... including a spare muffler. Now, what are the odds that he can help me? 100%? An Iron Hands Techmarine (top tier mechanic) with a Servo Harness (top tier tools) and a team of Servitors (assistant mechanics presumably w/spare parts) will basically have a 100% chance to fix any issue he runs across on the battlefield short of a total wreck or explosion. This is why he can auto pass the die roll.

The FnP thing is a similar situation. It's possible to stack so many effects that a model will be able to shrug off literally any wound that doesn't cause instant death or flat out remove him from play. In my head, I imagine this berserker type dude who is just soldiering through everything and shrugging off bullet wounds. At the end of the battle, he slumps down, a grim smile on his face as the light slowly fades from his eyes.

Your sir, have the kind of imagination that I like to see in people who play this game. Can a 1+ FnP be dumb to fight? Sure. But given fun context, you can atleast enjoy the story of the battle.

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Righteousrob wrote:
So I played a guy who ran Knights then a iron hands detachment. The iron hands had a tech marine with servo. And three serviitors. He claimed some rule that he auto passes restoring hull points with his chapter tactics and servos. This doesn't seem right as I though no roll can be auto pass. What did he have or what did he think he had that was wrong?

As stupid as it sounds, it can be automatically passed. The rule states: On a roll of a 5+, the techmarine restores one hullpoint of a vehicle he is in base contact with or embarked on.

You get plus one to this roll for:
Being Iron Hands
Having a Servo Harness
Every servitor with a servo arm in his unit

That alone gives him +5 to the roll. So even if he rolls a 1, it counts as rolling a 6

Doesn't sound stupid at all.

Think about it this way. Say I'm driving and my muffler falls off. My buddy, who is a mechanic, happens to drive by. He has a screwdriver and some duct tape. He MIGHT be able to help me out. He might not. It's not an ideal situation. Now, instead, imagine that the same friend drives by in a fully stocked work truck complete with all the equipment he needs to lift the car and replace the parts. He also has a team of fellow mechanics and a box of spare parts specifically designed for my car... including a spare muffler. Now, what are the odds that he can help me? 100%? An Iron Hands Techmarine (top tier mechanic) with a Servo Harness (top tier tools) and a team of Servitors (assistant mechanics presumably w/spare parts) will basically have a 100% chance to fix any issue he runs across on the battlefield short of a total wreck or explosion. This is why he can auto pass the die roll.

The FnP thing is a similar situation. It's possible to stack so many effects that a model will be able to shrug off literally any wound that doesn't cause instant death or flat out remove him from play. In my head, I imagine this berserker type dude who is just soldiering through everything and shrugging off bullet wounds. At the end of the battle, he slumps down, a grim smile on his face as the light slowly fades from his eyes.

Your sir, have the kind of imagination that I like to see in people who play this game. Can a 1+ FnP be dumb to fight? Sure. But given fun context, you can atleast enjoy the story of the battle.

At least its not a +1 FnP on a certain Iron Hands bloke... You know... The one with T6 and EW.