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I would be interested to know the stats between the people that switched to KOW rules compared to the people the picked up the AOS rules. The relevance of this is I wonder if 40k does go pointless and more free for all will mantic do the same as they did with the death of fantasy and just go "hey come over here, we'll write you some rules, bring your armies let's have some fun"

Sword Of Caliban wrote:
GW didn't kill fantasy they IMPROVED it. AOS is epic and every game I have had so far has been fun contrary to what most 40k players believe. I haven't played 40k since picking up AOS and I can't see myself playing it for a while yet, but I forsee a time when 40k gets the same treatment as fantasy did, so you guys better get used to it.

The improvement to fantasy is the large amount of new players, for non-GW games. Thank to AoS it become quite easy to get people in to other company systems. So why I don't see happen to 40K, it would be great if they did.

 daemonish wrote:
I would be interested to know the stats between the people that switched to KOW rules compared to the people the picked up the AOS rules. The relevance of this is I wonder if 40k does go pointless and more free for all will mantic do the same as they did with the death of fantasy and just go "hey come over here, we'll write you some rules, bring your armies let's have some fun"

There is theories around that Mantic has hurried development of their Warpath Sci-fi game and rescheduled the Kickstarter earlier, precisely in order to be ready for the exodus following a AoS-ing of 40K.

I just couldn't resist

Here's Sigmar!

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Removing pts wouldn't be so bad. You could just use MSRP instead. Instead of exchanging army lists you would just exchange receipts. You could even do away with all the dice rolling and moving models around. Just total up the receipts and whoever has the highest number wins.

Didn't they already do that at tourneys?

Yodhrin wrote:If they've even the slightest shred of sense left to them they better get to work on that retcon quick-sharp, because I guarantee you for every person who's jumping for joy at this idea there will be five or ten folk out there in the world going "Wait, they blew up my faction's home planet and killed a bunch of characters I like?! feth this, I'm out." - you can't get people to invest the ridiculous amounts of time and money required to get into GW games and then just feth about with the stuff that drew many folk in in the first place, because the investment of that much emotional energy into something inspires a sense of connection and ownership.

I remember thinking of starting a War Griffons battlegroup for Epic. Then Hive Fleet Leviathan ate Gryphonne IV...

BlaxicanX wrote:Disagree entirely. If Fenris does actually end up getting destroyed, my prediction is that people, being the adults that they are, will shrug and move on because they're aware that fluff is fictional and it has no actual bearing on their multi-hundreds of dollars' worth of toys.

... mind you, I've never seen the kind of ragequitting over fluff in Epic, that happens with 40K. Fluff in 40K is a much bigger shibboleth than you think.

Shrug and move on? Sure. To another game.

Moopy wrote:I completely agree. I had was a part owner of a comic book store when that happened. We sold a ton of Superman stuff.

Yeah. And people bought a bunch of End Times stuff and AoS starters.

It might be a tad different if DC only relied on Batman and Superman comics, decided Superman wasn't selling as well so axed it (without plans to bring him back after the furore died down), then couldn't understand why interest was fading in their replacement... I dunno... Mr. Mxyzptlk comic.

On second thoughts, a better Supes analogy for AoS would be Electric Superman.

However, it reenergizes a whole lot more to be part of that change or give it another shot if they left.

Do you really think that Fenris blowing up (or not) will bring ex-players flocking back to 40K?

The idea that you can't move forward because it limits older players doesn't hold weight.

No, but pissing off the fanbase does.

Chikout wrote:$1000 chess sets are not unheard of.

They're probably worth $1000, tho.

Requizen wrote:Oh look, more unfounded AoS-40k rumors. Never ceases to generate pages and pages of arguments.

And arguments about people arguing, and people turning up just to argue about how they're above the arguing...

Sword Of Caliban wrote:GW didn't kill fantasy they IMPROVED it. AOS is epic and every game I have had so far has been fun contrary to what most 40k players believe. I haven't played 40k since picking up AOS and I can't see myself playing it for a while yet, but I forsee a time when 40k gets the same treatment as fantasy did, so you guys better get used to it.

How many games have you played? I mean, game systems, not game sessions.

455_PWR wrote:I almost hope it does go to an aos type game. Then there will be no more changes, no op units with power creep... No more $50 books every month...

No players...

 Vermis wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Removing pts wouldn't be so bad. You could just use MSRP instead. Instead of exchanging army lists you would just exchange receipts. You could even do away with all the dice rolling and moving models around. Just total up the receipts and whoever has the highest number wins.

Didn't they already do that at tourneys?

Yodhrin wrote:If they've even the slightest shred of sense left to them they better get to work on that retcon quick-sharp, because I guarantee you for every person who's jumping for joy at this idea there will be five or ten folk out there in the world going "Wait, they blew up my faction's home planet and killed a bunch of characters I like?! feth this, I'm out." - you can't get people to invest the ridiculous amounts of time and money required to get into GW games and then just feth about with the stuff that drew many folk in in the first place, because the investment of that much emotional energy into something inspires a sense of connection and ownership.

I remember thinking of starting a War Griffons battlegroup for Epic. Then Hive Fleet Leviathan ate Gryphonne IV...

BlaxicanX wrote:Disagree entirely. If Fenris does actually end up getting destroyed, my prediction is that people, being the adults that they are, will shrug and move on because they're aware that fluff is fictional and it has no actual bearing on their multi-hundreds of dollars' worth of toys.

... mind you, I've never seen the kind of ragequitting over fluff in Epic, that happens with 40K. Fluff in 40K is a much bigger shibboleth than you think.

Shrug and move on? Sure. To another game.

Moopy wrote:I completely agree. I had was a part owner of a comic book store when that happened. We sold a ton of Superman stuff.

Yeah. And people bought a bunch of End Times stuff and AoS starters.

It might be a tad different if DC only relied on Batman and Superman comics, decided Superman wasn't selling as well so axed it (without plans to bring him back after the furore died down), then couldn't understand why interest was fading in their replacement... I dunno... Mr. Mxyzptlk comic.

On second thoughts, a better Supes analogy for AoS would be Electric Superman.

However, it reenergizes a whole lot more to be part of that change or give it another shot if they left.

Do you really think that Fenris blowing up (or not) will bring ex-players flocking back to 40K?

The idea that you can't move forward because it limits older players doesn't hold weight.

No, but pissing off the fanbase does.

Chikout wrote:$1000 chess sets are not unheard of.

They're probably worth $1000, tho.

Requizen wrote:Oh look, more unfounded AoS-40k rumors. Never ceases to generate pages and pages of arguments.

And arguments about people arguing, and people turning up just to argue about how they're above the arguing...

Sword Of Caliban wrote:GW didn't kill fantasy they IMPROVED it. AOS is epic and every game I have had so far has been fun contrary to what most 40k players believe. I haven't played 40k since picking up AOS and I can't see myself playing it for a while yet, but I forsee a time when 40k gets the same treatment as fantasy did, so you guys better get used to it.

How many games have you played? I mean, game systems, not game sessions.

455_PWR wrote:I almost hope it does go to an aos type game. Then there will be no more changes, no op units with power creep... No more $50 books every month...

No players...

Game systems I have played are - Warhammer Fantasy, Warhammer 40000, Battlefield Gothic, Age of Sigmar, Dropzone Commander, Warmachine/Hordes, AVP and I dabbled with Infinity. AOS and DZC are my favourites. I might not have played loads of systems but I have played enough.

I don't think they'll be doing anything quite as drastic as Sigmaring 40k - I can see them doing something similar to 3rd Edition, but more consolidating, not trimming. Formations can work without points if there's enough variety, I'd argue that it's even harder to balance though.

horuslupercal1988 wrote:
I personaly think it would be cool, in some sort that all primarchs came back and you can use them but I would hate if the destroy al the fluff and setting like whf,

What if they come back and they're preparing a new primarch level of power for all the factions. Maybe all of this stuff about Farsight is about him about to become the Tau equivalent? Assuming they find a way to bring them back in the other armies will need something as memorable and cool for the tabletop and with all the prophecy and fate surrounding Farsight I couldn't see anyone else eligible.

 Gamgee wrote:

horuslupercal1988 wrote:
I personaly think it would be cool, in some sort that all primarchs came back and you can use them but I would hate if the destroy al the fluff and setting like whf,

What if they come back and they're preparing a new primarch level of power for all the factions. Maybe all of this stuff about Farsight is about him about to become the Tau equivalent? Assuming they find a way to bring them back in the other armies will need something as memorable and cool for the tabletop and with all the prophecy and fate surrounding Farsight I couldn't see anyone else eligible.

If that's true, I welcome the release of the Silent King with open arms.

The more I read about 30k the more I would like 8th ed to be based on it.

Imagine these codexes: Each consisting of a major faction with the sub armies having 30k version chapter tactics with more restrictions/specific rules that influence how they play.

Codex Astartes: Space Marines - All marine chapters including those that currently have their own books with the more advanced/restrictive versions of chapter tactics from 30k.

Imperium of Man: AM, Inquisition (as a type of AM), Sisters. Again, all with chapter tactics including for different types of AM armies.

Mechanicum: Includes both cult and skitari along with dark mech.

Chaos: Rules for each god, several war bands of chaos marines and dark mech. Also chaos united or whatever the hell it's called.

Necrons: Several chapter tactics for different factions. Loyal to the silent king, c'tan horror old crons etc etc...

Orks: Several chapter tactics for various clans and the tactics they favor.

Nids: Tactics representing the various hive fleets and the way they adapted differently. More mc. More hordes. More specialized etc etc...

Eldar: Dark and Craftworld with Harlequinn in one book. The different chapter tactics would place the restrictions and grant the bonuses that made them one, the other, or a blend.

Tau: Same deal as all the others. Represent people like Farseer, advance their fluff a little to show a few sub factions. Enough that the tactics could be made interesting.

I think 30k with the points scaled down a bit so that it fit closer to 1k-2k games easily with the same restrictions on LoW would make for an awesome game.


I would love to see fluff books get released from that point forward including new chapter tactics for each army instead of all the nonsense they have now.

Lance845 wrote:
The more I read about 30k the more I would like 8th ed to be based on it.

Imagine these codexes: Each consisting of a major faction with the sub armies having 30k version chapter tactics with more restrictions/specific rules that influence how they play.

Codex Astartes: Space Marines - All marine chapters including those that currently have their own books with the more advanced/restrictive versions of chapter tactics from 30k.

Imperium of Man: AM, Inquisition (as a type of AM), Sisters. Again, all with chapter tactics including for different types of AM armies.

Mechanicum: Includes both cult and skitari along with dark mech.

Chaos: Rules for each god, several war bands of chaos marines and dark mech. Also chaos united or whatever the hell it's called.

Necrons: Several chapter tactics for different factions. Loyal to the silent king, c'tan horror old crons etc etc...

Orks: Several chapter tactics for various clans and the tactics they favor.

Nids: Tactics representing the various hive fleets and the way they adapted differently. More mc. More hordes. More specialized etc etc...

Eldar: Dark and Craftworld with Harlequinn in one book. The different chapter tactics would place the restrictions and grant the bonuses that made them one, the other, or a blend.

Tau: Same deal as all the others. Represent people like Farseer, advance their fluff a little to show a few sub factions. Enough that the tactics could be made interesting.

I think 30k with the points scaled down a bit so that it fit closer to 1k-2k games easily with the same restrictions on LoW would make for an awesome game.


I would love to see fluff books get released from that point forward including new chapter tactics for each army instead of all the nonsense they have now.

Would be cool, but it's propably not the best option, honestly. The way 30k is build, it's made to be the kind of game that 30k models and rules govern the best, where 40k has been through several different itterations with a lot of different themes, so it would be difficult to built a balanced rules around it.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Actually I think WHFB probably wasn't profitable by the end.

If we assume it accounted for 40% of GW's costs, which is reasonable given the size of the range was similar to 40K, and 20% of sales, which is reasonable given that 40K is a lot more popular,.. if these assumptions are roughly correct, the implications are clear.

I believe per-unit production costs are relatively small, but GW's biggest fixed cost is its chain of shops and they barely break even. High Street rents/rates are huge (and off-High Street is nearly as bad), even in provincial towns. Having half the stock in your expensive shop basically not selling (and I sadly include LotR in that) is a killer - I can't imagine any company would let that pass.

Which says nothing about how WHFB got into that state, or the effectiveness of its replacement, but that's for another thread.

Did anyone who players the rumour game see this coming?

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Vedros?_requestid=3140097

Looks like a version of 40k specifically for younger players.

 MattofWar wrote:
Did anyone who players the rumour game see this coming?

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Vedros?_requestid=3140097

Looks like a version of 40k specifically for younger players.

No obvious rule changes in the demo, although interesting how instead of moving, the guy said you can run 10 inches.

wonder if thats a new change coming!

 Wilson wrote:

No obvious rule changes in the demo,

rapid fire+charge, run = 4 inch

Can't say I'm surprised. GW has never cared about balance. To them, it just stops people from buying more Landraiders or Bloodthristers.

 MattofWar wrote:
Did anyone who players the rumour game see this coming?

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Vedros?_requestid=3140097

Looks like a version of 40k specifically for younger players.

*Begins ringing the doom bell*

I sense an end times its waaay to obvious now.

 shinros wrote:

 MattofWar wrote:
Did anyone who players the rumour game see this coming?

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Vedros?_requestid=3140097

Looks like a version of 40k specifically for younger players.

*Begins ringing the doom bell*

I sense an end times its waaay to obvious now.

In what way does retreading existing stuff for a younger audience scream "end times"? If they were going to refresh 40k wouldn't it make more sense to make this a part of that?

inb4 "but it's GW, nothing they do ever makes any sense arf arf"

The new boxed hobby set has simplified rules, but they are just to allow intro-level games with what's in there.

It's no more a herald of end times than back in 2nd edition, when me and my best buddy got our intro to 40K by using the rules for the board game Tyranid Attack (also called advanced space crusade) to play out battles between Space Marines and Tyranids. I remember 4" scout moves (we turned spaces into an inch) and Space Marine Scouts with heavy bolters rolled 4d6 to fire, whereas Genestealers rolled 4d6 on the attack.

After awhile, we moved onto the 2nd edition rules.