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Its not a huge deal but..

a 25mm base has an area of of 490mm

a 32mm Base has an area of 800mm

That 7mm difference in diameter is actually a ~ 60% reduction in area. This area is of course still small but could easily be the difference between getting one more model in b2b, or scattered blast marker hitting or not on a certain die roll.

blaktoof wrote:
Its not a huge deal but..

a 25mm base has an area of of 490mm

a 32mm Base has an area of 800mm

That 7mm difference in diameter is actually a ~ 60% reduction in area. This area is of course still small but could easily be the difference between getting one more model in b2b, or scattered blast marker hitting or not on a certain die roll.

Not huge for a single model, but is compounded for a squad. A 20 man Crusader Squad takes up SIGNIFICANTLY less real estate when on 25mm bases than when on 32mm ones.

 Kriswall wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
Its not a huge deal but..

a 25mm base has an area of of 490mm

a 32mm Base has an area of 800mm

That 7mm difference in diameter is actually a ~ 60% reduction in area. This area is of course still small but could easily be the difference between getting one more model in b2b, or scattered blast marker hitting or not on a certain die roll.

Not huge for a single model, but is compounded for a squad. A 20 man Crusader Squad takes up SIGNIFICANTLY less real estate when on 25mm bases than when on 32mm ones.

Very true.

Which of course is a huge advantage when arriving from deepstrike or other such things.

 Kriswall wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
Its not a huge deal but..

a 25mm base has an area of of 490mm

a 32mm Base has an area of 800mm

That 7mm difference in diameter is actually a ~ 60% reduction in area. This area is of course still small but could easily be the difference between getting one more model in b2b, or scattered blast marker hitting or not on a certain die roll.

Not huge for a single model, but is compounded for a squad. A 20 man Crusader Squad takes up SIGNIFICANTLY less real estate when on 25mm bases than when on 32mm ones.

So does this mean that base swapping is okay depending on the model, its size, how many are in its unit and te area of the base?

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
Its not a huge deal but..

a 25mm base has an area of of 490mm

a 32mm Base has an area of 800mm

That 7mm difference in diameter is actually a ~ 60% reduction in area. This area is of course still small but could easily be the difference between getting one more model in b2b, or scattered blast marker hitting or not on a certain die roll.

Not huge for a single model, but is compounded for a squad. A 20 man Crusader Squad takes up SIGNIFICANTLY less real estate when on 25mm bases than when on 32mm ones.

So does this mean that base swapping is okay depending on the model, its size, how many are in its unit and te area of the base?

My stance is that it's never ok. Just pointing out that the advantage gain can vary depending on the sizes involved. The comment was to point out that we're not talking about a "3mm difference". We can be talking several inches.

I thought this was an interesting article expounding some of the advantages of 32mm over 25mm (and thus the disadvantages of 25mm over 32mm).

It's not really relevant to the rules legality of changing base sizes, but then I'm not arguing to a modeling for advantage point anyway...

 Kriswall wrote:

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
Its not a huge deal but..

a 25mm base has an area of of 490mm

a 32mm Base has an area of 800mm

That 7mm difference in diameter is actually a ~ 60% reduction in area. This area is of course still small but could easily be the difference between getting one more model in b2b, or scattered blast marker hitting or not on a certain die roll.

Not huge for a single model, but is compounded for a squad. A 20 man Crusader Squad takes up SIGNIFICANTLY less real estate when on 25mm bases than when on 32mm ones.

So does this mean that base swapping is okay depending on the model, its size, how many are in its unit and te area of the base?

My stance is that it's never ok. Just pointing out that the advantage gain can vary depending on the sizes involved. The comment was to point out that we're not talking about a "3mm difference". We can be talking several inches.

On the flip side, there are benefits to having a larger base as well. On disadvantage is that the base itself is larger and can "reach further", but that also means that a model firing at it, does not need to reach its body but just its base to be considered in range. A large base = a easier target. Now did GW do this to 'nerf' single models or models, or that its a more 'thematic' base. Like they have been quoted saying. So, taking a penalty to base a model and give it a pose isnt really fair to the modeller who, may in fact, find that the basing its taking away from the model.

Assault marines on bigger bases was done for stability, pose and thematics. I think it would be perfectly acceptable, to model a new kit onto 25mm to match an older style assault marine army. This is done for the modeling aspect, as much as the base size increase, but should be optional in EITHER case. I am going to magnetize it to a 32mm base and run it on a 25mm base. if someone asks, ill present my short reasoning, and if they ask me to change it, I will.

"Modeling for advantage" makes no sense. There are no advantages.

1. 32mm based models can reach further. No. You measure leading edge to leading edge or trailing edge to trailing edge. No part of the model is allowed to move more than 6/9/12/18 inches from its starting point. Technically, you pivot after movement. Even if the movement is broken, with pivots in the middle, the subsequent movements are still measured the same.

Aside from that, unless you are measuring every, single, fething move, run, charge, weapon range, deployment, etc, etc, etc to. the. mother. fething. MILImeter....GTFO!

2. "You can't fit as many in BtB with 25mm versus 32mm" No. It is absolutely impossible to fit more than 6 25mm bases in BtB contact with with another 25 mm base. It is a geometric hexagon.

You try to pull "They can't actually touch, because of cool poses, but that guy 'counts' as in BtB" do not quibble with me about MILImeters.

If you want to try to force me to use 32mm bases, you still can't get another dude in BtB with him. There is not enough additional circumference to fit.

3.Granted 20 dudes on 32mm bases with 2" between them make a longer Conga Line than the same 20 dudes on 25mm bases. But let's be honest, the Conga Line is not a tactic that anyone actually uses in any practical sense. And again, unless you are measuring everything to the MM, quit quibbling.

4. You can fit more 25mm under a template/blast or 'touch' that 32mm with the marker. Seriously? Unless you are using lasers and protractors to measure scatter directions and distances, and as long as you are trying to look down through a marker to determine which models are 'touched', the game mechanics are so inherently inaccurate that quibbling over MM is fething ridiculous.

5. 32mm bases can't fit where 25mm bases can. No. The mechanics represent difficult/dangerous terrain with die rolls, not with 'you can't fit'. Models/units are 'assumed' to have the necessary equipment to breach wall/barriers for goodness sake. As long as we have the 'wobbly model' rule, and can say "that guy is actually there, but I don't want him to fall over", positioning of models doesn't actually matter. Movement restrictions are based on proximity to enemy models(Can't get within an inch), not 'the base don't fit'. Warmahordes has those rules, not 40K.

Basically, the mechanics of 40K are so inherently inaccurate in actual play, that quibbling over 25mm bases vs 32mm bases is a fething stupid.

Kind of relevant, but I've been picking up the old Metal assassin's the last few weeks since I prefer their style over the fancy pants plastic show pieces and will be keeping them on their smaller bases. Didn't even consider anything about it till I read this thread...

WaughGoff wrote:
"Modeling for advantage" makes no sense. There are no advantages.

1. 32mm based models can reach further. No. You measure leading edge to leading edge or trailing edge to trailing edge. No part of the model is allowed to move more than 6/9/12/18 inches from its starting point. Technically, you pivot after movement. Even if the movement is broken, with pivots in the middle, the subsequent movements are still measured the same.

Aside from that, unless you are measuring every, single, fething move, run, charge, weapon range, deployment, etc, etc, etc to. the. mother. fething. MILImeter....GTFO!

If your models are only ever moving in a straight line and in one direction from deployment until the end of game, you are correct. If a model moves forward and then chooses to move directly in the opposite direction the next to turn (to try and assault a Drop Pod and riders, for example), that model will be 7mm closer if he's on a 32mm base versus a 25mm base. That can potentially mean needed an inch lower on an assault charge roll. Major advantage.

And while 1mm might not make a difference and is, quite frankly, sometimes challenging to accurately measure on a board, 7mm is quite a bit and you should at least try to get it right.

2. "You can't fit as many in BtB with 25mm versus 32mm" No. It is absolutely impossible to fit more than 6 25mm bases in BtB contact with with another 25 mm base. It is a geometric hexagon.

You try to pull "They can't actually touch, because of cool poses, but that guy 'counts' as in BtB" do not quibble with me about MILImeters.

If you want to try to force me to use 32mm bases, you still can't get another dude in BtB with him. There is not enough additional circumference to fit.

Might not be a huge advantage, but by the time you count every one in base to base, plus everyone within 2" of someone who is in base to base, you're potentially adding a model or two to a combat. This is an advantage.

3.Granted 20 dudes on 32mm bases with 2" between them make a longer Conga Line than the same 20 dudes on 25mm bases. But let's be honest, the Conga Line is not a tactic that anyone actually uses in any practical sense. And again, unless you are measuring everything to the MM, quit quibbling.

You should be attempting to measure everything to the millimeter. Out of curiosity, what's your acceptable margin of error? You're obviously ok with +/- 1mm. How about +/- 2mm? ...+/- 10mm? ...+/- 60mm?

4. You can fit more 25mm under a template/blast or 'touch' that 32mm with the marker. Seriously? Unless you are using lasers and protractors to measure scatter directions and distances, and as long as you are trying to look down through a marker to determine which models are 'touched', the game mechanics are so inherently inaccurate that quibbling over MM is fething ridiculous..

That 7mm base difference compounds very quickly. Yeah, one model is only 3.5mm wider in every direction. Two models next to each other are 7mm wider. 7mm is easily measured and can easily make the difference between being under a template or not. It's not like you have to have 100 models for a measurable effect. 2 models will do the trick. Again, advantage to smaller bases.

5. 32mm bases can't fit where 25mm bases can. No. The mechanics represent difficult/dangerous terrain with die rolls, not with 'you can't fit'. Models/units are 'assumed' to have the necessary equipment to breach wall/barriers for goodness sake. As long as we have the 'wobbly model' rule, and can say "that guy is actually there, but I don't want him to fall over", positioning of models doesn't actually matter. Movement restrictions are based on proximity to enemy models(Can't get within an inch), not 'the base don't fit'. Warmahordes has those rules, not 40K.

If you have a 28mm wide 'alley' of open ground in between two piece of difficult or dangerous terrain, you'll be able to place a 25mm based model on that strip of open ground. You won't be able to place the same model on a 32mm base without potentially taking difficult or dangerous terrain tests. Assuming the same alley of open ground is between two pieces of impassable terrain (walls, for example), the 32mm based model simply couldn't be placed. It would literally not fit. Wobbly model syndrome is for when a model can "fit", but would fall over... such as on a steep slope. Sometimes a model simply won't fit. In terms of model placement and avoiding difficult and dangerous terrain tests, it is advantageous to have a smaller base.

Basically, the mechanics of 40K are so inherently inaccurate in actual play, that quibbling over 25mm bases vs 32mm bases is a fething stupid.

It sounds like you just don't feel like applying any accuracy to your measurements. Sure, 1mm is tough to measure. 7mm is easy to measure and can mean the difference between taking difficult or dangerous terrain tests, making charge ranges, being under a template, etc... or not.

That you don't measure accurately enough to see the advantages does not somehow invalidate the advantages.

TL: DR; There are distinct and measurable advantages to being on a smaller base. Some are situational and others are minor, but they do exist and become more apparent when discussing larger units.