Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I stopped playing between the start of fifth and the launch of AoS so TK don't have the same sort of place in my heart as they will for many but I agree that it is a shame. I really like the aesthetics of the Egyptian undead force.

I suspect GW will see a decent spike in purchases of these models that presumably are fairly poor sellers though.

Well I'm glad I didn't put any extra effort into my TKs once AoS was dropped upon us... so much time that I thankfully haven't really wasted.

It'll be a shame though... I really like a lot of the models (even the almost-decade-and-a-half-old derpy skeles).

 Pojko wrote:
Honestly this is the best thing that could happen to TK players. eBay is the better option than buying directly from GW. No one gouges prices for things unless they're super old or super rare. I get all my stuff for 33-50% off retail price when I find a good lot. Sure sometimes you have to hunt, or do a little restoration where you strip paint. But it's worth it.

I'm not really following how it's the best thing to happen to TK players? TK players have been able to buy off ebay since forever, how is GW no longer producing them a benefit there? At best things will go on as normal, maybe a few TK players will quit and put their armies up on ebay, at worst ebay prices will jump.

As far as I can see, if you have a TK army finished or within reach of finished, you can carry on playing legacy WHFB, or play the legacy war scroll army in AoS, or swap to Kings of War or another fantasy game like HOTT.

It certainly isn't the end of everything, but if you liked GW games and hoped to continue playing a role in them and in their fluff, you are screwed.

Maybe because they can sell their armies off for a bit more if the models aren't available otherwise? I don't know, I'm not really folowing that one either.

I still haven't decided if I'm going to pick up any last chance tomb kings for my Death army or not. I mean, I had some plans, but I wasn't going to buy any more until I had painted at least a solid chunk of what I already have, and I don't like being rushed. I'd be a bit disappointed if waiting meant I couldn't get any of the stuff I wanted (a couple special characters, ushabti, tomb guard, chariots, the catapult), but... oh well?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
As far as I can see, if you have a TK army finished or within reach of finished...

Because of the nature of WHFB you're always going to have a lot of people who aren't "finished" with their armies. People who might have been planning 2000, 3000, 4000pt armies but only got as far as 500, 1000, 1500pts. Still massive investments but a long way off finished.

That's largely why GW killing off an army is such a frustrating thing. Sure, the models you had still exist, but what do you do now? Invest more money in to a defunct range of miniatures for a defunct rules system trying to scrounge up the scraps before they go OOP, or just write the whole thing off as a loss? Both prospects suck pretty bad IMO.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
That's largely why GW killing off an army is such a frustrating thing. Sure, the models you had still exist, but what do you do now? Invest more money in to a defunct range of miniatures for a defunct rules system trying to scrounge up the scraps before they go OOP, or just write the whole thing off as a loss? Both prospects suck pretty bad IMO.

That's what happened to me with Warmaster and Battlefleet Gothic. It sucks to be Tomb Kings player.

I don't really see how whole army going oop is positive in any way.

Well BOO - I've always liked the models, though I didn't pick this army

I can see ebay will be booming tho sigh

It may have been said already: the same sources that predicted the TK removal are now predicting that Brettonians are going to be squatted too

MongooseMatt wrote:

 Bottle wrote:

My main concern is the entire Order grand alliance being culled in one go - there are vast swathes of the Empire range I would like to add to my collection as well as many dwarf and elf kits.

Why so concerned? Remember, this is one of the strengths of AoS - models may disappear from retail but the Warscrolls will always be valid and always useable. You may not be able to grab everything you want right now, but there is always eBay and, chances are, you'll get them for a lot less than retail, even a few years down the road...

Until they remove the rules as well. The warscroll compendium is in the Last Chance section, too.

I agree with what others have said. The TK are way too clearly Egyptian for AoS. Even GW know they can't claim them as a wholly original concept, so they have to go. I'm honestly surprised we haven't seen more of this already. Somehow, I doubt that the "aelfs" will remain three distinct factions when their turn for renewal comes up.

I would put money on, in a year's time or so, a single-army "Undead" splat release that will resemble the old, pre-Vampire Counts Undead army, containing both TK and VC units, led by Nagash.

Many of the new kits will be suspiciously familiar.

At least there is a wealth of minis out there as good or better (if often slightly smaller) than the GW bretonnia line, and cheaper as well. A lot of it in plastic even. Perry, Gripping Beast and Fireforge to name a few.

Egyptian themed undead are much harder to find and then usually in metal and in a retro-style.

 Guildsman wrote:
I agree with what others have said. The TK are way too clearly Egyptian for AoS. Even GW know they can't claim them as a wholly original concept, so they have to go.

This is about sales, not copyright. Remember, the vamp counts line is even less protectable than the TK line, being even more generic. There are now and have always been far more 3rd party alternatives to anything in the vamp count range than there are for tomb kings stuff. Mantic has an entire substitute army line for vamps, even.

You say copyright isn't a thing, but Crom the Conqueror, Krell and Wulfrik have all been removed. The models are still sold under the new name 'exalted hero of chaos'. GW is scrubbing all fluff references to popular culture and stuft that isn't protectable. Sales will also be a factor as to why it was TK and not VK that got squatted. Had it been the reverse it would have been the VK being removed. They want undead of some type, they just ran with the popular line

No, they're scrubbing old finecast special characters that aren't part of the AoS fluff. The exact same thing happened to Vlad, Isabella, Konrad, Kemmler, and Krell - all perfectly protected IP, all replaced by generic 'vampire lord' and 'necromancer' and 'wight king' unit entries, none of which can be protected by copyright or trademark at all.

Same with the other heroes. 'Wulfric' is more protectable than 'exalted hero of chaos'. Just... like, it was a fine hypothesis and all, but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Pojko wrote:
Honestly this is the best thing that could happen to TK players. eBay is the better option than buying directly from GW. No one gouges prices for things unless they're super old or super rare. I get all my stuff for 33-50% off retail price when I find a good lot. Sure sometimes you have to hunt, or do a little restoration where you strip paint. But it's worth it.

I'm not really following how it's the best thing to happen to TK players? TK players have been able to buy off ebay since forever, how is GW no longer producing them a benefit there? At best things will go on as normal, maybe a few TK players will quit and put their armies up on ebay, at worst ebay prices will jump.

It's the best thing to happen from a certain point of view I suppose.

Now people who would have paid obscene retail prices will be forced to pay less. It's always baffled me why so many people are willing to buy directly from GW when there are alternatives even outside of eBay. Convinience? Familiarity? A misplaced sense of loyalty to a local GW shop that just wants your money and will not let you play games in the store?

All I know is that in the last 12 months I've snagged insane deals on Undead and Chaos Warrior lots at at least 50% off what I'd pay GW. Yes some need dips in a Simple Green or nail polish remover bath. But to accumulate 6,600 points of Vampire Counts for about $250 is worth it to me.

Bretonnians are next up on the chopping block so get the models while they are still available. I just bought the last few bretonnian models I needed to finish my army this week, and I suggest you all do the same.

From my understanding Beastmen are safe because they have been rolled into Chaos.

 Pojko wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Pojko wrote:
Honestly this is the best thing that could happen to TK players. eBay is the better option than buying directly from GW. No one gouges prices for things unless they're super old or super rare. I get all my stuff for 33-50% off retail price when I find a good lot. Sure sometimes you have to hunt, or do a little restoration where you strip paint. But it's worth it.

I'm not really following how it's the best thing to happen to TK players? TK players have been able to buy off ebay since forever, how is GW no longer producing them a benefit there? At best things will go on as normal, maybe a few TK players will quit and put their armies up on ebay, at worst ebay prices will jump.

It's the best thing to happen from a certain point of view I suppose.

Now people who would have paid obscene retail prices will be forced to pay less. It's always baffled me why so many people are willing to buy directly from GW when there are alternatives even outside of eBay. Convinience? Familiarity? A misplaced sense of loyalty to a local GW shop that just wants your money and will not let you play games in the store?

All I know is that in the last 12 months I've snagged insane deals on Undead and Chaos Warrior lots at at least 50% off what I'd pay GW. Yes some need dips in a Simple Green or nail polish remover bath. But to accumulate 6,600 points of Vampire Counts for about $250 is worth it to me.

I still don't see the positive here.... GW canning TK isn't going to improve the ebay situation except maybe initially as people dump their armies then over time it's slowly going to get harder and harder to find things on ebay as well.

If you think it's good because now everyone is forced to use ebay, err, it's not. Where do you think all the cheap ebay armies came from? It was people buying full price armies from GW first

Personally I've never been a big fan of ebay because my hobby time is more valuable to me than my hobby money, I'm not going to hang out waiting for something to come up on ebay when I can just buy it new, nor am I a fan of stripping models. The barrier to me putting together a 6000pt army has never been the price, it's always been the time. Of course that's just me, I don't expect others to agree.... but either way I don't think having people forced in to buying OOP models on ebay is in any way a good thing for TK players, lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Bretonnians are next up on the chopping block so get the models while they are still available. I just bought the last few bretonnian models I needed to finish my army this week, and I suggest you all do the same.

From my understanding Beastmen are safe because they have been rolled into Chaos.

I have a decent sized "half finished" Bretonnian army, at this point I'm just going to chalk them up as a loss I think.

weird, I was told on good authority in the background thread that all armies would continue to be supported in the rules and fluff.

I doubt TK will get an update again, why would they make updated warscrolls for a discontinued army? sure, you can use the models, assuming your club allows proxies.

I'm curious how many armies at this point are getting the full axe like TK. I'd wager bretts and empire are next.

Why would your club need to allow proxies? The TK scrolls still exist.

It's a little disappointing because Tomb Kings have such a unique look compared to other GW miniatures, and you would think there would be a place for them in the Mortal Realms.

Still, I can understand why GW is culling their line of miniatures. Age of Sigmar is developing its own aesthetic, and I think any product lines that don't fit that aesthetic are going to be discontinued to make room for new factions down the line.

 Malisteen wrote:
Why would your club need to allow proxies? The TK scrolls still exist.

The rules are discontinued too. You will no longer be able to download the PDF, and it will probably be dropped from the app.

I'm sure if you have a copy you can use them, but history says it's like using chaos dwarfs. The rules will eventually outpace the wars rolls.

Alas Poor Yorrick I knew Ye Well.

Granted it's not the first time it has been done to the Tomb Kings or other factions in WFB. The Chaos Dwarves and Dogs of War were still part of the setting and were mentioned but didn't have a standing army.

I think TK still fit into the AOS setting, they may not be Khermi TK but Shyish TK or Deathrattle Legions. So it is possible in the future we will see a TK army arise again or join the Death Alliance just with new names and looks.

 pox wrote:
weird, I was told on good authority in the background thread that all armies would continue to be supported in the rules and fluff.

I doubt TK will get an update again, why would they make updated warscrolls for a discontinued army? sure, you can use the models, assuming your club allows proxies.

I'm curious how many armies at this point are getting the full axe like TK. I'd wager bretts and empire are next.

Yeah, the assumptions I made in the fluff post is unfortunately wrong. I agree that Tomb King warscrolls will not get an update (but heck, GW does so many things that seem strange ). But since there is no official point systems, the current Tomb King warscrolls should be fine for games in Age of Sigamar until there is an AoS revision where the Tomb King warscrolls do not have enough information to allow them to be play with.

It's probably fairly easy to find skeletons and skellie horses and Egyptify them.

People ought to grab the war scrolls while they can, because those will vanish next.

 pox wrote:

 Malisteen wrote:
Why would your club need to allow proxies? The TK scrolls still exist.

The rules are discontinued too. You will no longer be able to download the PDF, and it will probably be dropped from the app.

Well, they link to the Tomb Kings PDF on the Grand Alliance: Death page on the webstore. No idea how long that will last.

When they told us Monday that TK and Bretonnia would go the way of the dodo, we were also told that the rules would not be removed from the site at all, as GW intend for them to be available at all time to the players who already own the miniatures.

So I think that whatever they are seeing in the "Last Chance to Buy" tab, people shouldn't worry too much.

I'm indifferent about it, because I don't play TK. Wonder how this will affect the rest of the game though.

With the demise of Specialist Games (previously), all rules for models not being sold were finally axed from GW's site. In codex updates, any rules that didn't have corresponding models were cut. The policy since then has been "if it doesn't have models, it doesn't get rules." The TK's and Bretonnians (who have already been noted to be on their way out on GW's Brussels FB page) will not have rules available in the future.

 jonolikespie wrote:


I worry for things like Dark Elves, which we haven't really seen show up in the fluff at all beyond Malerion (or whatever his new name is).

Dark Elves got the only 2 month faction update at least a decade (IIRC) that was full of new plastics just 2 years (so much infact the blatant favoratism compared to other faction in need of updates was what got me to quit WHFB). GW wouldn't go straight from that to dropping in such a short amount of time.