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 Azreal13 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
In defence of that concept, the Ahriman BL series does outline a plausible reason (for 40K) why a daemon Magnus could be present on a battlefield and not just pull off a hand wave victory.

Could you spoiler tag that reason? Because to work often enough as an excuse for seeing Magnus on as regular a basis as a Knight it would have to be Handwavium of a purity never before seen by mankind

Spoiler:

Magnus is fragmented, as a consequence of defying/pissing off Tzeentch (it's been a while, my memory of the details is hazy.) Basically the whole of the series is Ahriman being manipulated by Magnus into allowing him to become whole again. The shards are scattered throughout space and time and vary in capability, making it plausible that a Magnus as opposed to the Magnus could turn up on a 40K battlefield. Perhaps not with sufficient regularity to match the ubiquity of an IK, but would support a lower power level than historically.

I fully expect this not to be mentioned at all and for Magnus to be defeated in single combat by Logan Grimnar.

Well, even Ahriman didn't know, so as most Codexs etc are written from an Imperial viewpoint, it would make sense that it wouldn't get mentioned.

 warboss wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Maybe it's a combo Magnus/LoC kit. Ultimately a kit with 2 builds has a lot going for it.

I see that combo kit idea as a more realistic plan than two separate expensive one per player kits. The flip side though is that they came out with two bloodthirster kits (one named and the other not IIRC) a year or two ago.

Yes. However all they did for Skarbrand was make a new sprue and substitute it for one of the sprues in the Bloodthirster kit.

 redleger wrote:
I understand Tzeentch is the favored of the gods by GW but crikey, it is my understanding that Nurgle is on par as far as CSM players that I have encountered on the internetz. What is the likely hood of seeing Mortarion or Nurgle making an appearance in Warzone Fenris?

...not sure if serious.

 redleger wrote:
I understand Tzeentch is the favored of the gods by GW but crikey, it is my understanding that Nurgle is on par as far as CSM players that I have encountered on the internetz. What is the likely hood of seeing Mortarion or Nurgle making an appearance in Warzone Fenris?

Probably not much. Magnus has more reason to be there than Mortarion since y'know... Russ' boys burned everything on Prospero to the ground. He has a pretty huge axe to grind when it comes to Vlka Fenryka

I read the 2nd edition CSM Codex today. Is the Planet of Sorcerers stil mentioned in the current fluff? And the Tower of Cyclops?

I wonder if the Blood Ravens for some reason happen to be in proximity of Fenris for this.

For some reason, the first thought that went through my mind when seeing the Thaumaturge from Silver Tower was:

"I wonder if someone will convert that into Magnus?"

I think it might have been that the hair seemed redder in the first photo I took notice of.

Yes, the Thaumaturge looks pretty similiar to the Epic model. In the 2nd Ed CSM book Angron is also depicted like that.

Warhams-77 wrote:
I read the 2nd edition CSM Codex today. Is the Planet of Sorcerers stil mentioned in the current fluff? And the Tower of Cyclops?

Yes. I'm aware this is like the third post in a row that cites it, but the Ahriman series culminates on the Planet Of Sorcerers, and Magnus' residence is still a huge tower, albeit can't remember if it gets cited as the Cyclops Tower as its been a few months since I read it.

 EnTyme wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
This.... is a big shake up in the lore. How much do you want to bet Tau and all the other factions are on the brink of massive change?

I can't wait to see what happens to advance the Necrons and Dark Eldar. I had that crazy theory we'll see Slaanesh be defeated. Let's see if I'm right.

Don't know much about the DE, but my money is on a Silent King model for the Necrons. I would give him rules along the lines of "all Necron infantry within 18" of The Silent King gain Zealot".

All this talk about Thousand Sons? The Blood Ravens receiving an official model in DW:O? A new Dawn of War game later this yeah? I'm really thinking there is an excellent opportunity for some cross-promotion with a Codex: Blood Ravens.

Silent King would be cool. I would love to see Vect return with primarch level of power as well. As easy as it would be for my faction to design yet another suit I would really like to see a hero Tau unit. Farsight is probably the only possible candidate but the problem is they would really need to buff him to high heaven with upgrades ect.

Also to the people talking about Blood Ravens hell yes! I would be tempted to pick up maybe a small 500 points force of Space Magpies to model and paint. Can't leave my ravens hanging.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
In defence of that concept, the Ahriman BL series does outline a plausible reason (for 40K) why a daemon Magnus could be present on a battlefield and not just pull off a hand wave victory.

Could you spoiler tag that reason? Because to work often enough as an excuse for seeing Magnus on as regular a basis as a Knight it would have to be Handwavium of a purity never before seen by mankind

Spoiler:

Magnus is fragmented, as a consequence of defying/pissing off Tzeentch (it's been a while, my memory of the details is hazy.) Basically the whole of the series is Ahriman being manipulated by Magnus into allowing him to become whole again. The shards are scattered throughout space and time and vary in capability, making it plausible that a Magnus as opposed to the Magnus could turn up on a 40K battlefield. Perhaps not with sufficient regularity to match the ubiquity of an IK, but would support a lower power level than historically.

I fully expect this not to be mentioned at all and for Magnus to be defeated in single combat by Logan Grimnar.

Or Bjorn. A better end IMO would be Magnus purposely leaving a beaten Grimnar(or a wulfened out Russ) alive in front of a shattered and burning Fang. Stating that this was just the beginning and he's off to get his revenge on everyone else that betrayed him and his legion.

He beat the snot out of Bjorn in the book, so don't need that one.

But I certainly like the idea of him leaving on his own terms and not just being beaten because he had the misfortune of fighting against space marines and their plot armor.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Caederes wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
This sounds absolutely horrible. I for one don't need plastic Magnus and timeline advancement - plastic autocannons would suffice thank you. We're going to rely on the folks who brought us Draigo, newcrons, Dreadknights, Centurions and Age of fething Sigmar not to screw this up? Pete Haines help us. Pete Haines help us all.

Seriously? You're complaining that they are releasing a Daemon Primarch - something we haven't seen in model-form in decades - for a faction (Chaos, specifically Tzeentch) that has been woefully under-represented up until the Silver Tower release? You're complaining that we are going to get a model in plastic that no one surely ever expected to get, a model that will instantly stand out from nearly any other release done in the past half a decade? You're complaining that the story is evolving in a definitive way that could open up limitless new possibilities for the setting and its associated model releases (Magnus)? You're complaining simply because you're worried they're going to screw up a release before you have any idea as to the quality of said release?

Seriously. Can hobbyists ever be pleased by anything? Welp, I guess a *plastic Daemon Primarch*, plastic Rubric Marines and plastic Thousand Sons doesn't constitute any tentative excitement at all, just instant negativity. It doesn't matter that we've never seen plastic Thousand Sons of any kind or a plastic Daemon Primarch, or heck, updated models for Thousand Sons (including Magnus) in over a decade barring the 30K-specific Forge World upgrade sets. Nope.

Yes, I know, shocking isn't it. Some people have the capacity to form tentative views about things based on the prior quality of output and behaviour of the people making those things, it's madness I tell you, MADNESS! Not to mention this horrifying idea of disagreeing with your opinion! What is this, Communist Russia?! People who prefer 40K as the game the rules were designed to support rather than the creaking, straining, groaning, barely functional clusterhump of formations, fliers, and superheavies it's become are just obviously insane, there's no other possible reason they could hold an opinion not 100% in concordance with yours, oh Great Caederes, Most High Arbiter of The Hobby

Myself, I'm looking forward to seeing plastic Rubrics, the present aesthetic direction and quality of infantry plastics makes it a reasonably safe bet that they'll be nice. Magnus though, makes me despair - Daemon Primarchs can take on Titans, the only time I can even conceive of them appearing in 40K without them being being laughably overpowered or completely neutered is in some monstrous 20k points a side event game. The idea of running into a Daemon-bloody-Primarch with a demi-Company of Marines or a Guard Veteran Company(ie, a normal game of 40K) and having any chance whatsoever of victory is either hilarious, sad, or both. Crikey Magnus should be capable of wiping your average 40K army off the board with a psychic gesture, this guy was the embodiment of the Emperor's psychic potential and that was before he became a daemonic sorcerer infused with the power of a Chaos god; the concept of Captain Cludge, Goober Marines 3rd Company Captain and his demi-Company formation causing Magnus any more trouble than flicking a bit of lint off his robes is farcical.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:


You know what's worse than plastic Magnus the Red? Plastic Magnus the Red in Warhammer 40,000: The End Times. I got into 40k because I liked the setting. And I continue to like the setting despite the GW's very best efforts over the past decade to screw it up. Luckily there has been an inbuilt inertia to the thing that has prevented them from doing anything drastic. Until now.

Plastic Thousand Sons sound great. I just hope that they don't kill my interest in them by ruining the setting with boneheaded plot advancement in the meantime.

Hmm, seems I'm not the only one left who actually likes 40K for what it is afterall

Fantastic post have a +1

Logan Grimnar (a Space Marine) beating Magnus the Red (a primarch), who also has Demon Prince stacked on him?

That could definitely happen. On planet Opposite Day. Then again with Space Wolves SM +1, super special snow flake plot armor... Just imagine Santa Logan on his rage'n rudolph Doom Wolf Claw Wolf Frost Wolf sleigh of rage'n Frost Claw Wolfy-ness, wooping Magnus's butt.

All this Tzeentch stuff seems like a huge Release Event. The kind of thing you drop for summer or Christmas, like a big movie. Since they've missed summer are we thinking Christmas?

 Gamgee wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
This.... is a big shake up in the lore. How much do you want to bet Tau and all the other factions are on the brink of massive change?

I can't wait to see what happens to advance the Necrons and Dark Eldar. I had that crazy theory we'll see Slaanesh be defeated. Let's see if I'm right.

Don't know much about the DE, but my money is on a Silent King model for the Necrons. I would give him rules along the lines of "all Necron infantry within 18" of The Silent King gain Zealot".

All this talk about Thousand Sons? The Blood Ravens receiving an official model in DW:O? A new Dawn of War game later this yeah? I'm really thinking there is an excellent opportunity for some cross-promotion with a Codex: Blood Ravens.

Silent King would be cool. I would love to see Vect return with primarch level of power as well. As easy as it would be for my faction to design yet another suit I would really like to see a hero Tau unit. Farsight is probably the only possible candidate but the problem is they would really need to buff him to high heaven with upgrades ect.

Also to the people talking about Blood Ravens hell yes! I would be tempted to pick up maybe a small 500 points force of Space Magpies to model and paint. Can't leave my ravens hanging.

Spoiler:

See this is kind of the problem I have with the nu-40k, once you let the extraordinary into "normal" 40k then the extraordinary just becomes ordinary.

When Apoc first came out in 5th edition I was working at GW at the time. There was a big excitement for it. Basically it was touted at playing epic scale armies with 40k scaled models. We all built huge armies for it, got FW goodies (back when FW was still kind rare) and the first few games where kind cool. We soon figured out that Apoc was basically a unplayable mess. The shear size of the game basically ment that you got 2 maybe 3 turns off in a 8 hour game. The set up was the longest part of the game and due to the lack of room ( this is on a 10' x6' floorhammer game) it was basically move foward and take models off due to pie plates and D str weapons. It was a good idea but horribly implemented and was doomed to fail because the 40k game mechanics breakdown at that lvl. It's just WAY to complicated, there is way to many "special unit" rules. To many 'special snowflake' units. To many USR's at that scale.

That's the problem I've got with Apoc and basic 40k is now pretty much Apoc lite...

So now that the Imperium has their 'cool toys' everyone else needs their cool toys so the power creep keeps on going up and up, now we have daemon primarchs coming out? We just need a Emperor model with rules and its a fait accompli

Except that IS 40k and always has been. Back when the Dreadnought came out it wrecked gak and everyone had to have their own. I find this a natural and logical continuation.

However I would like to see "off" phases where we see armies expanded horizontally as well as vertically. Where we see new models pop up that offer new tactical choices or just really great modeling opportunities.

As it is now it's like a linear scale progression in size and it bothers me we don't see more armies getting filled out with options at different scales. A great example of what I mean is the Ghostkeel it was not trying to be the biggest thing ever and I love how they made it fit into the Riptide sized niche.

I would like to see all armies get more releases that fit into existing size niches. That way when they do bring something huge it means more rather than these small incremental power creep which is neat but not as satisfying. Since I'm so familiar with Tau I've posted many times how cool it would be to see a Tau Helicopter gunship style spacecraft or more auxiliaries. Do these have to be the most overpowered things ever? No, but I would like to see them to make my army look more interesting or throw me some new options. Tau need some more vehicles as well and I would like to see more Kroot and Vespid. This stuff is unlikely to ever happen since it seems only battlesuits are being made for Tau.

With Necrons I feel they really need some more interesting vehicles and stuff since looking at them its usually so infantry biased with maybe some arcs around. Dark Eldar need the evil equivalent to the Wraith Knight but balanced. DE just need a lot in general. Some armies have huge swathes of selections to pick from. I'm sometimes envious of the opportunities of Space Marine collectors and Chaos collectors since there is just so much variety. Where as Tau, DE, and Necrons (and many others) just don't have much.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Well, even Ahriman didn't know, so as most Codexs etc are written from an Imperial viewpoint, it would make sense that it wouldn't get mentioned.

It's more a case of GW proper ignoring whatever's happening in the BL books.

 Ghaz wrote:
Yes. However all they did for Skarbrand was make a new sprue and substitute it for one of the sprues in the Bloodthirster kit.

And put the price up. Don't forget that.

Couldn't they do Magnus up at multiple point levels?

A lower costed fragment of him, a more developed one that has grown in power, and a fullblown over 9000 Super Saiyajin Level 3 wrecking whole armies by himself level?

Get a bit more use out of a big centerpiece model that way?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Maybe it's a combo Magnus/LoC kit. Ultimately a kit with 2 builds has a lot going for it.

I'd bet that we will see something like the Bloodthirster/Skarbrand. One shared sprue with say wings and legs or something, then a box with that and Magnus sprue to make Magnus, and a Loc box with a sprue that can make a couple LoC variants, maybe a base Lord of Change and Fateweaver.

 Gamgee wrote:
I would like to see all armies get more releases that fit into existing size niches. That way when they do bring something huge it means more rather than these small incremental power creep which is neat but not as satisfying. Since I'm so familiar with Tau I've posted many times how cool it would be to see a Tau Helicopter gunship style spacecraft or more auxiliaries. Do these have to be the most overpowered things ever? No, but I would like to see them to make my army look more interesting or throw me some new options. Tau need some more vehicles as well and I would like to see more Kroot and Vespid. This stuff is unlikely to ever happen since it seems only battlesuits are being made for Tau.

I would love a proper 'Ardboyz box for my Orks, similar to the AoS 'Ardboyz. I also wouldn't mind seeing a power-armoured Marine sniper unit, although I'll probably be shouted down as being greedy since Marines have a trillion kits and they only need two and I'm a fething donkey-cave and how dare I and such.

 Lord Corellia wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
I would like to see all armies get more releases that fit into existing size niches. That way when they do bring something huge it means more rather than these small incremental power creep which is neat but not as satisfying. Since I'm so familiar with Tau I've posted many times how cool it would be to see a Tau Helicopter gunship style spacecraft or more auxiliaries. Do these have to be the most overpowered things ever? No, but I would like to see them to make my army look more interesting or throw me some new options. Tau need some more vehicles as well and I would like to see more Kroot and Vespid. This stuff is unlikely to ever happen since it seems only battlesuits are being made for Tau.

I would love a proper 'Ardboyz box for my Orks, similar to the AoS 'Ardboyz. I also wouldn't mind seeing a power-armoured Marine sniper unit, although I'll probably be shouted down as being greedy since Marines have a trillion kits and they only need two and I'm a fething donkey-cave and how dare I and such.

Boo! Shout! Boo!

Besides, Marines need their Techmarines in plastic- Clampack with a servo arm, box with servo harness and conversion beamer plus 4 servitors with options, and Thunderfire/Rapier kit in plastic. And a proper Honor Guard kit as well.

It is about time GW evolved the stagnant state of 40k. New models are always welcome, especially since they keep knocking it out of the park with this crazy kits.

Enough talk about the fabricated Blood Ravens chapter. The RELICTORS, did it first, relic is where they get their name, and they have caused such a problem they are constantly being hunted by shady Inquisitors, all the while hunting for more relics.. They even disobeyed Dante in the war of armageddon and are only interested in aiding others if there is a possibility of relics being looted from the area.

Pariah-Miniatures wrote:
It is about time GW evolved the stagnant state of 40k. New models are always welcome, especially since they keep knocking it out of the park with this crazy kits.

Enough talk about the fabricated Blood Ravens chapter. The RELICTORS, did it first, relic is where they get their name, and they have caused such a problem they are constantly being hunted by shady Inquisitors, all the while hunting for more relics.. They even disobeyed Dante in the war of armageddon and are only interested in aiding others if there is a possibility of relics being looted from the area.

They don't have the style though. Which is what makes the Blud Revens so much more memorable.

I imagine if Magnus gets laid low in the Space Wolf book, it will be due to Azrael and Grimnar putting aside their differences and teaming up to take him down, perhaps with some help by the Grey Knights.

Or Draigo will pop out of the warp, give Magnus a noogie, carve Leman Russes name into Magnus' Heart, then moonwalk back into the warp.

 Gamgee wrote:

Pariah-Miniatures wrote:
It is about time GW evolved the stagnant state of 40k. New models are always welcome, especially since they keep knocking it out of the park with this crazy kits.

Enough talk about the fabricated Blood Ravens chapter. The RELICTORS, did it first, relic is where they get their name, and they have caused such a problem they are constantly being hunted by shady Inquisitors, all the while hunting for more relics.. They even disobeyed Dante in the war of armageddon and are only interested in aiding others if there is a possibility of relics being looted from the area.

They don't have the style though. Which is what makes the Blud Revens so much more memorable.

They even had a guy in DW overkill. Actual model acknowledgement. They are on a roll!
Would be sweet if GW really made those hints of their secret thousand sons origin part of this. Could be a nice Darth Vader moment.

It wouldn't really be that much of a stretch to include the Blood Ravens. The Dark Angels showed up with multiple Chapters, so clearly this is bigger than the Wolves and their immediate rivals. It's a good opportunity to put some obscure/unknown Chapters in the limelight (like Armageddon and Badab did), and a reasonable way to have Blood Raven/Thousand Son interaction, even if minor.

 Gamgee wrote:

With Necrons I feel they really need some more interesting vehicles and stuff since looking at them its usually so infantry biased with maybe some arcs around. Dark Eldar need the evil equivalent to the Wraith Knight but balanced. DE just need a lot in general. Some armies have huge swathes of selections to pick from. I'm sometimes envious of the opportunities of Space Marine collectors and Chaos collectors since there is just so much variety. Where as Tau, DE, and Necrons (and many others) just don't have much.

HAHAHA! Really? You're actually jealous of the single oldest & most woefully incomplete model line in the entire game!? (Sisters not withstanding)

I mean, I get that we all want more toys, but c'mon, trying to say that Chaos gets actual support, when 15+ years on and we're still waiting for plastic autocannons & missile launchers!?
If you're going to be jealous of someone, at least be jealous of an army that's had more than a paltry 4 kits over the past 9 years.


Hopefully Fenris Part II is the long overdue start to the fabled "Year of Chaos", and we can finally get a model line that isn't perpetually stuck in the early 2000's... Hopefully we can get a good solid 8-12 months of on-off releases, with new kits for;
- basic Chaos Marines
- Terminators
- Havocs
- Chosen
- Berserkers
- Noise Marines
- Plaguemarines
- Oblits/Muties combo kit
- Cultists
- Bikers
- updated Rhino
- updated Land Raider w/new Chaos only variant

And for the Daemon side, throw in at least one more of the Greater Daemons, if not both.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
In defence of that concept, the Ahriman BL series does outline a plausible reason (for 40K) why a daemon Magnus could be present on a battlefield and not just pull off a hand wave victory.

Could you spoiler tag that reason? Because to work often enough as an excuse for seeing Magnus on as regular a basis as a Knight it would have to be Handwavium of a purity never before seen by mankind

Spoiler:

Magnus is fragmented, as a consequence of defying/pissing off Tzeentch (it's been a while, my memory of the details is hazy.) Basically the whole of the series is Ahriman being manipulated by Magnus into allowing him to become whole again. The shards are scattered throughout space and time and vary in capability, making it plausible that a Magnus as opposed to the Magnus could turn up on a 40K battlefield. Perhaps not with sufficient regularity to match the ubiquity of an IK, but would support a lower power level than historically.

 Kanluwen wrote:
To be fair, it's always been an issue with this whole "X shouldn't be as common on the battlefield as it is" when it comes down to the players.

Players* want to use the cool rare stuff, not the crummy common stuff.

*Some players. A fair few of us would have much preferred "cool rare stuff" stayed in the various Specialist Games and 40K supplements where they belonged, so we could actually play the battles we read about in the fluff at this sort of scale without shovelling handfuls of infantry off the table every turn as they're utterly slaughtered by the latest giant walker kit or megatank.

I chuckled, Gamgee likes his Tau.

I think you could leave the terminators alone, and they reboxed the marines so despite being a bit dated they still do the job. I think havos and chosen would be a combo kit, same with oblits/muties so honestly the only major kits would be the 4 cults. I'd say try to combo them in pairs but I am not sure it is possible which is probably why it hasn't occurred. Maybe they will just do plastic upgrades like the sprues they did for blood angles space wolves etc. Give you a god specific champion and enough shoulder pads and gear to make a squad. To me that is the most cost effective approach, I honestly can never see them making 4 unique kits for each cult. Same reason eldar still don't have plastic aspects, there are just too many unique elements and they can't add that many SkU's to the shelves.