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 jreilly89 wrote:

 matphat wrote:

 Captain_Control wrote:
Perfect timing for a ork starter collection to be released! that was the next army I wanted to play!

My only advice as an Ork player right now is wait for the next codex before you play a game. It's a *fun army, but you wont be winning many games unless your local meta is "all fluff, all the time".

This doesn't mean don't build an Ork army, they are, in my opinion, the most fun to build and paint, but damn if it's not frustrating to be shot off the board top of round two and having to put away 200 models before they did anything.

I

I wouldn't go that far. I still play Orks and have a blast, and almost tabled a Necron player to boot. You just have to know what is good and what's total trash, as well as make few mistakes, as Orks are very unforgiving.

I will definitely wait for the next codex, thanks for the advice. I plan on only playing orks with friends.

 Captain_Control wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 matphat wrote:

 Captain_Control wrote:
Perfect timing for a ork starter collection to be released! that was the next army I wanted to play!

My only advice as an Ork player right now is wait for the next codex before you play a game. It's a *fun army, but you wont be winning many games unless your local meta is "all fluff, all the time".

This doesn't mean don't build an Ork army, they are, in my opinion, the most fun to build and paint, but damn if it's not frustrating to be shot off the board top of round two and having to put away 200 models before they did anything.

I

I wouldn't go that far. I still play Orks and have a blast, and almost tabled a Necron player to boot. You just have to know what is good and what's total trash, as well as make few mistakes, as Orks are very unforgiving.

I will definitely wait for the next codex, thanks for the advice. I plan on only playing orks with friends.

Then I wouldn't really wait. Given this new supplement, we might not get the Ork codex for a while, which you need to use the Ghazghkull supplement. If you're only playing friends and they don't bring tourney level lists, you should be fine.

If you start now you have plenty of time for building, konvertin' and painting before the next codex drops. And in the meantime play small, friendly, fluffy battles with your growing horde.

Get some plasticard and bring out the bitz box - there is always something to work on with Orks.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Captain_Control wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 matphat wrote:

 Captain_Control wrote:
Perfect timing for a ork starter collection to be released! that was the next army I wanted to play!

My only advice as an Ork player right now is wait for the next codex before you play a game. It's a *fun army, but you wont be winning many games unless your local meta is "all fluff, all the time".

This doesn't mean don't build an Ork army, they are, in my opinion, the most fun to build and paint, but damn if it's not frustrating to be shot off the board top of round two and having to put away 200 models before they did anything.

I

I wouldn't go that far. I still play Orks and have a blast, and almost tabled a Necron player to boot. You just have to know what is good and what's total trash, as well as make few mistakes, as Orks are very unforgiving.

I will definitely wait for the next codex, thanks for the advice. I plan on only playing orks with friends.

Then I wouldn't really wait. Given this new supplement, we might not get the Ork codex for a while, which you need to use the Ghazghkull supplement. If you're only playing friends and they don't bring tourney level lists, you should be fine.

I'm begining to wonder if GW is even going to do full codex releases any more. I mean, what was the last book that actually got "redone", where points changes, etc. were made? Marines? Tau was a reprint with formations added via campaign book. Same with Guard, Wolves, Demons, and now its looking like Orks too. I think it may be a long time before we see a "new" codex for any faction.

Eldar probaly was it? Or DAs?
But overall I agree.

Oh wow, a redo of the crappy ork suppliment, thats fairly new already, with 3 worthless formations in it nobody will run.

How will I keep my money in my wallet.

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:

I'm begining to wonder if GW is even going to do full codex releases any more. I mean, what was the last book that actually got "redone", where points changes, etc. were made? Marines? Tau was a reprint with formations added via campaign book. Same with Guard, Wolves, Demons, and now its looking like Orks too. I think it may be a long time before we see a "new" codex for any faction.

Hopefully next year when Chaos Marines come up, we get a proper re-do.
Not saying that Orks/Bugs/Guard/DE don't need likewise, but overall, at least they function on a basic, friendly level. Chaos Marines struggle even at that!

I do think however that with the right Orkcurion/Bugcurion/etc... style bonuses, most of the other Xenos armies would be decently well off... Not Eldar/Tau/Gladius levels of silly, but still able to compete.
Likewise, while a few big issues are still needing to be addressed, by just sheer 'power play' alone, the new Daemoncurion looks to have some really, really nasty stuff going in it's favour. (hello Slaanesh aux formation!! )

Dark Eldar could really use an overhaul of both their HQ's (return some of those lost SC's please), and a complete re-working of Wyches/Bloodbrides. That plus their super detachment would probably suffice to bring them up to a relatively decent level. (and move all the Haemonculus Covens stuff into the main codex as well!)

The only other army that really is begging for an outright codex re-do is the Mechanicus/Skittari who need to be bundled together under the same cover at this point. (and a transport option wouldn't hurt either!)


Now if this is indeed the way that GW is going to do the 'codex' updates, I do really hope that we at least see a cheaper shoftback re-printing of the old codex that collects the newer campaign/WD/DLC/etc... added contents under one cover!

....so they are updating Waagh Gazxghkull, which was already 7th ed? That seems a bit odd as Nids, Chaos and Guard are still on their 6th ed codexes.

So what are they gonna do? Just stick all the Ork formations in the same book now?

 Captain_Control wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 matphat wrote:

 Captain_Control wrote:
Perfect timing for a ork starter collection to be released! that was the next army I wanted to play!

My only advice as an Ork player right now is wait for the next codex before you play a game. It's a *fun army, but you wont be winning many games unless your local meta is "all fluff, all the time".

This doesn't mean don't build an Ork army, they are, in my opinion, the most fun to build and paint, but damn if it's not frustrating to be shot off the board top of round two and having to put away 200 models before they did anything.

I

I wouldn't go that far. I still play Orks and have a blast, and almost tabled a Necron player to boot. You just have to know what is good and what's total trash, as well as make few mistakes, as Orks are very unforgiving.

I will definitely wait for the next codex, thanks for the advice. I plan on only playing orks with friends.

If all your games are friendly, and the meta is friends playing for fun, then ignore what I said.

My advice is for if you are planning on playing in a store, or trying to play local tourneys.

Also, no need to actually BUY the codex. I'm sure someone would be happy to LOAN you one.

Either which way, don't wait till later to start your army since Orks take a long while to get to table top quality as they are a horde army.

It's taken me five years to get 3000 points done to my personal standard.

Man, they must have had a lot of that drone-mounted Ethereal leftover from that stupidly expensive box he originally came in, now he's in the Start Collecting box and the Command bundle. Its like GW is saying 'Take this Ethereal. Please!'

Edit: Checked the price, it is exactly the same price as buying the Crisis Commander by himself. So it is literally a buy-one-get-one deal, albeit the get-one is a single infantry-size monopose character and the buy-one is a much-larger multipart kit, so its definitely not a huge deal ...

Wolf Lord Balrog wrote:
Man, they must have had a lot of that drone-mounted Ethereal leftover from that stupidly expensive box he originally came in, now he's in the Start Collecting box and the Command bundle. Its like GW is saying 'Take this Ethereal. Please!'

Edit: Checked the price, it is exactly the same price as buying the Crisis Commander by himself. So it is literally a buy-one-get-one deal, albeit the get-one is a single infantry-size monopose character and the buy-one is a much-larger multipart kit, so its definitely not a huge deal ...

And yet they never release the Ethereal on his own. I might pick this set up for the hell of it (I don't play Tau, but I do like some of their models).

Damn. It isn't looking like it's going to be an Ork'turion.
It only includes 3 old formations and 3 new formations.

Looking at the Fenris release...
Space Wolves got 7 new Commands, 2 new Cores, 6 new Aux.
Chaos got 1 new Command, 4 new Core, 5 new Aux.

At 3 old and 3 new, the numbers just aren't looking like it's going to be an Ork'turion. :"(
Although doubtful, hope I'm wrong. Too bad...

 matphat wrote:

 Captain_Control wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 matphat wrote:

 Captain_Control wrote:
Perfect timing for a ork starter collection to be released! that was the next army I wanted to play!

My only advice as an Ork player right now is wait for the next codex before you play a game. It's a *fun army, but you wont be winning many games unless your local meta is "all fluff, all the time".

This doesn't mean don't build an Ork army, they are, in my opinion, the most fun to build and paint, but damn if it's not frustrating to be shot off the board top of round two and having to put away 200 models before they did anything.

I

I wouldn't go that far. I still play Orks and have a blast, and almost tabled a Necron player to boot. You just have to know what is good and what's total trash, as well as make few mistakes, as Orks are very unforgiving.

I will definitely wait for the next codex, thanks for the advice. I plan on only playing orks with friends.

If all your games are friendly, and the meta is friends playing for fun, then ignore what I said.

My advice is for if you are planning on playing in a store, or trying to play local tourneys.

Also, no need to actually BUY the codex. I'm sure someone would be happy to LOAN you one.

Either which way, don't wait till later to start your army since Orks take a long while to get to table top quality as they are a horde army.

It's taken me five years to get 3000 points done to my personal standard.

What are you playing against that you struggle with? I don't play as much against optimized armies, but for me the orks are still fun to play and I win a lot. The orks are best at objective games, killpoints not so much.

Rasko wrote:
Damn. It isn't looking like it's going to be an Ork'turion.
It only includes 3 old formations and 3 new formations.

Looking at the Fenris release...
Space Wolves got 7 new Commands, 2 new Cores, 6 new Aux.
Chaos got 1 new Command, 4 new Core, 5 new Aux.

At 3 old and 3 new, the numbers just aren't looking like it's going to be an Ork'turion. :"(
Although doubtful, hope I'm wrong. Too bad...

It is still going to have all of the original Ghaz formations. And if one of the formations is the DecuriOrk, another is the core formation to go with it, they could easily make it work with the Ghaz formations as the Aux formations.

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:

I'm begining to wonder if GW is even going to do full codex releases any more. I mean, what was the last book that actually got "redone", where points changes, etc. were made? Marines? Tau was a reprint with formations added via campaign book. Same with Guard, Wolves, Demons, and now its looking like Orks too. I think it may be a long time before we see a "new" codex for any faction.

I'm starting to wonder if this is the sign of a mor radical revamp of 40k being in the works; minor tinkering with all of the armies to get them at roughly the same level / style of play and keep releases ticking over, giving them time to work on something new.

 Orock wrote:
Oh wow, a redo of the crappy ork suppliment, thats fairly new already, with 3 worthless formations in it nobody will run.

How will I keep my money in my wallet.

I run formations from Ghazghkull supplement and have fun doing it.

Even if an ork decurion is introduced in the new book, what formations do we have that can be used for it? We lack good, cheap core formations from which to build an army. Except for the green tide,and the ork warband, none of our current formations makes extensive use of our troop choices. We also lack command formations with the only potential one that I can think of being Council of the Waaagh!

I fear that unless the three new formations deliver some good, cheap core choices, a decurion will be useless for non-greentide players.

 Jadenim wrote:

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:

I'm begining to wonder if GW is even going to do full codex releases any more. I mean, what was the last book that actually got "redone", where points changes, etc. were made? Marines? Tau was a reprint with formations added via campaign book. Same with Guard, Wolves, Demons, and now its looking like Orks too. I think it may be a long time before we see a "new" codex for any faction.

I'm starting to wonder if this is the sign of a mor radical revamp of 40k being in the works; minor tinkering with all of the armies to get them at roughly the same level / style of play and keep releases ticking over, giving them time to work on something new.

It's going to take more than minor tinkering to get many armies up to even shouting distance of say Marines, Tau, Eldar, Necrons. CSM, Orks, Dark Eldar, Nids all need major reworks, IG and Daemons need more flexible/scalable formations than they got, and Sisters, AdMech, Harlequins, Grey Knights are still more marginal factions right now.

 the Signless wrote:
Even if an ork decurion is introduced in the new book, what formations do we have that can be used for it? We lack good, cheap core formations from which to build an army. Except for the green tide,and the ork warband, none of our current formations makes extensive use of our troop choices. We also lack command formations with the only potential one that I can think of being Council of the Waaagh!

I fear that unless the three new formations deliver some good, cheap core choices, a decurion will be useless for non-greentide players.

Mogroks Bossboys in Red Waaagh would work, but you're correct. Most Ork formations would be Auxiliary choices, we dont have a good Core choice.

If the one unknown formation is something using boyz we could get an orcurion. But chaces are extremely low.

 the Signless wrote:
Even if an ork decurion is introduced in the new book, what formations do we have that can be used for it? We lack good, cheap core formations from which to build an army. Except for the green tide,and the ork warband, none of our current formations makes extensive use of our troop choices. We also lack command formations with the only potential one that I can think of being Council of the Waaagh!

I fear that unless the three new formations deliver some good, cheap core choices, a decurion will be useless for non-greentide players.

Haha! Good cheap core choices....haha! Did you look at the SW cores? The better ones need 10+ powerarmored units to fulfill....good look squezing in one thr better auxiliaries in there at 1850 points. If there is an orkurion, it probablly will have an insane body count similiar to the Cadia formation. Somehow I think GW wants us to play 3000 points as default

Rasko wrote:
Damn. It isn't looking like it's going to be an Ork'turion.
It only includes 3 old formations and 3 new formations.

Looking at the Fenris release...
Space Wolves got 7 new Commands, 2 new Cores, 6 new Aux.
Chaos got 1 new Command, 4 new Core, 5 new Aux.

At 3 old and 3 new, the numbers just aren't looking like it's going to be an Ork'turion. :"(
Although doubtful, hope I'm wrong. Too bad...

I'm at least hoping when they say 3 new formations one of them is decurion-ish and that our other formations are inside it. Mogroks boss boys and the ghazghkull one would be command. the formation in the main codex is very similar to the new daemon ones where they have to take 6-9 troop choices.

I'm getting my hopes up though


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ragnar69 wrote:

 the Signless wrote:
Even if an ork decurion is introduced in the new book, what formations do we have that can be used for it? We lack good, cheap core formations from which to build an army. Except for the green tide,and the ork warband, none of our current formations makes extensive use of our troop choices. We also lack command formations with the only potential one that I can think of being Council of the Waaagh!

I fear that unless the three new formations deliver some good, cheap core choices, a decurion will be useless for non-greentide players.

Haha! Good cheap core choices....haha! Did you look at the SW cores? The better ones need 10+ powerarmored units to fulfill....good look squezing in one thr better auxiliaries in there at 1850 points. If there is an orkurion, it probablly will have an insane body count similiar to the Cadia formation. Somehow I think GW wants us to play 3000 points as default

This is a given. I would go so far to say they want it to be 3k minimum. and push for 5k. This isn't hard but it just takes a while.

Ragnar69 wrote:

 the Signless wrote:
Even if an ork decurion is introduced in the new book, what formations do we have that can be used for it? We lack good, cheap core formations from which to build an army. Except for the green tide,and the ork warband, none of our current formations makes extensive use of our troop choices. We also lack command formations with the only potential one that I can think of being Council of the Waaagh!

I fear that unless the three new formations deliver some good, cheap core choices, a decurion will be useless for non-greentide players.

Haha! Good cheap core choices....haha! Did you look at the SW cores? The better ones need 10+ powerarmored units to fulfill....good look squezing in one of the better auxiliaries in there at 1850 points.

1850 points is such a randomly arbitrary points cost that I will never understand why people play it unless they're specifically preparing for a tournament.

If there is an orkurion, it probablly will have an insane body count similiar to the Cadia formation. Somehow I think GW wants us to play 3000 points as default

If there's an Orkcurion, unless they revise Boyz Squads to always be their maximum number of Boyz, it still won't have as high of a body count as the Cadia formation going purely infantry.

I'd hate the game going to 3k as standard. 2k takes long enough tI'm to play, expecially with an horde army. I prefer 1500 because it's not super long.

Anyone else kinda wish they made an alternate ork supplement, evil suns, or deathskulls would have been great. Deathskulls would have allowed looting, and evil suns would have allowed them to sell more ork vechicles.

Nothing's stopping you from looting things right now.

You don't get the rules of those looted vehicles. That's all.

Fullork12 wrote:
I'd hate the game going to 3k as standard. 2k takes long enough tI'm to play, expecially with an horde army. I prefer 1500 because it's not super long.

Anyone else kinda wish they made an alternate ork supplement, evil suns, or deathskulls would have been great. Deathskulls would have allowed looting, and evil suns would have allowed them to sell more ork vechicles.

Here's the thing. when both people know almost 100% of the rules the games go quicker as well as having your list ready and not worrying too much about breaks and chitchatting on the side. My brother and I played a 4k game in 3 hours. Granted, we know what we're doing, had our lists ready and had a ton of deaths which helped speed the game along. This game was BA vs Orks.

With the new decurions adding what I consider a matryoshka of rules it gets harder to remember everything and does slow the game down. You have the units rules, inside the formation rules, inside the decurion rules. It gets too complicated at this point.

 matphat wrote:


If all your games are friendly, and the meta is friends playing for fun, then ignore what I said.

My advice is for if you are planning on playing in a store, or trying to play local tourneys.

Also, no need to actually BUY the codex. I'm sure someone would be happy to LOAN you one.

Either which way, don't wait till later to start your army since Orks take a long while to get to table top quality as they are a horde army.

It's taken me five years to get 3000 points done to my personal standard.

good point, collecting over time is always the best option.

 Kirasu wrote:
Spend more money on books! I mean it's cool they got an update.. but damn, this seems to be GW's new strategy and people love throwing money at books for some odd reason.

Look, I know it looks like a cheap move, but really if this came from a place of passion then there's nothing to complain about. This is going to be one of two things: A free errata and/or expansion to the existing versions that you're getting for free, or that + the hardbacks on the shelves being updated with that information free, too. This really isn't a bad thing.

mhalko1 wrote:

Fullork12 wrote:
I'd hate the game going to 3k as standard. 2k takes long enough tI'm to play, expecially with an horde army. I prefer 1500 because it's not super long.

Anyone else kinda wish they made an alternate ork supplement, evil suns, or deathskulls would have been great. Deathskulls would have allowed looting, and evil suns would have allowed them to sell more ork vechicles.

Here's the thing. when both people know almost 100% of the rules the games go quicker as well as having your list ready and not worrying too much about breaks and chitchatting on the side. My brother and I played a 4k game in 3 hours. Granted, we know what we're doing, had our lists ready and had a ton of deaths which helped speed the game along. This game was BA vs Orks.

With the new decurions adding what I consider a matryoshka of rules it gets harder to remember everything and does slow the game down. You have the units rules, inside the formation rules, inside the decurion rules. It gets too complicated at this point.

Good point. I just don't see that as a norm.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Quarterdime wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Spend more money on books! I mean it's cool they got an update.. but damn, this seems to be GW's new strategy and people love throwing money at books for some odd reason.

Look, I know it looks like a cheap move, but really if this came from a place of passion then there's nothing to complain about. This is going to be one of two things: A free errata and/or expansion to the existing versions that you're getting for free, or that + the hardbacks on the shelves being updated with that information free, too. This really isn't a bad thing.

if they release the changes free, then sure, but otherwise it is a bad thing to rerelease something your selling with barely any changes. They should have just made a whole new supplement instead.

 Quarterdime wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Spend more money on books! I mean it's cool they got an update.. but damn, this seems to be GW's new strategy and people love throwing money at books for some odd reason.

Look, I know it looks like a cheap move, but really if this came from a place of passion then there's nothing to complain about. This is going to be one of two things: A free errata and/or expansion to the existing versions that you're getting for free, or that + the hardbacks on the shelves being updated with that information free, too. This really isn't a bad thing.

Doesn't look like it's coming from a place of passion. Most of the formations are already existing in other formats, Red Tide and Ghazghkull book. Most of those formations aren't very good, either.

I'd love to see an Ork product designed with passion, but it's not 5th edition any more, so I don't think I can use the Kelly book.

But if they have one good Ork boy formation (Orkurion?) in this book, I'll be happy.