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 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Space marines easily. Oh, another mureen player with almost the same min/max setup, how shocking.

Define that set up?

If i had to make a guess he is talking about lots of min squads in free vehicles.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Space marines easily. Oh, another mureen player with almost the same min/max setup, how shocking.

Define that set up?

If i had to make a guess he is talking about lots of min squads in free vehicles.

I did that once in a 3000 point doubles game... needless to say, it isn't worth it unless you have a lot of assault cannon razorbacks

Normally i'd say Necrons, but with them i know going in i am going to lose.
Personally i hate to face the tyranids. It just seems like they're just impossible to wipe off the board. Though that could be because i play DE

Have to say that Tau are the most annoying to play against. The just pick up bucket loads of dice at Str7 or Str5 and get re-rolls and ignores cover and intercept and skyfire.

Really boring to play against.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Space marines easily. Oh, another mureen player with almost the same min/max setup, how shocking.

What set up?

Traditio wrote:

 GimbleMuggernaught wrote:
I've voted for Space Marines for 3 major reasons. ATSKNF, Chapter Tactics, and Grav. My god do I hate grav spam. Virtually everything is vulnerable to it and anything that's not can just be shredded by regular firepower instead. ATSKNF is a terrible rule that all but makes marines immune to morale and a few special rules in the game. Really it's better fearless that all marines get for free.

ATSKNF is actually a weaker version of fearless. It 1. lets marines automatically regroup, 2. allows marines to ignore fear and 3. and prevents marines from being "run over" or whatever it's called after fleeing from close combat.

And marines don't get it for free. The base tactical marine is 14 points per model.

Then you get chapter tactics, again for free

Sure. If you want to call 14 points or more per model "free."

that make your troopers much better, and sometimes can transfer over to your other marines/guardsmen/inquisitors/assassins that you took as allies or a formation by just attaching a cheap character to them. I can't think of any instances right off hand where that would happen. Maybe it's because so many people have marine armies that they just don't seem to notice how crazy some of the stuff they get is, but I just find it totally annoying.

What army do you play?

14 points is free enough. For 10 points I get a Renegade Veteran with a Krieg Guardsman statline, worse LD on average, and no special rules. I'm paying more for a Guardsman with worse ruies. In an army whose selling point is that thy can bring masses of troops. I would much rather have 10 Space Marines than 14 Renegade Veterans, in a straight measure of unit quality

Harlequins, purely because they don't hit hard enough and then I feel like I'm being a jerk taking out his glass cannon

MIni MIehm wrote:

Traditio wrote:

 GimbleMuggernaught wrote:
I've voted for Space Marines for 3 major reasons. ATSKNF, Chapter Tactics, and Grav. My god do I hate grav spam. Virtually everything is vulnerable to it and anything that's not can just be shredded by regular firepower instead. ATSKNF is a terrible rule that all but makes marines immune to morale and a few special rules in the game. Really it's better fearless that all marines get for free.

ATSKNF is actually a weaker version of fearless. It 1. lets marines automatically regroup, 2. allows marines to ignore fear and 3. and prevents marines from being "run over" or whatever it's called after fleeing from close combat.

And marines don't get it for free. The base tactical marine is 14 points per model.

Then you get chapter tactics, again for free

Sure. If you want to call 14 points or more per model "free."

that make your troopers much better, and sometimes can transfer over to your other marines/guardsmen/inquisitors/assassins that you took as allies or a formation by just attaching a cheap character to them. I can't think of any instances right off hand where that would happen. Maybe it's because so many people have marine armies that they just don't seem to notice how crazy some of the stuff they get is, but I just find it totally annoying.

What army do you play?

14 points is free enough. For 10 points I get a Renegade Veteran with a Krieg Guardsman statline, worse LD on average, and no special rules. I'm paying more for a Guardsman with worse ruies. In an army whose selling point is that thy can bring masses of troops. I would much rather have 10 Space Marines than 14 Renegade Veterans, in a straight measure of unit quality

Don't Renegades essentially come back to life?

 Spyro_Killer wrote:
Harlequins, purely because they don't hit hard enough and then I feel like I'm being a jerk taking out his glass cannon

Have to agree. Short of Allies and being the best general making absolutely no mistakes, Harlequins are super underwhelming. I love their look but I feel like they die to a stiff breeze and do almost no damage, unless they get in to CC and hit first.

Tau. Most boring army. Usually also most boring players. No strategy, ignores everything. Players usually want a lot of cover, since with tau it only benefits them. Shut that down real quick. Oh you're tau? So this little tree in the center, aaand that's it.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Tau. Most boring army. Usually also most boring players. No strategy, ignores everything. Players usually want a lot of cover, since with tau it only benefits them. Shut that down real quick. Oh you're tau? So this little tree in the center, aaand that's it.

That would be the world's second most boring map to play on. (the most boring one being, remove the tree )

You would actually be better off doing the reverse and going ultra-urban: pack the table in so tight with terrain that nothing bigger than a Crisis suit can move No riptides, no stormsurges, no ghostkeels! And, ignore cover means nothing if there's no LoS because your longest firing lanes are less than 18".

They'll shoot with those missiles that don't need LOS.

I just realised that the Tau have no Barrage weapons, too, or none that I've heard of, interesting.

 Quickjager wrote:

MIni MIehm wrote:

Traditio wrote:

 GimbleMuggernaught wrote:
I've voted for Space Marines for 3 major reasons. ATSKNF, Chapter Tactics, and Grav. My god do I hate grav spam. Virtually everything is vulnerable to it and anything that's not can just be shredded by regular firepower instead. ATSKNF is a terrible rule that all but makes marines immune to morale and a few special rules in the game. Really it's better fearless that all marines get for free.

ATSKNF is actually a weaker version of fearless. It 1. lets marines automatically regroup, 2. allows marines to ignore fear and 3. and prevents marines from being "run over" or whatever it's called after fleeing from close combat.

And marines don't get it for free. The base tactical marine is 14 points per model.

Then you get chapter tactics, again for free

Sure. If you want to call 14 points or more per model "free."

that make your troopers much better, and sometimes can transfer over to your other marines/guardsmen/inquisitors/assassins that you took as allies or a formation by just attaching a cheap character to them. I can't think of any instances right off hand where that would happen. Maybe it's because so many people have marine armies that they just don't seem to notice how crazy some of the stuff they get is, but I just find it totally annoying.

What army do you play?

14 points is free enough. For 10 points I get a Renegade Veteran with a Krieg Guardsman statline, worse LD on average, and no special rules. I'm paying more for a Guardsman with worse ruies. In an army whose selling point is that thy can bring masses of troops. I would much rather have 10 Space Marines than 14 Renegade Veterans, in a straight measure of unit quality

Don't Renegades essentially come back to life?

Only if you take a detachment that is basically only troop choices (and the respawning troops don't do any damage or have ObSec)

So what is it called when you start an army that you say you hate playing against?

I don't like how space marines look and in my local GW they're poular

 Talys wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Tau. Most boring army. Usually also most boring players. No strategy, ignores everything. Players usually want a lot of cover, since with tau it only benefits them. Shut that down real quick. Oh you're tau? So this little tree in the center, aaand that's it.

That would be the world's second most boring map to play on. (the most boring one being, remove the tree )

You would actually be better off doing the reverse and going ultra-urban: pack the table in so tight with terrain that nothing bigger than a Crisis suit can move No riptides, no stormsurges, no ghostkeels! And, ignore cover means nothing if there's no LoS because your longest firing lanes are less than 18".

I'm one of those Tau who can play well on either. Though if I could I would take the empty field please.

I don't mind most armies, however there are certain units that just are stressful.

Eldar warp spiders.
Wraiths with re animation.
DA bikes with re-rollable jink.

Any army that can make itself bigger than the agreed point limit. I have a friend that plays daemons. At the start of the game he's bringing in another 2 yo 3 units. Sometimes a daemon prince. And what makes it worse is I don't list tailor. I bring a list and then find out who I'm playing. But when he starts summoning he can whichever unit he needs to handle a task.

Did somebody just say how awesome Combat Squads was?

 Quickjager wrote:

MIni MIehm wrote:

Traditio wrote:

 GimbleMuggernaught wrote:
I've voted for Space Marines for 3 major reasons. ATSKNF, Chapter Tactics, and Grav. My god do I hate grav spam. Virtually everything is vulnerable to it and anything that's not can just be shredded by regular firepower instead. ATSKNF is a terrible rule that all but makes marines immune to morale and a few special rules in the game. Really it's better fearless that all marines get for free.

ATSKNF is actually a weaker version of fearless. It 1. lets marines automatically regroup, 2. allows marines to ignore fear and 3. and prevents marines from being "run over" or whatever it's called after fleeing from close combat.

And marines don't get it for free. The base tactical marine is 14 points per model.

Then you get chapter tactics, again for free

Sure. If you want to call 14 points or more per model "free."

that make your troopers much better, and sometimes can transfer over to your other marines/guardsmen/inquisitors/assassins that you took as allies or a formation by just attaching a cheap character to them. I can't think of any instances right off hand where that would happen. Maybe it's because so many people have marine armies that they just don't seem to notice how crazy some of the stuff they get is, but I just find it totally annoying.

What army do you play?

14 points is free enough. For 10 points I get a Renegade Veteran with a Krieg Guardsman statline, worse LD on average, and no special rules. I'm paying more for a Guardsman with worse ruies. In an army whose selling point is that thy can bring masses of troops. I would much rather have 10 Space Marines than 14 Renegade Veterans, in a straight measure of unit quality

Don't Renegades essentially come back to life?

Only if I take a specific detatchment, with a specific warlord (who is still super squishy) with a troop tax of at least 90 models, and probably more like 180 models.

I run a Purge detatchment with an Ordnance Tyrant as my Warlord, giving me artillery in all of my slots. I get 6 Elites, 2 of which are mandatory, 8 troops, 4 HS, and no FA. I usually fill my elites slots with Medusas and Earthshaker carriages, and then mix my troops between quad launchers and infantry platoons, which are WS/BS2 with a human statline and no armor save, unless I spend more points to bring them up to Guardsman stats. This army works fairly well in maelstrom games by lmiting movement (any area under one of my blast templates becomes dangerous terrain for the turn) and killing things with my high Str low AP artillery pieces in my elites slots. Combined with 55 point Chimeras, my army has a decent mix of mobility and firepower. It's just really bad if things turn sideways and I either lose my transports early, or my artillery can't perform to pin the enemy in place long enough for me to do my thing.

Being able to take a unit of CSMs, for about 10 points each plus options, as an elites choice would be a big boost to my army, and go a long way towards giving me some more staying power.

Also, CSMs should only be about 10 points as currently written. The Marine statline isn't worth 13.

 Bobthehero wrote:
They'll shoot with those missiles that don't need LOS.

I just realised that the Tau have no Barrage weapons, too, or none that I've heard of, interesting.

We have one, it's 18" of a large blast bolter shot, so it's hardly a highlight.

And "those missiles that don't need LOS" are mere S5Ap5 guns mounted as secondary weapons on heavy platforms (broadside, riptides, tanks) so if that's all they shoot, you are in a good spot.

 Lolcanoe wrote:
So what is it called when you start an army that you say you hate playing against?

I dunno, guess I'll find out. Just picked up a few kits of Eldar and the codex. Rip me.

This is probably a non valid point, but it's usually the player I'm up against rather than the army they field that bothers me. I can have an enjoyable game against a powerful list even if I get annihilated, but likewise can dislike playing a game even when I win based on how the persons attitude is who I'm up against.
For the record I voted Eldar.

Huron black heart wrote:
This is probably a non valid point, but it's usually the player I'm up against rather than the army they field that bothers me. I can have an enjoyable game against a powerful list even if I get annihilated, but likewise can dislike playing a game even when I win based on how the persons attitude is who I'm up against.
For the record I voted Eldar.

I find this is the case more than anything. I have had great games playing against good people where I lose every model. I've also won games that make me wonder why the heck I even participate in this hobby (opponent bitching because I take an early lead with an inferior army that he ends up beating the pants off of).

Tau I can handle, especially on dense boards (which I usually play on). Tau also are not exceptionally strong as long as you don't spam riptides, ghostkeels and that kind of stuff.
Necrons are a pain, but I don't mind them because their competitive lists are pretty fluffy. Necrons are supposed to be terrifying and near impossible to kill.
Eldar are easily the most annoying and OP, so I voted for them. Altough even with Eldar it is possible to make fun lists that are not at all OP.
In the end, it comes down to certain lists and unit combinations I really don't like, rather than certain armies. And Eldar have the most of those.

I have a list of armies I dont like to play, I still will play the game regardless of it, but going into a game already thinking you have lost kills my mood.
1) Dark Eldar poison shots against my ravenwing
2)Tau with removing cover saves against my ravenwing
3) Nurgle Daemons with summoning and insane cover saves,
4) full drop pod armies,

 conker249 wrote:
I have a list of armies I dont like to play, I still will play the game regardless of it, but going into a game already thinking you have lost kills my mood.
1) Dark Eldar poison shots against my ravenwing
2)Tau with removing cover saves against my ravenwing
3) Nurgle Daemons with summoning and insane cover saves,
4) full drop pod armies,

Ignores Cover is also the bane of my existence when I play RW but don't you think it's a bit hypocritical to complain about others getting cover saves? I do hate summoning armies too so I have to agree on that part.

I am used to nurgle Great unclean ones having cover save, re-rolll cover save, then FnP, then re-roll FnP, and then It will not die. with all the proper spells rolled. I feel helpless to cause any damage at all. Then a new one appears out of nowhere, then another in turn 4, and so on.

 Lolcanoe wrote:
So what is it called when you start an army that you say you hate playing against?

Fighting fire with fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mulletdude wrote:

Huron black heart wrote:
This is probably a non valid point, but it's usually the player I'm up against rather than the army they field that bothers me. I can have an enjoyable game against a powerful list even if I get annihilated, but likewise can dislike playing a game even when I win based on how the persons attitude is who I'm up against.
For the record I voted Eldar.

I find this is the case more than anything. I have had great games playing against good people where I lose every model. I've also won games that make me wonder why the heck I even participate in this hobby (opponent bitching because I take an early lead with an inferior army that he ends up beating the pants off of).

The least fun game I've ever played was against Dark Eldar. I won, but it was absolute misery because the guy I was up against complained about every little thing I did. At one point, I forgot that a Ghost Ark had jinked in the previous turn and didn't snap fire the weapons. He yelled so lout that I thought he was going to have a stroke! Luckily, he was from out of town, so I never had to play him again.

I like interacting with my opponent... so I don't like armies that don't allow for that interaction. Examples are Leaf-Blower IG and Gunline Tau.