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Made in us
Experienced Saurus Scar-Veteran





California the Southern

I decided to drop my pledge today. Hopefully if enough people aren't seeing the value, they do it sooner rather than later in the hopes that Privateer gets the message.

I'll certainly be checking back on this, but with a bunch of neat stuff coming up REALLY soon on Kickstarter, I'd rather spend my money on up and coming companies that need the support and in turn give a bit more to backers.

A shame the way this is being handled, as I was super excited at the possibilities of this one.

Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/627383.page#7436324.html
Watch and listen to me ramble about these minis before ruining them with paint!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmCB2mWIxhYF8Q36d2Am_2A 
   
Made in us
Mutating Changebringer





Pennsylvania

So, new update, and it definitely looks like PP has got the message that something wasn't right;

Good afternoon Widower’s Wood backers!

We here at Privateer Press are continuing to brainstorm different ways we can fine-tune this Kickstarter project and your input has been a great inspiration. Not content to let things sit, we’ve got another adjustment to make to our stretch goal ladder that we hope is going to please you.

After adding figures to our pending $300k Supplemental Mission Stretch Goal, we realized overnight that the $200k Stretch Goal was looking a little lonely. So in an effort to balance out our stretch goals a little more and at the same time bring that big, juicy, Ironback Spitter into…spitting distance…we’ve decided to collapse all the unlocked stretch goals down by one rung, so:

• The Swamp Gobbers, originally included in the $225k Stretch Goal will now be included in the already Unlocked $200k Stretch Goal along with the supplemental mission, available to ALL REWARD LEVELS! And that brings the current number of figures included in the Deluxe and Premium rewards to 74!

• The Ironback Spitter now moves from the $250k Stretch Goal to the $225k Stretch Goal, and at the time of this writing that puts us just over $21k away from that massive chunk of plastic! We’ve got too much fun planned for the Ironback — she’s just got to make it into the game!

• The 4 Small Tatzylwurms then move from $275k to the $250k goal…

• The $300k Supplemental Mission + “6 Spear Bog Trogs OR 4 Club Gatormen” (but really, we all know how this is going to turn out) moves to $275k.

• The $325k showdown between the Feralgeists and the Tomahawk Gatormen moves to $300k! (And don’t miss that exciting Twitter poll, kicking off at 6 PM PST, tonight!)

You’ll notice that crushing the stretch goal ladder down has temporarily removed the $325k Stretch Goal. We’ll replace this goal shortly as the campaign continues to develop. We’ve got even more ideas that we’re working on to inject into this project and are looking forward to your feedback before we lock in that next goal.

On the social front, we’re over 400 Shares with our Social Goal, and only need another 90 shares to unlock the Autumn Tiles set! Since you’ve only seen it in the grayed out duotone of the locked goal graphic, we’re including a peek here of what the tiles will look like in full color. Please don’t forget to share the post at the following link!

https://www.facebook.com/74721417049/photos/a.218535387049.145788.74721417049/10153354043717050/?type=3&theater


For illustrative purposes only. Final product may vary.
Last, we’d like to share today’s Privateer Press Insider article with you, by RPG producer Matt Goetz where he talks about his proclivity towards kleptomania and how that relates to The Undercity — a lesson that may be applied to Widower’s Wood, as well!

http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-02-24-2016

Stay tuned for more exciting updates to come! And thank you for your support!

   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Schmapdi wrote:
I love PP as a company - but in many regards they always come off as kind of tightwads to me - never willing to really invest in things like quality plastics (which took ages to show up - and they'll now only use for certain kits).

Honestly, I think this is just down to timing, rather than penny-pinching.

When PP started out, plastics were just too expensive to be an option. It's only really in the last few years that HIPS has been a viable option for smaller companies (and I suspect that for all their popularity we all vastly over-estimate just how 'big' a company PP really is) and the cheaper plastic that they went with instead was the best available option at the time.

Even with the better accessibility to plastic tooling available now, it's not a cheap exercise, and it would be unrealistic to expect everything to be updated immediately. Even GW, with their plastics all done in-house on their own machinery, can only afford to do so much plastic at a time.



And the repeat sculpts in things (like this, and the previous board game) borders on insulting. At least do 2 variants if you're giving us 12 of the same mini.

While I can certain understand the frustration on this (I find it a little disappointing as well) it's only really an issue if you're looking at this game as a source of Warmahordes minis rather than as a standalone boardgame. A boardgame including carbon copies of all of the identical creatures really isn't at all unusual - it's not just a cheaper option, it's much more straightforward for gameplay for those not as familiar with the existing games, as it's easier to tell what is what.

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






After looking over the KS again I ended up backing it for cheap Hordes figs and KoW fodder

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/25 03:26:51


"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







I need to look into this more later myself.

I´m still torn about kickstarter. I know what it´s for, and I like
seeing hobby projects do well. However, the people more likely
to see through their kickstarter projects are the established
companies, whereas the people kickstarter is meant to help
have been less successful at fulfilling their promises.

I should just admit to myself that Kickstarter is here to stay.

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Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Experienced Saurus Scar-Veteran





California the Southern

Kickstarter still is giving the new guys a chance to start up though- it's just they've got to get a lot more legwork done ahead of time, rather than like it used to be where you could just come with art and a dream and people would believe in you. I think a lot of it at this point is presentation just as much as it is getting things prepped for a campaign.

I can think of at least three upcoming projects that look seriously hot, all made by really small groups and individuals that could give some of the professional companies a good run for their money.

At least in the current KS environment there's room for both to succeed, provided everyone is bringing their A game to the campaign.


Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/627383.page#7436324.html
Watch and listen to me ramble about these minis before ruining them with paint!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmCB2mWIxhYF8Q36d2Am_2A 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Kickstarter still is giving the new guys a chance to start up though- it's just they've got to get a lot more legwork done ahead of time, rather than like it used to be where you could just come with art and a dream and people would believe in you. I think a lot of it at this point is presentation just as much as it is getting things prepped for a campaign.

I can think of at least three upcoming projects that look seriously hot, all made by really small groups and individuals that could give some of the professional companies a good run for their money.

At least in the current KS environment there's room for both to succeed, provided everyone is bringing their A game to the campaign.



To be fair, companies should have done their legwork before, which
is an argument for established companies using kickstarter.

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

 malfred wrote:
 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Kickstarter still is giving the new guys a chance to start up though- it's just they've got to get a lot more legwork done ahead of time, rather than like it used to be where you could just come with art and a dream and people would believe in you. I think a lot of it at this point is presentation just as much as it is getting things prepped for a campaign.

I can think of at least three upcoming projects that look seriously hot, all made by really small groups and individuals that could give some of the professional companies a good run for their money.

At least in the current KS environment there's room for both to succeed, provided everyone is bringing their A game to the campaign.



To be fair, companies should have done their legwork before, which
is an argument for established companies using kickstarter.


I've backed a couple of projects by individuals who may have had a company name, but were pretty clearly just launching a solo project. Both were well prepared, and both delivered. One was late, not because of production delays, but because the creator was in Alaska, and didn't feel safe shipping acrylic paint in the winter.

Both were great projects to back, as I have some genuinely unique products. Neither is currently selling their products, which makes me happy I grabbed what I wanted when I did.

So, I think there are upsides to going with unknowns, but clearly apply a healthy sniff test.
   
Made in us
Mutating Changebringer





Pennsylvania

It appears that PP is really putting in the effort, albeit in a regrettably uncoordinated way: they have added a new, lower stretch goal that was met this afternoon;



I say 'regrettably' because they seem to have only announced this goal only in the campaign comments, without putting out an update. If you aren't paying very close attention, difficult to notice it.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Received the update just as I saw this

"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" 
   
Made in us
Mutating Changebringer





Pennsylvania

 Nostromodamus wrote:
Received the update just as I saw this


Heh, better late then never, I suppose.

It is fascinating though, the amount of business justification thrown around at the beginning in order to explain the original SG layout seems to have been... rather more negotiable then originally presented.

   
Made in au
Incorporating Wet-Blending






Australia

 malfred wrote:
...whereas the people kickstarter is meant to help have been less successful at fulfilling their promises.

I'd say Kickstarter's meant to help people who haven't made promises. The ones who have been less successful at fulfilling their promises shouldn't be using Kickstarter because people shouldn't be giving people like Tony Reid money in advance.

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis 
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






Yep. KS isn't "meant" do to anything. It's just another fundraising option that creators have, as opposed to, say, a loan from the bank, money from friends, family, or the day job, or profits from other projects they undertook.

If KS is used "wrong", then you might want to tell the people who run KS that. If they're not too busy counting all the money they have because they don't care how KS should be run, they might respond to you.

WW as a KS project seems reasonable enough. Why risk your company on a boardgame when you have a core product to support? Even after they do fund, this project will take resources that the company could use for other projects that they have a better understanding of, namely their core product.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/26 04:19:04


Crimson Scales and Wildspire Miniatures thread on Reaper! : https://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/103935-wildspire-miniatures-thread/ 
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





Orem, Utah

Kickstarter is only being used 'wrong' when projects do not fulfill- and even not every time for those. It doesn't actually level the playing field for a large company and small companies- but it does allow for a lot more projects to get made from both large and small companies (and everything in between).


Buzzsaw wrote:

It is fascinating though, the amount of business justification thrown around at the beginning in order to explain the original SG layout seems to have been... rather more negotiable then originally presented.


Clearly, it was negotiated. And I mean it in that way: they must have held meetings about changing their campaign strategy.

Privateer Press is a larger company than some of the ones that run kickstarters- and a lot of the Kickstarters I've followed have been put together by someone who can make all of the decisions and changes to the plan by themselves (small group of game developers or sometimes a one man show). Yeah, sometimes they get excited and make poor financial choices (Adam Poots of Kingdom Death) but they also have a mobility to make quick changes to a kickstarter, and react to what is going on without taking hours or days to get the relevant people to talk about things.

For Privateer Press, I don't know who is actually at the keyboard posting comments, but it is pretty clear that they got the OK from above to make some of the changes that we're seeing. Honestly, I think it is pretty encouraging that they've been listening to their audience so much.

And Undercity is a pretty cool game, mechanically. And PP's sculpts are good minis (even with CMON and Ninja Division upping the bar for miniatures board games). I think that the project has a good chance of having a really strong finish.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/27 20:32:10


 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







Fair enough.

Have you done any work for them lately?

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

 odinsgrandson wrote:
Kickstarter is only being used 'wrong' when projects do not fulfill- and even not every time for those. It doesn't actually level the playing field for a large company and small companies- but it does allow for a lot more projects to get made from both large and small companies (and everything in between).


I think the best example of an established company using Kickstarter is Reaper. They'd shown that Bones work, but each kickstarter allowed them to produce several times what they could have made in a year. Certainly by the second or third, they could have secured more traditional financing, but the thing with Bones is that it's so painfully cheap to manufacture that I wouldn't be surprised if Reaper is able to fulfill it's pledges for pennies on the dollar. So a person pledges $200, and reaper spends a tenth of that making the bones, and maybe another tenth sorting, packinging, and shipping them. That's a great deal, especially if you can benefit from economies of scale throughout the pipeline (something, say, Mantic struggles with).

The bottom line is that I trust that Reaper can do more with Kickstarter than it could with cash reserves, and arguably even more than if they had to take on debt.

I don't think that's true for this project. Privateer Press has produced several board games all on its own. That it's choosing to do so now is something that tips me off that they don't have the confidence in their product that I'd hope for. I'd never tell people not to back a product because I don't like something, but this strikes me less as a company branching out or expanding faster, and more about them just trying to hedge their risk with a new product. That's fine for some people, but it rubs me the wrong way. I'm also not in the market for hobby board games, so I might feel different if they were pitching something I liked.
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





Orem, Utah

Reaper is a great example. Especially looking at how fiscally conservative they seem to run their business, KS is a real boon to their bones line.

 malfred wrote:
Fair enough.

Have you done any work for them lately?


No, I've never done any work for Privateer Press.

I wouldn't mind painting for them, but they tend to keep their painters in-house- which means that I'd need to move.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/29 16:58:03


 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







 odinsgrandson wrote:
Reaper is a great example. Especially looking at how fiscally conservative they seem to run their business, KS is a real boon to their bones line.

 malfred wrote:
Fair enough.

Have you done any work for them lately?


No, I've never done any work for Privateer Press.

I wouldn't mind painting for them, but they tend to keep their painters in-house- which means that I'd need to move.


I'm crazy. I could have sworn you had done something. I think I got you confused with jah joshua. Oops.

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





Affton, MO. USA

Never been a huge fan of the PP style, but will definitely consider picking this game up at the 48 hour left mark if the shown stretch goals all get unlocked. I'm making a very mixed herd army for KOW and all the Gator folk would be welcome additions to the group.

LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13

I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14 
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Polonius wrote:


I don't think that's true for this project. Privateer Press has produced several board games all on its own. That it's choosing to do so now is something that tips me off that they don't have the confidence in their product that I'd hope for. I'd never tell people not to back a product because I don't like something, but this strikes me less as a company branching out or expanding faster, and more about them just trying to hedge their risk with a new product. That's fine for some people, but it rubs me the wrong way. I'm also not in the market for hobby board games, so I might feel different if they were pitching something I liked.


Considering that they've apparently said this might not even make it to retail space; dependent on retailer demand, that's probably very true.

My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard





Redondo Beach

 malfred wrote:
 odinsgrandson wrote:
Reaper is a great example. Especially looking at how fiscally conservative they seem to run their business, KS is a real boon to their bones line.

 malfred wrote:
Fair enough.

Have you done any work for them lately?


No, I've never done any work for Privateer Press.

I wouldn't mind painting for them, but they tend to keep their painters in-house- which means that I'd need to move.


I'm crazy. I could have sworn you had done something. I think I got you confused with jah joshua. Oops.


i'm the one with all the hair...

cheers
jah

Paint like ya got a pair!

Available for commissions.
 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Canada

Privateer Press has really improved their communication and flexibility throughout the campaign, and since the last post in this topic they have unlocked three new stretch goals:

The Ironback Spitter
Spoiler:


The Spear Bog Trog Boss
Spoiler:


And two Feralgeists
Spoiler:


There is also currently a vote going on for determining whether the $350K stretch goal will be a Kickstarter exclusive Blackhide Wrastler or a Swamp Horror
Spoiler:


The way they have been handling it also makes it seem likely that whichever figure doesn't win will likely be added as a stretch goal or social stretch goal later on.

I think this kickstarter is definitely a good value at this point, and the more people who join in, the better it will get. At this point I'm thrilled that it looks like I'll be getting almost an entire Blindwater Congregation army out of it (I only play friendly games and local tournaments, so the whole "no use in organized tournaments" thing doesn't bother me) . I'd appreciate anybody helping to spread the word.

Avatar by Makkon

Successful Trades: 1 
   
Made in ca
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





British Columbia

Very cool. Definitely in on this. I've enjoyed their previous boxed games.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/03/02 22:41:54


 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Canada

Great to have you on board! The poll has finished and the results are that the Blackhide Wrastler has been added as the $350K stretch goal and the Swamp Horror has been added as the $375K goal. Assuming the KS gets that far (which I have no doubt it will) it means that there will three different gator warbeasts, which I think is an awesome deal considering the price and everything else that comes in the set.

They will also be hosting a Twitch video showing a group playing through the game on March 4th at 4 PM PST, so anyone who wants to see the game in action can check that out.

We are currently just under $3700 away from unlocking another set of four viper tatzylwurms, which will bring the total up to 83 miniatures:
Spoiler:


As before, any help sharing news of this Kickstarter around would be appreciated.

Avatar by Makkon

Successful Trades: 1 
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





Orem, Utah

 malfred wrote:
 odinsgrandson wrote:
Reaper is a great example. Especially looking at how fiscally conservative they seem to run their business, KS is a real boon to their bones line.

 malfred wrote:
Fair enough.

Have you done any work for them lately?


No, I've never done any work for Privateer Press.

I wouldn't mind painting for them, but they tend to keep their painters in-house- which means that I'd need to move.


I'm crazy. I could have sworn you had done something. I think I got you confused with jah joshua. Oops.


No offense taken. I've been mistaken for Ron Kruzie at Gencon, though never before for someone quite so hirsute. I was wearing a black tee-shirt and looking at the Avatars of War minis at the CMON booth- a guy came up to raz me about buying other company's minis.

I mentioned it to Ron later, and he talked about all of the many different companies' minis that he has.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/03/05 01:42:34


 
   
Made in us
Swamp Troll




San Diego

Is there a map of what currently IS included? Things have shifted so much I'm a bit confused and I am not certain the image on the campaign page is up to date.

   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Canada

The map on the main page is currently up to date, but make sure to count everything listed for the pledge level you are interested in. Hopefully we will be unlocking the set of additional Tatzylwurms today, which would add another four models to all reward levels.

Avatar by Makkon

Successful Trades: 1 
   
Made in us
Swamp Troll




San Diego

 Slayer Dragonwing wrote:
The map on the main page is currently up to date, but make sure to count everything listed for the pledge level you are interested in. Hopefully we will be unlocking the set of additional Tatzylwurms today, which would add another four models to all reward levels.


Thanks, I saw the discussion about MSRP value after posting that. Do we know how much of the "bonus" content that's getting tacked on as unlocks will be in the retail version? I'm extremely conflicted on this one because I'm looking at Undercity on MM at less than $60 and seeing where this is, I am trying to find logic that tells me to support this but feeling like I'd be better off buying Descent or just fantasy miniatures..

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 MLaw wrote:
Do we know how much of the "bonus" content that's getting tacked on as unlocks will be in the retail version?


Again, we don't even know if this will go to retail at all. PP has said it depends on retailer interest.

"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" 
   
Made in us
Swamp Troll




San Diego

 Nostromodamus wrote:
 MLaw wrote:
Do we know how much of the "bonus" content that's getting tacked on as unlocks will be in the retail version?


Again, we don't even know if this will go to retail at all. PP has said it depends on retailer interest.


Oh.. Doesn't that seem almost a bit like they're ransoming the availability of the game? It feels almost a bit like those furniture companies threatening to go out of business every other week. Do we REALLY think they'd invest the manpower and resources to developing a boardgames and NOT have it go to retail?

   
 
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