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I'm planning on making an Imperial Knights army, the less I use of anything else the happier I'll be. I love the models, I know I'm not going for a GT, just enjoyable, preferably competitive list to make a fun game for me and my opponent.

I understand I might need to get bikes to have a cheesy techmarine fix my guys and for others for object grabbing

But in general, going for a Baronial Court (3 Knights) to start with, you would put carapace weapons on them all right?
What about the reaper chainsword vs thunderstrike gauntlet? Is tossing dead opponents worth striking last?

What's a good combination for a Baronial Court for a take-all-comers list?

Warden with TIAC, Warden with SSRP, Paladin with SSRP?
Warden with TIAC, Crusader with ISMP, Paladin with SSRP?

and yes I would let my opponent know I'm playing imp knights
I've been away for 10 years so I'd be happy to get some pointers

The Stormspear is the best carapace weapon, hands down. The Ironstorm is okay, while the Icarus only shines in the AA formation. The Thunderfist sounds neat, but it's not 10pts of neat. It does pretty much guarantee you will Stomp that turn, though. I'd avoid paying for it, so only that it if you go Gallants or in a War Convocation.

Double Wardens with a Paladin is a strong list. If you have the points, double Wardens and a Crusader is even better.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The Stormspear is the best carapace weapon, hands down. The Ironstorm is okay, while the Icarus only shines in the AA formation. The Thunderfist sounds neat, but it's not 10pts of neat. It does pretty much guarantee you will Stomp that turn, though. I'd avoid paying for it, so only that it if you go Gallants or in a War Convocation.

Double Wardens with a Paladin is a strong list. If you have the points, double Wardens and a Crusader is even better.

SJ

Yeah the Stormspear seems very nice, I thought I should get at least some anti-air as well within the Court. I'm wondering at what point cost you would take the AA formation? once you can have a Baronial Court AND an AA formation? Or would it be once you have 2 Baronial Courts and a AA formation?

I really like the Crusader, perhaps I worry too much about him being alone and fragile if the Wardens rush into melee and he's 12" behind them "vulnerable"

The Stormspear has a better chance of killing a flyer than the Icarus does. If you want AA, allied it in.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The Stormspear has a better chance of killing a flyer than the Icarus does. If you want AA, allied it in.

SJ

Really?!

Even at TL-skyfire with 2 shots? plus the interceptor ofc

There's just 1 str difference

When has 2 Str 7 AP4 shots ever killed a 3HP vehicle?

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
When has 2 Str 7 AP4 shots ever killed a 3HP vehicle?

SJ

hahaha can't argue with that math

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
When has 2 Str 7 AP4 shots ever killed a 3HP vehicle?

SJ

When it causes an Immobilize into crash-and-burn.

 raverrn wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
When has 2 Str 7 AP4 shots ever killed a 3HP vehicle?

SJ

When it causes an Immobilize into crash-and-burn.

Run the nunbers on that, then run the numbers on 3 Str8 AP3 without Skyfire. The Stormspear actually has a higher chance of killing a Flyer. The only time the Icarus pulls ahead is when used in the Knight AA formation.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 raverrn wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
When has 2 Str 7 AP4 shots ever killed a 3HP vehicle?

SJ

When it causes an Immobilize into crash-and-burn.

Run the nunbers on that, then run the numbers on 3 Str8 AP3 without Skyfire. The Stormspear actually has a higher chance of killing a Flyer. The only time the Icarus pulls ahead is when used in the Knight AA formation.

SJ

I was actually thinking of eventually running a Baronial Court + AA formation

AA: 2xCrusader, 1xWarden
Baronial: Lancer, Castigator, Errant(or Warden) with Stormspear

I'd love more Stormspear to be honest. But in a game this big I'm sure there would be several super heavies to deal with, hence the Lancer. With the Baronial as a forward formation I'd need someone to "disperse crowds" hence the Castigator. Then I'm not sure if I should go for Warden or Errant (need another melee D just in case I feel), Errant might be good since we're rushing forward, but Warden is always sexy I think.

AA would work on positioning and rain hellfire from and into the skies
(plus CAD bikes or something to grab objectives)


Until I've got a six-pack, I'm thinking Baronial Crusader, Warden and Lancer (anti TEQ)

Good? Nonsense? I'm new to Imperial Knights so dig in

Consider a Household detachment instead of Baronial court. You still get a +1 WS, BS Baron, but instead of 3++ within 12" all your Knights become Objective Secured.

I have liked a Warden with Stormspear, a Crusader with battle cannon and Stormspear and a Castigator from FW as a 3-man Household team. All three are great anti GMC with shooting and you have your basis covered with regards to anti armor, anti infantry. The Castigator excels in killing hordes quickly and it can also get around the psychic power invisibility in combat. He shores up two major weaknesses Knight armies tend to have.

The secret to winning with Imperial Knights!!!!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/680688.page


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Okuma wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 raverrn wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
When has 2 Str 7 AP4 shots ever killed a 3HP vehicle?

SJ

When it causes an Immobilize into crash-and-burn.

Run the nunbers on that, then run the numbers on 3 Str8 AP3 without Skyfire. The Stormspear actually has a higher chance of killing a Flyer. The only time the Icarus pulls ahead is when used in the Knight AA formation.

SJ

I was actually thinking of eventually running a Baronial Court + AA formation

AA: 2xCrusader, 1xWarden
Baronial: Lancer, Castigator, Errant(or Warden) with Stormspear

I'd love more Stormspear to be honest. But in a game this big I'm sure there would be several super heavies to deal with, hence the Lancer. With the Baronial as a forward formation I'd need someone to "disperse crowds" hence the Castigator. Then I'm not sure if I should go for Warden or Errant (need another melee D just in case I feel), Errant might be good since we're rushing forward, but Warden is always sexy I think.

AA would work on positioning and rain hellfire from and into the skies
(plus CAD bikes or something to grab objectives)


Until I've got a six-pack, I'm thinking Baronial Crusader, Warden and Lancer (anti TEQ)

Good? Nonsense? I'm new to Imperial Knights so dig in

It does not work that way. You either choose for your 3 knights to be AA or Baronial Court formation. You can not have the same 3 count for both formations. You need 3 more Knights if you wanna use both formations.

Haha, Flinch is so filled with butthurt that he/she didnt even bother to read the conversation. Wherever there is talk about IK Flinch goes and gaks all over the place so just dont pay attention.

As the others have said, stormspear all the way. Something that is maybe a bit boring and gimicky but certainly good is to ally in sevrin Loth and some durable body guards for him while taking the 3 Knights = 1 unit formation. 3 Knights with invisibility on them sure is a pain to deal with. With a 2++ Save on Sverin he should be able to stick around to cast it both once and twice

 Filch wrote:


It does not work that way. You either choose for your 3 knights to be AA or Baronial Court formation. You can not have the same 3 count for both formations. You need 3 more Knights if you wanna use both formations.

Sorry I may not have been clear enough, what I meant was:
AA formation: Crusader+Crusader+Warden
Baronial Court: Castigator+Lancer+Warden(or Errant)w/stormspear

Total of 6 knights

Maybe household attachment instead of Baronial since the FW ones might rush ahead.

But you guys think AA formation is not worth it?

I'm noy fighting for it, just curious. I'm no more excited to model everyone with icarius instead of stormspear plus if I've got the FWers I wouldn't mind the extra shooting of stormspear

The only carapace weapon option that matters is a magnet so you can swap out every option. That goes for the arms and torso weapon, too. Knights are awesome kits, no need to limit yourself to one option out of dozens.

SJ

6 knights is quite a large amount of points, how often will you be playing 2500 games? The force you listed would come in at roughly 2560 +/- few for different upgrades and relics.

The AA formation is generally not worth it since fliers aren't commonly seen in large quantities these days, but it is heavily meta dependant, whereas SSRP gives you a decent punch against ground targets and can do a passable job as AA in a pinch. To you have opponents who can and will take flying bakery/circus/potatoes?

One thing that I'd suggest though is that you ask your opponents thoughts before collecting the army uf you actually want to play them, since playing against all-knight-all-the-time armies usually ends in a kerb stomp battle because they brought enough melta/anti tank and wrecked your face or they didn't and you crushed them with minimal retaliation. Not to mention that many opponents won't particularly like repeatedly facing off against 4-6 superheavys every game.

It's a cool force to see on the table, and an interesting one to play against or with once, but I certainly wouldn't call it fun for either side. Having said that, an actual apoc game at high points and multiple players per side can lead to serious fun if one player runs knights, even more so if a player from each side runs knights and you can have proper jousts.

If you are concerned about Flyers, take a SM AA Defence Force. Cheaper than a Knight, able to knock out pretty much every Flyer in the game.

SJ

Hi! I'm coming at this from the notion of adding a single Knight to my Imperial Guard forces:
- Stormspear on the Carapace, for sure.
- Thunderfist, because it looks cooler, but I might work up something "special" as a S(D) CCW.

But yeah, magnets!

tedurur wrote:
Haha, Flinch is so filled with butthurt that he/she didnt even bother to read the conversation. Wherever there is talk about IK Flinch goes and gaks all over the place so just dont pay attention.

As the others have said, stormspear all the way. Something that is maybe a bit boring and gimicky but certainly good is to ally in sevrin Loth and some durable body guards for him while taking the 3 Knights = 1 unit formation. 3 Knights with invisibility on them sure is a pain to deal with. With a 2++ Save on Sverin he should be able to stick around to cast it both once and twice

This guy made this list with 3 invisible knights!
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/675029.page#8354068

IMHO the Icarus Cannon is MUCH better than everything else in terms of AA capability.

3 S8 DS3 shots will result in 0.5/3 HITS.
Lets say the flyer is armour 12, than 0.25/3 shots will actually do something. Nothing to sweat about and therefore no jinking needed.

the icarus cannon on the other hand fires twice because of interceptor and actually has a pretty damn good chance of asctually hitting the target because of skyfire.
The enemy will have to decide to jink in the turn the flyer comes on and your next shooting phase.
You have 4 shots to get the flyer down and the chances are much higher to inflict damage.
Additionally, you prevent the flyer to deal damage by making it jink.

Unless math is different in the US I dont see any reason to take the stormspear. The stormspear is not even close to be as good as the Icarus in terms of anti air.

But as already said before: magnets are your friends, they even allow you to show destroyed weapons by removing them ;-)

You don't fire twice with interceptor. If you use interceptor to fire a weapon, that weapon is not available to be used in your following turn.

SJ

True, forgot about that.

Doesnt change that the icarus is more effective though.
And the thing about jinking still applies.

Depends on how many points you have left after fitting in as many Knights as humanly possible.

After all, you can get four 375~ point Knights and a Gallant in at 1850. With the last 25 points, what can you really buy? Not to mention if you have FW Knights, the amount of points you have left goes down...

 Drasius wrote:
6 knights is quite a large amount of points, how often will you be playing 2500 games? The force you listed would come in at roughly 2560 +/- few for different upgrades and relics.

The AA formation is generally not worth it since fliers aren't commonly seen in large quantities these days, but it is heavily meta dependant, whereas SSRP gives you a decent punch against ground targets and can do a passable job as AA in a pinch. To you have opponents who can and will take flying bakery/circus/potatoes?

One thing that I'd suggest though is that you ask your opponents thoughts before collecting the army uf you actually want to play them, since playing against all-knight-all-the-time armies usually ends in a kerb stomp battle because they brought enough melta/anti tank and wrecked your face or they didn't and you crushed them with minimal retaliation. Not to mention that many opponents won't particularly like repeatedly facing off against 4-6 superheavys every game.

It's a cool force to see on the table, and an interesting one to play against or with once, but I certainly wouldn't call it fun for either side. Having said that, an actual apoc game at high points and multiple players per side can lead to serious fun if one player runs knights, even more so if a player from each side runs knights and you can have proper jousts.

haha this might be the crux of the matter, and relates to what Crazyterran mentioned, I'm kind of an island here without anyone to play with in China. So mainly I'm just modelling and painting, but I would like to have the option to field something that would be fun to play with and against.

As you said, it might be best to consider my army as an addition to one side of an apoc team game. That being said, would you bring an AA formation? Or just stick with the Baronial/Household/Exalted?

I would magnet my stuff, but it wouldn't make them as cool as "models".

If its just to show, then model them as you want. If it's to play, the advice already given is correct.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
If its just to show, then model them as you want. If it's to play, the advice already given is correct.

SJ

A decent half of an apoc force, for show

I'm wondering if the loadouts would change from a single army to the half of an apoc force

 Okuma wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
If its just to show, then model them as you want. If it's to play, the advice already given is correct.

SJ

A decent half of an apoc force, for show

I'm wondering if the loadouts would change from a single army to the half of an apoc force

No. The load out advice would stay the same.

SJ

I dont take carapace weapons because I am trying to fit in that 4th IK at 1500pts...

 Filch wrote:
I dont take carapace weapons because I am trying to fit in that 4th IK at 1500pts...

Have you read anything that people here are discussing or are you just here to vent your frustration at unfair/unsportsman-like Imperial Knight lists?

We're having a discussion about carapace weapons and formations for 6 Imperial Knights to be used as a half of an apoc army.

I'd love to listen if you have any thoughts about that scenario, as you sound like you've played for some time and have experience against competitive lists. Otherwise I'd kindly ask you refrain from griping over imaginary unfairness here, this is not the place for that.

First and foremost, did you already buy the 6 Imperial Knights? Why 6? Why not just 5 and run Household or Exalted court?

Have you done enough research on forge world knights? Have you considered the Castigator, Atropas, Archeron? Most people try 3 IK and 2 FW Cerrastus Knights. The Castigator can substitute Anti Air Very well!

Can we even get an idea as to what the other half of your army is? Because that is very important.

In my anecdotical experience which Vathaki has said are not valid in any argument or discussion because its not math hammer evidence, using the carapace weapon is just more point sink as a pair of meltaguns for 10pts each has a small chance to remove all 6 hp. Haywire is especially dangerous to SHV because unlike GMC, haywire is not nerfed like poison and sniping.

The link i posted about the invisible triparite lance has had success. Did you even click on that? Or did you just ignore it? What You think it was another joke? Please contact that other player for further advice. He has had better success with IK than I ever will.

And In regards to the unsportsmanlike yady yada, news of an IK player in a new community spreads quicker and is greeted with so much more hate then a player with 5 wraith knights for some reason. Probably because its eldar and people accepted that eldar is overpowered and proceed to lay down and die as grav guns are only the reliable way to deal with one. In a casual game it is perfectly justified for your opponent to tailor his list 100% because neither one of you will have a fun time if he doesn't tailor his list.

So to recap and keep it simple for you.

My ADVICE to you is to not spend points on carapace weapons. I encourage you to try out 5-6 Wardens with House hold detachment or Exalted court. Spend the points you saved on the other half of your army to support the IKs better. Each one is a ticking time bomb. You dont want it to explode because was using ada lance or Baronial Court and one was 3" or 6" too close when an apocalyptic blast goes off.