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 JamesY wrote:
@ sgt_smudge non of my gaming circle care at all, although it was a question I asked on here a couple of days ago if it would cause a problem in an event.

There's a whole myriad of opinions, but only the TO's matters.

It's a strange situation, with 40k, alot of gamers don't care about the fluff and it's perfectly acceptable to deviate from it, as long as the rules are followed. Imo, it should be the same for 30k, but some how it isn't. It's no more fluff driven than 40k, but a lot of people are very precious about it. Some people do just like space marines, and want to play 30k because of the different options it opens up, not because they particularly care about fluff. I believe that that's what the black shields have been created to accommodate? (I've only just really gotten into 30k myself so not sure on that, I gave up on the books at Prospero burns).

Should? Why *should* it be the same? It's far more fluff driven, what with the better consistency of background that FW produce, and the armies are far more balanced amongst eachother. The Blackshields are a fluff device themselves, following from the disavowed forces that nearly each legion had. They are actually, to my knowledge, a fairly limiting force, but are there for the fluff players.

It's a far more narratively based setting and game, and as much as I understand how it's "your dudes", it feels odd to see a battle in the 31st Millenium... with 40k colours. 30k is perfectly accessible, but it would be nearly akin to me showing up with a bunch of Ork boyz, playing them as count-as Legion Marines, only to use a better ruleset than the one you already have. After all, if you're not bothered about fluff, you wouldn't object to playing a 30k v 40k game?

But, I can feel myself slipping into borderline hypocritical ground here, so I'm going to stop.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
To me and I suspect a lot of players Horus Heresy is a game about a setting rather than just putting your miniatures on the board. I got into it to recreate the Legions of old and one of the darkest eras in Imperial history. It's a very fluff driven game to most of the people who play it.

But should that be grounds to exclude players who want to play it for a different reason?


Edit @ sgt_smudge wouldn't a better balanced game be grounds on it's own for wanting to use its rules?

 JamesY wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
To me and I suspect a lot of players Horus Heresy is a game about a setting rather than just putting your miniatures on the board. I got into it to recreate the Legions of old and one of the darkest eras in Imperial history. It's a very fluff driven game to most of the people who play it.

But should that be grounds to exclude players who want to play it for a different reason?

I have never advocated for excluding players who do this. I personally would rather play against a Legion in Death Guard colors than that of the Novamarines even if there is no real functional difference (Beyond Legion traits, of course). I'd still play against that player (Nor make them feel unwelcome) but.. yeah, like other people have said, it wouldn't be 100% for me.

 JamesY wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
To me and I suspect a lot of players Horus Heresy is a game about a setting rather than just putting your miniatures on the board. I got into it to recreate the Legions of old and one of the darkest eras in Imperial history. It's a very fluff driven game to most of the people who play it.

But should that be grounds to exclude players who want to play it for a different reason?


Edit @ sgt_smudge wouldn't a better balanced game be grounds on it's own for wanting to use its rules?

If I had a guy playing a Death Guard army painted as the Death Guard wanting to play and a guy that has a Death Guard Army painted as Novamarines, to use TheCustomLime's example, that both wanted to play me and I could chose only one. I'd chose the one painted as the Death Guard. 30k is about fluff for me.

Fair enough. I completely respect that most people are motivated to play because of the fluff and want to fight a 'proper' legion. I just wouldn't want to be refused games on the grounds that that isn't my reason for playing. Probably not an issue as I don't often game outside my regular mates.

Well you know everyone has their own ideal, but it wont always be met. And at the end of the day, playing the game with anyone would be good.

Yeah, just to clarify, I'm not refusing anyone games here. It wouldn't be ideal, but it's far easier to just roll with it than demand someone repaint their whole army.

OP here.

Havent lost insterest in time scale. Ive already collected the firehawks. (about 5k in hawks, incld T-hawk)

i was just seeing if anything other than badab war entries would be allowed. I thought the origin of the chapter was in the wrong time zone.

I am fluff driven. Ill stick to my time zone. UNLESS!!! the "warp" sends the firehawks, at the time of their disappearance during their warp jump on raptorus rex, back in time, to the ORIGINAL raptorus rex at calth and slaughters the enemy inhabitants before being swept off back into the warp. Ultramarines boarding forces easily take over the ship noticing the fire inside the fortress, and sudden collapse of its defensive grid. Charred corpses line the hallways as the ultras scan for life, putting out fires and establishing control of the ship.

Ultras get the raptorus rex, firehawks are sucked off to another adventure via the 'warp' and calth ends. A sudden appearance in a 30k verse to turn the tide.

Interested approach, using the warp jump they failed to make as a device to insert the hawks into behind the scenes situations where outcomes have been suddenly shifted for some un revealed reason.

orrr im just writting ripped.

All good

@sgt_smudge when I said about the game being no more fluff driven than 40k I meant the mechanics, i.e. knowledge of the background makes no difference on being able to access and follow the rules. I appreciate that motivation to play the game, and the attention to detail on the reasons behind the options available to different armies, are more driven by fluff. Just to be clear

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
OP here.

Havent lost insterest in time scale. Ive already collected the firehawks. (about 5k in hawks, incld T-hawk)

i was just seeing if anything other than badab war entries would be allowed. I thought the origin of the chapter was in the wrong time zone.

I am fluff driven. Ill stick to my time zone. UNLESS!!! the "warp" sends the firehawks, at the time of their disappearance during their warp jump on raptorus rex, back in time, to the ORIGINAL raptorus rex at calth and slaughters the enemy inhabitants before being swept off back into the warp. Ultramarines boarding forces easily take over the ship noticing the fire inside the fortress, and sudden collapse of its defensive grid. Charred corpses line the hallways as the ultras scan for life, putting out fires and establishing control of the ship.

Ultras get the raptorus rex, firehawks are sucked off to another adventure via the 'warp' and calth ends. A sudden appearance in a 30k verse to turn the tide.

Interested approach, using the warp jump they failed to make as a device to insert the hawks into behind the scenes situations where outcomes have been suddenly shifted for some un revealed reason.

orrr im just writting ripped.

I mean, "the Warp did it" is a valid argument, but would you be using 30k rules for your Hawks? Because that doesn't make a huge amount of sense - going back in time and getting a whole new set of rules and traits doesn't quite sit well with me. If you wanted to play 30k vs 40k, I'd be absolutely fine with it though.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
To me and I suspect a lot of players Horus Heresy is a game about a setting rather than just putting your miniatures on the board. I got into it to recreate the Legions of old and one of the darkest eras in Imperial history. It's a very fluff driven game to most of the people who play it.

I agree. Thus why I have a Iron Hands Legion Glaive. Its a 30k only model thats a freaking lazor. Only reason I started playing 30k was bc of THAT tank.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
OP here.

Havent lost insterest in time scale. Ive already collected the firehawks. (about 5k in hawks, incld T-hawk)

i was just seeing if anything other than badab war entries would be allowed. I thought the origin of the chapter was in the wrong time zone.

I am fluff driven. Ill stick to my time zone. UNLESS!!! the "warp" sends the firehawks, at the time of their disappearance during their warp jump on raptorus rex, back in time, to the ORIGINAL raptorus rex at calth and slaughters the enemy inhabitants before being swept off back into the warp. Ultramarines boarding forces easily take over the ship noticing the fire inside the fortress, and sudden collapse of its defensive grid. Charred corpses line the hallways as the ultras scan for life, putting out fires and establishing control of the ship.

Ultras get the raptorus rex, firehawks are sucked off to another adventure via the 'warp' and calth ends. A sudden appearance in a 30k verse to turn the tide.

Interested approach, using the warp jump they failed to make as a device to insert the hawks into behind the scenes situations where outcomes have been suddenly shifted for some un revealed reason.

orrr im just writing ripped.

I mean, "the Warp did it" is a valid argument, but would you be using 30k rules for your Hawks? Because that doesn't make a huge amount of sense - going back in time and getting a whole new set of rules and traits doesn't quite sit well with me. If you wanted to play 30k vs 40k, I'd be absolutely fine with it though.

Yeah that was just ridiculous. But it would be great entry for the Firehawks story or something. Thats all their book series is, a collaboration of random jump episodes. Fights in the warp, in the 40k verse, in the times between 30 and 40k, maybe even before. gak, they could flash to a time on terra and slaughter a whole field of mutant cows, the emperor walks by and was like 'damn, i need to make me some space men!" and thats where he gets his original idea for the marines... I mean the possibilities are endless.

Firehawks are not 30k M8