Assault Scouts CCW/BP or Shotgun?

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**Redluck78**

For Assault Scouts in a LSS would it be better to take CCW/BP or Shotgun?

**Nevelon**

Depends.

I know it’s a cop out answer, but it’s true. Shotguns are a jack of all trades weapon. Worse then the bolter for shooting, better for charging. Not as good as the pistol in CC, but better at range.

You get two shots before the charge, rather then one. But one less shot in CC. You always hit on a 3+ due to BS4. Depending who you are fighting, CC hits might be on a 3 or 4. If you are fighting someone with a better initiative then you, you also ensure getting the hits in. You get less swings in during the second and subsequent rounds.

If charged, you get more shots in overwatch, but less swings in CC.

There will be times you don’t want to charge. Say, if you are already on the objective. More shots is better.

Shotguns look cooler.

And finally, don’t forget you can mix them in a squad. If you have one or two shotgunners in the front of the squad, they can fire, and then be the first ones to die to overwatch.

Imperial Fists get bolter drill on their pistols. This slightly erodes the advantage shotguns have with shooting. But not by a lot.

**GreenShoes**

If you're charging with Scouts it better be against something they can kill. Even Tactical Marines will win out in assault thanks to their 3+ save. The only thing that scouts should be doing in assault is beating up Guardsmen or tar pitting something scary. Either way, the extra CC attack won't add much.

In short, I say go Shotguns.

**Lammikkovalas**

GreenShoes wrote:
If you're charging with Scouts it better be against something they can kill. Even Tactical Marines will win out in assault thanks to their 3+ save. The only thing that scouts should be doing in assault is beating up Guardsmen or tar pitting something scary. Either way, the extra CC attack won't add much.

In short, I say go Shotguns.

Are you kidding? CCW Scouts wreck regular Tacticals in close quarters any day of the week.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Shotguns allow it to be easier at winning combat. Even with 10 vs 15 attacks, having less to fight is better.

**blaktoof**

Ccwpn+B.pistol + charge = 3 attacks each.

If you are coming from a LSS, thats 18 attacks. 9 hits(mathhammer of course is not real math...)

4 wounds, 1.33 unsaved wound. against meq.

If you fired Bolt pistols beforehand you could add on

3 hits, 1.5wounds, .5 unsaved wounds. So 1.83 wounds, which we will say is still 1 wound.

Shotguns.

12 shots, 6 hits, 3 wounds, 1 unsaved
assaulting = 12 attacks 6 hits, 3 wounds, 1 unsaved.

Shotguns are better than ccwpn+bolt pistol versus meq- but not by much.

Consider also shooting at an unit and causing 1 casualty is unlikely to force a break test, and reduces the amount of models firing overwatch at you.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Wait, how are you getting 18 attacks.
3 attacks each on the charge with 5 dudes is just 15 attacks.

**War Kitten**

I would say Shotguns. It lets you put the hurt on whatever target you're about to charge a little more than the BP+CCW, especially for drive bys in a LSS

**blaktoof**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Wait, how are you getting 18 attacks.
3 attacks each on the charge with 5 dudes is just 15 attacks.

For some reason I thought the LSS had a 6 capacity.

The math scales down and up leaving shotguns the better choice still.

**lessthanjeff**

blaktoof wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Wait, how are you getting 18 attacks.
3 attacks each on the charge with 5 dudes is just 15 attacks.

For some reason I thought the LSS had a 6 capacity.

The math scales down and up leaving shotguns the better choice still.

You also seem to have run scouts as being BS3 instead of BS4.

**Redluck78**

Shotguns look cooler.

I'm sold

In seriousness I was posting to see if there was any real consensus on ccw vs shotguns as I couldn't real find one. Shotguns it is!

**derpyhooves72**

My choice: 4x shotguns, 1x power weapon & bolt pistol.

**koooaei**

My personal preference is bp+ccw cause those extra melee attacks matter more and are more reliable for my playstyle. If you're going with shotguns, i'd still take one with bp and ccw cause of thrown nades.

**Spacewolverine**

My CCW/BP Scouts w/ a melta bomb in a LSS w/ Heavy Flamer have been one of my best units in my Raven Guard after dropping there Vanguard. After that most ignore them while causing havoc. I've doubled or tripled there points most games. Very versatile and was my MVP one game getting lucky last man up put the killing blow on a TWC Wolf Guard Battle Leader.

Good times, run what you want. Shotguns look awesome, always have been my favorite models.

**casvalremdeikun**

If I had to run something other than Bolter Scouts, they would be the BP+CCW and possibly a Power Weapon on the Sergeant. But that is because Bolter Drill. I love rerolling ones.

However, Mathhammer has Shotguns as the better option, even in the case of Bolter Drill. So from a pure numbers standpoint, Shotguns are superior in every way. If you change the Sergeants to a Power Weapon and Bolt Pistol, the BP+CCW becomes the better option, but by a small margin. Keep in mind, all of my numbers are based off the Bolter Drill variant. Shotguns are better when it is not.

I prefer my Scouts out of melee shooting Bolters at stuff from the ~~debatable~~ safety of their Land Speeder Storms.

**lessthanjeff**

I think people are only saying the shotgun numbers are better because they're only looking at a single round of combat for the unit. In general, I'd expect the combat to last for a few rounds at least and that's where the BP and CCW will surpass the shotgun.

**Crazyterran**

After the first round of combat the BP+CCW will be better.

Since, after all, if you have shotguns in melee after the first round you are essentially just Tactical Marines at that point with a worse save.

Assault Scouts should always have CCWs and Pistols. Especially since you don't want to risk shooting yourself out of range, and the extra five attacks in close combat could mean the difference between getting the chance to sweep or being locked in.

Sweeping beats everything (that's not a marine), after all!

**Slayer-Fan123**

Sure, after the first round, Pistols and melee weapons are better.

I don't WANT my Scouts in melee for more than one round though. Anything they're going to be hitting for multiple rounds is stopping them from completing objective capturing.

**lessthanjeff**

Right, but my point is that numbers were given to say shotguns are better because if you only look at the first turn the 5 man squad will average inflicting 5.8 wounds through shooting and assaulting while the bp & ccw will only average 5.4.

To me, that's a very minor difference and worth going for the bp and ccw because every round therafter the shotgun squad will inflict 1.25 wounds while the bp and ccw inflicts 2.5. If there is even just one additional round of combat, then the bp and ccw comes out almost 1 wound higher in damage output.

If you don't want your scouts in melee for more than one round, then you want to make sure they have a higher damage output to clear the combat and get back to objectives as you desire. Alternatively, you can just play white scars and leave when you want.