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 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:

(Oh man, they wheeled Nick Clegg out to defend the EU. Deary me. Do they actually want to remain or what? Is he the best they could find? That said, it's not like the other side are that much better, but Farage can at least sound convincing when he's lying)

Well, Jeremy Clarkson also said that Britain should remain in the EU

I'm pretty sure that revelation may have given some Daily Mail readers a brain aneurysm

Not really. I've always considered Clarkson to be a right knob, as entertaining as he was on Top Gear.

 Da Boss wrote:
Awww c'mon, where's that famous UK sense of humour? No worse than any stereotyping of the Germans on UK comedy shows. I thought it was pretty funny

Also, I don't think they were trying particularly hard to endear you towards staying - the tone I get from it is exasperation. Though perhaps we're both projecting there.

I will give you though: I thought the bit about british women was a bit below the belt and unfunny. I dunno where that's coming from to be honest!

Eh. I don't mind them making jokes about the Queen, the Empire, fish and chips, the war, and so on. That's fair game. There were just a few cracks like the women though that made me go, 'This isn't so much comedy as crass insults'. I mean, there has to be a joke for comedy. Just flat out saying , 'They have bad taste, ugly women and are stupid! Yeah!' isn't so much entertaining as it is a shopping list of generic insults. I expect the lowest common denominator when I see a bloke like Johnny Vegas, but that looked like it was meant to be more of a Have I Got News For you equivalent.

Yeah, I'm kinda agreeing with Ketara here. Especially if you subscribe to the, "take what comedians say seriously and politicians as a nonsense joke" route as a paraphrase of the old saying.

That seems to be another good example of a 'thing' that if passed around would end up making undecideds lean towards the exit. What's probably not taking into account of, is the tendancy for, if someone says, "you're an idiot for trying to do that" a person to then instinctively go, "well, I'll show you!"


Personally, the main argument for me of the UK staying in the EU, is Trump becoming the US President. That would very much end up leaving the UK with a very small number of close friends (especially taking into the account the opinions of senior French politicians from earlier).

Even then, it's not really a case of us directly relying on the close relationship with the US if Trump isn't elected. The way I see it, one of the good 'things' that the UK provides to the world is being the middleman, the broker almost to a whole range of things.

Just as becoming too integrated to the EU hurts that global niche, ending up being too far away from both the EU and the US would end up becoming disastrous.

And, of course, since it's political stuff here. The reality doesn't matter, it's the impression that ends up mattering most.

On an extemely minute chance that the US elects Trump, I don't see how it's going to be that bad for UK. Most of his shenanigans would be relegated at home.

Thanks for the vid, always fascinating to see what people elsewhere think/feel.


... One couldn't help but note that the terms British and/or England/English were used pretty much interchangeably...

... so it's not just us who do that then eh ?

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:

(Oh man, they wheeled Nick Clegg out to defend the EU. Deary me. Do they actually want to remain or what? Is he the best they could find? That said, it's not like the other side are that much better, but Farage can at least sound convincing when he's lying)

Well, Jeremy Clarkson also said that Britain should remain in the EU

I'm pretty sure that revelation may have given some Daily Mail readers a brain aneurysm

Not really. I've always considered Clarkson to be a right knob, as entertaining as he was on Top Gear.

No argument there, but he's usually been the kind of knob that some Daily Mail readers love, railing at "health and safety gone mad" or "political correctness gone mad".

So this stance on the EU is quite surprising, to say the least.

Not me, is my point. Daily Mail readers aren't a hive mind.

Are you sure? ;-)

Something I saw on You-tube about crime in Berlin.

I thought them shouting 'ficki ficki' at women was an exaggeration. Apparently not. Well done Merkel.

Had a social night out resteraunt with some of the men from my parents' church and met an old friend/school mate. The last time we went on one of these nights out (about 1 year, 2 years ago), we talked about the EU and he was very pro EU (mainly for business reasons, given that he studied business and accounting and thought the EU is good for business), even to the point that he appeared to be offended that I support UKIP.

Imagine my surprise when he said today that he favoured No (Leave), saying "We should be able to make our own trade deals". In fact, of the 5 people I spoke to about it (in a group of 20), half of them favoured No, and the rest were undecided. There was even a Romanian guy (builder, runs his own business) who, though he was non committal (not eligible to vote so declined to give his opinion) had nothing positive to say about the EU. He's in the process of applying for British citizenship (I hope he gets it, he's a great guy).

Someone also mentioned that a friend of theirs who runs a fairly big small business (worth half a million) and wants Out, despite doing the majority of his business with the EU.

Anecdotal I know, but I cannot recall a single person who I know personally that wants to Stay.

That post made me smile...

1. Old ex-pro EU supporter businessman changes mind - check
2. Infered increase in statically support for exit, (half of 5, of 20?) - check
3. Foreign "friend" who's a great guy, and a businessman who declines to condemn Brexit - check
4. Further anecdote of a friend of a friend, who is also a businessman who wants out. - check.

Are you sure you don't write for the Daily Mail? Your stories are solid gold for them, and coincidentally exactly match their journalistic standards. ;-)

 r_squared wrote:
That post made me smile...

1. Old ex-pro EU supporter businessman changes mind - check
2. Infered increase in statically support for exit, (half of 5, of 20?) - check
3. Foreign "friend" who's a great guy, and a businessman who declines to condemn Brexit - check
4. Further anecdote of a friend of a friend, who is also a businessman who wants out. - check.

Are you sure you don't write for the Daily Mail? Your stories are solid gold for them, and coincidentally exactly match their journalistic standards. ;-)

He's writing his opinion and empirical experiences on Dakka. He doesn't need a point by point citation.

Play nice and remember Rule 1.

I Ignored him days ago.

Are you sure you don't write for the Daily Mail? Your stories are solid gold for them, and coincidentally exactly match their journalistic standards. ;-)

Could you please drop the passive aggressive personal insults? Its becoming tiresome and petty. Like I said, I acknowledge its purely an anecdote. This is an ACTUAL conversation that I had just last night, reported pretty much verbatim. I could have spun the truth and said the Romanian guy is anti-EU but I didn't, just said he was non-comittal and had nothing positive to say about it. And I said I only spoke to 5 people out of the 20, I don't know what the rest of the group's opinions were. They might all be pro EU for all I know.

Theres no call for these personal insults and the fact that you're still resorting to ad hominem nearly a week after a Mod warned you just shows your character and your lack of good faith in this debate.But I guess thats pretty much par for the course in this Referendum debate.

I live in the North East of England, so maybe we're just more Eurosceptic up here.

That's actually kinda surprising, I would have thought the North of England would be more pro-EU.

I would have liked to have thought that is the sort of place where much of the EU project money goes. Cause, well, that would be part of the point, right?

Anecdotally - but is anyone else getting surprise from pro EU supporters when they are shown the documents where the federalisation of the EU is the primary aim of the organisation?

I'm more and more certain that the majority who vote in this referendum are assuming their vote is for something else (for or against negotiated deals on minor points of EU policy).

I'm damn sure that the government and the media are deliberately playing down the EU end game.

The European Project is about empire building. Always has been. Its an economic power bloc, and sooner or later it'll be a military power bloc too.

This is our last chance to leave the European Union peacefully, before Europe is too integrated and Federalised. A Civil War broke out in America when the South tried to secede. We might be able to leave now without bloodshed, but what about after another 50 or 100 years of integration, federalisation and transfer of national sovereignty? Hell, even now, Spain is sabre rattling and threatening to take back Gibraltar (empty threats I'm sure).

Just thought i'd mention this - everyone who i've talked to about the EU referendum has said they are voting 'out'; the people who started saying 'in' quickly changed their minds when i showed them the appropriate bits in that 'five presidents report'.

Nobody wants to be part of the 'united states of europe-land'.

I put it to my sister that you can physically fit britain inside every state within America, yet who has more say internationally - texas or britain?

 SirDonlad wrote:
I put it to my sister that you can physically fit britain inside every state within America, yet who has more say internationally - texas or britain?

However, Texas has a minute population compared to the UK, or the USA as a whole. Why would they have a say internationally and indeed why would they need a say internationally when they are already a part of one of the largest international players?

Ad hominem, passive aggressive? Did you not see my smiley?
It was meant in good humour, however, as SCE was offended by my remarks, I withdraw them in good faith and apologise.

Interesting times for the Tory Party. IDS out of the cabinet, which might led to more damaging revelations, now that he's not bound by cabinet responsibility.

Cameron is definitely looking rattled. It's game on for the referendum.

 SilverMK2 wrote:

However, Texas has a minute population compared to the UK..

Texas: 27-ish Million

UK: 65 Million


Surely not minute? Obviously less than but if Texas to UK is minute then wouldn't UK to Russia be minute?


Just a touch of Texan pride. I agree with your point.

 r_squared wrote:
Ad hominem, passive aggressive? Did you not see my smiley? It was meant in good humour, however, as SCE was offended by my remarks, I withdraw them in good faith and apologise.

I did, and I interpreted it as sarcasm. For about the last week, you've been on a petty little personal crusade ranting about the Daily Mail this and the Daily Mail that, making personal insults and sweeping generalisations about people who read it and discuss its articles for days after everybody else stopped talking about the original DM story that sparked the argument ("The Queen backs Brexit!"). Theres nothing remotely "good faith" about spending a week making personal insults about people in this thread who dare to refer to a newspaper you dislike. I strongly dislike The Guardian, but I would never spend a week making petty and personal insults because someone cited an article.

You've already been warned once by a mod about the number #1 rule, and bringing up the Daily Mail every time someone makes a Euro-sceptic remark is dragging the thread back off topic to your personal pet peeve and lowering the tone of debate so please knock it off.

I specifically acknowledged from the beginning that my remark was purely an anecdote. If you were arguing in good faith, you would have responded with an anecdote of your own about whether your own acquaintances are majority No or majority Yes. Instead you made yet another insult.

 SirDonlad wrote:

I put it to my sister that you can physically fit britain inside every state within America, yet who has more say internationally - texas or britain?

The UK is larger than Rhode Island good sir.

And Hawaii.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 r_squared wrote:
Ad hominem, passive aggressive? Did you not see my smiley? It was meant in good humour, however, as SCE was offended by my remarks, I withdraw them in good faith and apologise.

I did, and I interpreted it as sarcasm. For about the last week, you've been on a petty little personal crusade ranting about the Daily Mail this and the Daily Mail that, making personal insults and sweeping generalisations about people who read it and discuss its articles for days after everybody else stopped talking about the original DM story that sparked the argument ("The Queen backs Brexit!"). Theres nothing remotely "good faith" about spending a week making personal insults about people in this thread who dare to refer to a newspaper you dislike. I strongly dislike The Guardian, but I would never spend a week making petty and personal insults because someone cited an article.

You've already been warned once by a mod about the number #1 rule, and bringing up the Daily Mail every time someone makes a Euro-sceptic remark is dragging the thread back off topic to your personal pet peeve and lowering the tone of debate so please knock it off.

I specifically acknowledged from the beginning that my remark was purely an anecdote. If you were arguing in good faith, you would have responded with an anecdote of your own about whether your own acquaintances are majority No or majority Yes. Instead you made yet another insult.

OK, if you're going to get you're panties in a bunch, crack on.

As it happens, I think using the daily mail as a source for world news, and the basis for the formation of a worldview is incredibly blinkered. It's an appalling collection of journalistic jingoism and it needs shooting down and criticising at every turn.
Tabloids are generally pretty bad, but the DM fails because it tries to gloss itself with a veneer of middle class respectability. You appear to like it, that's on you, but I'm not going to stop criticising the paper because you take it personally.
I apologised for my attempt at humour earlier, you've refused it. Again, that's upto you. I'm sure you'll report me to a mod again when you feel personally insulted.

At the moment only one of you is approaching a warning, and it isn't Shadow Captain. Pull your head in. You can disagree with the Daily Mail, as a lot of us do, without being rude to other users about it, and using their reading/posting of it to try and dismiss their contributions to the thread. That's all that's to be said about that in thread, now move on.

For the record, I didn't actually see the latest post by r_squared until after Motyak posted just now. I certainly haven't reported it.

So, no, you're digging this hole all on you're own.

 Scrabb wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:

However, Texas has a minute population compared to the UK..

Texas: 27-ish Million

UK: 65 Million


Surely not minute? Obviously less than but if Texas to UK is minute then wouldn't UK to Russia be minute?


Just a touch of Texan pride. I agree with your point.

My error; for some reason I was remembering Texas having far fewer people than that!

Grey Templar wrote:

 SirDonlad wrote:

I put it to my sister that you can physically fit britain inside every state within America, yet who has more say internationally - texas or britain?

The UK is larger than Rhode Island good sir.

Egad, you're right, damn and blast!

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:And Hawaii.

My apologies to rhode island and hawaii for being ignorant of thier inclusion/existence in this regard.