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2016/04/25 11:44:58
Subject: Re:EU referendum June 23rd! Should Britain stay or go?
It's also wrong as it implies that we already have a trade deal - which is not the case.
So without a free trade deal we have the current amount of trade with the USA - if we leave and the USA does put us to the back of the queue (which I doubt it will) we'll still not a have free trade deal, so it'd be logical to presume that things would carry on as they are.
His implication was that if we leave the EU things would be worse for us, but that simply isn't true. And as has been said none of this would be Obamas decision anyway - it might not even be the democrats, so how can he say where we would come in the 'queue'?
And do we really believe that the USA only handles one set of negotiations at once? If so how have the managed to get the deals with Cuba that were recently announced whilst it's been hammering out the deal with the EU? Or do we believe that the USA put Cuba ahead of it's deal with the EU?
I actually don't care that he came here to say this, I just think that his opinion is worth nothing more than 'Ted - the New York based Starbucks Employee' as he'll have as much input into the negotiation as this hypothetical Ted.
2016/04/25 21:00:14
Subject: EU referendum June 23rd! Should Britain stay or go?
For instance, everyone complaining about the visit and the various statements and any sort of interference that way. I just went 'blergh.' - After all, the House of Commons recently had a debate to ban a potential Presidential Candidate from entering the country.
On the other hand, the whole "back of the queue" thing - There's apparently only one other trade negotiation right now. - With the EU. As for, how well even that's going, seems to be up for debate.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/25 21:00:35
2016/04/25 21:06:00
Subject: Re:EU referendum June 23rd! Should Britain stay or go?
For the record, I'm not infavour of "banning" presidential candidates (much less actual presidents). I just think it was an insulting move and poor judgement on Obama's part.
2016/04/25 21:07:08
Subject: EU referendum June 23rd! Should Britain stay or go?
I'm hoping the current trade deal with the US will fail or be scuppered or drastically altered. (TTIP, I'm talking about). But people shouldn't see it as something imposed by Brussels - your MEPs and Cameron et al are all in favour.
We want to put a stop to crap like this we've gotta vote left.
The point ya'll are missing is that... Obama is damn hypocrite in the worst ways.
President Obama and his flunkies bitched and moaned about Benjamen Netanyahu's anti-Iran speech in front of Congress...
But, its evidently totes cool for President Obama to, ahem, encourage a rejection of a BREXIT.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: I think its bloody insulting for any foreign figures to be jetting in and interfering in our referendum to lecture us on how we should vote, whether its the POTUS in favour of Remain or Le Own in favour of Leave.
By all means, speak your mind, but do it in your own fething country.
Its like David Cameron flying to the united states shortly before the next presidential campaign and lecturing Americans on xenophobia.
Indeed.
But, hey... keep in mind that the likes of Obama and Clinton are "to the left of the political spectrum" with respect to centralize government control.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: How is it arrogance to tell a country that won't cooperate that cooperation won't happen as easily? If anything, the UK expecting that leaving will lead to no negative consequences at all is naïve at best.
Because it's a blatant lie, designed to coerce voters in another country into voting for American interests. The'negative consequences' he is outlining are a misstatement at best and obvious deception at worst. Why?
I really don't understand it either... it's like he's trying to rebuild his image abroad, or something. Or, that he lacks the understanding of the UK-to-EU dynamics.
I sure as feth don't understand...
Firstly, because Obama is on the way out. The door is about to hit his arse as he steps through the doorframe from the Oval Office. By the time the referendum is held and the ramifications begin to percolate, what Obama thinks is important will become irrelevant.
Yup. Can't wait.
Secondly, America, like all nations, operates on realpolitik, and once the decision has been made to leave, will not feel itself bound by previous comments (and will thus continue to treat us much as they ever have done, aka however best suits their interests at the time). They won't slow relations for GB because Obama said they would.
Absolutely correct. I can't foresee anything negative, relationshipnal-wise, between the UK and the US.
Thirdly, the concept that there's a 'queue' for American diplomacy is laughable. You guys do have more than one employee keeping the lights on I would assume. The Foreign Office can handle more than one set of negotiations at a time, y'know?
Wait a minute... WAIT A MINUTE! I thought all Brits know how to 'queue'???
Seriously though, yes it's laughable and what Obama implied was appalling.
It's basically fifty shades of Conservative over here.
Translation: The British definition of Left Wing is so Left Wing that we regard Communists as moderate Leftists.
Agreed, in Britain Corbyn is basically a nazi.......
You're probably being sarcastic there, and yet that statement is inadvertently not far from the truth. Their full name was the National Socialists after all...
2016/04/25 22:41:58
Subject: EU referendum June 23rd! Should Britain stay or go?
It's basically fifty shades of Conservative over here.
Translation: The British definition of Left Wing is so Left Wing that we regard Communists as moderate Leftists.
Agreed, in Britain Corbyn is basically a nazi.......
You're probably being sarcastic there, and yet that statement is inadvertently not far from the truth. Their full name was the National Socialists after all...
Sure. If we ignore all their actual actions whilst in power and base it entirely off their name, the Nazis could be regarded as being left-wing
Though actually their full name was Nationalist Socialist German Workers Party, or NSDAP.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/25 22:43:46
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
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2016/04/25 22:42:15
Subject: EU referendum June 23rd! Should Britain stay or go?
It's basically fifty shades of Conservative over here.
Translation: The British definition of Left Wing is so Left Wing that we regard Communists as moderate Leftists.
Agreed, in Britain Corbyn is basically a nazi.......
You're probably being sarcastic there, and yet that statement is inadvertently not far from the truth. Their full name was the National Socialists after all...
I was being a little bit sarcastic.
Then again, the Nazis were so right wing they occasionally came up on the left hand side after going the long way around the political spectrum.
DS:90-S+G+++M++B-IPw40k03+D+A++/fWD-R++T(T)DM+ Warmachine MKIII record 39W/0D/6L
2016/04/25 22:43:09
Subject: EU referendum June 23rd! Should Britain stay or go?
I don't particularly like Corbyn..... But he isn't that bad.
Then again, I voted Tory twice...... I feel so dirty.....
Corbyn is so hopelessly out of his depth, it's embarrassing. All he's done is greenlight a bunch of Entryists and any remotely leftwing loony with an axe to grind to re-join and make trouble.
As for voting tory, I feel a little guilty too. Not because I voted for them, but because I was expecting a typical tory approach to government - lower taxes, reduction in the state and a healthy dose of EU-skepticism. So far, Osbornes outspent McBroon massively increasing our debt, moved money about whilst failing to reduce the state and then there's the whole referendum debacle...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/25 22:43:49
2016/04/26 00:48:45
Subject: EU referendum June 23rd! Should Britain stay or go?
zedmeister wrote: So far, Osbornes outspent McBroon massively increasing our debt, moved money about whilst failing to reduce the state and then there's the whole referendum debacle...
Osborne stopped working on the agenda of the Great British public the minute the Lib Dems left Government and no-one was around to monitor his control of the purse strings. All of his spending decisions these days are influenced by a) what's good for the Conservative party (giving tax breaks to the old and well off because they vote the most, and corporate donors for obvious reasons), and b) what's good for Osborne (going back to PFI and various other financial deceptions to try and make himself look good before he jumps into the ring as Cameron's successor). What's good for Britain comes a distant c).
He clearly hoped that our economy would pick up enough by now that he wouldn't have to squeeze the middle and lower classes too much, but now that hope is shot, he's more or less shrugged and got on with doing just that. The only other alternatives would mess with priorities a) and b), and he can't have that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/26 00:49:34
2016/04/26 15:40:18
Subject: EU referendum June 23rd! Should Britain stay or go?
Finally getting around to reading the Five President's Report, and I can't get over the fact that they seriously refer to the union as 'EMU', leading to rather hilarious statements such as "a deep and genuine EMU". It sounds like a line from a dating site for birds.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/26 15:40:48
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
2016/04/26 15:47:05
Subject: EU referendum June 23rd! Should Britain stay or go?
Avatar 720 wrote: Finally getting around to reading the Five President's Report, and I can't get over the fact that they seriously refer to the union as 'EMU', leading to rather hilarious statements such as "a deep and genuine EMU". It sounds like a line from a dating site for birds.
2016/04/26 16:10:14
Subject: EU referendum June 23rd! Should Britain stay or go?
I don't particularly like Corbyn..... But he isn't that bad.
Then again, I voted Tory twice...... I feel so dirty.....
Corbyn is so hopelessly out of his depth, it's embarrassing. All he's done is greenlight a bunch of Entryists and any remotely leftwing loony with an axe to grind to re-join and make trouble.
As for voting tory, I feel a little guilty too. Not because I voted for them, but because I was expecting a typical tory approach to government - lower taxes, reduction in the state and a healthy dose of EU-skepticism. So far, Osbornes outspent McBroon massively increasing our debt, moved money about whilst failing to reduce the state and then there's the whole referendum debacle...
And people wonder why I vote SNP! Who can blame me for wanting out of the UK.
zedmeister wrote: So far, Osbornes outspent McBroon massively increasing our debt, moved money about whilst failing to reduce the state and then there's the whole referendum debacle...
Osborne stopped working on the agenda of the Great British public the minute the Lib Dems left Government and no-one was around to monitor his control of the purse strings. All of his spending decisions these days are influenced by a) what's good for the Conservative party (giving tax breaks to the old and well off because they vote the most, and corporate donors for obvious reasons), and b) what's good for Osborne (going back to PFI and various other financial deceptions to try and make himself look good before he jumps into the ring as Cameron's successor). What's good for Britain comes a distant c).
He clearly hoped that our economy would pick up enough by now that he wouldn't have to squeeze the middle and lower classes too much, but now that hope is shot, he's more or less shrugged and got on with doing just that. The only other alternatives would mess with priorities a) and b), and he can't have that.
I believe that the next Tory leader will be a Euro-Sceptic. The division in the Tory party over this EU referendum will take years to heal. Osborne has no chance of becoming the next Conservative leader.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/26 16:12:10
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2016/04/26 18:13:49
Subject: EU referendum June 23rd! Should Britain stay or go?
Muttermutter people who voted for the tories should certainly feel bad given their terrible governance, but it's not like Labour was looking particularly credible either muttermutter.
Da Boss wrote: Muttermutter people who voted for the tories should certainly feel bad given their terrible governance, but it's not like Labour was looking particularly credible either muttermutter.
I'm not particularly impressed with Cam & co, but I still remain convinced Millibean would have been just as bad, and Broon an utter disaster.
I just wish we could go back to another lib dem/tory coalition, I think it was the most functional government we've had in twenty years. Unofrtunately, I don't see it happening.
2016/04/26 19:59:15
Subject: Re:EU referendum June 23rd! Should Britain stay or go?
The point ya'll are missing is that... Obama is damn hypocrite in the worst ways.
President Obama and his flunkies bitched and moaned about Benjamen Netanyahu's anti-Iran speech in front of Congress...
But, its evidently totes cool for President Obama to, ahem, encourage a rejection of a BREXIT.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: I think its bloody insulting for any foreign figures to be jetting in and interfering in our referendum to lecture us on how we should vote, whether its the POTUS in favour of Remain or Le Own in favour of Leave.
By all means, speak your mind, but do it in your own fething country.
Its like David Cameron flying to the united states shortly before the next presidential campaign and lecturing Americans on xenophobia.
Indeed.
But, hey... keep in mind that the likes of Obama and Clinton are "to the left of the political spectrum" with respect to centralize government control.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: How is it arrogance to tell a country that won't cooperate that cooperation won't happen as easily? If anything, the UK expecting that leaving will lead to no negative consequences at all is naïve at best.
Because it's a blatant lie, designed to coerce voters in another country into voting for American interests. The'negative consequences' he is outlining are a misstatement at best and obvious deception at worst. Why?
I really don't understand it either... it's like he's trying to rebuild his image abroad, or something. Or, that he lacks the understanding of the UK-to-EU dynamics.
I sure as feth don't understand...
Firstly, because Obama is on the way out. The door is about to hit his arse as he steps through the doorframe from the Oval Office. By the time the referendum is held and the ramifications begin to percolate, what Obama thinks is important will become irrelevant.
Yup. Can't wait.
Secondly, America, like all nations, operates on realpolitik, and once the decision has been made to leave, will not feel itself bound by previous comments (and will thus continue to treat us much as they ever have done, aka however best suits their interests at the time). They won't slow relations for GB because Obama said they would.
Absolutely correct. I can't foresee anything negative, relationshipnal-wise, between the UK and the US.
Thirdly, the concept that there's a 'queue' for American diplomacy is laughable. You guys do have more than one employee keeping the lights on I would assume. The Foreign Office can handle more than one set of negotiations at a time, y'know?
Wait a minute... WAIT A MINUTE! I thought all Brits know how to 'queue'???
Seriously though, yes it's laughable and what Obama implied was appalling.
It's basically fifty shades of Conservative over here.
O.o
...I
wut... um...
huh?
Interesting links. Thanks.
I'll be honest with you - I had high hopes for Obama 8 years ago when he took office. I really thought he'd shake things up a bit for the better. Guess I fell for the hype. Like I said, Clinton in bed with corporate interests is no surprise, but I thought Obama would understand what it's like for the little guy facing the system.
Now, I don't think it's a conspiracy, but I think there's a serious attempt by governments and corporate interests to force their agenda on the rest of all and then call it progress.
The USA and the EU are in talks over TTIP. The USA is also in talks over the trans-pacific partnership agreement with many Asian countries.
Is it such a leap of the imagination to see the EU, the USA, and the Asian partnership combine into one gigantic free trade zone?
Absolutely not!
And who benefiets from that? Certainly not ordinary people like us!
That is my great fear for the future. That's one of the reasons I want out of the EU.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2016/04/26 20:01:43
Subject: EU referendum June 23rd! Should Britain stay or go?
Da Boss wrote: I wish you guys would stay IN the EU and lead the charge against TTIP. But your government is as bad as ours, in that regard. So frustrating!
The worse thing is you can't even rely on the opposition to oppose TTIP.
Corbyn has spent a lifetime attacking the EEC and the EU, but now he's fighting to stay in the EU! WTF?
Corbyn can't be relied upon to opppose TTIP.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2016/04/26 20:15:33
Subject: EU referendum June 23rd! Should Britain stay or go?
Da Boss wrote: I wish you guys would stay IN the EU and lead the charge against TTIP. But your government is as bad as ours, in that regard. So frustrating!
What charge? There are precious few mainstream parties opposing it so far as I know. Certainly in the UK, all the major parties support it.
2016/04/26 21:06:12
Subject: EU referendum June 23rd! Should Britain stay or go?
Corbyn has come out against it, actually. But I agree, he should be making stronger statements against it!
There are parties in Europe who are against it - Die Linke and the Greens are against it and have made strong statements against it.
The more "mainstream" labour parties across europe have been bought though.
The main groundswell of opposition is from citizens, disrupting meetings (often with hilarious songs) and engaging in protests and lobbying. Germany actually has some of the highest levels of dissent about it.
We're voting on our membership of the EU not NATO. And we've had near-war in Ukraine and the EU response amounted to hand-wringing and some economic sanctions. This is just more over the top desperation from Cameron, will he say anything to frighten people into voting in (and saving his own neck because a vote out will likely finish him).
2016/05/09 16:53:10
Subject: EU referendum June 23rd! Should Britain stay or go?
I think the current state and future goals of the EU makes war more likely actually. EU bureaucrats are engaging in empire building, and trying to expand the EU eastwards (i.e. Ukraine) which encroaches on the traditional Russian sphere of influence in Eastern Europe. Rightly or wrongly, the Kremlin views that as a threat to Russian National Security. They do love their buffer states.
NATO is or was enough to keep Russia in check. But Russia fears a unified European superpower.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/09 16:54:24
