Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

What? No. The idea was to mollify Nationalists with increased devolution to stave off the threat of secession. There is no Nationalistic desire for the North of England to break away from the rest of England, so why do we need a seperate assembly?

And you're overlooking the fact that we had a referendum on a Northern assembly and the North East overwhelmingly voted against it (well, the 50% who could be bothered to vote). Are you saying we should have a Northern England assembly whether we want one or not?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Very sad to see the Guardian newspaper make political capital out of this tragedy by blaming Farage for this poor woman's death. I feel disgusted...and I don't even like Farage...

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Very sad to see the Guardian newspaper make political capital out of this tragedy by blaming Farage for this poor woman's death. I feel disgusted...and I don't even like Farage...

This is gutter politics.

On the on hand, we've got champagne socialists like Geldof who are gonna pounce on this to label UKIP, Farage, Gove, Johnson and the rest of Leave as murderous fascists.
And on the other, we're going to have the inevitable conspiracy theories claiming it was a False Flag planned by the Remain side to rig the election.

To be fething honest, we should probably just delay the referendum for a year. Its a utter fething mess and the murder of Jo Cox has made this whole saga into a very dark and ugly period of British history.

this was an opinion of the advocate general at the European Court of Justice (CJEU), not a ruling, and was made under the EU Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, not human rights laws. The opinion – subject to a final ruling by the CJEU which would then be applied by a UK court – said that the deportation would breach the son’s right under the treaty to genuine enjoyment of the substance of his EU citizenship unless the UK could show that the mother’s conduct posed a serious threat to public security.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Very sad to see the Guardian newspaper make political capital out of this tragedy by blaming Farage for this poor woman's death. I feel disgusted...and I don't even like Farage...

 SirDonlad wrote:
What does the European declaration of human rights cover that the universal declaration of human rights decided on by the united nations doesn't?

From a legal perspective it allows EU based legislators to overrule the British justice system on any matter they deem affected by said 'declaration'.

Not that they even need that to interfere to our detriment...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12142702/Moroccan-criminal-fighting-deportation-is-Abu-Hamzas-daughter-in-law-a-Tory-MP-reveals.html

this was an opinion of the advocate general at the European Court of Justice (CJEU), not a ruling, and was made under the EU Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, not human rights laws. The opinion – subject to a final ruling by the CJEU which would then be applied by a UK court – said that the deportation would breach the son’s right under the treaty to genuine enjoyment of the substance of his EU citizenship unless the UK could show that the mother’s conduct posed a serious threat to public security.

edit: jeez, thread moved on fast while i was typing...

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
There's no such thing as a "European declaration of human rights", and if you're talking about the European Convention on Human Rights, what does it have to do with the EU? I'm pretty sure this has ALSO been covered at least three times already in this thread.

 notprop wrote:
£35k really isn't any great sum to earn I the South. Lower wage position can easily be filled by the existing unemployed already here.

 notprop wrote:
My Mrs is a teacher and earns more than £35k as do the majority of her colleagues, some substantially more.

It is not a huge sum for a professional to attain.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
What the hell happened to British journalism? I have never felt this disgusted in a long time...

 Goliath wrote:

 notprop wrote:
My Mrs is a teacher and earns more than £35k as do the majority of her colleagues, some substantially more.

It is not a huge sum for a professional to attain.

I'm guessing this fits into your "Wages in the south" comment.
Not everywhere can be the south or London. Most areas in the country do not have that level of pay for teachers.

 Goliath wrote:

 notprop wrote:
My Mrs is a teacher and earns more than £35k as do the majority of her colleagues, some substantially more.

It is not a huge sum for a professional to attain.

I'm guessing this fits into your "Wages in the south" comment.
Not everywhere can be the south or London. Most areas in the country do not have that level of pay for teachers.

 notprop wrote:

 Goliath wrote:

 notprop wrote:
My Mrs is a teacher and earns more than £35k as do the majority of her colleagues, some substantially more.

It is not a huge sum for a professional to attain.

I'm guessing this fits into your "Wages in the south" comment.
Not everywhere can be the south or London. Most areas in the country do not have that level of pay for teachers.

Pay for teachers is pretty much standardised (unions and all), with London weighting added if you are n that catchment. It only varies with experience, time served and management points from what I understand; there's also premiums added to entice teachers to particular schools. Pro rata in additional holiday allocation over other trades and the comparative salary will increase by nearly another 20%.

No sorry, I don't buy the poor teacher shtick or the poor Northerner one for that matter as costs are relative.

 notprop wrote:
And what I'm saying is that it really won't be very hard for them to attain it. Don't hang off the last 3 words and ignore the rest!

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Thats exactly what I expected. I wonder whether the guy was a cannabis user too. Drugs and mental illness are two very common factors in murders like this. (The Lee Rigby murders for instance were cannabis users, according to Peter Hitchens at the Mail on Sunday).

Right I need to go to sleep! Been reading and replying to your Referendum comments for over an hour! There are still so many undecided people and that is the fault of both of the ineffectual campaigns.

Best of luck finding what you think is the right way to go, read what you can, even in publications you don't usually agree with. Try and read what people are saying even if you hate everything they stand for. Chat to your friends and family and even your children-at the end of the day, it's a decision that affects them the most.

Most importantly though, just be kind. Just because someone is voting Leave it doesn't make them an uneducated racist. And just because someone is voting Remain doesn't mean they're naive sheep! Be thankful that we live in a country where we are allowed to vote at all and be proud of our ancestors who got us this far.

The truth is, nobody knows anything! It's largely guess work and even the people who appear the most knowledgeable, those leaders who've let us down so badly, those who are using it for political gain and point scoring really don't know either. Nobody knows the future. The most important thing is, that you vote, for something, either way. That way you can look the next generation in the eye and say 'well, At least did something. I read what I could, I tried my best to understand it, I went with a gut feeling and I did it for you, for your future'.

Best of luck to you all,

Gnight,

Jason

 zedmeister wrote:
Just saw this passed around on Facebook by that Comedian, Jason Manford. Funny bloke and this comment is spot on:

Right I need to go to sleep! Been reading and replying to your Referendum comments for over an hour! There are still so many undecided people and that is the fault of both of the ineffectual campaigns.

Best of luck finding what you think is the right way to go, read what you can, even in publications you don't usually agree with. Try and read what people are saying even if you hate everything they stand for. Chat to your friends and family and even your children-at the end of the day, it's a decision that affects them the most.

Most importantly though, just be kind. Just because someone is voting Leave it doesn't make them an uneducated racist. And just because someone is voting Remain doesn't mean they're naive sheep! Be thankful that we live in a country where we are allowed to vote at all and be proud of our ancestors who got us this far.

The truth is, nobody knows anything! It's largely guess work and even the people who appear the most knowledgeable, those leaders who've let us down so badly, those who are using it for political gain and point scoring really don't know either. Nobody knows the future. The most important thing is, that you vote, for something, either way. That way you can look the next generation in the eye and say 'well, At least did something. I read what I could, I tried my best to understand it, I went with a gut feeling and I did it for you, for your future'.

Best of luck to you all,

Gnight,

Jason

Don't abstain - Vote!

Edit:

Just like to add, that I get the feeling that this vote really has engaged the nation. Was in the pub the other night and I heard plenty of debate getting bandied about. Even with my mates, three of us, I was for Leave, one was for remain and one was for don't know. There was plenty of debate going on. Usually, with General Elections, there's a feeling that you're voting for the same shade of grey. With the referendum, it does feel like you can make a difference. It's something that the main parties should take note of. Ideology is not dead, just ignored...

Rosebuddy wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Thats exactly what I expected. I wonder whether the guy was a cannabis user too. Drugs and mental illness are two very common factors in murders like this. (The Lee Rigby murders for instance were cannabis users, according to Peter Hitchens at the Mail on Sunday).

I bet he drinks alcohol, too, and wears shoes and likes to eat spaghetti. His far-right politics obviously have nothing to do with it. He was mentally ill and smoked pot and we all know what those people are like.

The ambassadors of the 28 European Union member states had agreed to secrecy. "Under no circumstances" should the public learn what was said at the talks that took place on March 23rd, the European Commission warned during the meeting of the Permanent Representatives Committee. A staff member of EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs Federica Mogherini even warned that Europe's reputation could be at stake.

Under the heading "TOP 37: Country fiches," the leading diplomats that day discussed a plan that the EU member states had agreed to: They would work together with dictatorships around the Horn of Africa in order to stop the refugee flows to Europe -- under Germany's leadership.

 zedmeister wrote:
Bloody hell, this is a daming scoop on the EU

The ambassadors of the 28 European Union member states had agreed to secrecy. "Under no circumstances" should the public learn what was said at the talks that took place on March 23rd, the European Commission warned during the meeting of the Permanent Representatives Committee. A staff member of EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs Federica Mogherini even warned that Europe's reputation could be at stake.

Under the heading "TOP 37: Country fiches," the leading diplomats that day discussed a plan that the EU member states had agreed to: They would work together with dictatorships around the Horn of Africa in order to stop the refugee flows to Europe -- under Germany's leadership.

Yes, great idea, lets work with and give legitimacy to dictators, war criminals, repressive regimes and other scumbags to stop migrants. And how do you think these scumbags will stop migrants? Gaol? Beatings? State sponsored murder? Pick one...