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I, and others have said it often: Warp Spiders are arguably the best unit the game. I had already planned on getting another 20 in addition to the 9 I was running. Ran 18 at LVO. Far more often than not, they excel the WraithKnight for my MVPs. Now I'm think I'm going to try and push into 60+. The LVO winning list had 45 WarpS, so it's certainly time to join that bandwagon!

This is for ITC FAQ and mission tourneys, 1850 for now. At 1650 the list would still be 63 WarpS but only two *jet* bike units. At 1500 it's two jetbike units and 54 WarpS with maybe a Jet-lock for the HQ.

C.A.D.
Farseer on Jetbike or Warp-Autarch (gotta convert a model for "fluff" )

Scatbikes x3
Scatbikes x3
Scatbikes x3

Fast Attack
Swooping Hawks x6, including exarch
Swooping Hawks x6, including exarch
Warp Spiders x9, including exarch

Aspect Host
Warp Spiders x9, including exarch
Warp Spiders x9, including exarch
Warp Spiders x9, including exarch


Aspect Host
Warp Spiders x9, including exarch
Warp Spiders x9, including exarch
Warp Spiders x9, including exarch

Tried it once at 1650 and it did well vs. Dark Eldar/Eldar Talos/Corpse Thief/WK. Opponent was going to be tabled by beginning of 5 but conceded Turn 4.

Weaknesses?

Slaanesh formation with a herald that has the Locus adding +5 initiative to a bunch of seekers and chariots. Other loci could also grant these units move through cover and reroll to hits.

Or do warp spiders get to wound vs Toughness rather than initiative if it's more beneficial to them?

Other than that, Flickerjump is real good. Don't know of any other potential weaknesses.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
Slaanesh formation with a herald that has the Locus adding +5 initiative to a bunch of seekers and chariots. Other loci could also grant these units move through cover and reroll to hits.

This does sound like a nasty counter to DeathSpinners. And it's a good thing for me no one runs such a list.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
Or do warp spiders get to wound vs Toughness rather than initiative if it's more beneficial to them?

Oh, no. Don't type something like that. GW will put it in for them on the next RetCon codex! They're already broken!

Srsly, no, DeathSpinners only line up against Init. Having choice to go against T would not be great, but would mitigate against Slaanesh and enemy elves.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
Other than that, Flickerjump is real good. Don't know of any other potential weaknesses.

Flickerjump was really great on LVO tables.

Why not make that fast attack slot an aspect host as well?

marcman wrote:
Why not make that fast attack slot an aspect host as well?

Because ITC tournament build limitations are one CAD and two detachments.

I love it! its amazing and i agree warp spiders are great. I realized that near the end of their 6th ed codex and had about 20 of them. Now that i dont lose one on EVERY double they are in every list I make. I really hope lists like this catch on and gw realizes that they would sell a lot of warp spider if they make us a PLASTIC KIT!! I know I would buy a few. I am not certain but I think the warp spiders are the oldest model in the eldar set. It at least 25+ years old! maybe some of the special chars are older. Could use a new eldrad model too. One that looks more like a farseer and less like a hump of metal and doesnt have 18 billion runes on it to paint!


For the list I would make one comment. And that is to scrap the warp spider unit in the FA slot and use the points to get as many swooping hawks as you can into those FA slots. The swooping hawks are fragile and they are the only things that can take down super heavies in your list. They'll be charging knights and all kinds of things and yu only have 12 of them ! in two 6 man units. Having at least 20-30 of them will give you a lot more anyi armor punch and they can really hurt a lot of the same targets as the warp spiders with their shooting so by switch the spiders for hawks you are really gaining more utility than you are losing. Just my opinion. I've never played in a tourny so take all this with a little salt

The biggest reason why you take 5 man spider squads is so you can hide them. By taking so many spiders in 1 squad it because almost impossible to hide then with 1 jump to get out of Los. The army may pump out more firepower but you'll also take a lot more.

Another issue I'd deep striking. Part of my success at LVO was deep striking small squads precisely where I needed them. A large footprint gives more chance to miss hap.

Next is there is nothing you can do against certain builds like a bloodthirsty with the new -1 str armour makes him completely immune to warp spiders. Then there's invisible deathstars. Without the wrsithknight you will struggle to dent them just by relying on 6s.

You also now have to deploy large points worth of models for null deployment. You would have to deploy a lot if you want to deep strike when playing sky hammer. A fully decked out sky hammer could kill a lot of your spiders turn 1. This is why 5 man squads are great because you can hide even with a small footprint of BLOS.

The list might look good on paper but just spiders won't be strong enough.

I'm surprised you're running a CAD here. Seems to me that by skirting the 3 detachment limitation but wanting a third aspect host isn't worth while. Pop in a Windrider Warhost or the soon-to-be-popular Pale Court so you can round out that third Aspect Host.

Personally I find ObSec on min-Scats to be underwhelming. They get targeted rather quickly and die rather abruptly.

@Rx8Speed
The new models are resin (2nd generation FineCast). They require more de-flashing than the older plastic GW products, but are easily workable. And I'm more gamer than hobbyist.

I only own 14 Hawks, but I have considered how to face Imp.Knights. There are also enough spiders to get in butt shots, so I think.

KillswitchUK wrote:
The biggest reason why you take 5 man spider squads is so you can hide them. By taking so many spiders in 1 squad it because almost impossible to hide then with 1 jump to get out of Los. The army may pump out more firepower but you'll also take a lot more.

And you found the balance well enough to make it work.

KillswitchUK wrote:
Another issue I'd deep striking. Part of my success at LVO was deep striking small squads precisely where I needed them.

Hello, Mr. H!

Srsly, nice to have some heavily credible advice. Congrats on the win. You and I had a minor word during LVO ... for all of like 5 seconds.

If you looked down, saw a scrawny guy with a goatee & glasses and smelled beer, that was me.

KillswitchUK wrote:
A large footprint gives more chance to miss hap.

Yes, it does. 72+ bodies does fill a deployment zone fast and should be able to reach most any target Turn 2 (except for H&A deployment). I don't plan on DSing all that much, given Spiders' speed and just how many of them there would be. If I square off against Tau on a H&A deployment, then DSing comes back into consideration. Also, one-third the time, I'll be infiltrating with the Strategic Warlord trait (a reason for the CAD, Cleged).

KillswitchUK wrote:
Next is there is nothing you can do against certain builds like a bloodthirsty with the new -1 str armour makes him completely immune to warp spiders. Then there's invisible deathstars. Without the wrsithknight you will struggle to dent them just by relying on 6s.

Agreed. I have a WK (his foot is in my avatar picture) ... and now a BThirsty can -1 STR to an enemy's gun? Derp.

KillswitchUK wrote:
You also now have to deploy large points worth of models for null deployment. You would have to deploy a lot if you want to deep strike when playing sky hammer. A fully decked out sky hammer could kill a lot of your spiders turn 1. This is why 5 man squads are great because you can hide even with a small footprint of BLOS.

I take it that smart players will skip shooting pistols to avoid losing charge range to Flickerjump? SkyH has that thing where the shot at unit ... can't Overwatch or something, correct? It's been that long since I faced SkyH.

Last BAO, actually. No one at the local RTT brings it.

KillswitchUK wrote:
The list might look good on paper but just spiders won't be strong enough.

I only own 30 spiders so the next RTT would have me bringing a lot of proxies to make this list. Putting the WK back in is a no brainer, saving on proxy-shame.

This B-thirster news has me concerned. He's likely to show up from at least one to two chaos favoring players.

KillswitchUK, can I blame you for unfluffying my list with the WraithKnight?

srsly, thanks for the advice.

It's fine dude. I do recall the goatee and beer hahaha!

Hope the advice helps. I love the idea of large squads of spiders but it's impracticable in some match ups where you don't want to lose so many. I suggest units of 6 or 7 if you want larger squads...spending the spare points on a wraithknight.

Yes the new daemons have some tough artifacts...slaanesh one for i10 to everyone is horrid...bloodthristers with the armour which gives -1 str etc. It's things like that which you have to consider playing against.

My first game was against sky hammer which was fully decked out and he went for a charge instead of shooting which is a sound tactic. Luckily I had a 3 story ruin to out 1 unit of spiders on to avoid the assault!

Hope the advice helps.

C.A.D.
Jetseer
Jetseer

Jet Bikes x3
Jet bikes x3
Scatbikes x3

Fast Attack
Swooping Hawks x6, including exarch
Swooping Hawks x6, including exarch

WraithK sword and board

Aspect Host
Warp Spiders x7, including exarch
Warp Spiders x7, including exarch
Warp Spiders x7, including exarch


Aspect Host
Warp Spiders x8, including exarch
Warp Spiders x8, including exarch
Warp Spiders x8, including exarch

1848

Spider Units are a wee bit smaller (but, I acknowledge not as small as Alex H. recommended). The WK is there to handle B-thirsters, and the psy buff is twice as strong. After I rethought b-thirsters, it'd be best to ignore the beast, except to Psychic Shriek it away like I have done a couple times before. At most, he eats 5 units, if I am dumb and unlucky?

The WK still serves as bullet magnet, although he is still a LoW maelstrom liability for his potential two points. Part of my initial list was to eliminate that worry, but if I stick to the psy choice of Runes of Fate and pick up Fortune or Telepathy to buff him with Invis or at least get Psy-Shriek. Sword and Shimmer Sheld now more than before because I helped vote his toe-in-cover away ...

I have points room and models to mix in or out the jetbikes, scats, the extra HQ, etc.

Put a few spiders in the CAD's last Fast Attack slot for MSU ? The lack of BS bump is not a big loss there.

Further tweaks?

Results:
I took this list to the monthly tourney, where we used the new (March 2016) ITC missions. This involves ... scoring that is gonna take more time for me to fully *get*. I understood how to score, but the really strategic application/change from the previous scoring method is going to need a bit more rethink. It certainly shows in that I didn't win the Maelstrom for any of the 3 Rounds. I didn't place units well, nor properly prioritize my targets to win these (and some luck involved, but mostly my player error).

I won the Primaries though. These were:
Round 1 - Crusade with DoW
Round 2 - Purge with VanGuard
Round 3 - Scouring with Hammer&A

This was thanks to going 2nd in all three games. Opponents picked that twice, thinking they'd good a good 'Alpha Strike'. They didn't. I picked going second the one time I rolled to decide. Mainly, I won the primaries using ObSec jetbikes in two of those, FTW. Mission Two was KPs and I simply was ahead there. The last mission, my opponent had no ObSec (one of the new SW lists, 40 wolf-puppies, Azrael and such) so that wasn't hard to win.

3 wins, placing 4th outta 33 guys, behind some good players (gonna NameDrop like it's HAWT) 8 points behind Reecius, a few more behind Largo33 and then Frankie G, who had 1st place.

At no time did I feel the need to Deep Strike the Spiders. I used the Hawks that way, increasing their fire power with the Grenade Pack.

Notable: We barely finished turn 3 in all of the games, 2 hour 15 minute Rounds. Opponents didn't slow play either. We were trying to crank through, but ... it's a lot of Assault Thrust dice rolls.

I see this being weak to a Ordnance Tyrant list. Those lists get a Strength 9 AP 3 large blast for 55 points and can place on their own guys even in H2H

2 hour 15 mins is very tough. I went to WTC in Croatia last year playing 50 spiders and 10 Hawks. Finished every game (and won all but last - pesky Demons...). But they were 3.5hr rounds!

 Kholzerino wrote:
2 hour 15 mins is very tough. I went to WTC in Croatia last year playing 50 spiders and 10 Hawks. Finished every game (and won all but last - pesky Demons...). But they were 3.5hr rounds!

I'm going to create a quickie checklist, make a copy for each round (or laminate), and try to curb my over-long tongue. One, for a faster start, two, opponents enjoy playing me because I'm personable, but apparently my tongue is hung in the middle and runs at both ends.

Making for longer games.

3.5 hours! Something in the EU must make for a more lax atmosphere. Color me jealous, sir.

I think I'm missing something. I know warp spiders are good......but how are they so game breaking?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I think I'm missing something. I know warp spiders are good......but how are they so game breaking?

Key things a unit needs to be good... mobility, offensive potential, resilience and price. Warp Spiders have all these.

Mobility: 6" + 2d6" movement, d6" run (and still shoot), 2d6" move in assault. That is unparalleled mobility.

Offense: Their weapons are Strength 6 (so decent against light armor vehicles) and wound against initiative. Most things don't have a high initiative and thus they wound a lot. In addition, 6s to wound are AP 2. And each warp spider can pump out 2 shots with BS 4 or 5 (5 if in the formation like OP's list). Their weapons are short range but with the above mobility, that isn't an issue.

Resilience: T 3 is not good... 3+ save is decent. But what really makes these guys annoying is their special ability to move 2d6" in response to being targeted. With good positioning, that means they can break line of sight from a potential threat and take 0 damage AND prevent that unit from targeting anything else. This is the real game-breaking part of Warp Spiders because it is an ability that NO OTHER unit has. What's worse is that the wording allows you to do this multiple times in the same phase as RAW, but most tournaments rule against this. Even without that, it's still really good.

Price: Low enough to spam.

You don't know how annoying that last ability is until you play against it.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I think I'm missing something. I know warp spiders are good......but how are they so game breaking?

A few reasons:

Wounding with an S6 weapon vs Initiative, usually meaning that you wound most things on 2s

Incredible movement for objective capping (in a warhost with a 6" auto run you have 2D6+6+6+2d6 movement (36"max movement) with relentless)

Monofiliment for pseudo rending

Flickerjumps away from enemy shooting (best in smaller units to get out of LOS)

BS5 in aspect hosts

Zimko and Torus have it right. FlickerJump (even just once a turn) is insanely good. By now, most opponents are simply skipping shooting and assaulting them. Which of course, isn't great, as Spiders also have Hit and Run.

Pretty much every TO and GT player I talk to (and I mean the GT top placers ) will grant a spot on the Top 5 Best 40k Units, to Warp Spiders.

Or the WraithKnight.

 Brothererekose wrote:
Zimko and Torus have it right. FlickerJump (even just once a turn) is insanely good. By now, most opponents are simply skipping shooting and assaulting them. Which of course, isn't great, as Spiders also have Hit and Run.

Pretty much every TO and GT player I talk to (and I mean the GT top placers ) will grant a spot on the Top 5 Best 40k Units, to Warp Spiders.

Or the WraithKnight.

Really? I'd have opted for the scatter bike, cheap, fastest unit in the game, objective secured and dakka enough to make an loota blush...

Don't get me wrong the flicker jump is amazing but after using it you lose out on the 2d6+6 movement for the turn and the effectiveness of the flicker jump only shines when there is a plethora of LOS blocking terrain

 Torus wrote:

 Brothererekose wrote:
Zimko and Torus have it right. FlickerJump (even just once a turn) is insanely good. By now, most opponents are simply skipping shooting and assaulting them. Which of course, isn't great, as Spiders also have Hit and Run.

Pretty much every TO and GT player I talk to (and I mean the GT top placers ) will grant a spot on the Top 5 Best 40k Units, to Warp Spiders.

Or the WraithKnight.

Really? I'd have opted for the scatter bike, cheap, fastest unit in the game, objective secured and dakka enough to make an loota blush...

Don't get me wrong the flicker jump is amazing but after using it you lose out on the 2d6+6 movement for the turn and the effectiveness of the flicker jump only shines when there is a plethora of LOS blocking terrain

Scatter bike is certainly the best Troops choice in the game but if the game you're playing isn't objectives then it can fall short. Defensively they're quite fragile if they're caught and many units can weather their damage. To necrons, for example, they're just annoying. A unit of Tomb Blades can catch them in assault and prevent them from doing anything.

Warp Spiders however are a threat no matter the mission, and no matter the opponent. There isn't a single list out there that isn't weary of Warp Spiders. Even if you can catch them in melee, they can Hit and Run. If you somehow managed to line up a shot after their insane mobility, they can dodge the shot with a flicker jump. And even if you bring the toughest units in the game... Wraithknights, flying tyrants or D-Thirsters... they can still wound you AND evade you. That's why they rate so high.

I see this having trouble with a renegades army. The fact they can take 18 baskalisk platforms for only 990 and can shoot their own guys with it would hurt you. Hell they can have that and 200 guys and only be at 1600 points

Ok. After reading all this I can definitely see the worth to spiders. They seem very good. Question - if they use flicker jump then does their movement phase movement become the simple 6"? Or is it more??

It's a shame I hate the models so much as the rules are pretty cool. Perhaps I've finally found a purpose for shadow spectre models.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Ok. After reading all this I can definitely see the worth to spiders. They seem very good. Question - if they use flicker jump then does their movement phase movement become the simple 6"? Or is it more??

It's a shame I hate the models so much as the rules are pretty cool. Perhaps I've finally found a purpose for shadow spectre models.

@Zimko, I'm with ya! I'd put the Scatbike in that Top 5 list too. I'm never surprised at the amount of griping eldar receive, having arguably, the best 3 units in the game.


@Khaine's W
The movement becomes basic infantry 6" for that turn. They're still strategically good with Battle Focus and then the Assault Jump, too.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Ok. After reading all this I can definitely see the worth to spiders. They seem very good. Question - if they use flicker jump then does their movement phase movement become the simple 6"? Or is it more??

It's a shame I hate the models so much as the rules are pretty cool. Perhaps I've finally found a purpose for shadow spectre models.

Well. Their movement becomes 6", plus run move (auto 6' in warhost or fleet otherwise) plus 2d6 assault move after shooting. But this is why the deep strike beta strike thing works so well.

Warp Spiders have been the strongest unit in the game of 40k for some time now. I always struggled to understand why people thought scatbikes were the big shock of the codex.

If you just fielded Warp Spiders and Swooping Hawks you could expect to win pretty much every game of 40k. Maybe 5 Imperial Knights might be tricky. I stress "maybe" cos you can still strip hull points on a with the spiders.

Especially when you realise there is the "Warhosts of the Pale Court" detachment in Doom of Mymeara that lets you take 1 Autarch and 3 squads of one aspect as a a detachment. Just Crazy.

ConanMan wrote:
Warp Spiders have been the strongest unit in the game of 40k for some time now. I always struggled to understand why people thought scatbikes were the big shock of the codex.

If you just fielded Warp Spiders and Swooping Hawks you could expect to win pretty much every game of 40k. Maybe 5 Imperial Knights might be tricky. I stress "maybe" cos you can still strip hull points on a with the spiders.

Hawks largely wreck Knights in combat, btw.

Dropped the list to 1650 because next month's RTT is gonna be at that point level.

Farseer onna bike.

x2 Minimum jetbikes
x2 Hawk six-packs
WK - h2h

Aspect host Spider numbers:
7, 7, 7
and
7, 8, 8

I defeated a 4 Imp. Knight list, versus a smarter opponent (most of my opponents are msarter than me ). I killed two of them, and then had a Cat-and-Mouse standoff Turns 2 through 6.

I pulled off a 7-3 win (ITC mission #5). We tied Maelstrom, had Ground Breaker each, but I had Crusade.

I made many mistakes. If I were a sharp, smart player ...

Read this article.. it will help you.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/03/40k-list-tech-a-tale-of-two-undefeated-lvo-lists.html

since your essentially trying to build a similar list

 Grizzyzz wrote:
Read this article.. it will help you.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/03/40k-list-tech-a-tale-of-two-undefeated-lvo-lists.html

since your essentially trying to build a similar list

Grizzyzz, thanks, that was a good read and I understand a lot more. Btw, the author of the 5th post in this thread, KillswitchUK, is Mr. Alex Harrison.