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http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/29/us/ohio-school-incident/index.html?sr=fbCNN030116ohio-school-incident1203AMVODtopLink&linkId=21773218

"Four students were injured and another was in custody Monday after a 14-year-old allegedly opened fire in an Ohio school cafeteria, authorities said."

What a terrible thing to do. I hope the kids shot are okay.

Let's keep bitter, discussion killing sarcasm out of at least the OP, thanks.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
What a terrible thing to do. I hope the kids shot are okay.

Yes. blessings to the families.

I don't know how to fix this and its accelerating.

 Frazzled wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
What a terrible thing to do. I hope the kids shot are okay.

Yes. blessings to the families.

I don't know how to fix this and its accelerating.

I want to know how a 14yr old got his hands on a gun. WTF. Did his parents just leave it lying around?

 Frazzled wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
What a terrible thing to do. I hope the kids shot are okay.

Yes. blessings to the families.

I don't know how to fix this and its accelerating.

I know this argument happens again and again, but the whole rest of the world knows how to fix this. But America's got to have it's guns, apparently.

Bless the families of those kids and the kids themselves.
At least it looks like no-one is going to die.

Why are guns so easily accessible? I'm not talking about purchasing guns, I imagine there are checks done that are very thorough to ensure they don't fall into the wrong hands. I'm talking about how parents basically show the gun on display for children to use. I only recently heard about a pre-teen girl shot to death because the neighbour's son got a little mad.

I might be a little biased because I'm in the UK, where hand-held fire arms are banned and rifle access is extremely limited, with checks regularly done on you to ensure you're complying with laws. Despite what people think, the UK hasn't completely outlawed guns, only limited access of them.

Crispy78 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
What a terrible thing to do. I hope the kids shot are okay.

Yes. blessings to the families.

I don't know how to fix this and its accelerating.

I know this argument happens again and again, but the whole rest of the world knows how to fix this. But America's got to have it's guns, apparently.

Yup- cause " It's unconstitutional if we don't have the right to bear arms"

 Frozocrone wrote:
Bless the families of those kids and the kids themselves.
At least it looks like no-one is going to die.

Why are guns so easily accessible? I'm not talking about purchasing guns, I imagine there are checks done that are very thorough to ensure they don't fall into the wrong hands. I'm talking about how parents basically show the gun on display for children to use. I only recently heard about a pre-teen girl shot to death because the neighbour's son got a little mad.

I might be a little biased because I'm in the UK, where hand-held fire arms are banned and rifle access is extremely limited, with checks regularly done on you to ensure you're complying with laws. Despite what people think, the UK hasn't completely outlawed guns, only limited access of them.

Culture. The legal differences are not as huge as people think, its mostly a cultural difference between the US attitude of some gun owners and the UK attitude. In the US it is viewed as a right, in the UK a privilege. I am sure most gun owners in the US are responsible, but there is a minority that just does not exist in the UK that does not have the same attitude to safety, who will keep guns in draws, rolling around in cars etc. Then unauthorized people can get access to them.

 Steve steveson wrote:


Culture. The legal differences are not as huge as people think, its mostly a cultural difference between the US attitude of some gun owners and the UK attitude. In the US it is viewed as a right, in the UK a privilege. I am sure most gun owners in the US are responsible, but there is a minority that just does not exist in the UK that does not have the same attitude to safety, who will keep guns in draws, rolling around in cars etc. Then unauthorized people can get access to them.

This is the most polite and in my opinion, correct, statement on the differences in gun ownership here and there.


Back on topic: Is there a motive given yet? Or info on where the gun came from?

This one kind of hits a little closer to home, as of this morning.

My 9 year old was playing at his friend's house yesterday.

He informed me this morning that they found his friends' uncles' rifle.

He says he didn't touch the trigger or point it at anyone...just looked through the scope. And he says there was no ammo for it.

We don't have guns in our home. Never have.

Not 100% sure how to have this conversation with him about guns.... *sigh* Joys of a gun saturated society :-P

 TheMeanDM wrote:

Not 100% sure how to have this conversation with him about guns.... *sigh* Joys of a gun saturated society :-P

Perhaps educate him that if he finds a gun, don't touch it and immediately tell an adult.

This could also be accompanied by teaching safe gun handling practices and the 4 rules of gun safety.

In this "gun saturated society", your child will then be much better prepared for inevitible contact with a firearm than the kids of parents who just tell them it's "evil and dangerous".

 Frozocrone wrote:
Why are guns so easily accessible? I'm not talking about purchasing guns, I imagine there are checks done that are very thorough to ensure they don't fall into the wrong hands. I'm talking about how parents basically show the gun on display for children to use. I only recently heard about a pre-teen girl shot to death because the neighbour's son got a little mad.

Only in some states. In others, buying a gun is like buying a knife here... and the bad people who want guns can just go to a less well regulated state, buy whatever the heck they want, then take it home without being checked at the border, because there are no real restrictions on gun ownership, only on gun purchase.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 TheMeanDM wrote:

Not 100% sure how to have this conversation with him about guns.... *sigh* Joys of a gun saturated society :-P

Perhaps educate him that if he finds a gun, don't touch it and immediately tell an adult.

This could also be accompanied by teaching safe gun handling practices and the 4 rules of gun safety.

In this "gun saturated society", your child will then be much better prepared for inevitible contact with a firearm than the kids of parents who just tell them it's "evil and dangerous".

The only guns I own are Nerf. The Boy (age 9) also has a large number of Nerf guns. I’ve talked to him about gun safety, the 4 rules, etc. I try to enforce them with his nerf guns. Don’t leave them around cocked/loaded, don’t point them at things you don’t intend to shoot, etc. And that real guns are not toys, and should not be played with. But hopefully with Nerf gun training, the seeds of gun safety will be floating around the back of his mind. So if he is exposed to the real thing, he might remember what should be done to handle it safely.

I learned how to shoot a rifle at summer camp. Not sure if that still happens anymore. If The Boy wants to learn how to shoot a real gun, I’ll probably call in my brother-in-law, who goes hunting all season, every season.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
there are no real restrictions on gun ownership

Apart from the numerous classifications of firearm under NFA regulations, restrictions on ownership due to criminal background, regulations that may apply depending on where you live, state regulation of certain types of firearm, restrictions based on age and also restrictions based on medical history. I've probably missed some others too.

 Steve steveson wrote:
Culture. The legal differences are not as huge as people think, its mostly a cultural difference between the US attitude of some gun owners and the UK attitude. In the US it is viewed as a right, in the UK a privilege. I am sure most gun owners in the US are responsible, but there is a minority that just does not exist in the UK that does not have the same attitude to safety, who will keep guns in draws, rolling around in cars etc. Then unauthorized people can get access to them.

The thing is, laws are an extension of our values and vice versa. The laws in the UK are strict, which forces people to take their responsibility very seriously. In the US the laws are very laxed by comparison, which will inevitably breed complacency. We end up with situations like the 9 year old girl who accidentally shot a range instructor in the head with an Uzi, and the US media saying things like: "the accident sparked a debate over whether such a young child should have been allowed to handle such a powerful weapon". In most countries there wouldn't be any "debate" over whether a 9 year old should be allowed to play with an Uzi, any more than there would be a debate over whether a 9 year old should be allowed to drink tequila and sleep with men... The answer is no. The girl even said herself that the gun was too much for her, and had injured her shoulder. The whole situation was frankly stupid on many levels, the first being a law that not only fails to express the gravity of how dangerous firearms can be, but instead tells citizens that firearms are a right, and that they should take them everywhere, like Walmart and school. Then when when we hear about a baby blowing her mother's head off in aisle 3 with a handbag revolver, the rest of the world face-palms, while Americans try to claim that just the mother was complacent (just her), and not that there a systemic problem with complacency across the entire country, encouraged by impotent legislation that puts out completely the wrong message.

I don't think it's an issue of lax laws as much as a lax attitude toward proper training, especially safety. Americans can be rather lazy at times, unfortunately.

But that is kind of what I mean about laws being a reflection of values. In the UK lazy people can't really own guns. If you feel that you need a gun, then it requires a certain amount of effort to acquire a maintain and licence. If you don't need a gun then it's probably not worth it. You can't just buy one because you feel like it, and then not look after it properly.

Its a sad state of affairs when your first reaction on hearing about a school shooting is relief that nobody was killed.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Its a sad state of affairs when your first reaction on hearing about a school shooting is relief that nobody was killed.

Okay, I'll bite. What, in your opinion, should our first reaction be?

 Breotan wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Its a sad state of affairs when your first reaction on hearing about a school shooting is relief that nobody was killed.

Okay, I'll bite. What, in your opinion, should our first reaction be?

What? I was talking about myself. Theres nothing to bite.

My point is that my first reaction was "Nobody was killed? Thank god!" as opposed to "Four children were seriously wounded and possibly left with permanent life changing injuries".

 Breotan wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Its a sad state of affairs when your first reaction on hearing about a school shooting is relief that nobody was killed.

Okay, I'll bite. What, in your opinion, should our first reaction be?

Shock and dismay that anyone would end up with the motive and ability to do something like that. That it has happened so many times is depressing.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Its a sad state of affairs when your first reaction on hearing about a school shooting is relief that nobody was killed.

I'm not getting this.

I mean, yeah, it is good that nobody was killed, but how is that a sad state of affairs? I think you're mixing up your analogy or metaphor or something.

I think you may be more upset that these kinds of things are so frequent, but instead it is coming out as 'it is sad to be relieved that nobody died'.

see my 2nd comment.

These things have become so common, and I've become so jaded and cynical with hearing about them so often, that my first reaction is relief that nobody was killed, rather than concern that people were seriously injured and their lives changed for the worse.

Its a sad state of affairs when you come to always expect the worst case scenario and actually feel relief when its not the worst case scenario, even though other potential scenarios are bad too.

There will always be a small percentage of people that mess up. Look at driving. Millions of people drive every day with no problems (I'm one of them). But we still have that small percentage of idiots that has to text and drive or do they're make up or drink and drive or they just don't care.

Same with guns. Millions of people handle they're guns safely every day. Teach they're kids correctly and store they're weapons properly (I'm one of them). But then we have that small percentage of idiots who don't follow gun safety. Like was mentioned laziness breeds complacency.

yellowfever wrote:
Same with guns. Millions of people handle they're guns safely every day. Teach they're kids correctly and store they're weapons properly (I'm one of them). But then we have that small percentage of idiots who don't follow gun safety. Like was mentioned laziness breeds complacency.

Well I hope you show more care and attention to your driving and gun safety than you do your grammar. The word is their, as in "their guns": the guns belonging to them. They're is short for "they are". Teach your kids about that. It only takes a few minutes to learn, and will serve them well for an entire lifetime of calling "other people" idiots.

Nobody likes a pedantic grammar nazi.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Nobody likes a pedantic grammar nazi.

Actually, pedantic grammar nazis are my favorite kind of nazi.

 Smacks wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:
Culture. The legal differences are not as huge as people think, its mostly a cultural difference between the US attitude of some gun owners and the UK attitude. In the US it is viewed as a right, in the UK a privilege. I am sure most gun owners in the US are responsible, but there is a minority that just does not exist in the UK that does not have the same attitude to safety, who will keep guns in draws, rolling around in cars etc. Then unauthorized people can get access to them.

The thing is, laws are an extension of our values and vice versa. The laws in the UK are strict, which forces people to take their responsibility very seriously. In the US the laws are very laxed by comparison, which will inevitably breed complacency. We end up with situations like the 9 year old girl who accidentally shot a range instructor in the head with an Uzi, and the US media saying things like: "the accident sparked a debate over whether such a young child should have been allowed to handle such a powerful weapon". In most countries there wouldn't be any "debate" over whether a 9 year old should be allowed to play with an Uzi, any more than there would be a debate over whether a 9 year old should be allowed to drink tequila and sleep with men... The answer is no. The girl even said herself that the gun was too much for her, and had injured her shoulder. The whole situation was frankly stupid on many levels, the first being a law that not only fails to express the gravity of how dangerous firearms can be, but instead tells citizens that firearms are a right, and that they should take them everywhere, like Walmart and school. Then when when we hear about a baby blowing her mother's head off in aisle 3 with a handbag revolver, the rest of the world face-palms, while Americans try to claim that just the mother was complacent (just her), and not that there a systemic problem with complacency across the entire country, encouraged by impotent legislation that puts out completely the wrong message.

On the flip-side,it can be argued that the strict gun and self-defense laws in the U.K. are a sign that the British pawn off all responsibility of personal safety from criminals to government. Which is both a sign of complacency and laziness.







Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Bless the families of those kids and the kids themselves.
At least it looks like no-one is going to die.

Why are guns so easily accessible? I'm not talking about purchasing guns, I imagine there are checks done that are very thorough to ensure they don't fall into the wrong hands. I'm talking about how parents basically show the gun on display for children to use. I only recently heard about a pre-teen girl shot to death because the neighbour's son got a little mad.

I might be a little biased because I'm in the UK, where hand-held fire arms are banned and rifle access is extremely limited, with checks regularly done on you to ensure you're complying with laws. Despite what people think, the UK hasn't completely outlawed guns, only limited access of them.

All, if not most, of the 50 States have safe storage laws on the books, violation of which can land you in the pokey.


But like all of our 20,000 Federal, States, County/Parish, and Local gun laws/regulations, you will have those that ignore safe storage laws.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
On the flip-side,it can be argued that the strict gun and self-defense laws in the U.K. are a sign that the British pawn off all responsibility of personal safety from criminals to government. Which is both a sign of complacency and laziness.

It could be argued, sure, but it would sound like a flying rodent gak insane.