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 Xenomancers wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
A fluffy yet still crunchy Crowe list is an NDF with 4 full squads of Purifiers with Rhinos, a 5man squad of Strikers, 2 fast Rhinos, and Crowe. Combat squad the Purifiers and place two of the extra squads in the fast Rhinos, and place Crowe with the Strikes in their Rhino. Gives you 11+1d6 Warp Charges every turn, and 7 Cleansing Flame Rhinos (with Incinerators). Outside of the tin cans, you still have 9 of the best assault units in the GK codex.

SJ

That sounds like a lot of fun actually. What do you use for AT?

Hammers.

SJ

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except...any of the HQ's are likely to have Hammerhand anyway. Plus if I'm trying to cast that, I probably won't be able to be as successful with Cleansing Flame.

Stick with any other HQ and leave the Cleansing Flame to Purifiers.

As an allied character, he's a cheaper and more effecient way of getting cleansing flame into a unit than taking purifiers. Taking Purifiers requires the Troops/HQ tax and a delivery method tax. Meanwhile, if you were putting Crowe in a Sternguard Drop Pod unit then he has almost no tax and gives your Melta Sternguard an added offensive boost AND a melee deterrent. So if your main goal of allying GK is to get Dreadknights and Draigo Centstar then taking Crowe as an HQ to boost one of your other squads is a decent idea.

Love the Idea, also an way to make Paladins/ inceptors fluffy good list ?

Im thinking about starting a Grey Knight army but I want to avoid using DKs for personal reasons.

Is it possible to build a list that focuses on the more classic GK units that is still possible to win with?

In my opinion Paladins are way too expensive to ever be viable. the only thing I could think to do with them would be to maybe...maybe take 4 units of 3 with a maybe hammer in a NSF and use them like loyalist mutilaors. That way you will have a bunch of units that can babysit objectives and threaten squshy units that will be hard to shift. Even then it is a waste of points.

Interceptor are a good choice if you are planning on running a pure GK list in maelstrom and are leaving Draigo at home. Without Draigo you have no guarantee of getting gate so you'll need units that have enough mobility to grab objectives. their 30" shunt is a good way to surprise an opponent who thought they were outside of your threat range. I've been toying with a list of 2 full squads of interceptors combat squadded where one half gets 2 incinerators and the other half gets 2 hammers and a meltabomb on the justicar. I haven't had a chance to full shake it out on the table but 4 units of interceptors + 2 dredknights seems like it will give me a lot of mobility.

I was thinking about what allies could support Grey Knights and came up with the idea of using the NSF alongside an Elysian force for a sort of alpha strike. With the Elysians you get "combat drop", which is like drop pod assault but with flyers, plus veterans with tracking beacons for safer deep striking. How good would this sort of list be?

Eh, tracking beacons and teleport homers only work if they were on the table at the start of the turn. So its a bit pointless as with NSF you are banking on everyone coming T1.

If they just changed the wording of homers to work right away you would see much more tactical uses. DS the initial squad who has a homer, then DS the rest of the army within the range of the homer for no scatter.

GW just sucks at realizing cool little changes that would make their game better.

Zimko wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except...any of the HQ's are likely to have Hammerhand anyway. Plus if I'm trying to cast that, I probably won't be able to be as successful with Cleansing Flame.

Stick with any other HQ and leave the Cleansing Flame to Purifiers.

As an allied character, he's a cheaper and more effecient way of getting cleansing flame into a unit than taking purifiers. Taking Purifiers requires the Troops/HQ tax and a delivery method tax. Meanwhile, if you were putting Crowe in a Sternguard Drop Pod unit then he has almost no tax and gives your Melta Sternguard an added offensive boost AND a melee deterrent. So if your main goal of allying GK is to get Dreadknights and Draigo Centstar then taking Crowe as an HQ to boost one of your other squads is a decent idea.

As an allied character, he's still crap.

You're taking allied Grey Knights for whatever reason, and Crowe is going to give you nothing. You're already probably going to use the Elite slots on Purifiers anyway, and your HQ either needs to excel at support or offense. Crowe is definitely doing neither.

Also, nobody is going to be afraid of charging Sternguard with Hammerhead. That's one of the lamest defenses for a character I've seen here, and I've seen someone defend Fabulous Bile.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Zimko wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except...any of the HQ's are likely to have Hammerhand anyway. Plus if I'm trying to cast that, I probably won't be able to be as successful with Cleansing Flame.

Stick with any other HQ and leave the Cleansing Flame to Purifiers.

As an allied character, he's a cheaper and more effecient way of getting cleansing flame into a unit than taking purifiers. Taking Purifiers requires the Troops/HQ tax and a delivery method tax. Meanwhile, if you were putting Crowe in a Sternguard Drop Pod unit then he has almost no tax and gives your Melta Sternguard an added offensive boost AND a melee deterrent. So if your main goal of allying GK is to get Dreadknights and Draigo Centstar then taking Crowe as an HQ to boost one of your other squads is a decent idea.

As an allied character, he's still crap.

You're taking allied Grey Knights for whatever reason, and Crowe is going to give you nothing. You're already probably going to use the Elite slots on Purifiers anyway, and your HQ either needs to excel at support or offense. Crowe is definitely doing neither.

Also, nobody is going to be afraid of charging Sternguard with Hammerhead. That's one of the lamest defenses for a character I've seen here, and I've seen someone defend Fabulous Bile.

Crowe is cheap for an HQ that can duel HQ's that cost 70+ points more than him AND also probably aren't psykers with awesome powers. He's really not as bad as you say he is. Offensively he is more reliable than a GKL that can roll 0 offensive skills. GKL can't challange gak in CC - it's not uncommon I deny challenge with him so I can gates out of CC. Crowe can literally challange any character - even an avatar - with a reasonable chance at victory.

But why would they accept the challenge? Any bodyguard unit worth a damn will be able to roll the Purifiers over.

text removed.

Reds8n

It might be a little out there but I run grey knight air calvary and it's a ton of fun. Looks like this.

Lv3 librarian
5 man terminator with incinerator
Dreadnought with power fist and tl autocannon
All in a storm raven
Xiphon (my group allows fw)

I call that 1 flight wing.

So I run 2 wings (identical sets of above) and a bunker with void shied and coms relay manned by a tech marine.

Basically xiphons deep strike first turn on rerolls (thanks bunker dude) and sweep targets
Next turn stormravens come on and shoot. Xiphons fly off.
Third turn xiphons return and ravens drop to hover. Everything assaults.

Maybe not top tier but it's my take on Vietnam style air calvary and it seems to do ok.

 Tainted wrote:
I was thinking about what allies could support Grey Knights and came up with the idea of using the NSF alongside an Elysian force for a sort of alpha strike. With the Elysians you get "combat drop", which is like drop pod assault but with flyers, plus veterans with tracking beacons for safer deep striking. How good would this sort of list be?

There is a variant of what you are talking about using the flesh tearers formation and purifiers...drop pod combat-squaded purifiers for up to 6 cleansing flames turn 1.

I live the idea of the stormraven wing, what would you do if the xiphon was not allowed?
Why not try ndk deepstrick or shunt? Since they are just so Much better than dreadnaughts

Thinking of starting a little allied detachment to run with an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor for fun, consisting of probably a ML3 Librarian and a Terminator Squad with 4 dual Falchions, a Hammer and an Incinerator. The Inquisitor would have Terminator Armour, a Hammer and Servo Skulls.

Is 2 Hammers, one of them being on an Inquisitor (so WS4, S3, A3), enough?

Is it worth rolling the Librarian on Sanctic? Or are you better off with Divination or Telepathy?

Are any of the Relics worth taking? The Cuirass seems nice, but Librarians are only 2 Wounds which is a little less nice. Similarly the Soul Glaive seems pretty sweet, but is it worth 20pts for an AP3 weapon on a model with only 2 attacks?

 GoonBandito wrote:
Thinking of starting a little allied detachment to run with an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor for fun, consisting of probably a ML3 Librarian and a Terminator Squad with 4 dual Falchions, a Hammer and an Incinerator. The Inquisitor would have Terminator Armour, a Hammer and Servo Skulls.

Is 2 Hammers, one of them being on an Inquisitor (so WS4, S3, A3), enough?

Is it worth rolling the Librarian on Sanctic? Or are you better off with Divination or Telepathy?

Are any of the Relics worth taking? The Cuirass seems nice, but Librarians are only 2 Wounds which is a little less nice. Similarly the Soul Glaive seems pretty sweet, but is it worth 20pts for an AP3 weapon on a model with only 2 attacks?

Only relic that is worth it is the libre demonica. All the rest are crap.

I actually think the Bone Shard is alright tournament-wise as Daemons are actually an expected foe at some point. Otherwise I think it's only 10 points. You'll overall be okay.

Also, plenty of the SM relics are decent at least. The only one that's arguably junk is the Armor, and it doesn't even give Relentless anymore!

 Renesco P. Blue wrote:

Only relic that is worth it is the libre demonica. All the rest are crap.

Zimko wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Or they just deny the challenge and they gladly take your S4-6 AP- attacks in melee. He doesn't even have Force for crying out loud.

Plus that's why Sergeants exist: to be challenge catchers. That lets the Librarian attack safely. As well, to say he can challenge things above his points isn't entirely true. He's 175 frickin points. Anything more expensive than him will either be a force multiplier and out of harm's way in the first place, or WILL murder him regardless. A TWC HQ is going to simply destroy him (and honestly isn't much more expensive). A D-Thirster will decimate him. A Destroyer Lord is likely to be unharmed by him (you're either choosing to be successful at casting Hammerhand or Cleansing Flame, as you're not bringing enough Warp Charges to do both because you're picking Crowe instead of anyone else). Smashfucker will ID him.

Crowe is garbage, just accept it.

If they deny the challenge then their character doesn't get to attack. Either way, Crowe's purpose is to keep a character from decimating your guys... that is what I meant by melee defense. I've used him to turtle up and keep a unit locked in combat for days simply because I chose to reroll saves instead of attacking against a character. He's a decent tarpit by himself.

Competitively I'd still take a Librarian any day, but the point is that Crowe CAN work and isn't completely worthless. You can make him work if you try and really want to play Crowe for reasons other than being competitive.

Ah yes, so either you have characters that won't accept anyway because they're not great at challenges (Nemesor) or you end up in a challenge with a TWC HQ or Destroyer Lord and promptly not do anything.

Yes he is worthless in this instance too. He's a great model with gak rules, and he should be used as ANYTHING else.

Hey, whoa wait one second.

The Armor is FANTASTIC on Librarians. FnP to stop him taking wounds from perils and IWND to regen wounds he does take? I'd say it's just as valuable as the DLD!

I guess you are right But better as demonica?!

Think i would still prefer demonica on a lib. On a grand master or brother cap. Could be good to?!

This is a great thread with lots of good info.

One issue I seem to consistently have when running GKs are biker Armies, be them Raven Guard, Ork, Eldar, I can't seem to find a right combo of units and tactics to handle them.

Raven Guard with a bike libby / grav and melta seem to chew through me early on, where as the Orks just turn 1 rush and turn 2 assault me into oblivion. I've tried using SW Drop Pods to counter rush, I've tried purifiers in metal boxes, I've tried Assassins targeting the heavy weapons, I've tried melee asaulting with NDKs or Termies with Hammerhand and Force and nothing seems to do the trick. Any ideas?

Did you also had bad roles? We still have flamers, interceptor should be able to help you I would think?

Other questions my gates seems to scatter A lot and costing me games. I am thinking about teleporthomer on interceptor, did anyone have experience with it?

Draigo shines. S7 base, EW, 3++, with force means he wins at challenges. Just yesterday, for example, he killed an Avatar in the first round, after surviving the Avatar's attacks. Pair him with a Librarian who has Sanctuary and he gets even better.
I currently have him tanking shots in front of a Kataphron Destroyer unit. If I feel like it I'll LOS! a wound onto the mechanicus, who then get healed by the Tech Priest.

Other than him, I don't use current GK named characters.

No answers the questions above?

What psychic do you role for on your libby?

arthorn wrote:
No answers the questions above?

What psychic do you role for on your libby?

I always go Sanctic Daemonology, because I'm taking the Domina Liber Daemonica artefact and don't want to miss out on Primaris of any other discipline.

Rolling for powers? depends on what role he's going to fill and what I am up against.
Pure grey knights against daemons: sanctic
allied force led by GK libby: prob either divination or telepathy
GK librarian, but I've added an allied inquisator: libby rolls sanctic, inq rolls pyromancy.
If you roll well with that combo, you deepstrike in, hit everything around you with cleansing flame, and then hit everything again with sunburst

Sanctic is the best for mono GK IMO. Sanctuary is a real nice boost to your terms. Potentially gives them mobility and defense - plus 2 good offensive powers - only 2 duds to roll and when rolling 4 powers with relic - it's hard to do badly. Rolling on other powers is meh - telepathy is a decent gable .

 Xenomancers wrote:
Sanctic is the best for mono GK IMO. Sanctuary is a real nice boost to your terms. Potentially gives them mobility and defense - plus 2 good offensive powers - only 2 duds to roll and when rolling 4 powers with relic - it's hard to do badly. Rolling on other powers is meh - telepathy is a decent gable .

Unless fighting Demons, I'd say Telepathy is better. The main two reasons being Shrouded and Invisibility, two very good defensive spells that GK need to keep their elite units alive longer. It's super easy to get "obscured" all over the board for a 5+ cover, bumped up thanks to shrouding. Or, to not get hit in the first place with Invisibility. On top of rolling Telepathy, you get an extra offensive power in Psychic Shriek for free (although it's very hit-or-miss).