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Kill all xenos life they can

The entire novel, Kill Team (Gav Thorpe), revolves around an Imperial Guard desperado squad acting as bodyguards for an Imperial Diplomatic Envoy to the Tau.

 Deadshot wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I still think the order to attack would get lost in the Warp. That's how stupid the Imperium is.

How exactly is the way they communicate stupid. Of all the things they do that are dumb Astropaths seem low down the list.

Because everything about GW's IoM is some of the stupidest fiction I have ever read. It's down there with Terry Goodkind and his S+M fantasies.

Then leave, go find a setting you actually like. If you don't like it and are just going to spout negativity there's no point in even being here.

Perhaps he likes another faction within the 40k universe? He only said that he finds the IoM stuff to be poorly written, nothing beyond that.

 King Pariah wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I still think the order to attack would get lost in the Warp. That's how stupid the Imperium is.

How exactly is the way they communicate stupid. Of all the things they do that are dumb Astropaths seem low down the list.

Because everything about GW's IoM is some of the stupidest fiction I have ever read. It's down there with Terry Goodkind and his S+M fantasies.

Then leave, go find a setting you actually like. If you don't like it and are just going to spout negativity there's no point in even being here.

Perhaps he likes another faction within the 40k universe? He only said that he finds the IoM stuff to be poorly written, nothing beyond that.

The Imperium of Man is not a faction, its a setting. The galaxy and Imperium are one and the same

Well, the "setting" will end being eaten by Tyranids.

I don't know if someone already mentioned it, but techincally what your asking falls under the responsibility of rogue traders. They are mechants, diplomats, explorers, star charters, and are basically only a few steps below inquisitor in power and freedom (since to be a rogue trader, you (or your family) need permission form the emperor, I don't know if high lords are able to give out the permissions)

 Deadshot wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I still think the order to attack would get lost in the Warp. That's how stupid the Imperium is.

How exactly is the way they communicate stupid. Of all the things they do that are dumb Astropaths seem low down the list.

Because everything about GW's IoM is some of the stupidest fiction I have ever read. It's down there with Terry Goodkind and his S+M fantasies.

Then leave, go find a setting you actually like. If you don't like it and are just going to spout negativity there's no point in even being here.

Perhaps he likes another faction within the 40k universe? He only said that he finds the IoM stuff to be poorly written, nothing beyond that.

The Imperium of Man is not a faction, its a setting. The galaxy and Imperium are one and the same

If that's really what you think...

(Source)

There's diplomats in the FFG RPGS.

Yeah, the Imperium has diplomats.

But their ultimate purpose isn't what we think about diplomats being. Modern days, diplomats are there to ensure that relations between factions remain smooth and to facilitate communication.

Imperial Diplomat's main purpose will be to gauge threats and placate them till an appropriate response can be mustered.


Example:

A new alien race is encountered and appear to be hostile, but negotiations may be possible. A diplomat is sent to engage in negotiations whose main purpose is to stall the aliens long enough for an Imperial force to be assembled to retake any lost territory and exterminate the Xenos.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yeah, the Imperium has diplomats.

But their ultimate purpose isn't what we think about diplomats being. Modern days, diplomats are there to ensure that relations between factions remain smooth and to facilitate communication.

Imperial Diplomat's main purpose will be to gauge threats and placate them till an appropriate response can be mustered.


Example:

A new alien race is encountered and appear to be hostile, but negotiations may be possible. A diplomat is sent to engage in negotiations whose main purpose is to stall the aliens long enough for an Imperial force to be assembled to retake any lost territory and exterminate the Xenos.

That and mark those as non threats as such and just to keep a a eye on them, watch for chaos etc. Some they can let live, as there not worth redirecting the resources needed to kill them. Maybe have a fortified diplo!atic compound, as a place to watch, ensure chaos or hostile xeno influence is located and destroyed if happens.

It's worth noting that during the Great Crusade, Imperial Compliance didn't have to be achieved by martial means. As long as a lost human world became Compliant, it didn't matter how it got there and plenty of them accepted the Imperial Truth peacefully.

Horus Rising shows Horus determined to find a diplomatic Compliance to the Interex, a lost civilisation of humans who were even openly integrating with Xenos races (a big no-no during the Great Crusade). Still, Horus persisted with negotiations would have likely succeeded had it not been for Erebus' machinations of a much larger scheme causing negotiations to violently fail.

So if humans kill all Xenos or have a inherent desire or plan to kill all Xenos whether they get to it or not...

Doesn't that make them genuinely evil? Genocidal evil? Basically anyone, ANYONE even a society of fluffy farmer society Xenos is not human they should be exterminated if and when possible.

Basically the crime of anyone who is not like us is existence. You essentially saying their existence is a crime and humans alone get to dictate that.

That makes humans worse than the Eldar, Tau, or even the Orks as they have systematic genocidal intent like the Nazi's. It doesn't matter if the Imperium actually gets to do it or NOT - if they could they would exterminate all Xenos in the galaxy to have a pure and beautiful human only galaxy.

What a perfect humanist vision.

DorianGray wrote:
So if humans kill all Xenos or have a inherent desire or plan to kill all Xenos whether they get to it or not...

Doesn't that make them genuinely evil? Genocidal evil? Basically anyone, ANYONE even a society of fluffy farmer society Xenos is not human they should be exterminated if and when possible.

Basically the crime of anyone who is not like us is existence. You essentially saying their existence is a crime and humans alone get to dictate that.

That makes humans worse than the Eldar, Tau, or even the Orks as they have systematic genocidal intent like the Nazi's. It doesn't matter if the Imperium actually gets to do it or NOT - if they could they would exterminate all Xenos in the galaxy to have a pure and beautiful human only galaxy.

What a perfect humanist vision.

Its not genocide if they aren't people. Xenos are animal scum. Its not genocide, its extermination of an infestation.

DorianGray wrote:
So if humans kill all Xenos or have a inherent desire or plan to kill all Xenos whether they get to it or not...

Doesn't that make them genuinely evil? Genocidal evil? Basically anyone, ANYONE even a society of fluffy farmer society Xenos is not human they should be exterminated if and when possible.

Basically the crime of anyone who is not like us is existence. You essentially saying their existence is a crime and humans alone get to dictate that.

This is not some guy waking up one day and deciding that he doesn't like that guy with pointy ears. This is learned, ingrained behaviour over 40,000 years of stellar experience. This is knowing that no matter how ell intentioned aliens may appear, they are vipers.

DorianGray wrote:
That makes humans worse than the Eldar, Tau, or even the Orks as they have systematic genocidal intent like the Nazi's. It doesn't matter if the Imperium actually gets to do it or NOT - if they could they would exterminate all Xenos in the galaxy to have a pure and beautiful human only galaxy.

What a perfect humanist vision.

It's the only vision that makes sense for us as a species. We are even now in M3, wiping out viruses that threaten us. We are engineering mosquitoes that can reproduce but the males are sterile, in order to destroy them over time.
We cannot coexist with Tyranids, but we equally cannot coexist with Orks. Wherever they outnumber us they subjugate us. There has been peace in the past but it was opportunistic.

The Eldar begrudge our success while considering us animals. They will use us to their own ends and slaughter us if they can. If left alone they might somehow shore up their numbers and ascend to control the galaxy again. We have the upper hand now and cannot afford to stand by until we don't. The real Eldar, mind you are the Commoragh cults and clans. That's where Eldar society goes, naturally. Their end game is degeneracy and predation.

The expansionist Tau sterilise human populations subtly until tau are the dominant race. Their devices are an affront to the machine god. Their influence weakens faith in the God Emperor, which is an actual asset that we need to hold back the daemons.

Kroot are fine. They haven't demonstrated a desire to own the stars or kill all humans (YET.) They've thrown their lot in with the Tau, so until they repent they are still on the 'to do' list.

Vespid are weird though. They are from precisely 1 planet, and we could leave them there if the Tau would stop giving them neutron blasters and brainwashing them into doing suicide drops on Astartes.

I can't think of a single xenos race we'd be better off letting live, long term.

 GoonBandito wrote:
It's worth noting that during the Great Crusade, Imperial Compliance didn't have to be achieved by martial means. As long as a lost human world became Compliant, it didn't matter how it got there and plenty of them accepted the Imperial Truth peacefully.

Horus Rising shows Horus determined to find a diplomatic Compliance to the Interex, a lost civilisation of humans who were even openly integrating with Xenos races (a big no-no during the Great Crusade). Still, Horus persisted with negotiations would have likely succeeded had it not been for Erebus' machinations of a much larger scheme causing negotiations to violently fail.

Indeed. Of course the Imperium would have slowly exterminated those aliens given time. They'd get shipped off to extermination camps or used as cannon fodder on the front lines till they were exterminated, while at the same time educating the Interex on the evils of aliens.

 =Angel= wrote:

And now I'm afraid of stockings. Thanks, Angel. You ruined Christmas.

IoM extermination of aliens is genocide. It is also the result of thousands of years of experience in a gakky galaxy.

But that doesn't makes it any less wrong nor evil.

But who cares about morality in 40k? its only fiction.

 Tyran wrote:
IoM extermination of aliens is genocide. It is also the result of thousands of years of experience in a gakky galaxy.

But that doesn't makes it any less wrong nor evil.

But who cares about morality in 40k? its only fiction.

The only evil in the 40k universe is extinction. The only good is survival.

 Tyran wrote:
IoM extermination of aliens is genocide. It is also the result of thousands of years of experience in a gakky galaxy.

But that doesn't makes it any less wrong nor evil.

But who cares about morality in 40k? its only fiction.

Is it genocide if you wipe out a colony of rats living in your basement? No. Genocide refers to wiping out people. Eldar are not people, Tau are not people, Kroot, Necrons, Nids, Orks and Hrud and all the other Xenos of the galaxy are not people. It's not genocide, its a cure for a plague on the galaxy.

Nice way of using semantics to completely miss the point.

 Tyran wrote:
Nice way of using semantics to completely miss the point.

and how did I miss the point exactly?

 Deadshot wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
IoM extermination of aliens is genocide. It is also the result of thousands of years of experience in a gakky galaxy.

But that doesn't makes it any less wrong nor evil.

But who cares about morality in 40k? its only fiction.

Is it genocide if you wipe out a colony of rats living in your basement? No. Genocide refers to wiping out people. Eldar are not people, Tau are not people, Kroot, Necrons, Nids, Orks and Hrud and all the other Xenos of the galaxy are not people. It's not genocide, its a cure for a plague on the galaxy.

Oj, now are on the slippery slope of moral semantics. The Nazis did not consider the Jews to be people, so does that mean the Holocaust was not a genocide? What is "People"? And what exactly is it that makes some groups of creatures "people" and others not?

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
IoM extermination of aliens is genocide. It is also the result of thousands of years of experience in a gakky galaxy.

But that doesn't makes it any less wrong nor evil.

But who cares about morality in 40k? its only fiction.

Is it genocide if you wipe out a colony of rats living in your basement? No. Genocide refers to wiping out people. Eldar are not people, Tau are not people, Kroot, Necrons, Nids, Orks and Hrud and all the other Xenos of the galaxy are not people. It's not genocide, its a cure for a plague on the galaxy.

Oj, now are on the slippery slope of moral semantics. The Nazis did not consider the Jews to be people, so does that mean the Holocaust was not a genocide? What is "People"? And what exactly is it that makes some groups of creatures "people" and others not?

The Nazis were mistaken. They considered Jews lesser beings, but they are still human. Same species, same genetic makeup. Eldar are not even close to humans. Tau are barely mammals. Tyranids and Vespid are insects. Orks are barely even animals, actually closer to fungus. Kroot are birdthings. Necrons aren't even alive anymore. Xenos are not human, therefore they are not people. If you want to argue this other, non-human species are people, then the same can be said of animals and viruses, in which case, farming is genocide, hunting is murder. Which of course animals rights activists will jump on I bet.

Point is; If you are human, you are a person. Humans are people, everything else is not.

I feel sapience is the defining feature of a person, personally.

Yes, the Imperium is a big sack of gak. That's the entire point of the setting. It's a huge, heartless waste of potential and a reversal of the common utopic vision of humanity surviving among the stars in harmony with itself and other forms of life. 40K's humanity doesn't, as a group, seek lives of understanding and compassion. That's why it is doomed. I haven't been keeping up with what they've been changing in the new Heresy series but for years a big part of the whole tragedy of it was that the Emperor never truly confided in his sons, which drove them away from him and made them susceptible to lies, hatred and ambition. Chaos preys upon the desperate and those who lack love. The Imperium clinging to ignorance and hatred as shields against their very emotions will one day be the end of it.

 Deadshot wrote:

The Nazis were mistaken. They considered Jews lesser beings, but they are still human. Same species, same genetic makeup. Eldar are not even close to humans. Tau are barely mammals. Tyranids and Vespid are insects. Orks are barely even animals, actually closer to fungus. Kroot are birdthings. Necrons aren't even alive anymore. Xenos are not human, therefore they are not people. If you want to argue this other, non-human species are people, then the same can be said of animals and viruses, in which case, farming is genocide, hunting is murder. Which of course animals rights activists will jump on I bet.

Point is; If you are human, you are a person. Humans are people, everything else is not.

I believe that you have missed decades of sci-fi about whether an AI can be a person.

 Robin5t wrote:

DorianGray wrote:
So you have records of Craftworlds fighting with humans against Chaos and yet the Imperium still has a kill on sight policy towards them?

What madness is this crap?

The problem is that not many in the Imperium can tell the difference between the Craftworld Eldar, and the Dark Eldar or Corsairs who loot their ships and burn their planets.

Plenty of "Regular" Eldar act as pirates, too, which I'm sure further muddies the waters.

Rosebuddy wrote:
Yes, the Imperium is a big sack of gak. That's the entire point of the setting. It's a huge, heartless waste of potential and a reversal of the common utopic vision of humanity surviving among the stars in harmony with itself and other forms of life. 40K's humanity doesn't, as a group, seek lives of understanding and compassion. That's why it is doomed. I haven't been keeping up with what they've been changing in the new Heresy series but for years a big part of the whole tragedy of it was that the Emperor never truly confided in his sons, which drove them away from him and made them susceptible to lies, hatred and ambition. Chaos preys upon the desperate and those who lack love. The Imperium clinging to ignorance and hatred as shields against their very emotions will one day be the end of it.

 Deadshot wrote:

The Nazis were mistaken. They considered Jews lesser beings, but they are still human. Same species, same genetic makeup. Eldar are not even close to humans. Tau are barely mammals. Tyranids and Vespid are insects. Orks are barely even animals, actually closer to fungus. Kroot are birdthings. Necrons aren't even alive anymore. Xenos are not human, therefore they are not people. If you want to argue this other, non-human species are people, then the same can be said of animals and viruses, in which case, farming is genocide, hunting is murder. Which of course animals rights activists will jump on I bet.

Point is; If you are human, you are a person. Humans are people, everything else is not.

I believe that you have missed decades of sci-fi about whether an AI can be a person.

Sci-fi, fiction. Meaning its as mutable as the writers and the idea of an artificial intelligence being prejudiced against for being different resonates with people. But at the end of the day, AI are still machines, Xenos are still aliens and a mass removal/killing of either (I say removal because AI are not even alive) is not genocide.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
Nice way of using semantics to completely miss the point.

and how did I miss the point exactly?

That it is evil.

 Deadshot wrote:

Rosebuddy wrote:
Yes, the Imperium is a big sack of gak. That's the entire point of the setting. It's a huge, heartless waste of potential and a reversal of the common utopic vision of humanity surviving among the stars in harmony with itself and other forms of life. 40K's humanity doesn't, as a group, seek lives of understanding and compassion. That's why it is doomed. I haven't been keeping up with what they've been changing in the new Heresy series but for years a big part of the whole tragedy of it was that the Emperor never truly confided in his sons, which drove them away from him and made them susceptible to lies, hatred and ambition. Chaos preys upon the desperate and those who lack love. The Imperium clinging to ignorance and hatred as shields against their very emotions will one day be the end of it.

 Deadshot wrote:

The Nazis were mistaken. They considered Jews lesser beings, but they are still human. Same species, same genetic makeup. Eldar are not even close to humans. Tau are barely mammals. Tyranids and Vespid are insects. Orks are barely even animals, actually closer to fungus. Kroot are birdthings. Necrons aren't even alive anymore. Xenos are not human, therefore they are not people. If you want to argue this other, non-human species are people, then the same can be said of animals and viruses, in which case, farming is genocide, hunting is murder. Which of course animals rights activists will jump on I bet.

Point is; If you are human, you are a person. Humans are people, everything else is not.

I believe that you have missed decades of sci-fi about whether an AI can be a person.

Sci-fi, fiction. Meaning its as mutable as the writers and the idea of an artificial intelligence being prejudiced against for being different resonates with people. But at the end of the day, AI are still machines, Xenos are still aliens and a mass removal/killing of either (I say removal because AI are not even alive) is not genocide.

What is it, then?

What would you call it?

 Robin5t wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Rosebuddy wrote:
Yes, the Imperium is a big sack of gak. That's the entire point of the setting. It's a huge, heartless waste of potential and a reversal of the common utopic vision of humanity surviving among the stars in harmony with itself and other forms of life. 40K's humanity doesn't, as a group, seek lives of understanding and compassion. That's why it is doomed. I haven't been keeping up with what they've been changing in the new Heresy series but for years a big part of the whole tragedy of it was that the Emperor never truly confided in his sons, which drove them away from him and made them susceptible to lies, hatred and ambition. Chaos preys upon the desperate and those who lack love. The Imperium clinging to ignorance and hatred as shields against their very emotions will one day be the end of it.

 Deadshot wrote:

The Nazis were mistaken. They considered Jews lesser beings, but they are still human. Same species, same genetic makeup. Eldar are not even close to humans. Tau are barely mammals. Tyranids and Vespid are insects. Orks are barely even animals, actually closer to fungus. Kroot are birdthings. Necrons aren't even alive anymore. Xenos are not human, therefore they are not people. If you want to argue this other, non-human species are people, then the same can be said of animals and viruses, in which case, farming is genocide, hunting is murder. Which of course animals rights activists will jump on I bet.

Point is; If you are human, you are a person. Humans are people, everything else is not.

I believe that you have missed decades of sci-fi about whether an AI can be a person.

Sci-fi, fiction. Meaning its as mutable as the writers and the idea of an artificial intelligence being prejudiced against for being different resonates with people. But at the end of the day, AI are still machines, Xenos are still aliens and a mass removal/killing of either (I say removal because AI are not even alive) is not genocide.

What is it, then?

What would you call it?

Curing. Culling. Removing parasites. War. Take your pick.