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pm713 wrote:
Which is the same as the Imperium. The difference being as an Eldar you can become a Seer, join a different Craftworld or become a Ranger. Whereas with the Imperium it's generally take it or get executed.

Yeah, even there, the Imperium is worse. It's not "disagree and get exiled." It's "disagree and get shot in the head/burned at the stake." In the Imperium, the only way you can receive anything resembling forgiveness for heretical beliefs is if you join a penal legion or become an Inquisitor's psychic cannon fodder for the rest of your life. And this includes holding heretical beliefs that have nothing to do with Chaos.

With a Craftworld Eldar, it's more, "Oh, you're done with that youthful rebellion nonsense? It's about time. Now pick your new path from our catalog." They'll even take in Dark Eldar who have reformed, although it takes much longer to earn their trust, for good reason.

Of course, to a human none of this is relevant, because Eldar are racist as and won't tolerate your presence unless they can use you for some scheme.

Remember if hivers ever get tired of their repetitive existence they can go downhive into the lawless badzones and start a nice little sludge farm. Maybe build a rust-cabin on a slime flat, and carve out a little bit of freedom - alternatively you can join a gang and earn food and creds by taking it from others or searching for lost archeotech. Just watch out for the plague zombies in the night or Redemptionist crusades.

In seriousness though, this sort of lore shows that one can "live off the radar" in the Imperium, like one could in the Wild West. Who cares if you don't get to vote on who the planetary governor is? You could start a small self sustaining farm that gives you everything you need - working for no one but yourself.

Iracundus wrote:
Lot of people saying things without evidence backing up their statements. Eldar can change paths without spending a very long time on them (though it still isn't switching from one day to the next) as shown by the following description of the Path system way of life:

But like all journeys, the Path is different for each of us. Some wander for a long while in one place; some spread their travels wide and visit many places for a short time while others remain for a long time to explore every nook and turn; some of us lose our way and leave the Path for a time or forever; and some of us find dead ends and become trapped.

-BL novel, Path of the Outcast preface (but also repeated in each of the preceding Eldar Path novels)

One common misconception is that Craftworld life is monk-like. The Path books show the existence of a Path called the Path of the Dreamer, which is literally spending all day sitting around daydreaming (with or without the aid of psychotropic drugs). All their physical needs are looked after while they daydream. It is only monk-like in comparison to the Dark Eldar and Corsair lifestyle in that Eldar have to make a choice and stick with it for a reasonable length of time instead of changing around as their whims dictate.

By the standards of many outside of the Craftworlds, it is a monk-like focus on their chosen Path. It is often described in some sources as bordering on what Humans might call obsessive, or in the case of some Paths, schizophrenia. And those are only the closest terms that Humans have to describe the dedication and focus the Eldar dedicate toward their Paths.


And that quote from the novels doesn't really invalidate what I posted earlier. It just describes the entire Path system in more poetic terms, covering the broad spectrum of said system, the ups, and the downs, of it.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Lot of people saying things without evidence backing up their statements. Eldar can change paths without spending a very long time on them (though it still isn't switching from one day to the next) as shown by the following description of the Path system way of life:

But like all journeys, the Path is different for each of us. Some wander for a long while in one place; some spread their travels wide and visit many places for a short time while others remain for a long time to explore every nook and turn; some of us lose our way and leave the Path for a time or forever; and some of us find dead ends and become trapped.

-BL novel, Path of the Outcast preface (but also repeated in each of the preceding Eldar Path novels)

One common misconception is that Craftworld life is monk-like. The Path books show the existence of a Path called the Path of the Dreamer, which is literally spending all day sitting around daydreaming (with or without the aid of psychotropic drugs). All their physical needs are looked after while they daydream. It is only monk-like in comparison to the Dark Eldar and Corsair lifestyle in that Eldar have to make a choice and stick with it for a reasonable length of time instead of changing around as their whims dictate.

By the standards of many outside of the Craftworlds, it is a monk-like focus on their chosen Path. It is often described in some sources as bordering on what Humans might call obsessive, or in the case of some Paths, schizophrenia. And those are only the closest terms that Humans have to describe the dedication and focus the Eldar dedicate toward their Paths.


And that quote from the novels doesn't really invalidate what I posted earlier. It just describes the entire Path system in more poetic terms, covering the broad spectrum of said system, the ups, and the downs, of it.

Also, according to the 5th Ed Dark Eldar Codex, Eldar experience sensation a hundred times more keenly than humans do and process information a hundred times faster (I'm paraphrasing from memory here, I don't have the codex on hand at the moment). In comparison to plain ol' humans, all Eldar are sense freaks. That's why they created the god Slaanesh, who is so sensation focused (this is actually a different way to look at the Chaos gods: Khorne is emotion focused, Tzeentch is goal focused, Nurgle is survival focused, and Slaanesh is physical sensation focused).

So the path system may seem like no big deal to humans, but to Eldar it can feel very stifling indeed. You're experiencing the same sensations over and over again, and you can't mix in new sensations whenever you feel like it.

And yes, there IS a set time for paths. Read the old Craftworld Eldar supplement's section on Ulthwe. Ulthwe has a lot fewer aspect warriors than other Craftworlds because the Path of the Seer TAKES SO LONG, and the ones who become Farseers have no time for the Path of the Warrior. Warlocks, who used to tread the Path of the Warrior, are basically just battle-focused novices on the Path of the Seer. Now think about how long an Eldar lives. And they don't have enough time in their lives to be both an Aspect Warrior and a Farseer. Some paths may end quickly, but really important ones seem to take a long time.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Lot of people saying things without evidence backing up their statements. Eldar can change paths without spending a very long time on them (though it still isn't switching from one day to the next) as shown by the following description of the Path system way of life:

But like all journeys, the Path is different for each of us. Some wander for a long while in one place; some spread their travels wide and visit many places for a short time while others remain for a long time to explore every nook and turn; some of us lose our way and leave the Path for a time or forever; and some of us find dead ends and become trapped.

-BL novel, Path of the Outcast preface (but also repeated in each of the preceding Eldar Path novels)

One common misconception is that Craftworld life is monk-like. The Path books show the existence of a Path called the Path of the Dreamer, which is literally spending all day sitting around daydreaming (with or without the aid of psychotropic drugs). All their physical needs are looked after while they daydream. It is only monk-like in comparison to the Dark Eldar and Corsair lifestyle in that Eldar have to make a choice and stick with it for a reasonable length of time instead of changing around as their whims dictate.

And that quote from the novels doesn't really invalidate what I posted earlier. It just describes the entire Path system in more poetic terms, covering the broad spectrum of said system, the ups, and the downs, of it.

Actually it does invalidate the assertion that Eldar must fully master a path before moving on. It specifically says some Eldar spend only a relatively short time on a path and take many paths while others pursue a single path to fully explore it, and some become trapped. The character of Korlandril in the Path of the Warrior does exactly that, switching from the Path of the Dreamer to that of the Artist and then to Warrior, all before he has fully mastered each path.

Bottom line 73% of people would rather be an Eldar and have the opportunity to do the **** they want like path of the Dreamer rofl or whatever than be a human under Nazi-Imperial rule that can be shot for sometime as not showing up to work. (Treason).

Also living on a craftworld is probably safer than any human planet other than say Mars or Terra. And those are targets of Black Crusades every few hundred years.

I said it has better standards of living. I didn't say I would live there.

DorianGray wrote:
Bottom line 73% of people would rather be an Eldar and have the opportunity to do the **** they want like path of the Dreamer rofl or whatever than be a human under Nazi-Imperial rule that can be shot for sometime as not showing up to work. (Treason).

Also living on a craftworld is probably safer than any human planet other than say Mars or Terra. And those are targets of Black Crusades every few hundred years.

Craftworlds are safe for their residents, though some might argue it is stifling. The main character of Path of the Outcast briefly considers the idea of suicide by leaping off a high bridge. He discards it as unlikely to succeed as the Craftworld's systems would likely generate a forcefield in time to catch him.

One thing hinted at in the Path of the Eldar trilogy is that the Craftworlds have a gestalt and that this influences the individual Eldar. For example, when the Craftworld needed a replacement for an Aspect Warrior that had been killed, an Eldar on the Craftworld would find themselves drawn onto the Path of the Warrior, though they would find their own individual reasons for doing so. Thus it seems the Eldar on a Craftworld all end up choosing paths that meet their society's needs, without being consciously ordered to do anything.

That's the Infinity Circuit for you. An artificial afterlife as a space ship AI, your personality and mind subsumed within the mass.

Iracundus wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Lot of people saying things without evidence backing up their statements. Eldar can change paths without spending a very long time on them (though it still isn't switching from one day to the next) as shown by the following description of the Path system way of life:

But like all journeys, the Path is different for each of us. Some wander for a long while in one place; some spread their travels wide and visit many places for a short time while others remain for a long time to explore every nook and turn; some of us lose our way and leave the Path for a time or forever; and some of us find dead ends and become trapped.

-BL novel, Path of the Outcast preface (but also repeated in each of the preceding Eldar Path novels)

One common misconception is that Craftworld life is monk-like. The Path books show the existence of a Path called the Path of the Dreamer, which is literally spending all day sitting around daydreaming (with or without the aid of psychotropic drugs). All their physical needs are looked after while they daydream. It is only monk-like in comparison to the Dark Eldar and Corsair lifestyle in that Eldar have to make a choice and stick with it for a reasonable length of time instead of changing around as their whims dictate.

And that quote from the novels doesn't really invalidate what I posted earlier. It just describes the entire Path system in more poetic terms, covering the broad spectrum of said system, the ups, and the downs, of it.

Actually it does invalidate the assertion that Eldar must fully master a path before moving on. It specifically says some Eldar spend only a relatively short time on a path and take many paths while others pursue a single path to fully explore it, and some become trapped. The character of Korlandril in the Path of the Warrior does exactly that, switching from the Path of the Dreamer to that of the Artist and then to Warrior, all before he has fully mastered each path.

And here is the problem. As usual, GW and the BL authors can't get their heads and asses wired together straight. You're using a Black Library series of novels as a source. I'm using other official materials as a source. Both are equally valid, thus causing (even more) lore inconsistencies.


So, in the end, I guess it boils down to what lore you want to follow. Therefore, I concede the point.

Craftworlds are glorified lifeboats to the Eldar. They used to have real worlds, these craftworlds are like a prison to them.
They are stifling religious communes with psychic circuitry throughout, so you can always feel what everyone feels, which is usually some combination of the doom of their race, depression, anger at Monkeigh, sorrow at the loss of so many Eldar in some pointless attempt to stave off extinction, fear of Slannesh etc.

The rules are so restrictive and the atmosphere so repressive that even Eldar dont want to live there- thus you have Rangers and Pirates who would rather strike off on their own into an uncaring galaxy than stay one more day living in a bubble with a bunch of fundamentalists and a giant idol of a war god screaming softly about burning their houses down.


However, I'd imagine most hive worlders would quite like to live in a craftworld, once they'd lowered the ceilings, the chairs and removed the inhabitants.

Deadshot who advocates murdering all non-humans would hate this thread. He cannot accept that anything non-human is superior. Humanist bigot.

DorianGray wrote:
Deadshot who advocates murdering all non-humans would hate this thread. He cannot accept that anything non-human is superior. Humanist bigot.

Wow, okay, uf you want to attack me say it to my face mate. I'm not saying Eldar aren't superior beings, they are biologically, intellectually and technologically superior. But I'd take a gakky ass human, even Donald Fething Trump, over a non-human any day of the week. Stick with your own kind. And also, if you want to have that debate, go back to the other thread and I'll have it out with you there.


Apologies to all other posters in the thread.

DorianGray wrote:
Deadshot who advocates murdering all non-humans would hate this thread. He cannot accept that anything non-human is superior. Humanist bigot.

will you grow up and not act like a pouting kid? You're arguing with him in another thread, so you think to come here and try and get more people pissy so you can feel more justified in your argument? I'm not even on the other guys side and you're acting like a donkey-cave.


in reguards to the post itself: I actually think the standard imperial citizen has it better: techincally speaking there is much more variety across the imperium so there could be multiple planets where the only key feature is to worship the emperor, and beyond that it's a carbon copy of earth. My view is a bit skewed on this because (in my oppinion) the biggest problem with craft-world life is the lack of personal freedoms and the fact that if you ever slip up: immediate death by chaos god.

 Brennonjw wrote:
if you ever slip up: immediate death by chaos god.

That's quite the exaggeration.

Frankly, I think Ork society is more just than the Imperium.

Certainly, Ork Society has the most opportunities. Every single member (With the exception of Squigs and Gretchin) can go from humble roots to the most powerful Warlord out there with no limit - all it takes is determination to win and a healthy appetite for war.

Orks have one of, if not the ONLY perfectly functioning economy and society: no real poverty, everyone is generally happy, no one is FORCED to stick on the bottom so long as they are stronger then 1 other person/thing. You're broke? COOL! pull a few teeth from that one ork your bigger then!

Kinda begs the question of what they do with the teeth afterwards? At least gold sorta looks nice...

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Kinda begs the question of what they do with the teeth afterwards? At least gold sorta looks nice...

What do you mean "what do they do with the teeth?" they spend them of course. Every ork knows that if you wait to long the teef will rot.

Yeah, it is money. What do you do with dollars afterwards? you spend it.

And the rotting nature of teeth means hoarding is impossible.

Hmm, I'm not sure I want to explain my thinking because it'll become a pointless philosophical debate about the need for money in a fictitious and highly violent society created by a company who's track record for well rounded ideas is... limited. I'm not sure going into an in-depth debate about financial systems is going to add anything to this thread so... meh. Forget I asked the question.