Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Can a D-thirster make his attack in his own initiative step(i9) if he get axe of khorne or blade of blood from lesser/greater rewards and decided to use it rather than D-axe?

Yup. I have his rules right in front of me. The weapon itself causes the I1 attack. If you use a different weapon, the D axe rules won't come into effect.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Yup. I have his rules right in front of me. The weapon itself causes the I1 attack. If you use a different weapon, the D axe rules won't come into effect.

Wrong. The D axe specifically states "a model carrying" which is different from say how the unwieldy rule is written.

Using another weapon does not make you "not carry" the weapon.

DaPino wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Yup. I have his rules right in front of me. The weapon itself causes the I1 attack. If you use a different weapon, the D axe rules won't come into effect.

Wrong. The D axe specifically states "a model carrying" which is different from say how the unwieldy rule is written.

Using another weapon does not make you "not carry" the weapon.

This is why it has it's own colossal rule as opposed to just making the axe unwieldy

The 'Colossal' rule applies when the model is carrying it. As long as the model has a weapon with the 'Colossal' rule, it piles in and attacks at the I1 step - regardless of whether the model is using it to make its attacks or not.

It's the same logic that allows a KDK character to use the Goredrinker's rules with a different weapon (and thus get around the 'Unwieldy' penalty).

And the same logic that allows a SW Rune Priest to use his Runic Axe's psychic nullification rule when he's not even attacking with the weapon.

While that is definitely the RAW, I personally think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who plays weapons in that way. There is an abundance of weapons that technically do work this way, but are never used this way.

Certainly the tournament FAQ pack used in Australian tournaments says that special rules on weapons (whether advantages or disadvantages) are only activated when using that weapon, even if the rule says 'when carried'.

 jokerkd wrote:
This is why it has it's own colossal rule as opposed to just making the axe unwieldy

Unwieldy doesn't apply to monstrous creatures - making the axe unwieldy would have done nothing.

Trasvi wrote:
While that is definitely the RAW, I personally think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who plays weapons in that way. There is an abundance of weapons that technically do work this way, but are never used this way.

Certainly the tournament FAQ pack used in Australian tournaments says that special rules on weapons (whether advantages or disadvantages) are only activated when using that weapon, even if the rule says 'when carried'.

 jokerkd wrote:
This is why it has it's own colossal rule as opposed to just making the axe unwieldy

Unwieldy doesn't apply to monstrous creatures - making the axe unwieldy would have done nothing.

The problem is there are weapons that only have effects outside of combat wear you can't wield it (such as Axe of Blind Fury which causes a -1 BS)

This is the same issue with a Harlequin Solitaire with a Kiss & Caress. The Kiss says a model "equipped with" makes an additional attack at str6 AP2. So can you use the Caress (6's to Hit are 'rending') and get the bonus Kiss attack?

The jury is still out

 Galef wrote:
The Kiss says a model "equipped with" makes an additional attack at str6 AP2.

To be complete, that isn't what it says. It's not an additional attack.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Galef wrote:
The Kiss says a model "equipped with" makes an additional attack at str6 AP2.

To be complete, that isn't what it says. It's not an additional attack.

Sorry, don't have my codex on hand. The point was that 1 of the models attacks is at str6 ap2 for being equipped. Does that mean you may use a different CC weapon for the rest of your attacks?
The argument usually goes in a circle.

 Galef wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Galef wrote:
The Kiss says a model "equipped with" makes an additional attack at str6 AP2.

To be complete, that isn't what it says. It's not an additional attack.

Sorry, don't have my codex on hand. The point was that 1 of the models attacks is at str6 ap2 for being equipped. Does that mean you may use a different CC weapon for the rest of your attacks?
The argument usually goes in a circle.

The argument usually goes in circles because the BRB strictly prohibits mixing and matching in weapon abilities of weapons you aren't fighting with, BUT the wording on the Kiss ability sure makes it seem like it can be used when using a different weapon, BUT we probably shouldn't be reading the text at all if we don't have access to the rule, BUT... etc, etc.

It seems like yet another example where the author's said "hey wouldn't it be cool if XYZ", not realizing that the core rules prohibit XYZ from ever happening.

I don't see how anyone could argue that the D-thirster could strike at I9 with another weapon. That is the downside of taking the D on a freaking bloodthirster, you always strike at I1. RAW and RAI, no arguments about it. The dude doesn't need a house ruling because you can just give him a ++3 or make him invisible. Toss the relic armor on him to make him effectively T7!

 jokerkd wrote:

DaPino wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Yup. I have his rules right in front of me. The weapon itself causes the I1 attack. If you use a different weapon, the D axe rules won't come into effect.

Wrong. The D axe specifically states "a model carrying" which is different from say how the unwieldy rule is written.

Using another weapon does not make you "not carry" the weapon.

This is why it has it's own colossal rule as opposed to just making the axe unwieldy

Not necessarily correct,

This is probably done because unwieldy doesn't affect MC's.

Every single major tournament and any smaller tournament I've ever been to rules that they can use their I9 initiative with other weapons they gain from gifts.

The bottom line is pre-check with your tournament organizer and use that as precedent.

I understand people's frustrations when TOs make house rules that directly contradict both RAW and RAI

GW is so random with rules and wording it's no wonder TO try to even things out

Trasvi wrote:
While that is definitely the RAW, I personally think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who plays weapons in that way. There is an abundance of weapons that technically do work this way, but are never used this way.

Certainly the tournament FAQ pack used in Australian tournaments says that special rules on weapons (whether advantages or disadvantages) are only activated when using that weapon, even if the rule says 'when carried'.

 jokerkd wrote:
This is why it has it's own colossal rule as opposed to just making the axe unwieldy

Unwieldy doesn't apply to monstrous creatures - making the axe unwieldy would have done nothing.

It's also the RAI. That rule is there exactly to prevent people from taking a lesser reward on D-thirsters to have an on-initiative alternative.
That's the whole point of the D-thirster,p it's the risk for taking it.

If the had intended it any other way, they would have written "a model striking with this weapons strikes at initiative 1."

DaPino wrote:

Trasvi wrote:
While that is definitely the RAW, I personally think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who plays weapons in that way. There is an abundance of weapons that technically do work this way, but are never used this way.

Certainly the tournament FAQ pack used in Australian tournaments says that special rules on weapons (whether advantages or disadvantages) are only activated when using that weapon, even if the rule says 'when carried'.

 jokerkd wrote:
This is why it has it's own colossal rule as opposed to just making the axe unwieldy

Unwieldy doesn't apply to monstrous creatures - making the axe unwieldy would have done nothing.

It's also the RAI. That rule is there exactly to prevent people from taking a lesser reward on D-thirsters to have an on-initiative alternative.
That's the whole point of the D-thirster,p it's the risk for taking it.

If the had intended it any other way, they would have written "a model striking with this weapons strikes at initiative 1."

Which they did write when they gave IKs the colossal rule on their thunder gauntlets