Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In general, are melta vets in chimeras/valkyries my best anti armor (and MC killers, although I understand plasma would be better here)? I'm mainly talking knights (and WKs).

Are tanks even a remotely viable option anymore? The vanquisher just seems so lackluster. Sure, crazy range, solid damage, but a single shot with a 50% chance of hitting? Decently like to pen a knight, but then you need to worry about the shields, and the fact that you're only doing a single hull point a turn. Will a vanquisher ever pay for itself against any of the new big scaries? Sure, it might be decent against stuff that won't do a ton of shooting back (land raiders, other guard tanks, tiny stuff that a standard leman russ will be able to take out on their own).

I just can't get behind a tank that's only doing a hull point against a knight once every 3 or 4 turns, when a veteran squad will 3 meltas will be able to do "essentially" at least one guaranteed hull point a turn.

Short of a shadowsword what else can guard really do?

Vanquishers, in my opinion, are only going to be reliable if there's a tank commander in it, or having one alongside Pask who gives preferred enemy. I don't have my references to hand, but I'm pretty sure there's a perk in one of the Mont'Ka formations that gives tanks within 12 inches of a Tank Commander BS4... Not 100% sure on that one but I'm sure someone could check it out.

Shadowswords are our only D-weapon without allying in other factions to my knowledge, unless there's something else available through Forgeworld that I haven't come across yet?

Ally in some ABG then you can have two BS4 vanquishers with instant death small blast.

 Intercessor wrote:
Ally in some ABG then you can have two BS4 vanquishers with instant death small blast.

Where can you find the rules for ABG? Imperial Armor 1?

What you want is the Command Tank from the Armoured Battlegroup list available in IA1 2nd ed.
It has BS4 a Coaxial H. Stubber that if it hits makes the main gun twin linked and can purchase Beashunter shell that are str8 ap2 instant death. The range means you can park it in one corner of the board and can reach anywhere. I have tried it against non inv Wraithknghits and it has a good amount of scare factor. Ditto for riptides.
Now for imperial knights i have never faced them so can't help you there. Worth noting that Melta Vets can be upgraded with Meltabombs and if they can pull of a charge they will do some damage before the stomps kill them off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also you can get 3 Vanquishers, two from the HQ section and one from the Elites (Commisar tank). The HQ ones have Tank orders of which you will only use the one that forces the opponent to reroll successful coversaves and the Commissar Tank gives Imperial Guard infantry in 6" Ld10.
But they are oh so expensive in points.

I used 2 melta vet squads with chimera and demolitions, 2 suicide melta stormies, 1 vendetta and pask vanquisher team to kill a knight in 3 turns. Would've been 2 turns but had poor rolling. Just make sure you surround that gakk and feed him crap so he doesn't charge pask.

Paskisher with a Tri-plas Executioner is great for killing WKs, or with an Exterminator with Las/MM for Knights. Unfortunately the squadron will cost over 400 points and be limited by the Punisher Cannon's range.

I use Beast Hunter Vanquishers all the time and they definitely do a lot of work, but they cost 205 each so take that as you will. They're fantastic for killing Riptides, however, as they can one-shot them with the Instant Death.

The best tactics against MC, GMC, SHW that i've found is swarming them with conscripts or platoon. As for vehicles, they've never been an issue since guards have a reasonable amount of AT.

An alternative to putting vets in a chimera is to abuse the unlimited detachments and take multiple cadian battlegroup CCS's. For 165 points you get a 5 man BS4 squad with 4 meltaguns. Inside the Chimera they can only fire 2 yes, but if their metal box breaks, or you disembark them in the movement phase next to their intended target, they can dump 4 BS4 meltaguns and order themselves to be TW/MH and TH/Ignores cover using LD9 and 3d6 (dropping the lowest) for the order. Not a bad package for killing MC's and Vehicles if you ask me.

You can equip different weapons to the CCS to suit your needs as well, though prices may vary (plasma, melta, flamers, etc..), and even fit them in Vendettas because their squad size is so small. One of the army lists I came up with involves using the Aerial Company formation to field 3 vendettas and put one of these CCS's inside each one, then use the Aerial Company's formation rules to have all the vendettas come in at once and grav chute the CCS's without deviation right next to their intended target. It's very niche though, and something I'd only use against an army that I think is going to spam MC's or Vehicles as it takes up a ton of points. The result though is enough accurate, high str, low AP firepower to reliably kill almost any MC or destroy almost any vehicle with just one of these squads.

Otherwise the Vanquishers with beasthunter rounds sound pretty sexy to me.

An often overlooked Tank Variant the Annihilator I have found excels at this, especially if kitted out with both a hull and turret TL-Lascannon. You can also not go wrong with the Exterminator, x4 TL-Autocannon shots especially combined with Heavy Bolter Sponsons I have found take care of Tyranid Monstrous Creatures quite nicely.

In a lot of my lists I'll ally in SM drop pods with melta. Guard has workable anti-tank options but nothing that can reliably kill on turn 1. That with 2 squads of melta vets is enough to take care of most tanks I face. Our group doesn't usually use super heavies. Vendettas went up in cost but 3 TL lascannons is great anti-air and is enough to deal with anything short of a land raider.

I usually run mech lists but if I am going infantry heavy, a autocannon heavy weapon team with the tank hunter order has worked excellent. They can sit on the back on an objective and are cheap enough to bring 2-3. 6 shots means 3 will hit and tank hunter means I can get 2-3 damaging shots.

Infantry blob with Misfortune (giving rending IIRC correctly) from an Inquisitor/Psyker is always funny against MC. You can spam AP2 wounds with lasguns if you are decently lucky.

Suicide Scions squads with meltas anyone?

Punisher Pask? -will reliably rend MC's and Armour alike to death?

 GamerGuy wrote:
Punisher Pask? -will reliably rend MC's and Armour alike to death?

Wraith Knights will hit pask punisher with destroyer weapons before he reliably shoots at them.