Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm planning on getting back into 40K and am working on some new armies. As part of my research, I've been looking at Batreps and winning army lists.

Just read one about an army that had 5 Storm Talons, 3 Knights, Cassius and some marines. At 1850.

I'm looking at my lists and right away I almost feel like if I faced this army, I should just concede the game.

Is this what tournament play has come to?

I mean, I already know most daemon armies will have an advantage over me. I concede that. But a list like this...come on....

General Hobbs wrote:


I'm planning on getting back into 40K and am working on some new armies. As part of my research, I've been looking at Batreps and winning army lists.

Just read one about an army that had 5 Storm Talons, 3 Knights, Cassius and some marines. At 1850.

I'm looking at my lists and right away I almost feel like if I faced this army, I should just concede the game.

Is this what tournament play has come to?

I mean, I already know most daemon armies will have an advantage over me. I concede that. But a list like this...come on....

Its the kinda thing that happens when people are told they can do what they want to do with no restrictions on list building. they min max the best things all the time, especially in tournaments and tournament type settings.
not that there is anything inherently wrong with that style of play.

you might just want to stay away from tournaments and tournament focused people. the game can be otherwise still fun.

i see all sorts of "tournament" lists and just roll my eye most of the time.

Just the one eye?

Tournaments are often about spam. I'm not sure I've come across a competitive list that doesn't spam something. They go all in on one idea, sometimes two ideas as the list you mentioned, and hope they don't come across the spam list that is a hard counter to what they have. But that's the tournament scene and competitive lists. Other places shouldn't have that much predictability.

Gotta say though, first I'm hearing of Tyrannic War Vets and Imperial Knights. I like the idea.

General Hobbs wrote:


I'm planning on getting back into 40K and am working on some new armies. As part of my research, I've been looking at Batreps and winning army lists.

Just read one about an army that had 5 Storm Talons, 3 Knights, Cassius and some marines. At 1850.

I'm looking at my lists and right away I almost feel like if I faced this army, I should just concede the game.

Is this what tournament play has come to?

I mean, I already know most daemon armies will have an advantage over me. I concede that. But a list like this...come on....

On the other hand, I think that list is sub par. Some bad reserve rolls and a decent alpha strike from your opponent and you're looking at a turn 2 tabling. Plus capping objectives would be hard. Guess it all depends on your meta. Where I'm from we HAVE to use ITC or several of the guys will only bring lists with 4 invisible wraithknights and a ton of forgeworld.

To give you an idea, we have a 'friendly' CAD only casual tournament series going on right now and my first round I took my sisters against an invisible Tiggy+Marneaus+Command Squad null deploying drop pod list with FW dreadnoughts. From what i've heard on Dakka that should have been the devil, but being a child of my meta as well, my sisters managed to roast it with 15 templates a turn, had Celestine lift 2 wounds off of calgar, and nuked both of his dreads the turn they landed. He won due to smart objective play but it was still darn close. 700 point invisible deathstar in a friendly and he STILL didn't get max points. Hell, that list ended up third and the guy who took first quit the series because he thought it was super boring.

I've only played against a Knight once, with a Vanguard Vet list....One of my units hit his knight with 9 meltabombs, a Thammer and 2 storm shields in the list and he wiped them out in 2 turns. How would you alpha strike and wipe out 3 Knights?????

The Storm Talons I could weather....but seriously, 3 Knights?

I was under the impression the list I read about was for an ITV event. Maybe not.

I have nothing against spam, I'm all about fluff and theme and sometimes spam makes sense ( guard, marines, Ulthwe eldar, saim hann etc).

There's no Reserve rolls. It's the Tyrannic War Veteran Formation so the Stormtalons are Infiltrating. On the table Turn 1 in Hover Mode.

I just read somewhere that when you Penetrate a Knight, you get d3 HP of damage? Is this correct? Does it work with melee or just shooting? Argh. What about the shield, does it work in melee?

I really do not want to drop 50 bucks on the Knight's codex....

General Hobbs wrote:


I've only played against a Knight once, with a Vanguard Vet list....One of my units hit his knight with 9 meltabombs, a Thammer and 2 storm shields in the list and he wiped them out in 2 turns. How would you alpha strike and wipe out 3 Knights?????

The Storm Talons I could weather....but seriously, 3 Knights?

I was under the impression the list I read about was for an ITV event. Maybe not.

I have nothing against spam, I'm all about fluff and theme and sometimes spam makes sense ( guard, marines, Ulthwe eldar, saim hann etc).

6 squads of sisters dominions in pods+ Melta/Melta sisters in pods+ SM melta/combi-melta in pods Land on left or right side to dodge invul.
35 Swooping hawks.
4 Wraithknights.
2 Stormsurges with enough markerlight support to get 8 D missles.
Be necrons and never die to them and tie them up the whole game
Obsec.

Yeah, it can be difficult to deal with lists like this and if they catch you out you are F***ed but every competitive army has some way of dealing with it. That's why the only top tourney lists that have knights in them are the Admech War Con.

And the turn 1 infiltration of the ST actually seems worse to me. Wouldn't you pretty much lose all 5 if you got seized on? Is there something that keeps them alive for that first turn?

Jink, Line of Sight blocking terrain, Void Shield Generator, pretty much all the usual ways you'd protect Flyrants. You can also run the Knights around it Turn 1 to make intervening models. And worst case, you can still Outflank them if you want to. I've never done this competitively but I've been using the Formation since I came back into the game with my Ultramarines. It's not as survivable as Flyrants, but not as fragile as you might think.

General Hobbs wrote:


I just read somewhere that when you Penetrate a Knight, you get d3 HP of damage? Is this correct? Does it work with melee or just shooting? Argh. What about the shield, does it work in melee?

I really do not want to drop 50 bucks on the Knight's codex....

All penetrating hits cause 1 hp except Explodes! Results which cause 1 + d3 hp. It works in melee as well as shooting. This is in the main rulebook.

The knights Ion shield only works on 1 facing and only for shooting, except for the FW lancer, which can also use the shield in melee but can never cover the rear arc.

I would use this;

+++ New Roster (1500pts) +++ +++ 1500pt Adepta Sororitas: Codex (2013), Inquisition: Codex (2013) Roster (Combined Arms Detachment, Inquisitorial Detachment)) +++ Selections: Adepta Sororitas: Codex (2013) (Combined Arms Detachment) Selections: + No Force Org Slot + * Ministorum Priest (Independent Character, War Hymns, Zealot) Laspistol, Eviscerator, Frag & Krak Grenades, Rosarius * Ministorum Priest (Independent Character, War Hymns, Zealot) Laspistol, Eviscerator, Frag & Krak Grenades, Rosarius * Ministorum Priest (Independent Character, War Hymns, Zealot) Laspistol, Eviscerator, Frag & Krak Grenades, Rosarius * Ministorum Priest (Independent Character, War Hymns, Zealot) Laspistol, Eviscerator, Frag & Krak Grenades, Rosarius * Ministorum Priest (Independent Character, War Hymns, Zealot) Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades, Power Maul, Rosarius, The Book of St. Lucius + HQ + * Uriah Jacobus, Protector of the Faith (Independent Character, Martyrdom, Protector of the Faith, Shield of Faith, War Hymns, Warlord Trait: Indomitable Belief, Zealot) Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak Grenades, Rosarius, The Banner of Sanctity, The Redeemer + Elites + * Repentia Squad (Fearless, Fleet, Rage, Shield of Faith) Act of Faith: Spirit of the Martyr (Act of Faith) * Mistress of Repentance Frag & Krak Grenades, 2x Neural Whips (Neural Shock) * 9x Sister Repentia 9x Eviscerator * Repentia Squad (Fearless, Fleet, Rage, Shield of Faith) Act of Faith: Spirit of the Martyr (Act of Faith) * Mistress of Repentance Frag & Krak Grenades, Melta Bombs, 2x Neural Whips (Neural Shock) * 9x Sister Repentia 9x Eviscerator + Troops + * Battle Sister Squad (Shield of Faith) Act of Faith: Light of the Emperor (Act of Faith), 4x Battle Sisters, Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades, Meltagun, Meltagun * Immolator (Shield of Faith) Dozer Blade, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers, Twin-Linked Multi-Melta * Sister Superior Bolt Pistol, Boltgun * Battle Sister Squad (Shield of Faith) Act of Faith: Light of the Emperor (Act of Faith), 4x Battle Sisters, Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades, Meltagun, Meltagun * Immolator (Shield of Faith) Dozer Blade, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers, Twin-Linked Multi-Melta * Sister Superior Bolt Pistol, Boltgun Inquisition: Codex (2013) (Inquisitorial Detachment) Selections: + HQ + * Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor (Independent Character, Stubborn) Bolt Pistol, Carapace Armour, Chainsword, Frag and Krak Grenades, Psyk-out Grenades (*) + Elites + * Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband * 3 x Acolyte Chainsword, Flak Armour, Laspistol * Land Raider Redeemer (Assault Vehicle, Frag Assault Launchers, Power of the Machine Spirit) 2 x Flamestorm Cannons, Smoke Launchers, Twin Linked Assault Cannons * Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband * 3 x Acolyte Chainsword, Flak Armour, Laspistol * Land Raider Redeemer (Assault Vehicle, Frag Assault Launchers, Power of the Machine Spirit) 2 x Flamestorm Cannons, Smoke Launchers, Twin Linked Assault Cannons
Created with BattleScribe

My strategy for tournaments: lose the first round badly vs. some powerlist and then have fun games at the end tables

As stated that list is definitely not as hard to deal with as some of the top 8 lists you saw at LVO.

having 5 hovering talons and 3 knights definitely gives you some target saturation.. i would be inclined to wipe out all the talons (playing with tau or eldar as my mains); I have ample access to s6-7 weapons that just wipe <=AV12 off the table.

Knights are big, and they can be tough, but with some good play you can force choices on where he pops his shield facing, and if all that fails.. there is enough D weapons floating around it shouldn't be an issue for most tourney players.

Remember as well a WK is I5.. so in CC with average rolls I think a WK will win pretty much every time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just wanted to add i just read those same batreps... if anyone else wants.. they are

HERE ON BOLS