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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




What the guy did was reprehensible, but I don't think running him through that ringer again is right. I'd call it good with him stuck in prison with no chance of parole.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/16/us/ohio-botched-execution-case/index.html

Story highlights
Court rules killer can be put to death after state botched its first execution attempt
Romell Broom was punctured at least 18 times in 2009
A medical team was unable to find a vein to administer a lethal injection drug
(CNN)Ohio's highest court ruled Wednesday that the state can again try to execute a convicted murderer more than six years after its first botched attempt was called off after nearly two hours.

In a 4-3 decision, the state Supreme Court rejected the appeal of death row inmate Romell Broom, who had argued that a second turn at capital punishment would violate his constitutional protections against double jeopardy and cruel and unusual punishment.

Broom was found guilty of aggravated murder in 1985 in connection with the rape and death of 14-year-old Tryna Middleton.

In 2009, a medical team at the Southern Ohio Correctional Facility was unable to access a vein to administer a lethal injection after at least 18 puncture attempts, prison officials said. Former Gov. Ted Strickland then granted an emergency reprieve.

An appeal from Broom's legal team that challenged further execution attempts by the state wound its way through the state court system before it was ultimately denied on Wednesday.

"Because Broom's life was never at risk since the drugs were not introduced, and because the state is committed to carrying out executions in a constitutional manner, we do not believe that it would shock the public's conscience to allow the state to carry out Broom's execution," Justice Judith Ann Lanzinger wrote in the majority opinion.

Broom's lawyers, Timothy F. Sweeney and S. Adele Shank, expressed disappointment with the divided decision.

"Mr. Broom has been informed of the decision and remains in good spirits," the statement said. "He looks forward to pursuing the additional legal remedies available to him."

No date for Broom's second execution attempt has been set, according to his lawyers. The execution schedule for Ohio's other death row inmates has been delayed as the state works to secure a supply of the necessary drug.

In its appeal, Broom's legal team argued that the inmate, "by virtue of the two hours of painful efforts to insert needles into his body," had already received punishment and that a second attempt at execution would be in violation of the double jeopardy protection against multiple punishments for the same offense, according to the opinion.

The Supreme Court disagreed, saying the botched execution attempt had stopped short of a fulfilled punishment.

"The execution commences when the lethal drug enters the IV line. In this case, because the attempt did not proceed to the point of injection of a lethal drug into the IV line, jeopardy never attached," Lanzinger wrote.

A second argument, that a retried execution would constitute cruel and unusual punishment, was also rebuffed by a majority of the court.

"The state's intention in carrying out the execution is not to cause unnecessary physical pain or psychological harm, and the pain and emotional trauma Broom already experienced do not equate with the type of torture prohibited by the Eighth Amendment," Lanzinger wrote.

Sweeney said Wednesday that it was too early to say whether specific appeals would be made but outlined two options -- including taking the case to the U.S. Supreme Court and a pending 2010 federal petition, which had previously been stayed, to allow for the appeal to go through the state court system.

In a dissenting opinion, Justice William M. O'Neill said the description of the first botched execution "chills me to the core. "

"I believe as a moral and constitutional matter that subjecting Broom to a second execution attempt after even one extremely painful and unsuccessful attempt is precisely the sort of 'lingering death' that the United States Supreme Court recognized as cruel within the meaning of the Eighth Amendment 125 years ago," O'Neill wrote.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/03/16 22:44:37


 
   
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This is why point blank shotgun to the head is better than injection. Cheaper, instant, no chance of running out of the drug and no need to find a vein.

Sure, it's messier, but you get results.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/16 22:49:29


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Chicago

 Nostromodamus wrote:
This is why point blank shotgun to the head is better than injection. Cheaper, instant, no chance of running out of the drug and no need to find a vein.

Sure, it's messier, but you get results.


We've already had this discussion many times before and it falls under cruel and unusual punishment.

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Wait how exactly is it Cruel and unusual for a firing squad?

I could see it being kinda cruel for the people administering it but thats why they are not all loaded.

Would rather they just bring back the guillotine. Quick and eco friendly

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/16 22:58:40


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
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Building a blood in water scent

The state has no business executing people, even disgusting gak stains like the one.

We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".

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 Ustrello wrote:
 Nostromodamus wrote:
This is why point blank shotgun to the head is better than injection. Cheaper, instant, no chance of running out of the drug and no need to find a vein.

Sure, it's messier, but you get results.


We've already had this discussion many times before and it falls under cruel and unusual punishment.


Raping and killing children is cruel and unusual.

Blowing this donkey-cave's head off is doing everyone a favor.

"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" 
   
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 feeder wrote:
The state has no business executing people, even disgusting gak stains like the one.

On the contrary, the State has a duty to protect law abiding society from criminals. Extremely violent, psychotic, sociopathic, homicidal, etc... piles of worthless gak like baby rapist-killers, terrorists, serial killers, etc..., are safest once they stop breathing.

 
   
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Chicago

 Nostromodamus wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
 Nostromodamus wrote:
This is why point blank shotgun to the head is better than injection. Cheaper, instant, no chance of running out of the drug and no need to find a vein.

Sure, it's messier, but you get results.


We've already had this discussion many times before and it falls under cruel and unusual punishment.


Raping and killing children is cruel and unusual.

Blowing this donkey-cave's head off is doing everyone a favor.


Sure throw out the 8th amendment just because you don't like it, I guess I can start throwing out ones I don't like either.

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 Ustrello wrote:
 Nostromodamus wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
 Nostromodamus wrote:
This is why point blank shotgun to the head is better than injection. Cheaper, instant, no chance of running out of the drug and no need to find a vein.

Sure, it's messier, but you get results.


We've already had this discussion many times before and it falls under cruel and unusual punishment.


Raping and killing children is cruel and unusual.

Blowing this donkey-cave's head off is doing everyone a favor.


Sure throw out the 8th amendment just because you don't like it, I guess I can start throwing out ones I don't like either.


Death by firing squad has been ruled to not be cruel and unusual, therefore the 8th is not violated.

Utah just had a firing squad execution last year, for example.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/16 23:43:57


"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" 
   
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Chicago

 Nostromodamus wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
 Nostromodamus wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
 Nostromodamus wrote:
This is why point blank shotgun to the head is better than injection. Cheaper, instant, no chance of running out of the drug and no need to find a vein.

Sure, it's messier, but you get results.


We've already had this discussion many times before and it falls under cruel and unusual punishment.


Raping and killing children is cruel and unusual.

Blowing this donkey-cave's head off is doing everyone a favor.


Sure throw out the 8th amendment just because you don't like it, I guess I can start throwing out ones I don't like either.


Death by firing squad has been ruled to not be cruel and unusual, therefore the 8th is not violated.

Utah just had a firing squad execution last year, for example.


Firing squad ≠ putting a shotgun in someone's mouth and pulling the trigger.

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Building a blood in water scent

Experiment 626 wrote:
 feeder wrote:
The state has no business executing people, even disgusting gak stains like the one.

On the contrary, the State has a duty to protect law abiding society from criminals. Extremely violent, psychotic, sociopathic, homicidal, etc... piles of worthless gak like baby rapist-killers, terrorists, serial killers, etc..., are safest once they stop breathing.


I agree with you in principle. In practice, however, there is no state that has shown itself to be capable of carrying out executions responsibly.

We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".

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 Ustrello wrote:
 Nostromodamus wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
 Nostromodamus wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
 Nostromodamus wrote:
This is why point blank shotgun to the head is better than injection. Cheaper, instant, no chance of running out of the drug and no need to find a vein.

Sure, it's messier, but you get results.


We've already had this discussion many times before and it falls under cruel and unusual punishment.


Raping and killing children is cruel and unusual.

Blowing this donkey-cave's head off is doing everyone a favor.


Sure throw out the 8th amendment just because you don't like it, I guess I can start throwing out ones I don't like either.


Death by firing squad has been ruled to not be cruel and unusual, therefore the 8th is not violated.

Utah just had a firing squad execution last year, for example.


Firing squad ≠ putting a shotgun in someone's mouth and pulling the trigger.


Correct. Its actually less cruel since its far far more likely to cause instant death than the uncertainty of lining up a bunch of guys with rifles. And its not unusual either, people have been executed by firing squad for centuries.

Point blank high caliber bullets to the back of the head should be the method of execution we use, not some crazy expensive chemical cocktail. Only drugs we should use in the process is something to render them unconscious if desired.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/17 00:39:52


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I got my Desert Eagle 0.50 Cal all ready to go. I have ZERO qualms with putting it to the base of a human's head and pulling that trigger ... but only the ones that the state gives me the go-ahead on.

China does this and then sends the bill for the round to the prisoner's remaining family ... or so I have heard.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/03/17 00:53:22


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If no drug was actually administered to the condemned's system, then the sentence wasn't carried out. The court made the right call.

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USA

 oldravenman3025 wrote:


If no drug was actually administered to the condemned's system, then the sentence wasn't carried out. The court made the right call.


I don't like the death penalty but I think this is about right. Far as I know, people are protected from government feth ups only when there is actual jeopardy. No drugs running through the needle = not in jeopardy and it sounds like the execution was never even started because someone couldn't figure out how to tie the hangman's noose.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/17 02:20:02


   
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I think I can get it under ten try's. Though would the condemned be willing...or does he actually get a choice in....wait wait....he can watch us hang glad bags stuffed to his weight...

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Denison, Iowa

 Ustrello wrote:
 Nostromodamus wrote:
This is why point blank shotgun to the head is better than injection. Cheaper, instant, no chance of running out of the drug and no need to find a vein.

Sure, it's messier, but you get results.


We've already had this discussion many times before and it falls under cruel and unusual punishment.


Firing Squad is still a viable option in a couple states. (one did away with it, but an inmate had all ready submitted his request for firing squad, so that one execution has been grandfathered in). I really don't see what is cruel about it. It's faster, less chance for pain, and more chance of success.








Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ustrello wrote:
 Nostromodamus wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
 Nostromodamus wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
 Nostromodamus wrote:
This is why point blank shotgun to the head is better than injection. Cheaper, instant, no chance of running out of the drug and no need to find a vein.

Sure, it's messier, but you get results.


We've already had this discussion many times before and it falls under cruel and unusual punishment.


Raping and killing children is cruel and unusual.

Blowing this donkey-cave's head off is doing everyone a favor.


Sure throw out the 8th amendment just because you don't like it, I guess I can start throwing out ones I don't like either.


Death by firing squad has been ruled to not be cruel and unusual, therefore the 8th is not violated.

Utah just had a firing squad execution last year, for example.


Firing squad ≠ putting a shotgun in someone's mouth and pulling the trigger.



No one mentioned putting the gun in the inmate's mouth. I'd give him the option of a blindfold/bag, and point the gun (possibly a double barrel for assurance?) 2 inches away from the back of his immobilized head.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2016/03/17 03:22:40


 
   
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Somewhere in south-central England.

 Desubot wrote:
Wait how exactly is it Cruel and unusual for a firing squad?

I could see it being kinda cruel for the people administering it but thats why they are not all loaded.

Would rather they just bring back the guillotine. Quick and eco friendly


Firing squad is not a point-blank shotgun to the head.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

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The Rock

 OIIIIIIO wrote:
I got my Desert Eagle 0.50 Cal all ready to go. I have ZERO qualms with putting it to the base of a human's head and pulling that trigger


You talk a good talk, but I really doubt that you would.

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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

I don't really support the death penalty, but re-attempting an unsuccessful execution is not double jeopardy. It's simply not in any way related.

In my opinion, even if the poison had reached his vein and he simply had not died, under our laws they'd be free to add more until he did.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/17 09:06:00


 lord_blackfang wrote:
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 Flinty wrote:
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Birmingham, UK

His victim isn't coming back. His family are still around. Give the guy life and his spectre disappears. No appeals, no media, he is gone.

18 times. So long as the right procedures were followed 18 attempts were made at execution, and all failed. The jeopardy law could be changed and possibly should be.

Execution is barbaric. All methods. Why not just errect tall towers and throw people off of them. then have wild dogs, or pigs at the base to tuck into the remains. It'll be as effective as firing squads or lethal injection, or gas or whatever is humane(read: acceptable for those administering or viewing)


   
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We'll find out soon enough eh.

Experiment 626 wrote:
 feeder wrote:
The state has no business executing people, even disgusting gak stains like the one.

On the contrary, the State has a duty to protect law abiding society from criminals. Extremely violent, psychotic, sociopathic, homicidal, etc... piles of worthless gak like baby rapist-killers, terrorists, serial killers, etc..., are safest once they stop breathing.


But they're safe enough locked behind bars, and that doesn't run the risk of the state murdering innocent people. Not to mention it is possible to treat the mentally-ill and reform the criminally violent, so if the purpose of the justice system is, as it should be in a civilised society, to protect society not exact petty revenge by proxy then execution is indefensible. Which it is.

I find the execution debate one of the more hilariously ironic; people who don't trust the government to run schools, regulate businesses, or even collect and spend taxes are perfectly happy to give them the power and authority to murder any citizen they choose to, and most of them are clamouring for it to be quicker, easier, and require less evidence to get to that stage. Utterly mental.

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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Mr. Burning wrote:
His victim isn't coming back. His family are still around. Give the guy life and his spectre disappears. No appeals, no media, he is gone.

18 times. So long as the right procedures were followed 18 attempts were made at execution, and all failed. The jeopardy law could be changed and possibly should be.


It shouldn't, because it is not related, at all.

However, if you argue that the state's method of lethal injection lends itself to incompetence, and thus will likely be handled in a cruel and unusual way, that's a way better argument.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/17 11:52:58


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

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 Kilkrazy wrote:

Firing squad is not a point-blank shotgun to the head.


Why not? Better assurance of instant death than several men shooting at the chest from a distance. Can even be done remotely, there doesn't have to be a hooded executioner looming over him.

Mr. Burning wrote:Why not just errect tall towers and throw people off of them. then have wild dogs, or pigs at the base to tuck into the remains.


Because that would likely constitute a cruel and unusual punshment, which the 8th amendment protects against.

Yodhrin wrote:
I find the execution debate one of the more hilariously ironic; people who don't trust the government to run schools, regulate businesses, or even collect and spend taxes are perfectly happy to give them the power and authority to murder any citizen they choose to


Most people who don't trust "the government" with those things are talking about the Federal government. The Death Penalty is a State government issue.

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Birmingham, UK

 Ouze wrote:
 Mr. Burning wrote:
His victim isn't coming back. His family are still around. Give the guy life and his spectre disappears. No appeals, no media, he is gone.

18 times. So long as the right procedures were followed 18 attempts were made at execution, and all failed. The jeopardy law could be changed and possibly should be.


It shouldn't, because it is not related, at all.

However, if you argue that the state's method of lethal injection lends itself to incompetence, and thus will likely be handled in a cruel and unusual way, that's a way better argument.


I would probably argue that using poison, gas or electricity to execute someone is cruel and unusual - but is seen as acceptable because it may have less detrimental effects on those responsible for administering the procedure. And may be less detrimental to those administering said procedures when something goes wrong.

Is the 8th amendment the one to cite for cruel and unusual punishment?
   
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I propose the method of execution should be changed to impalement with a spear or long sword. This is so that if it doesn't work the first time the executioner can take a second stab at it.

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Birmingham, UK

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I propose the method of execution should be changed to impalement with a spear or long sword. This is so that if it doesn't work the first time the executioner can take a second stab at it.


What if they feth it up 18 times?

   
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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Mr. Burning wrote:
I would probably argue that using poison, gas or electricity to execute someone is cruel and unusual - but is seen as acceptable because it may have less detrimental effects on those responsible for administering the procedure. And may be less detrimental to those administering said procedures when something goes wrong.

Is the 8th amendment the one to cite for cruel and unusual punishment?


Yes.

I personally agree with the people who would go with firearms, for two reasons. The first is that if you use a shotgun, double ought, point blank at the base of someone's skull, I think there is virtually no chance that the person would not be instantly (and thus painlessly) killed, even in the hands of a less-talented executioner. Shotgun suicides are not invariably fatal. but I think that's because a variety of factors that would not be present here.

The second reason is a bit selfish, perhaps, but I also would prefer that the execution be as messy as possible. No pseudo-medical procedure here. You go in knowing damn well you're going to kill a guy, and if you aren't willing to see the gore and clean it up, then maybe you shouldn't be in the state-sanctioned murder business.


I support the death penalty only in theory. In practice, in the real world that we live in, I would support a moratorium or flat out ban and personally I think it's only a matter of time before we as a country go that way.


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Fort Campbell

 Ouze wrote:
 Mr. Burning wrote:
I would probably argue that using poison, gas or electricity to execute someone is cruel and unusual - but is seen as acceptable because it may have less detrimental effects on those responsible for administering the procedure. And may be less detrimental to those administering said procedures when something goes wrong.

Is the 8th amendment the one to cite for cruel and unusual punishment?


Yes.

I personally agree with the people who would go with firearms, for two reasons. The first is that if you use a shotgun, double ought, point blank at the base of someone's skull, I think there is virtually no chance that the person would not be instantly (and thus painlessly) killed, even in the hands of a less-talented executioner. Shotgun suicides are not invariably fatal. but I think that's because a variety of factors that would not be present here.

The second reason is a bit selfish, perhaps, but I also would prefer that the execution be as messy as possible. No pseudo-medical procedure here. You go in knowing damn well you're going to kill a guy, and if you aren't willing to see the gore and clean it up, then maybe you shouldn't be in the state-sanctioned murder business.


I support the death penalty only in theory. In practice, in the real world that we live in, I would support a moratorium or flat out ban and personally I think it's only a matter of time before we as a country go that way.



I think I'm with you on both accounts. I don't think finding someone to handle the job of executioner would be that hard. There is no shortage of people who are capable of taking life, and I'm not talking in a murdering sense. Justifiable taking of life. If there weren't, well we wouldn't be a very functional military.

And yes, I fully support the death penalty as an acceptable means of punishment. It is one though that there should be zero margin of error for. Some cases that is easy to get. I think most though, it isn't.

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The whole reason we use lethal injection is to be as humane as possible.

A shotgun execution would never fly, even though, functionally, it probably is pretty humane, it is extremely messy. And messy *looks* cruel.

A closed bolt or pneumatic execution device would accomplish the same ends in a much more controlled way. Likewise, CO2 in a sealed chamber would also work. These are generally accepted as humane for animals.

With all executions, generally the administration of some sedative is called for to eliminate pre-execution stress.

That being said, I personally disagree that such measures are necessary- if someone has committed an act so heinous that death is the punishment, any manner of execution reasonable calculated to end their life without excessive suffering should do. Hanging, gunshot, etc. should all work. The fact that they may feel fear, pain, or suffer as a consequence is tragic, but it is punishment proportional to the crime.

I understand opposition to the death penalty on moral grounds, but do not understand opposition to "giving the State such power". What do you think the "State" is? In the US it is elected officials bound by state and national law, including voter elections and recalls. And how does opposing giving the State authority to execute on a state by state or national basis not contradict with it having the power to make war?

Practically, nationwide there is pretty close to a moratorium on executions anyway. The average delay is about 17 years. More people die of natural causes awaiting execution than execution. Potentially the reason why it isn't that effective of a deterrent- not because it isn't inherently so, but because there is so much systemic delay.

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