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Have you used the formation "Infernal Tetrad"? Do you have any suggestions as to how to use it, or improve it?
I'll share my experiences with it, and would like to know yours either fighting it or using it.

Edit :
I've updated all the of data learned from myself and others here.

Remember, a 6 on the stomp table isn't D, it just removes the models from play. I know you said a SS stomped two princes in one fight, but uh, how? The way the stomps have to be placed, even if you get three, makes it very hard to hit multiple large models, especially if the princes aren't B2B, which they really shouldn't be.

If fateweaver can force an opponent's roll in his turn( to make him re-roll 6 of D weaponary), I would go with it but sadly it doesn't...

 Swampmist wrote:
Remember, a 6 on the stomp table isn't D, it just removes the models from play. I know you said a SS stomped two princes in one fight, but uh, how? The way the stomps have to be placed, even if you get three, makes it very hard to hit multiple large models, especially if the princes aren't B2B, which they really shouldn't be.

It was not in the same stomp. He rolled 3 stomps, the first stomp rolled a 6, the second a 2, then the third a 6. The princes were spaced, but within 5" of each other, allowing him to walk the stomp over to touch the base of the second prince. The only way I see to prevent that would be to assault the other side of the stormsurge, but that's hard due to the way the board works.

The problem was also the double stormsurge. If it had been a single stormsurge, I think the princes could have overwhelmed it with attacks. Having two in a unit was to many wounds for the princes to deal with. He assaulted the princes with his stormsurges, ensuring he could do the most damage. Standing back to try and 'get the assault' was not an option -- as the surges move 12" as well. Standing back to try and 'get the assault off' would only accomplish in taking fire the entire game, as the princes are an assault unit.

That was why I mentioned the best plan is to just swoop in those instances. If you are going to be shrieking at stormsurges anyway, you might as well be hard to hit.

Interestingly enough, in that game his riptides were unable to really effectively hurt princes. They did not have the punch to really get past their greater rewards, shroud, and toughness. I think that a riptide wing army would be steamrolled by the tetrad.

 buo-ong wrote:
If fateweaver can force an opponent's roll in his turn( to make him re-roll 6 of D weaponary), I would go with it but sadly it doesn't...

Agreed. Fatey is still awesome for what he brings through. 300 points for a ton of psychic powers, including two rolls on the daemonology table. He also knows all 6 of the new powers, some of which are extremely good -- like the D shot power.

I will hopefully be trying this out tonight at my LGS. I'll be adding Belakor and some pink horrors for WC. I feel like Belakor "fits" the Tetrad better than Fateweaver. Not only does he come with Shrouding that can help the Princes greatly, but he is THE Daemon Prince.
Don't you want The DP in a list of DPs?

I also feel like pointing out a few downsides to Fateweaver.
1) Without an ideal Grimiore carrier or target, FW is less appealing.
2) In a list in which you need powers to enhance the Princes, bringing a character who needs more WC than he brings to be effective is actually a drain on making your Princes effective.
3) FW wants to be WL for the Warp Storm re-roll, but making him WL denies you one of the coolest benefits of the Tetrad.
Don't get me wrong, FW is great in any other list that has more bodies to support, but in a Tetrad list, you force yourself to make hard tactical decisions. Belakor is good in CC, doesn't want to be WL and doesn't have to always cast, but when he does, it helps the Princes instead of taking away from them.

@ Labmouse42: I agreed with the overall tactics and 100% support 2x Greater rewards on every DP.

--

Galef, can you post your experiences from your game tonight?

I'd like to get your experiences and see what can be done to make the Infernal Tetrad more effective.

 labmouse42 wrote:
Galef, can you post your experiences from your game tonight?

I'd like to get your experiences and see what can be done to make the Infernal Tetrad more effective.

As long as I get a game in tonight, I'll post a brief Bat Rep.

I just went to a tournament using the Tetrad, Belakor, and a chaos knight. I did fairly well for my first time playing a flying circus style list.

I did decide to probably switch out Belakor for a lord of change to have more points for buying upgrades. My princes were pretty minimal with 1 psyker level each (except khorne of course) and no greater rewards. They were still quite durable though, by flying for the first couple turns to whittle down some shooting I didn't have a lot of threats that could kill me anyways (except for a war convocation player that had lots of shots hitting on 5's rerolling).

I liked the khorne axe for having some potential strength D since I went against a lot of units that were tough to get through otherwise (superheavies, reanimation protocols, FNP, etc). I will probably switch out the soulstealer sword on my slaanesh one for the lash, too.

Belakor did some great work for me (including taking down a giant squiggoth almost singlehandedly) but I never cast invisibility so that's part of why I'm switching him out. He's also just very expensive and hard to justify unless I do land him and have him fighting through opponents. I decided the lord of change and tzeentch prince with +2 str would be just as effective at taking down vehicles and gargantuan creatures though.

 Galef wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
Galef, can you post your experiences from your game tonight?

I'd like to get your experiences and see what can be done to make the Infernal Tetrad more effective.

As long as I get a game in tonight, I'll post a brief Bat Rep.

Oh man, people are going to have some serious choices with their opponents tonight aren't they? I have a tetrad/tallyband in my trunk right now!
Tallyband is 6 min nurglings, 1 PB sqaud with Bell herald at ML2 for some extra dice. Going to throw it all at summoning. filled the rest of my case with stuff to summon. Figure if I get some good psychic rolls on my DPs, I might chuck some dice at malediction. Heck, Herald might summon pinkies that might turn into a D thirster, you never know.

Lets just not face each other. Tetrad vs Tetrad will make for a crappy bat rep.

 gwarsh41 wrote:

Lets just not face each other. Tetrad vs Tetrad will make for a crappy bat rep.

Agreed.

gwarsh41, would you also be able to post your thoughts after trying the tetrad with the tallybrand?

Are you bringing the bell of -1 LD?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lessthanjeff wrote:
I just went to a tournament using the Tetrad, Belakor, and a chaos knight. I did fairly well for my first time playing a flying circus style list.

Thanks for the input!

 labmouse42 wrote:
gwarsh41, would you also be able to post your thoughts after trying the tetrad with the tallybrand?

Are you bringing the bell of -1 LD?

Yes, The bell seems like a must with the tallyband. Using nurglings to deny overwatch, and forcing that leadership to reduce S and T could be very useful. Also for the chance I face someone that isn't fearless or marines. Keeping furies AUX in reserves so they don't give first blood. The corruption seems like it could be pretty nice with the princes running up the field, tapping objectives as they go.

Also, Bell+Shriek (or most of the telepathy table for that matter) OP

 Swampmist wrote:
Also, Bell+Shriek (or most of the telepathy table for that matter) OP

Oh snap! I didn't even think about that! I planned to give shriek to Slaanesh and Tzeentch DP. Nurgle will be Jinking all the time most likely. Tzeentch will have a ++3, so no need.

 labmouse42 wrote:

Khorne Prince
The Armor of Scorn seems to be the default upgrade here. Given that warp armor is a 20 point upgrade, 10 more points for +1 toughness and Adamantium Will is a great upgrade. For gifts, I like to give him the Axe of Khorne, and in most games I'll trade a major reward for the Blade of Blood -- which gives Rampage as well as another specialist weapon. This increases the Khorne Princes attacks to most targets to 7+d3 when charging -- all at STR 7.
* Note * ITC FAQ states that to get rampage from the blade of blood, you need to use it -- which lowers the init of the prince.
I've had more than one opponent just start referring to the Khorne Prince as a bloodthirster, which is an apt title.

MC's not affected by Unwieldy. He will still strike at regular Init.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 labmouse42 wrote:


D Blues
Stomps have killed my princes more than anything else in every game I've played. If you have some suggestions as to prevent a 250+ model from getting one shotted, I'm all ears!

If you are playing against a Knight army, consider rolling on the Escalation Warlord Traits table. There is one result that reduces a 6 on the D and Stomp table to a 5 (or something like that). However, if it is is just a single GMC/SH (like a WK), I'd just go with the Daemon Warlord Traits.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
For Tzeentch, I like to equip him with the Impossible Robes as well. Then with Warlord Traits or Cursed Earth, you can easily make him a re-rollable 2++ without needing the Grimoire, which you can then use on another unit.

On top of that, if you get the Re-roll Inv or 4+ FNP greater gifts, he becomes near unkillable.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, btw, one more way for you to potentially get +1 Inv (or +1W) is with the Fighter Ace upgrade.

 jy2 wrote:

If you are playing against a Knight army, consider rolling on the Escalation Warlord Traits table. There is one result that reduces a 6 on the D and Stomp table to a 5 (or something like that). However, if it is is just a single GMC/SH (like a WK), I'd just go with the Daemon Warlord Traits.

Those are not available in regular games.

In the Escalation supplement. What it says basically is if your opponent takes a Super-heavy/Gargant, then you can opt to roll on the Escalation WL table as well.

2 of my opponents at the LVO actually did that when playing against my Chaos Knight and actually got that (though one of my opponents did so illegaly but we didn't know it at the time).

I'm pretty sure that the escalation warlord table is only usable in escalation missions ala the Escalation FAQ

All of these supplements - Escalation, Death From the Skies, Stronghold Assault - are legal in regular 40K unless the tourney FAQ expressly forbids them. They are definitely legal in the ITC system unless explicilty forbidden by the ITC. The ITC was even doing the +1VP/3HP or Wounds that you take off from a SH/GC from the Escalation supplement (this was before the most recent ITC changes).

But in a casual game, I suppose it will be up to the players. Then again, you can always refuse to play against your opponent if he brought a SH/GC and you didn't.

 jy2 wrote:
All of these supplements - Escalation, Death From the Skies, Stronghold Assault - are legal in regular 40K unless the tourney FAQ expressly forbids them. They are definitely legal in the ITC system unless explicilty forbidden by the ITC. The ITC was even doing the +1VP/3HP or Wounds that you take off from a SH/GC from the Escalation supplement (this was before the most recent ITC changes).

Yeah but the Escalation FAQ makes it clear that the rules in it are only used when playing escalation missions (not just in regular 40k) so ITC is specifically adding +1VP/3HP to their tournament packet and because it wouldn't be in place otherwise.

 jy2 wrote:
In the Escalation supplement. What it says basically is if your opponent takes a Super-heavy/Gargant, then you can opt to roll on the Escalation WL table as well.

2 of my opponents at the LVO actually did that when playing against my Chaos Knight and actually got that (though one of my opponents did so illegaly but we didn't know it at the time).

Well, they were mistaken, or your tournament was using house rules.

The FAQ/Errata clearly establishes when those Warlord traits are allowed.

"Furthermore, if you are playing an Altar of War: Escalation
or Gauntlet Challenge mission and your opponent has
a Lords of War unit as part of their army, your Warlord
can choose to roll on the Escalation Warlord Traits
table shown right instead of one of the Warlord Traits
normally available to your Warlord.’"

 jy2 wrote:
MC's not affected by Unwieldy. He will still strike at regular Init.

Thank you for the catch. I have made the correction.

 jy2 wrote:
If you are playing against a Knight army, consider rolling on the Escalation Warlord Traits table. There is one result that reduces a 6 on the D and Stomp table to a 5 (or something like that). However, if it is is just a single GMC/SH (like a WK), I'd just go with the Daemon Warlord Traits.

That is something to consider. It means losing one of the best perks of the formation, as the shared warlord trait is pretty awesome. In my last two games I had +1 spell levels to each prince, which made for fun when the khorne prince was casting 'boom of flame'

Oddly enough, I think that the princes, properly buffed will likely do better against knights. I need to run the numbers on this, but in most of my games at least one prince, sometimes two got fleshbane/armorbane. What makes the GC's so tough are the high number of wounds, invuln saves and FNP.

Does anybody tried book or grimore with infernal tetrad?
Do they need it actually?

 buo-ong wrote:
Does anybody tried book or grimore with infernal tetrad?
Do they need it actually?

When I was playing last weekend, I did not find any need for it.
I was casting 'cursed earth' pretty regularly, which brought the tzeentch prince down to a 2++ and the rest of the princes down to a 4++
I was using Be'lakor to give shrounding to my Tzeentch, Khorne, and Slaanesh prince, so everyone was jinking on a 2+.

The other issue is that the grimoire means you cannot take another hellforged artifact. It also eats up a greater reward slot, and greater rewards really push the princes to the next level.
Being able to take 2 greaters and a hellforged from the wulfen book is a nice boost to DP's power.

I ended up facing off against a CSM/Daemons army.
CSM was ariham_cypher, 20 cultists and 10 cultists.
Daemons was a KoS and 3 flying slaanesh princes

Not exactly the match up i was looking for, as its pretty dang close to what I had.

I got the -1ws/bs warlord trait, it was pretty useful. Now, say its DP on DP, do I hit them on 3s? We played it where I don't, as I didn't think I would count them as -1 for the sake of me hitting them back only -1 for the sake of them hitting me. It still helped out a bit here and there.

I had tetrad+tallyband. Herald ML2 with bell. He got cursed earth and possession. My daemon princes got very few buffs. Tzeentch got cursed earth, which was awesome, nugle got incursion, just about everything else was witchfire. He had so many more dice than me that no witchfires of note were cast.

Turn 1 the herald turned into a D thirster, I brought one along just in case, I've never fielded it, and I wanted to put it on the table. Plus I needed some vector striking to try to bring those suckers down, as all his DP were flying. Tzeentch got off cursed earth and that was it.

His turn, just about everything tried to kill my Khorn DP, as he was the only one on the ground without a +2 of some sort. So like, 5 psychic shrieks and 4 lashes of slaanesh did 1 or 2 wounds (go FnP!). Adamantium will helped me deny 3 of the shrieks, my opponent threw lots of dice at invisibility for his giant warlord cultist blob.

Khorn DP charged KoS Thanks to warp storm and cursed earth, everyone had a ++3, all but I think my slaanesh prince and one of his. The bloothirster and tzeentch DP vector striked a prince and grouned it, nurgle charged it and killed it with balesword.

Oh yeah - Balesword / corruption. Major flub on my part. Corruption is a CC weapon. I learned this before the game started, so corruption/balesword combo isn't all that great. You will EITHER auto wound or instant death, not both, unless I am reading it wrong.

Slaaanesh prince vecrot struck and lashed his prince and did 2 wounds, bringing it to 1. KoS vs Khorn, I think I did 2 wounds, we were both feeling the pain. Nurgle prince also summoned some plague drones that assault moved to corrupt an objective, giving me 5/6.

I think at this point my opponent called it. I had scored first blood, putting me up 4-0. I had 5/6 objectives on the table and we were playing the maelstorm mission where you generate based on the objectives you have. He had 1, which he lost the next turn.

We played it out for the next few turns, just to see what would happen. All my DP landed. his blob charged the Khorne DP, glorious intervention invisible cypher did a wound, the khorn DP did a wound, they did hit and run. I then corrupted the objective they had been next to. Thirster ended up being charged by the blob I think, had 2 wounds, died before he could swing. Tzeentch and nurgle DP charged, nurglings did first, so no overwatch, they failed leadership on 11, so -1S and T for luls. Tzeentch called challenge, rolled 222225, killed the cultist champ, explosion killed 5 more, so it worke d out in the end. Nurgle dude killed 5 as well, cypher, ariham, and like, 10 cultists did 3 wounds to nurglings, who did 7 in return. I won combat, they ran and escaped, we shook hands.



It was definitely not the match up I was looking for. all but 2 or 3 of my powers were useless, just because he was able to throw twice my dice to deny, Then any invulnerable save manipulation I did would boost him too, so late in the game I just gave up. My Tzeentch DP would have been much better off fighting the KoS, but needed a 10" turn 2 charge, where it was a 6 for the khorne one, and I needed to slay an MC. I was bummed at the lack of CC I saw.

Ditching corruption seems like a plan, talking with Galef, there are only a very few enemies you will need it, and not combining with balesword is a big drop in power. Lesser reward on Khorne, I didn't bring one, but I think I should have. If I did, the KoS would have been dead turn 2, and that would have changed the game up a lot. I can grab it with the points from corruption.

Worst thing was the Nurgle DP rolling +3 armor and the S8 lance for his rewards.Also ended up with life leech, incursion and enfeeble. I really wanted something to boost his toughness. In the end it was standard daemon princes fighting better daemon princes with some cultists and loads of extra dice sitting on the side. I still would like to see how it does against a less mirrored army.

Thanks for the post. I'll run it this Friday and let you know if I get any different results.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/684767.page#8540413

Battle Report as promised. Just like gwarsh41, most of my powers were crap, which was sad because I had the 3+ to cast WL trait. Biggest disappointment was loosing my Tz Prince due to a failed LD check. Otherwise I would have obliterated my opponent

 Galef wrote:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/684767.page#8540413

Battle Report as promised. Just like gwarsh41, most of my powers were crap, which was sad because I had the 3+ to cast WL trait. Biggest disappointment was loosing my Tz Prince due to a failed LD check. Otherwise I would have obliterated my opponent

I'd like to pick your thoughts on some of your choices.

1) Why did you not grab summoning instead of 'dark flame' on your Tzeench prince? Were you just diving for cursed earth? You said your powers were crap, but when your harnessing on a 3+, 5 dice and reliably get your that summons.

2) Was there a reason you went for the greater eitherblade over the Blade of Blood? Was there a T4 target you needed to instakill?

3) Warpspeed and Endurance are pretty boss on your slaanesh prince. I don't see those as useless powers. +3 attacks is gross.

4) Grabbing the plague flail with the balesword would have given +1 attack for dual specialist weapons, in addition to giving the options of a STR 8 hit. The powers were pretty limp on him.

5) Why did you not grab psychic scream on each prince? It's a very good attack that is cheap to grab, and works great on gaunts etc.... Given that it's only 1 warp dice to throw, I'm just curious as to your thought process.

6) Did you feel that swooping turn one with 3 of the DPs did much good? I've been thinking more and more about I just want to keep them gliding when shrouding is being handed out. Were you worried about nid shooting? I ask this because on turn 2 you landed 2 princes to prepare for charging. You could have been doing the charging instead of preparing. For each prince that started swooping, it was one less turn of beating face -- which from reading what you posted was where you did a lot of your damage.

7) I saw you ID'ed with the Axe of Khorne. Pretty sweet. That had to hurt.

8) That sucks about the robes. I'm sure the FNP would have helped, but that is a risk of playing with the robes -- one bad round of bad luck will ruin your day.

1) I had already rolled Incursion, so since he had lots of gaunts and rippers, plus 1 Horror unit already had Summoning, I kept Dark Flame.

2) All the targets I wanted the K prince to go after were other MC's, so I would not have gotten Rampage. I only chose the 'magic weapon' because I rolled the 3+ armour reward (lame). The +1 str Master Craft really added to the +1str, reroll 1s from the formation. I was str8 on the turns after I charged the Zoans, rerolling all 1's and one 2 from the Master Craft.

3) I never had the dice to cast Warpspeed, but I did cast Endurance a few times. twice on the K Prince, once on the S princess. I didn't put that in the bat-rep because it didn't really impact the game.

4) Yeah this was my mistake. In my list, I actually had a lesser reward, but I forgot to roll it. I have been playing Daemons for years, but have never had a list with SOOOO much random rolling. Usually 1 LOC and 2 horror unit is the most I run.

5) My plan was to do that, but I didn't get the powers I wanted from Biomancy, so I had to keep fishing. Plus I wasn't going to waste a Shreik on gaunts and the other units in his army were LD10. I have had really bad experiences with Shreik, usually never rolling higher than the targets LD.

6) I felt that the K & N Princes were enough. The Swooping MCs flew over them to be more priority targets. And yes, Nid shooting is gross. He had over 30 shots per Devilgaunt unit. I was also waiting for his Mawlocs to come in since they cannot hit Swopping MCs. If all his army was on the board, Yes I would have just Glided up.

--

Formation is reroll to hits, no? Not reroll 1's?