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Alright so adepticon is a little over one week away. I have been thinking of the best way to handle all of the deathstars and GMC that will be at the event... to include multiple wraithknights in one army with unnerfed range D... After a few months of contemplating i have finally settled on a list... the best way to kill a wraithknight is with another wraithknight. So even though i will die a little inside throughout each game of the event here is my eldar list.

Skyrunner farseer

3 windrider jetbike
3 windrider jetbike

4 warp spiders with exarch

Lynx with holofield

Wraithknight with scatter laser and d cannons

Cad 2:
Skyrunner farseer

3 scat bikes
3 scat bikes
3 scat bikes + warlock

Wraithknight with d cannons and scatter laser

Inquisition detachment:
Coteaz

2 acolyte 1 psyker
3 acolyte

Fortification: void shield generator with 3 shields

The basic strategy is go first and essentially play to table every opponent until im dead inside. Hopefully adepticon steps away from the free for all army building format and brings it back some for the sake of armies that dont have gmc and/or deathstars. If your not daemons, eldar, or space wolves then dont expect to make the top 10 in this event... it sucks but its the nature of the beast.


Thoughts on the list? Ill add a poll later for peoples predictions. If you dont have a deathstar or a gmc then i will apologize for our game and buy you a beer. My list is built to combat those top builds.

I used to go to adepticon all the time. I was in the first 3-4 years. Won the Gladiator, won the Team Tourney, then I got a new job that I couldn't get the time off at the end of March/beginning of April to go anymore.

Last year I was able to get 2 days off for the first time in years and went to the Team tourney. I had fun and saw a lot of old friends for the first time in years. I talked to my wife about that experience and about how much fund I had.

This year my wife surprised me at Christmas with an Adepticon badge and I even got the whole week off. First time in 11 years I signed up to play in the 40k championships.

Now I see this list and what it can do and I do not want to go. I don't know what I'll do. I should have listened to Brian and signed up for the Friendly instead.

You are killing me Brett.

So either you go against a list with as much firepower as yours and it comes down to who goes first.

Or you play against a 15 transport/15 unit list and you see if you can kill him in 4 turns while he slow plays you.

Of course you will get 2-3 games in between where you table your opponent because they didn't bring a contending list.

pretty much sums up GTs for 2016

DarthDiggler wrote:
I used to go to adepticon all the time. I was in the first 3-4 years. Won the Gladiator, won the Team Tourney, then I got a new job that I couldn't get the time off at the end of March/beginning of April to go anymore.

Last year I was able to get 2 days off for the first time in years and went to the Team tourney. I had fun and saw a lot of old friends for the first time in years. I talked to my wife about that experience and about how much fund I had.

This year my wife surprised me at Christmas with an Adepticon badge and I even got the whole week off. First time in 11 years I signed up to play in the 40k championships.

Now I see this list and what it can do and I do not want to go. I don't know what I'll do. I should have listened to Brian and signed up for the Friendly instead.

You are killing me Brett.

The sad part is i will be one of possibly 100+ dual WK players... If there was a better way to kill off Wk's without getting hard countered by tau then i would run it... as it stands the weakness to eldar is alpha drop pods... the weakness to alpha drop pods is intercepting tau... the weakness to tau is Eldar... its a vicious cycle with those 3 armies... then deathstars come into play and actually fair well against nearly all of them.

Dont be surprised to see an invisible(manifest on 2+) wolf star that has fnp hit and run re-rollable 2+ cover saves and moves 15 inches for movement and charges... That is what i lost too last year... also faced a 3 IK lance formation when they got re-rolls which were supported by a lynx on a sky shield... it was 4 SH vehicles in a killpoint mission... i was decurion necrons... lol. Had they allowed my renegades I would of played them and said damn the super units....

You're a dirty man! haha

List is strong, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it gross.

DarthDiggler wrote:
I used to go to adepticon all the time. I was in the first 3-4 years. Won the Gladiator, won the Team Tourney, then I got a new job that I couldn't get the time off at the end of March/beginning of April to go anymore.

Last year I was able to get 2 days off for the first time in years and went to the Team tourney. I had fun and saw a lot of old friends for the first time in years. I talked to my wife about that experience and about how much fund I had.

This year my wife surprised me at Christmas with an Adepticon badge and I even got the whole week off. First time in 11 years I signed up to play in the 40k championships.

Now I see this list and what it can do and I do not want to go. I don't know what I'll do. I should have listened to Brian and signed up for the Friendly instead.

You are killing me Brett.

Start 30k for the future of gaming in the grim dark.

 jy2 wrote:
List is strong, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it gross.

I already told him he's going to wish he had more bikes and fewer WKs.

People are getting all caught up in the construction rules without taking the missions into account. 4 3-man units of bikes won't last very long when you're sacrificing a unit or two each turn by throwing them into the scoring zones to make sure you don't get so far behind a Battle Company that you can't come back regardless of what your WKs kill.

DJ3 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
List is strong, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it gross.

I already told him he's going to wish he had more bikes and fewer WKs.

People are getting all caught up in the construction rules without taking the missions into account. 4 3-man units of bikes won't last very long when you're sacrificing a unit or two each turn by throwing them into the scoring zones to make sure you don't get so far behind a Battle Company that you can't come back regardless of what your WKs kill.

I tend to agree with this. The Adepticon missions heavily favor MSU ObSec armies (i.e. battle company) or armies with resilient ObSec (i.e. units that are large or easy to hide and have access to shrouding/stealth). A smart player can run up the score on progressive against an army like TK's and play to survive. Tabling is only worth 5 VPs and with differential scoring, you need to table fast or it might not matter. Its not hard for an army to kill 12 jet bikes when you focus on them and if TK hides them in reserve, he risks running behind on the progressives.

DJ3 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
List is strong, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it gross.

I already told him he's going to wish he had more bikes and fewer WKs.

People are getting all caught up in the construction rules without taking the missions into account. 4 3-man units of bikes won't last very long when you're sacrificing a unit or two each turn by throwing them into the scoring zones to make sure you don't get so far behind a Battle Company that you can't come back regardless of what your WKs kill.

Adepticon doesnt require you to play both missions. You accumulate points from either mission provided. Mission two is kill points plus objectives. Ide let the battle company rush for their objectives as i get 2kp per kill.

Wouldn't something like this be able to cause some trouble?:

Fateweaver
LoC, ML3, IR, LR, GR
11 Pink Horrors
3 Nurglings
7 Screamers
DPoT, ML3, WA/DF, LR, ER
Be'lakor
10 Cultists
Heldrake
1849, 15 ML

The amount of flying targets might prove problematic. And Fateweavers S: D Psypower and multiple Psychic Shrieks vs Wraithknights, etc. makes for a fairly threatening damageoutput.

Coteaz to prevent possible initiativestealing is a wise idea I think. Against a lot of top-lists going first may prove to be paramount.

I post this mainly because I'm interested in hearing about your strategy against a similar Chaos list.

Good luck at Adepticon!

Cilithan

PanzerLeader wrote:

DJ3 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
List is strong, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it gross.

I already told him he's going to wish he had more bikes and fewer WKs.

People are getting all caught up in the construction rules without taking the missions into account. 4 3-man units of bikes won't last very long when you're sacrificing a unit or two each turn by throwing them into the scoring zones to make sure you don't get so far behind a Battle Company that you can't come back regardless of what your WKs kill.

I tend to agree with this. The Adepticon missions heavily favor MSU ObSec armies (i.e. battle company) or armies with resilient ObSec (i.e. units that are large or easy to hide and have access to shrouding/stealth). A smart player can run up the score on progressive against an army like TK's and play to survive. Tabling is only worth 5 VPs and with differential scoring, you need to table fast or it might not matter. Its not hard for an army to kill 12 jet bikes when you focus on them and if TK hides them in reserve, he risks running behind on the progressives.

agreed, no way this army, or any army constructed similarly (and there will be lots of dual WK + d lists) is going to win. This is a mean list, but lacks any sort of balance. I think it'd be much better with no Lynx, Warp Hunters and more troops, but that is just, like, my opinion man....

MSU of some sort or a deathstar list takes Adepticon.

 Cilithan wrote:
Wouldn't something like this be able to cause some trouble?:

Fateweaver
LoC, ML3, IR, LR, GR
11 Pink Horrors
3 Nurglings
7 Screamers
DPoT, ML3, WA/DF, LR, ER
Be'lakor
10 Cultists
Heldrake
1849, 15 ML

The amount of flying targets might prove problematic. And Fateweavers S: D Psypower and multiple Psychic Shrieks vs Wraithknights, etc. makes for a fairly threatening damageoutput.

Coteaz to prevent possible initiativestealing is a wise idea I think. Against a lot of top-lists going first may prove to be paramount.

I post this mainly because I'm interested in hearing about your strategy against a similar Chaos list.

Good luck at Adepticon!

Cilithan

If you can hide them well on turn one then you might be okay... if i see them on turn one you are losing a few of those MC's. It only takes one 6 on the d chart and they get no save. Im not too worried about shooting at air targets. I can twin link the D weapons on the wraithknights and the lynx already comes twin linked. My biggest concern would be the heldrake for the purposes of keeping my troops alive. I would have to put my farseers together to protect some of the troops. As for psychic shriek my army can run up to 5 of its own psychic shrieks. Every psyker in my army can take telepathy and may do so in most of my games.

Your list is a spoiler; you'll 'ruin' someone else's bid at making the second day (which cuts to 16, so for 130+ players, the champs is, essentially, a one-day tournament).

I agree that, in Mission Two, the Kill Points have a better risk/reward ratio. I lost an AdeptiCon prep game (mirror match Eldar on Eldar, but his 2 Wraith Knights vs. my lots of jet bikes) because my opponent kept the Objective Zone scoring tied up and had an easier time picking up KPs. Final differential was +8 for him, so 23-7; it was a close game.

Overall, though, the draft missions do favor ObSec-heavy lists. If the missions get played in the same order, then having Round 2 be the kill point round should help thin out the number of Battle Companies in contention for Day Two.

Cheers!

What allows for the 2 LoW in CAD #1?

Lynx is a Heavy support now IIRC

 Byte wrote:
What allows for the 2 LoW in CAD #1?

The Lynx is no longer a SH. In the Mymaera book, it is now a Heavy Support choice.

Mouth-watering list, wish I could fly over for Adepticon

Nah, it's a good army but not unbeatable. I whupped one like it (only one Wraithknight due to ITC restrictions) with my mostly fluffy Space Marines recently. The lack of durability is a huge a problem, as some bad saves or a bad mission can leave the weaker elements out to dry.

Because it's such a small army you're rolling a relatively small number of dice which makes it easier for the rolls to swing the game one way or the other. In a tournament you're really gambling for the dice or the alpha strike to not betray for five or six games, so it's difficult to win every game.

 Tomb King wrote:

DJ3 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
List is strong, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it gross.

I already told him he's going to wish he had more bikes and fewer WKs.

People are getting all caught up in the construction rules without taking the missions into account. 4 3-man units of bikes won't last very long when you're sacrificing a unit or two each turn by throwing them into the scoring zones to make sure you don't get so far behind a Battle Company that you can't come back regardless of what your WKs kill.

Adepticon doesnt require you to play both missions. You accumulate points from either mission provided. Mission two is kill points plus objectives. Ide let the battle company rush for their objectives as i get 2kp per kill.

Everyone knows battle companies are screwed in that mission, but there's two others plus one we haven't seen yet that will likely follow the same general concept though. Neglecting the progressives because you have to protect your bikes can absolutely put you in a position to lose regardless of what the endgame looks like.

I don't think the lynx is worth its points tbh, warp hunter is superior and more points efficient. Then you could fit in more scatbikes

I have been contemplating making the following changes:
Drop 6 warp spiders
Drop one acolyte squad with psyker

This would make the following units
+ 3 scat bike squad with warlock
+ 3 regular acolytes to replace psyker squad dropped

This can give a bike squad more survivability and adds an additional scoring unit. Also i could use renew to heal the big guys. Thoughts?

 Tomb King wrote:
I have been contemplating making the following changes:
Drop 6 warp spiders
Drop one acolyte squad with psyker

This would make the following units
+ 3 scat bike squad with warlock
+ 3 regular acolytes to replace psyker squad dropped

This can give a bike squad more survivability and adds an additional scoring unit. Also i could use renew to heal the big guys. Thoughts?

So here is what I would do given the list you've built around:

CAD #1
Skyrunner Farseer
5x Scatbikes
4x Scatbikes
4 Spiders + Exarch
WK w/scatterlaser, d-cannons

CAD #2
Skyrunner Farseer
4x Scatbikes
4x Scatbikes
4 Spiders + Exarch
WK w/scatterlaser, d-cannons

Scalpel Squadron
2x5 Wracks, Venoms with double splinter cannons

Inquisition Detachment
Coteaz

You add a little more survivability to your troops and give your list a null-deploy option while keeping the seize protection. You lose one "D" shot but add a lot of flexibility while keeping the core of your list intact.

I like the changes, as the Warlock is a good add and more disposable units makes it a bit easier to nab objectives and act as roadblocks.

Personally, I think if you're going to rely on forcing the enemy to attack hard targets you should take as many hard targets as possible, and then fill out the list with the bare minimum of fast, cheap things to seize objectives. Right now you only have the two Wraithknights and kind of sort of the Lynx for hard to kill things; if you could find a way to fit a Seer Council in there it might stretch your enemies' killing power past the breaking point.

Are you wed to the idea of two Wraithknights? It might be a better idea to switch to a single Wraithknight so you only need one CAD, and then you can afford to take a Seer Council or a Warp Hunter formation or some Wraithguard or what have you..

Alternatively you could try a the Jetbike Guardian formation with a Seer Council on jetbikes and two Wraithknights, plus whatever else you can afford to support the Seer Council on the attack. That would be a more flexible army with better ability to project combat power up the board and dictate where the fight happens, and when. Too often I find that the armies built around super guns and tricks end up letting the enemy dictate the tempo to them, relying too much on sheer dice power and not enough on controlling space.

PanzerLeader wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:
I have been contemplating making the following changes:
Drop 6 warp spiders
Drop one acolyte squad with psyker

This would make the following units
+ 3 scat bike squad with warlock
+ 3 regular acolytes to replace psyker squad dropped

This can give a bike squad more survivability and adds an additional scoring unit. Also i could use renew to heal the big guys. Thoughts?

So here is what I would do given the list you've built around:

CAD #1
Skyrunner Farseer
5x Scatbikes
4x Scatbikes
4 Spiders + Exarch
WK w/scatterlaser, d-cannons

CAD #2
Skyrunner Farseer
4x Scatbikes
4x Scatbikes
4 Spiders + Exarch
WK w/scatterlaser, d-cannons

Scalpel Squadron
2x5 Wracks, Venoms with double splinter cannons

Inquisition Detachment
Coteaz

You add a little more survivability to your troops and give your list a null-deploy option while keeping the seize protection. You lose one "D" shot but add a lot of flexibility while keeping the core of your list intact.

The lynx is actually 3 twin linked d shots or more importantly a large blast d weapon.
The list looks nice but the vsg is gone and i think that helps protect me from grav weapons. Also i only have 9 scat bikes, 9 shuriken cannon bikes, 6 regular bikes, 2 farseer bikes, and 1 warlock on bike.
Also i only have 2 raiders 10 warriors and an autarch for dark eldar.

Saber wrote:I like the changes, as the Warlock is a good add and more disposable units makes it a bit easier to nab objectives and act as roadblocks.

Personally, I think if you're going to rely on forcing the enemy to attack hard targets you should take as many hard targets as possible, and then fill out the list with the bare minimum of fast, cheap things to seize objectives. Right now you only have the two Wraithknights and kind of sort of the Lynx for hard to kill things; if you could find a way to fit a Seer Council in there it might stretch your enemies' killing power past the breaking point.

Are you wed to the idea of two Wraithknights? It might be a better idea to switch to a single Wraithknight so you only need one CAD, and then you can afford to take a Seer Council or a Warp Hunter formation or some Wraithguard or what have you..

Alternatively you could try a the Jetbike Guardian formation with a Seer Council on jetbikes and two Wraithknights, plus whatever else you can afford to support the Seer Council on the attack. That would be a more flexible army with better ability to project combat power up the board and dictate where the fight happens, and when. Too often I find that the armies built around super guns and tricks end up letting the enemy dictate the tempo to them, relying too much on sheer dice power and not enough on controlling space.

The biggest thing im after with the jetbikes is mobile obsec. If i run the formations then i lose that. I really like the warlock for his psychic table and he makes a squad better if i decide to go for fortune as he can tank wounds for the squad.

I think its funny people believe im going to bolo with this list. May the report illuminate the nonbelievers. People have always underplayed my abilities with an army as well. Should be interesting.

@thread do you want a picture bat report or the youtube quick clip video batrep that i have done in the past. Pick your poison.

@TK: Yeah, if you don't have the models for the Scalpel Squadron keep the VSG. With the Scalpel Squadron you negate the need for the VSG in my mind as you can force your opponent to deploy first (including declaring which pods will be arriving first turn) and then counter deploy accordingly. I'm personally not sold on the Lynx at its current price point with the loss of super heavy but your mileage may vary. I don't like that it doesn't negate cover outside of the "6" result.

PanzerLeader wrote:
@TK: Yeah, if you don't have the models for the Scalpel Squadron keep the VSG. With the Scalpel Squadron you negate the need for the VSG in my mind as you can force your opponent to deploy first (including declaring which pods will be arriving first turn) and then counter deploy accordingly. I'm personally not sold on the Lynx at its current price point with the loss of super heavy but your mileage may vary. I don't like that it doesn't negate cover outside of the "6" result.

So if you dont like the cost of the lynx then your probably wouldnt like the idea of running:
Star engines
Crystal targeting matrix

So if someone castled their army behind blos i can still hit them with a large blast. I would have a potential 36" move in one turn before firing at full bs.

 Tomb King wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:
@TK: Yeah, if you don't have the models for the Scalpel Squadron keep the VSG. With the Scalpel Squadron you negate the need for the VSG in my mind as you can force your opponent to deploy first (including declaring which pods will be arriving first turn) and then counter deploy accordingly. I'm personally not sold on the Lynx at its current price point with the loss of super heavy but your mileage may vary. I don't like that it doesn't negate cover outside of the "6" result.

So if you dont like the cost of the lynx then your probably wouldnt like the idea of running:
Star engines
Crystal targeting matrix

So if someone castled their army behind blos i can still hit them with a large blast. I would have a potential 36" move in one turn before firing at full bs.

Its a nice ability. But between the Lynx and the double wraith knights, you have about 1000 points invested in 3 models (one of which can be exploded outright). I'd pick two of them and then beef out the rest of the list. Those 300 points would give you some extra points and let you move the spiders into an aspect host for example.

I'm with Panzer on this Brett. And that's not because I don't think this list is a swift kick to the teeth about half the time (especially when it goes first, but also when you roll up some 6's turn 1) For me I'm more worried about how horribly you can be alpha struck running this list. What is your intent if you haven't already rolled to go first? Weather it out under the VSG?

GreyDragoon wrote:
I'm with Panzer on this Brett. And that's not because I don't think this list is a swift kick to the teeth about half the time (especially when it goes first, but also when you roll up some 6's turn 1) For me I'm more worried about how horribly you can be alpha struck running this list. What is your intent if you haven't already rolled to go first? Weather it out under the VSG?

The plan is to either null deploy all but wraithknights or bubble wrap the vsg to make them knock put the vsg before i take damage.