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Hey, Dakka.

For the Oathsworn Detatchments, the ones allowing us to Field Imperial Knights... Are we allowed to field 1, and just 1, Forgeworld Knight?

For Example, a Knight Atrapos has the rule that states: A Cerastus Knight-Atrapos may be chosen as part of a Codex: Imperial Knights army as you would other types of Knight. However, owing to their rarity in the 41st Millennium, you may not have more Cerastus Knight-Atrapos in your army than you have Knights of other kinds.

I feel like that ruling isn't exact enough, but I'm curious if that means in my War Convocation, I could not field 1 Atrapos unless I had 1 Regular Knight as well.

Can anyone help?

Cephalobeard wrote:
Hey, Dakka.

For the Oathsworn Detatchments, the ones allowing us to Field Imperial Knights... Are we allowed to field 1, and just 1, Forgeworld Knight?

For Example, a Knight Atrapos has the rule that states: A Cerastus Knight-Atrapos may be chosen as part of a Codex: Imperial Knights army as you would other types of Knight. However, owing to their rarity in the 41st Millennium, you may not have more Cerastus Knight-Atrapos in your army than you have Knights of other kinds.

I feel like that ruling isn't exact enough, but I'm curious if that means in my War Convocation, I could not field 1 Atrapos unless I had 1 Regular Knight as well.

Can anyone help?

It's pretty straightforward. Say you build a list that has just a single Atrapos...

How many Cerastus Knight-Atropos models do you have in your army? One.
How many Knights of other kinds do you have in your army? Zero.
Is one more than zero? Yes.
Is this a legal build? No, it violates the restriction that you may not have more Cerastus Knight-Atropos models in your army than you have Knights of other kinds.

You would need to take a second Oathsworn Detachment with a second type of Knight to make the Atropos a legal choice in the War Convocation.

I felt it was relatively straight forward, however I cannot find anything in agreement online.

Multiple locations, even the single old Dakka thread I found, imply it is allowable if they are your LoW, etc.

I'm not trying to argue, "Well the rules don't say I can't take one..."

I just want to be 100% certain before I drop $250 on one.

Cephalobeard wrote:
I felt it was relatively straight forward, however I cannot find anything in agreement online.

Multiple locations, even the single old Dakka thread I found, imply it is allowable if they are your LoW, etc.

I'm not trying to argue, "Well the rules don't say I can't take one..."

I just want to be 100% certain before I drop $250 on one.

I don't have the rules handy for the Atropos, but I think they're basically the same. You can double check this. Here are the rule for the Acheron.

"Using the Cerastus Knight-Acheron in your army in games of Warhammer 40,000

Codex: Imperial Knights: Cerastus Knight-Acherons may be chosen as part of a Codex: Imperial Knights army as you would other types of Knight. However, owing to their rarity in the 41st Millennium, you may not have more Cerastus Knight-Acherons in your army than you have Knights of other kinds.

Other Armies of the Imperium Factions: A Cerastus Knight-Acheron may be taken as a Lords of War choice for any faction that is a part of the Armies of the Imperium (see the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook)."

As you can see, the "rarity" restriction only exists if you're taking the Knight as part of a Codex: Imperial Knights army... i.e. as part of an Oathsworn Detachement. There is no such restriction if you're taking it as a Lords of War choice in an other Armies of the Imperium Faction Detachment. You can have a single Acheron/Atropos in your army with no other Knights present so long as it is chosen as a Lords of War choice in a NON-Imperial Knights Detachmnet... something like a Space Marines Combined Arms Detachment, for example. If you want to take it in an Oathsworn Detachment as part of, say, a War Convocation, then you'll need to have a second Knight in your army to fulfill the "rarity" requirement.

Terrific clarity.

Thank you, sir.

Can some one explain this to me? How is Jim or who ever allowed to run 5 Cerastus Knights?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/685193.page

Houserule it looks like.

If you have 5 different Cerastus Knights, it's legal.

" However, owing to their rarity in the 41st Millennium, you may not have more Cerastus Knight-Acherons in your army than you have Knights of other kinds."
" However, owing to their rarity in the 41st Millennium, you may not have more Cerastus Knight-Atrapos in your army than you have Knights of other kinds."
" However, owing to their rarity in the 41st Millennium, you may not have more Cerastus Knight-Castigators in your army than you have Knights of other kinds."
" However, owing to their rarity in the 41st Millennium, you may not have more Cerastus Knight-Lancers in your army than you have Knights of other kinds."

They are each a different Knight type, so you can easily double up once your have "other Knights"

 djdarknoise wrote:
If you have 5 different Cerastus Knights, it's legal.

" However, owing to their rarity in the 41st Millennium, you may not have more Cerastus Knight-Acherons in your army than you have Knights of other kinds."
" However, owing to their rarity in the 41st Millennium, you may not have more Cerastus Knight-Atrapos in your army than you have Knights of other kinds."
" However, owing to their rarity in the 41st Millennium, you may not have more Cerastus Knight-Castigators in your army than you have Knights of other kinds."
" However, owing to their rarity in the 41st Millennium, you may not have more Cerastus Knight-Lancers in your army than you have Knights of other kinds."

They are each a different Knight type, so you can easily double up once your have "other Knights"

You don't even need to have all of them be different. If you have 2x Acherons, an Atrapos and a Castigator, you've still obeyed all the restrictions. You don't have more Acherons than you do Knights of other kinds. 2 Acherons, 2 Knights of other kinds. 2 isn't more than 2. 3 Acherons, an Atrapos and a Castigator would be illegal because then you have 3 Acherons, which is more than the 2 Knights of other kinds.

my goodness, i am grossed out by the rules lawyering for taking 5 IKs.

Grief wrote:
my goodness, i am grossed out by the rules lawyering for taking 5 IKs.

How is this even remotely "rule lawyering"? Nobody is using any loopholes. It's not like someone is exploiting an unintentional loophole allowing them to take multiple Knights. There is a Codex: Imperial Knights that, shocker... allows you to take as many Imperial Knights as you have points for.

 "However, owing to their rarity in the 41st Millennium, you may not have more Cerastus Knight-Acherons in your army than you have Knights of other kinds." 
" However, owing to their rarity in the 41st Millennium, you may not have more Cerastus Knight-Atrapos in your army than you have Knights of other kinds." 

That is like having 5 of the same planes walker in mtg but legal due to sub heading/titles. Like Chandra Nalar, Chandra Ablaze, Chandra Pyromaster, Chandra of Keledesh, Chandra Roaring flames.

Lols i bet you if i tried this at my Community they would rules lawyer me so that it was rai that the number of Cerastus can never outnumbered the regular Knights.

Grief wrote:
 "However, owing to their rarity in the 41st Millennium, you may not have more Cerastus Knight-Acherons in your army than you have Knights of other kinds." 
" However, owing to their rarity in the 41st Millennium, you may not have more Cerastus Knight-Atrapos in your army than you have Knights of other kinds." 

That is like having 5 of the same planes walker in mtg but legal due to sub heading/titles. Like Chandra Nalar, Chandra Ablaze, Chandra Pyromaster, Chandra of Keledesh, Chandra Roaring flames.

Lols i bet you if i tried this at my Community they would rules lawyer me so that it was rai that the number of Cerastus can never outnumbered the regular Knights.

I have no idea what a planes walker is, but I'll assume you're comparing "fluff" non-Unique units from Warhammer 40k with potentially "fluff" unique units from another game. Bad comparison? Cerastus Knights aren't supposed to be unique. They're just supposed to be relatively rare. You just can't have more than half of your Knights force be composed of the same variant. The fact that you can have a force composed of several different variants may feel like an exploit, but probably just represents a formerly tech blessed Knight House who is down to its last few Knights... each a different variant.

In terms of your local community's reaction... that's a personal issue that we can't really help you with. The rules are pretty straightforward and unambiguous in this instance. Each community has its own peculiarities and house rules. My advice is to talk to them before making any expensive purchasing decisions. Having the biggest guns means less than nothing if nobody will play with you.