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2016/04/11 08:07:25
Subject: Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
Vaktathi wrote: However, that notwithstanding, my point is that if you're going to dress in something sexy, even if it's not the point of dressing in that outfit, don't be surprised or angry when people like to look at sexy things, regardless of gender. Just like if I had the physique of an Adonis and went out running in short and without a shirt on, I'm not going to expect that the school mum in the window as I run by may not take an extended look...
Since this is the foundation of your argument, let's explore it further.
Where do you draw the line for where an outfit, if worn, draws ogling that is perfectly respectable and not weird? Because I am going to go ahead and assume you agree that said kind of attention to someone wearing normal everyday office clothing would not be any of that.
Must it be designed with sexiness in mind (which you can't know for sure since in almost all cases you have not asked the designer, so it quickly walks into speculative territory)?
I'm somewhat inebriated currently so I apologize in advance if my thoughts seem scrambled currently.
There is no hard, quantifiable line in terms of % percentage of skin or whatnot (and even in US law regarding pornography, it's exceptionally vague to specify and famous case law basically says "I can't define it but I know it when I see it") and that can very from person to person, however there are a great number of things that can inform one as to what one should reasonably expect people might stare at.
Obviously, if someone is only barely avoiding a citation for indecent exposure and is almost completely naked, most everyone can agree that this character and cosplay is probably intended to attract sexual attention on some level and thus you may get some looks. Lets say another cosplayer in something like a Dana Scully office-outfit would probably not be, and in fact may not appear to many to be cosplaying at all but rather just very formally dressed and not terribly sexualized and thus it would probably be strange and weird for things like elevator eyes. For the sake of argument lets call those A and B respectively.
Now, if we've got something between A and B, say, a point C, where do we consider certain reactions and behavior like staring or elevator eyes to be not-unexpected (or whatever you want to call it)? Well, lets look at what defines these looks. A reveals more skin, more body outline, more body movement, and more body language than B. There is a lack of information in B. Certain parts of the body send different signals to other people and different genders find different things attractive. People interpret body information with a degree of sexual interest simply as a matter of course. When an outfit is designed to display things like skin and body outline in certain areas, that tells us different things. If a outfit is going out of its way to enhance and reveal areas of sexual interest (e.g. enhanced and exposed pecs & torso muscles on males, highlighted bus/cleavage or exposed thighs on females, exposed glutes on either), it's probably safe to assume some level of sexual attractiveness is intending to be portrayed. If you took the the Scully outfit, B, and dropped the neckline on the blouse by 3 or 4", hiked the skirt to the the mid-thigh, lost the coat, tossed in some 3" heels and pumped on a ton of makeup, well, we haven't turned C into A yet, but there's definitely some strong signals being sent regarding attention receptivity that B isn't sending. Alternatively we could say C is a different outfit, say one that covers almost all skin except the head and hands, but it's relatively form fitting. Well, in this case, ogling would probably be a bit weird regardless of gender, but if it's beyond just form fitting and is instead skin tight, hugging everything, and hiking up *everywhere*, well, that's conveying a fair bit more information and could probably be expected to draw sexual interest.
Is there an exact line? No, and that line would vary from person to person and situation to situation, but, in general, the more body information an outfit visually conveys, the more likely it is to be sexually attractive. It won't always be in every case, but is a pretty strong guideline. If you're playing a fighting game and the character is wearing a Gi, sweatpants and sandals, the character is probably not meant to be viewed sexually. If the character is male and is sporting exposed and extremely robust upper body musculature, or a female character with heels and exposed thighs/hips and shirt cutout specifically to display breast cleavage, well, they're probably intended to display some sex appeal.
So yeah, there's no easy answers, it's all judgement calls, but there's a ton of relatively common-sense stuff to inform that judgement. In the case of the two characters you mentioned previously, I would sat that without a doubt, these characters were intended to portray some sex appeal, Hanzo's naked archery chest-arm would be pointless in anything but the most ill-fitting of garments in terms of mobility advantage and revealing/unarmoring the most directly exposed part of your body to the enemy is a really poor idea. Likewise, Symmetras heels would be, well, an active hindrance to say the least in any sort of combat situation, and the skin tight, thigh revealing, bust highlight outfit she's sporting is probably not the most comfortable or practical of garments for any conceivable event that isn't intending to highlight sexualized body attributes. If I were cosplaying either of these characters (again, assuming I had such a physically perfect form ), I would not be surprised to get elevator eyes or a picture snapped.
EDIT:
Actually, just to ensure we are not having a meaningless discussion here:
As pointed out by EVERYONE'S BEST FRIEND who read this topic, we may not be thinking about 'ogling' in the same meaning.
There's 'staring inappropriately in a creepy manner' and 'looking at someone and thinking 'wow, sexy'. I am talking about the former here, and I assumed everyone else was as well. If you are talking about the latter, then eh, that happens and is not big deal. But the former happens too, and is a lot more unpleasant to be subjected to.
Didn't see this until I already wrote the above. Not sure this narrowing helps things, I get where you are coming from, but even this line varies tremendously, as I've seen this vary wildly from person to person in real life, with the former being anything from as mild as a double-take or brief eye contact to some, to as extreme as only counting as such if accompanied by some sort of other action for others. So much is dependent on the context and outfit at hand, that it's another one of those "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it", much like considering something Overpowered or not
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/04/11 08:14:51
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2016/04/11 08:58:58
Subject: Re:Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
I haven't seen it, so I don't believe her - Check.
What about male victims? - Check.
What about false accusations? - Check.
Some of them are asking for it and just get upset when men actually do it! - Check.
Stupid SJWs making stuff up on the internet - Check.
Well, now that we've covered all the points on the Dakka OT Social Justice Checklist, is it time to end the thread or no?
After wading through this entire thread, I feel exhausted at the prospect of writing anything more detailed than a synopsis of my thoughts. The quoted post kind of summed up the whole experience of reading this.
My isolated experience of this type of thing is of socially awkward gamers making occasional inappropriate comments; but nothing more than cringe-worthy ones both to male and female gamers. It's usually followed by a realisation that I'm not amused and they don't attempt it again. Other than that, my negative experiences revolve around badly written codices, power creep and other gak we've all come to expect from some wargames. I did learn fairly early on though that I'm better off playing in a local club with like-minded people rather than settling for first I came across.
Stuff in the post may occur. I wouldn't be surprised by half of it - though some of it raises an eyebrow as I'm sure many of you would agree it's socially bizzare, un-provoked behaviour towards the far end of the unacceptable spectrum. Much of it seems on par with someone walking up to you on the highstreet and caressing your Brazil nuts, then enigmatically striding away.
Thousand Sons: 3850pts / Space Marines Deathwatch 5000pts / Dark Eldar Webway Corsairs 2000pts / Scrapheap Challenged Orks 1500pts / Black Death 1500pts
Yeah, but trolls can and sometimes do try to look like normal people for the first few messages, for extra impact.
Talizvar wrote: Men are dogs, do not trust them and always assume every third thought is about sex.
No.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2016/04/11 12:49:38
Subject: Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
I got in touch with a few gaming buddies from Winnipeg and got their thoughts.
I guess a positive is that all the various little groups are turning inwards and "asking is this really happening?" and doing an honest evaluation of the safety of their events.
The consensus though seems to be that people don't experience things like that. A couple game stores are owned by women and are formally stated LGBT* safe spaces. Trans gamers feel welcome.
Female gamers report the usual socially awkward guy stuff. Board game club members insist they are happy to bring their teenage daughters to events.
I suppose its possible for a city to have very safe bright and open spaces but have very negative things going on in the shadows and when no one is watching, but it does strike me as strange that one person has suffered so much in so many different places while other people who have been to those same places and interacted with the same store employees and event organizers did not.
You'd expect the distribution of events to not be all on one person from multiple perpetrators at different times and places. Like when sexual assault allegations come out of the wood work, its usually one source with multiple victims who eventually come forward rather than one person going to multiple institutions and being victimized at all of them. Maybe more allegations will come to light.
2016/04/11 13:08:45
Subject: Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
Talizvar wrote: Men are dogs, do not trust them and always assume every third thought is about sex.
No.
I am sorry, the interval can vary.
Is that what the "no" was about?
Or are you stating we have transcended the need to procreate or feel attraction to those who demonstrate good "genes"?
It all boils down to trying to behave ourselves, trying to pretend the interest is not there is foolish.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2016/04/11 13:21:51
Subject: Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
Yeah, but trolls can and sometimes do try to look like normal people for the first few messages, for extra impact.
Considering I've had my fair share of experience with Smudge, I think I would know just a little bit more of his behaviour. I heavily assume any message he sent was with good intentions and considering he only sent one message before getting insulted says the other party was not in the mood to discuss the topic, politely or not.
H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
2016/04/11 15:12:34
Subject: Re:Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
So after a very very brief search I grabbed these images. These are Cosplay girls at comic con and i think another event. They went to events dressed like this.
#1 looks like Mortal combat sort of. I am not familiar enough with the game to say they changed the outfits in any way, shape or form.
#2 is apparently a female spiderman? Im sorry but wearing the smallest shorts possible and a tiny white shirt with spider man on it is not Cosplay nor is it her trying to copy her favorite character this is a clear cut case of her dressing provocatively on purpose to draw attention to herself.
#3: I am not a super huge fan of Star Wars, but If i remember correctly Boba Fett was a male character who wore pants and a full length shirt covered up with body armor. So is this a women trying to replicate her favorite Star Wars character? maybe, is this her trying to make her character as sexy/slutty as possible to draw attention to herself? Definitely.
I am sorry but at some point your going to have to come to the realization that women that dress like these photos are not doing so because they are fans trying to imitate their favorite characters, they are trying to draw as much attention as possible by revealing as much of their skin as they can get away with.
THIS is probably a great example of actual fandom and appropriate cosplay.
Spoiler:
This is a girl Cosplaying as a male character because it is most likely her favorite character, and she nailed it perfectly.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/04/11 15:17:14
H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
2016/04/11 15:15:06
Subject: Re:Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
Allow me to elaborate. No, men are not dogs. No, one should not assume that every third thought every man have is about sex. Furthermore, men are completely able to not act on their attraction to someone if they want to. Except maybe for a very few people with really deep issues I guess.
Furthermore, women are not dogs either. It would also be wrong to assume their every third thought is about sex, though they do think about sex and find some men attractive. And they are just as able to not act on their attraction to someone.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2016/04/11 15:33:34
Subject: Re:Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
#1 looks like Mortal combat sort of. I am not familiar enough with the game to say they changed the outfits in any way, shape or form.
They didn't
Spoiler:
SemperMortis wrote: #2 is apparently a female spiderman? Im sorry but wearing the smallest shorts possible and a tiny white shirt with spider man on it is not Cosplay nor is it her trying to copy her favorite character this is a clear cut case of her dressing provocatively on purpose to draw attention to herself.
Pretty sure that is supposed to be spider mans girlfriend.
SemperMortis wrote: #3: I am not a super huge fan of Star Wars, but If i remember correctly Boba Fett was a male character who wore pants and a full length shirt covered up with body armor. So is this a women trying to replicate her favorite Star Wars character? maybe, is this her trying to make her character as sexy/slutty as possible to draw attention to herself? Definitely.
Something in cosplay I have seen is making "sexy" female versions of male characters. I am not familiar enough with cosplay to tell why exactly people do that.
SemperMortis wrote: I am sorry but at some point your going to have to come to the realization that women that dress like these photos are not doing so because they are fans trying to imitate their favorite characters, they are trying to draw as much attention as possible by revealing as much of their skin as they can get away with.
Ok there is a certain element of cosplay that is like an adult costume party on Halloween. Where normal everyday women will dress up in sexy outfits that they wouldn't normally wear. Maybe they are doing it for attention, maybe they are just doing it as form of self expression. A lot of these fictional characters are about playing into peoples fantasies at the end of the day.
SemperMortis wrote: THIS is probably a great example of actual fandom and appropriate cosplay.
Spoiler:
This is a girl Cosplaying as a male character because it is most likely her favorite character, and she nailed it perfectly.
The women in the first picture also nailed it as well.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2016/04/11 15:59:47
2016/04/11 15:41:10
Subject: Re:Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
So after a very very brief search I grabbed these images. These are Cosplay girls at comic con and i think another event. They went to events dressed like this.
#1 looks like Mortal combat sort of. I am not familiar enough with the game to say they changed the outfits in any way, shape or form.
#2 is apparently a female spiderman? Im sorry but wearing the smallest shorts possible and a tiny white shirt with spider man on it is not Cosplay nor is it her trying to copy her favorite character this is a clear cut case of her dressing provocatively on purpose to draw attention to herself.
#3: I am not a super huge fan of Star Wars, but If i remember correctly Boba Fett was a male character who wore pants and a full length shirt covered up with body armor. So is this a women trying to replicate her favorite Star Wars character? maybe, is this her trying to make her character as sexy/slutty as possible to draw attention to herself? Definitely.
I am sorry but at some point your going to have to come to the realization that women that dress like these photos are not doing so because they are fans trying to imitate their favorite characters, they are trying to draw as much attention as possible by revealing as much of their skin as they can get away with.
THIS is probably a great example of actual fandom and appropriate cosplay.
Spoiler:
This is a girl Cosplaying as a male character because it is most likely her favorite character, and she nailed it perfectly.
#1 No, that's pretty much spot on for Mortal Kombat. However, I think Jade and Mileena are dangerously close to being inappropriate in terms of loin cloth ratio.
#2 seems like a stretch, but not quite sure. That's not Mary Jane, or who I'd consider a good cosplay of Mary Jane.
#3 is actually cool. A little bit of sexiness, but a cool concept.
Blood Hawk wrote: Something in cosplay I have seen is making "sexy" female versions of male characters.
Also sexy male version of male characters:
Spoiler:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/11 15:46:29
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2016/04/11 15:44:04
Subject: Re:Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
I think I can find sexy male version of a female character, I think I saw something like this. Just give a little bit of time …
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2016/04/11 15:53:30
Subject: Re:Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
#3 is actually cool. A little bit of sexiness, but a cool concept.
"A little bit" is kind of a funny way to put it since she has a cleavage cutout, bare entire lower part of torso, tiny pants and a garter belt. Let's call it the kinksuit it actually is.
2016/04/11 15:53:53
Subject: Re:Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
I haven't seen it, so I don't believe her - Check.
What about male victims? - Check.
What about false accusations? - Check.
Some of them are asking for it and just get upset when men actually do it! - Check.
Stupid SJWs making stuff up on the internet - Check.
Well, now that we've covered all the points on the Dakka OT Social Justice Checklist, is it time to end the thread or no?
After wading through this entire thread, I feel exhausted at the prospect of writing anything more detailed than a synopsis of my thoughts. The quoted post kind of summed up the whole experience of reading this.
My isolated experience of this type of thing is of socially awkward gamers making occasional inappropriate comments; but nothing more than cringe-worthy ones both to male and female gamers. It's usually followed by a realisation that I'm not amused and they don't attempt it again. Other than that, my negative experiences revolve around badly written codices, power creep and other gak we've all come to expect from some wargames. I did learn fairly early on though that I'm better off playing in a local club with like-minded people rather than settling for first I came across.
Stuff in the post may occur. I wouldn't be surprised by half of it - though some of it raises an eyebrow as I'm sure many of you would agree it's socially bizzare, un-provoked behaviour towards the far end of the unacceptable spectrum. Much of it seems on par with someone walking up to you on the highstreet and caressing your Brazil nuts, then enigmatically striding away.
But... is it guilty until proven innocent, or innocent until proven guilty? I can hardly remember anymore....
"Let them that are happy talk of piety; we that would work our adversary must take no account of laws."http://back2basing.blogspot.pt/
2016/04/11 16:01:39
Subject: Re:Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
Also, Ladybeard from the metal band Ladybaby. Look them up. Here is a MV:
Spoiler:
Welcome to the internet, enjoy your stay .
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2016/04/11 16:02:59
Subject: Re:Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2016/04/11 16:20:33
Subject: Re:Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
Something in cosplay I have seen is making "sexy" female versions of male characters. I am not familiar enough with cosplay to tell why exactly people do that.
Why?
A T T E N T I O N
Plain and simple.
They want people to look at them!
They *want* to show off their body!
It's *far* less about the character than it is about showing themselves off.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Goes for either gender "sexy-ing" up the character.
Automatically Appended Next Post: My contribution to the "nailed it" Cosplay.
(and for the record, I find this sexy in a way..part of the sexiness for me is in the face)
Spoiler:
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/04/11 16:31:40
I destroy my enemies when I make them my friends.
Three!! Three successful trades! Ah ah ah!
2016/04/11 16:32:17
Subject: Re:Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
#3 is actually cool. A little bit of sexiness, but a cool concept.
"A little bit" is kind of a funny way to put it since she has a cleavage cutout, bare entire lower part of torso, tiny pants and a garter belt. Let's call it the kinksuit it actually is.
Excuse me, did you ignore #1? She's far more covered up than the Mortal Kombat girls.
jonolikespie wrote: Isn't the line between "looking at someone and thinking 'wow, sexy'" and "staring inappropriately in a creepy manner" also a totally subjective line that's never going to be able to be pinned down in this discussion right alongside what counts as 'designed to be sexy' cloths?
When I was a builder I was involved in a construction project at the local university. There was an official "three second" rule regrading workers looking at female students and of course a strict "no cat-calling" policy.
This policy was known to both workers and students. It was definitely pinned down
Guys were removed from site after a student complained (not fired, just transferred to a different project).
I personally was cat-called at by a car full of girls. I thought it was hilarious and a little bit flattered, and got many congratulations from the guys when word went round the site.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
2016/04/11 18:28:18
Subject: Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
jonolikespie wrote: Isn't the line between "looking at someone and thinking 'wow, sexy'" and "staring inappropriately in a creepy manner" also a totally subjective line that's never going to be able to be pinned down in this discussion right alongside what counts as 'designed to be sexy' cloths?
When I was a builder I was involved in a construction project at the local university. There was an official "three second" rule regrading workers looking at female students and of course a strict "no cat-calling" policy.
This policy was known to both workers and students. It was definitely pinned down
Guys were removed from site after a student complained (not fired, just transferred to a different project).
I personally was cat-called at by a car full of girls. I thought it was hilarious and a little bit flattered, and got many congratulations from the guys when word went round the site.
To take this a bit further. If you're in doubt about the line or think someone particularly the person you might be looking at might disagree about where the line is: Just don't look. You're in control of your head, you're in control of your eyes and it's as easy too not look at someone as it is too look at them. It's as easy to leave people alone as it is to bother them and in general that's the best call.
It's important to remember that as a general rule:
You are aren't important
You are aren't interesting to anyone but yourself, your friends and your family.
Nobody wants your opinion.
Nobody wants your approval.
Nobody wants your attention.
Everybody is doing their own thing for their own reasons, largely for themselves. From what they eat to what they wear they're doing it for themselves or sometimes specific individuals they actually give a gak about.
The chances of your degrading somebody's day by sticking your self in it is less than your chances of improving it by doing so.
This is true generally, and doubly to triply so if you're just some random dude considering any potential interaction with just some random woman.
*You here is is general, not feeder an/dor jonolikespie specifically.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/04/12 03:39:35
2016/04/11 18:37:33
Subject: Re:Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
#3 is actually cool. A little bit of sexiness, but a cool concept.
"A little bit" is kind of a funny way to put it since she has a cleavage cutout, bare entire lower part of torso, tiny pants and a garter belt. Let's call it the kinksuit it actually is.
Excuse me, did you ignore #1? She's far more covered up than the Mortal Kombat girls.
The MK9 ones, anyway. Part of why I love MKX is because it is far more diverse - MK9 just had recolours/slight reskins of the same string bikini high heel model for almost all of the women, and MKX, well, does not.
See the new character Jacqueline Briggs.
Spoiler:
Or the new Mileena, who wears perhaps the most risque outfit in that game, but still is the female character I play the most (because she is COOL.)
Spoiler:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/11 18:38:06
Ashiraya wrote: You are 100% legally permitted to ogle a cosplayer, Severance, (within reason) just as they 100% have the right to think you are a creep for doing so.
I just wanted to be sure. There are mixed signals in the cosplay community as some believe that a person shouldn't be objectifying them. For the record I don't ogle cosplayers, but I have no issues at thinking someone is dressed sexily. I am however a quite a bit more tactful since I hang out with a good portion of them at various cons.
Ashiraya wrote: There's 'staring inappropriately in a creepy manner' and 'looking at someone and thinking 'wow, sexy'.
Unfortunately given the circle of gamers, comic-cons, nerd and geek culture a good portion of people are socially awkward. It isn't meant to be an excuse but unfortunately there are quite a few people who don't even realize they are looking in a creepy manner. Keep in mind creepy is subjective to the person making the assumption. Not everyone knows how to properly look at someone without seemingly being creepy.
I look at cosplayers quite a lot as I've been part of that community for awhile. Before then however I am and always been a gamer first. There is a large influx of different crowds in the community. It no longer is about getting into the hobby because someone is a fan of something. There is a good portion of the community that is in cosplay for prop making, costuming, craftmanship and many more who have moved into modeling or youtube celebrity status. It is pretty much a college campus of everything from jocks, models, nerds and geeks which unfortunately creates some tension.
There are many instances where I have met up with friends, taken pictures and we are all goofing around. Our friends have been known at times to be friendly with each other but that tends to come from they are our friends. Unfortunately ongoers don't realize this and assume that it is ok to touch them or spank their ass. That is where the basis for "Cosplay is Not Consent" starts. It is often why we're in groups of people. I have often had to escort cosplayers back to their rooms to prevent issues from happening.
Escorting Zerina who was dressed up as Vanessa Vancleef or Alexstrasza to the hotel at PAX Prime, most of the time everyone was respectful. There will always be some people ogling and even a few cat calls. That is unfortunately part of the territory. There are times that they thought she wasn't wearing pants so where someone saw flesh/skin, it was actually nude dancer tights so she was completely covered. It doesn't mean that is right in terms of respectfulness, but these people don't know them so I wouldn't also expect them to have the same restraint. As long as they don't actually try to touch them, they are welcome to their thoughts, looks and free speech. The crux of free speech does mean that people can make situations uncomfortable for others.
2016/04/11 19:23:57
Subject: Re:Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
#3 is actually cool. A little bit of sexiness, but a cool concept.
"A little bit" is kind of a funny way to put it since she has a cleavage cutout, bare entire lower part of torso, tiny pants and a garter belt. Let's call it the kinksuit it actually is.
Excuse me, did you ignore #1? She's far more covered up than the Mortal Kombat girls.
The MK9 ones, anyway. Part of why I love MKX is because it is far more diverse - MK9 just had recolours/slight reskins of the same string bikini high heel model for almost all of the women, and MKX, well, does not.
See the new character Jacqueline Briggs.
Spoiler:
Or the new Mileena, who wears perhaps the most risque outfit in that game, but still is the female character I play the most (because she is COOL.)
Spoiler:
To be fair, I was referring to the cosplay in pic #1, I have no problems with the MK costumes. Side note, I love Mileena's new look and Jacqui's costume
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2016/04/11 20:30:08
Subject: Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
Sgt_Smudge wrote: I personally cannot side with the woman in the OP. I did attempt to contact her and have discussion about some of the more crass and inflammatory matter in her article. She blocked me after my second message. If she was unwilling to talk, that's fine, but the fact she chose to insult me before blocking speaks volumes about how much I should care for her.
I don't know what your messages where about. However, given how broadly her message was broadcasted, I can imagine she had to deal with tons of angry people and trolls that would be very annoying. Maybe you sounded somehow like a bunch of trolls she had to deal with and she reacted preemptively, assuming you would similarly turn into a troll?
This was precisely why I was concerned about messaging her. So, I made sure beforehand and checked with friends I knew in that particular domain of Tumblr (who would somewhat sympathise with every word she said) as to what I had said. They found no flaws whatsoever with what I had written. Not only that, but if she isn't prepared to give just a little time for someone whose identity/situation isn't 100% clear, I don't see why I should then have any sympathy for someone in the same situation.
It was done with the best etiquette, without leading questions, and remained completely neutral. But sure. White male gamer terrorists.
Yeah, but trolls can and sometimes do try to look like normal people for the first few messages, for extra impact.
But then, so is a non-troll. I don't see the point? If that's the issue, then why bother talking at all - everyone could be a troll waiting for that extra impact.
Surely we're advocating innocent before guilty here?
Again - this is by no means a confrontation. I'm just a little concerned that their first reaction was to be just as close-minded in her response as so many others were to here.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/04/11 20:46:23
They/them
2016/04/11 21:29:14
Subject: Person claims her experiences with Wyrd (and tabletop gaming) amount to terrorism
Sgt_Smudge wrote: So, I made sure beforehand and checked with friends I knew in that particular domain of Tumblr (who would somewhat sympathise with every word she said) as to what I had said. They found no flaws whatsoever with what I had written.
My bad, then.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1