Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 LunarSol wrote:
There's a difference between believing you're doing the right thing and actually doing the right thing though. No one sees themselves as the villain after all. Seryu Ubiquitous probably being one of the more entertaining versions of this.

Which is why many of the rebels actions reflect the same as the empires lol. The old because we are doing the right thing we don't have to think about what we are doing.

Honestly, the problem is likely to be because we see a lot of what the rebels do or think but little on why the those that fight for the empire do what they do. So the rebels are the only ones who can lose face, the empire almost literally lacks a face. So it is easier to point out if the rebels are being hypocritical but not the hypocrisy of the empire.

For me, one of the bigger problems with Star Wars is that there's never been 'enough time' between Ep 3 and Ep 4.

R1 doesn't help with this problem...

 Manchu wrote:
I agree with all of those points Scrabb. The mind monster was really out of place and it was almost like they got drunk and high, came up with that and shot it, and then their hangover was so bad they forgot it was in the movie. But eh feth it, right? Just leave it in.

I suspect it was added in later due to the studio demanding some kind of monster appear in the film. I could be wrong, but it felt tacked on to me.

Saw it again and loved it, need to watch A New Hope now

On the second time, I especially liked seeing the turn in the main two characters as the movie progressed. Wish they had more movies to develop them, but they knew they wouldn't and clearly developed them with that in mind. CGI was a lot less noticeable to me on the second round, too, since I knew it was coming. Still think the final scene is absurdly well done, and my wife actually didn't know either were CGI until I told her afterwards

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
I agree with all of those points Scrabb. The mind monster was really out of place and it was almost like they got drunk and high, came up with that and shot it, and then their hangover was so bad they forgot it was in the movie. But eh feth it, right? Just leave it in.

I suspect it was added in later due to the studio demanding some kind of monster appear in the film. I could be wrong, but it felt tacked on to me.

Several of the monsters were put in by the FX people as references to Edwards' previous work. (Because SFX people are huge nerds, too).
He had a monster movie before Godzilla and elements of monsters from both were used.

Obviously, the rebels in the corridor were able to pass on the info. I was bitting my nails through the whole scene though.

Anyone else notice the blind Jedi guy had what appeared to be a lightsabre at the end of his staff? I wonder if there were scenes of him using it that got cut? I just don't like 'sticks' being used as weapons in star wars

Oh weird, I didn't think of that. I was wondering what the metal end cap of his staff was for, since it didn't seem to do anything.

His stick wasn't just a stick.
He did "tase" people with it - it did seem to spark a bit when he fought the troopers, and it was part of his weird jedi crossbow gun too.

I did like the way he could see where the shot would "be" and not be there (so it looks like he's dodging the shots) - but he also timed one of those shots of his own, so that the arc of the crashing ship would do more damage - so he may not be jedi but he did have some skillz.

Seen it today and it was alot better than I thought it would be. Didnt expect much tho after TFA.

It did seem to drag on at first but once it got going, it was excellent. I need time to think it over but it might be my favourite star wars film to date. Definitely my top 3 along with ESB and ROTJ.

I was slightly put off by the kung-fu monk at first with the over the top swinging of his stick but he merged in nicely as the movie progressed.

The cameos were handled better than I expected too, bar the cantina guys who didnt need to be in it. Tarkin was handled great and having him be around to steal the glory in person definitely added more to the setting than a hologram could of. Vader showing up and being a phantom menace was good too.

In the novel of ANH, Vader is only around because he's been given the job of RECOVERING the stolen plans. (Tarkin is plainly in charge of the DS, and Leia knows that Tarkin is in charge.). Yes, he's the emperor's bully-boy, but he's not there as general arse-kicker.

Not to kill jedi, not to kill rebels (but should he happen to do any of those whilst doing his main job, it's all good). So it makes sense that he would turn up and do something AFTER the heist and get to be badass. After all, Krennick is dead, and Tarkin is now in charge of the DS, where he will remain until the Battle of Yavin.

It also places his Star Destroyer, the Devastator, at the battle of Scarif. Devastator was the ship that pursued, captured and destroyed the Tantive IV over tattooine.

Pig Nose and Scrotum Chin didn't really need to be in the movie. That was a dumb cameo even though it did make me laugh. But apart from that, I'm pretty happy with the whole movie over all.

The good news is that it's better than A New Hope, which isn't saying much.

The bad news is that it's a bad film and I'd like my money back! Technically, it was free becuase it was 2 for 1, but that's another story.

Anyway, It's caught between this no man's land of war is hell, and Disney bosses trying to reign it in to make it more family friendly for the big bucks, and sadly, this results in the film dying in the cross-fire between this creative tension.

Vader needs to go. Quickly. he adds nothing to the film. I'm reminded of Stephen King's writing advice about adverbs i.e when you feel the need to include an adverb, replace it with a swear word, your editor will delete it and the text will be fine and you'll thank your editor.

A similar approach should be taken with any Star Wars film: if a scriptwriter feels the need to keep the fanboys happy, leave it out and the film will continue on its merry way.

Characters. Dull. Nothing more to say. Wasn't expecting much. The natural charm and charisma of Harrison Ford and Billy Dee Williams is hard to replicate. These characters are just too good at what they do compared to the average guy.

Finally, the aesthetics. I know this will be unpopular, but hell, Star Wars needs George Lucas back. Now!

Yes, the Phantom Menace was a bad film, but its heart was in the right place. It was poorly executed, but damn, Lucas tried to give us a new look, a new feel, new planets, new visions. That's one thing I'll never fault Lucas for, he tried for that aesthetic. New planets, new designs, new stuff.

Rogue 1 is familiar, too familiar, and like TFA, it adds nothing new. There's a whole galaxy out there, millions of stories, but we get this, which feels nothing more than another cash in. And the CGI characters. Meh.

Final Rating: 2/5.

Wow, I think I feel opposite to you on just about everything, DINLT . I'd like to stay as far away from current-Lucas and the 1-3 movies (although I did enjoy Phantom Menace) as possible! I also can't believe you dislike A New Hope... I guess we'll never be catching a movie together then

I gotta say DINLT, I disagree with a lot of what you said but I respect you for saying it.

I mean, K2S0, dull? Come on!

 RiTides wrote:
Wow, I think I feel opposite to you on just about everything, DINLT . I'd like to stay as far away from current-Lucas and the 1-3 movies (although I did enjoy Phantom Menace) as possible! I also can't believe you dislike A New Hope... I guess we'll never be catching a movie together then

Made a major error there with New Hope.

Got it mixed up with The Force Awakens

Nah, New Hope is a good film, Force awakens, is terrible.

One the issue of episodes 1-3, yeah, they're not good films. I don't mind them, but the dialogue is bad, the acting wooden, and the execution is poor.

But for all their faults, they look like Star Wars films, they feel like what a Star wars film should look like. We had the aesthetic of the Old Republic and various other odd looking planets.

George Lucas deserves criticism for a lot of things, but at least he tried to give us something new with the visual look of episodes 1-3.

New Hope = Desert Planet. Empire = Ice World. ROTJ = Forest World. Episodes 1-3 gave us Naboo, and yeah, they went back to the desert, but we had lava world and of course, we had a capital city that was the entire planet. The urban setting was good.

In force awakens we got desert again, and in rogue one, we got a new hope again. Not good.

Rogue One, just doesn't do anything new for me. Like the Force awakens, it plays it safe, plays the familiar.

There are millions of stories out there in that galaxy, and Disney know that whatever film they put out, people will watch it because it's SW.

They could have gambled on something different, a new look, but they won't because the priority is not film-making or aesthetics or even entertainment, it's money.

And for me, the franchise will slowly decline because of the reluctance to take risks.

We don't think about it now, but the massive risk they took to make Vader Luke's father, when you compare Vader in New Hope to Empire, changed so much for the better. That's what I'm talking about.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I gotta say DINLT, I disagree with a lot of what you said but I respect you for saying it.

I mean, K2S0, dull? Come on!

It was the comedy relief that unfortunately didn't provide any comedy. A huge Nil points from me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I gotta say DINLT, I disagree with a lot of what you said but I respect you for saying it.

I mean, K2S0, dull? Come on!

The comedy sidekick has to provide comedy. Unfortunately, this one didn't. Nil points from me.

Oh come on...Rogue One is an order of magnitude better than the unoriginal gak show that was The Force Awakens.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Oh come on...Rogue One is an order of magnitude better than the unoriginal gak show that was The Force Awakens.

Yeah, it's better, no question, but the bar wasn't exactly set high!

 Skymate wrote:
Anyone else notice the blind Jedi guy had what appeared to be a lightsabre at the end of his staff?

It wasn't a lightsaber but it did contain a kyber crystal. He could hear the resonance of the crystal, allowing him to know where the end of his staff was when fighting.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Made a major error there with New Hope.

Got it mixed up with The Force Awakens

Ah that makes a bit more sense then

I loved K2SO and even thought the humor of the blind character was great once I saw where they were going with him. I think he's my favorite character of the film now

Good to know about the crystal in his staff, that makes sense!

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Yeah, it's better, no question, but the bar wasn't exactly set high!

I second this emotion.

Its an OK film, to be honest one of the better Star Wars films (that isn't much of an accolade though) but it was definitely lacking the spark of greatness.

I liked the use of '70's' technology, despite it being spectacularly impractical, and the slightly more realtistic tone. The nods to the original film were generally quite good (CGI Tarkin didn't look right to me though). Unfortunately this film was just filled with stupid. From the genius weapons scientist hiding out in a completely undefended farm to troops thinking that the best way to hold a defensive position is to charge lemming like across open ground into 'machine gun' fire. The script really need some sanity checking.

My wife now includes this film on her list of 'so bad its good' films, she spent most of the film laughing...

I feel the need to address some things DINLT brought up. Not everything, just a few items.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Vader needs to go. Quickly. he adds nothing to the film. I'm reminded of Stephen King's writing advice about adverbs i.e when you feel the need to include an adverb, replace it with a swear word, your editor will delete it and the text will be fine and you'll thank your editor.

I thought Vader was used quite well. He was mostly a background character until the very end and his role there perfectly transitions into the start of A New Hope. Why was Princess Leia going to Tatooine and why was Vader hot on her heels? That last bit not only explained it but it set up that ANH opening scene expertly.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
A similar approach should be taken with any Star Wars film: if a scriptwriter feels the need to keep the fanboys happy, leave it out and the film will continue on its merry way.

I agree. R2D2 and C3PO were shoehorned in for fan service and they looked out of place. It's one of those cameos where you're left wondering how they got from Yavin to Leia's blockade runner in the amount of time that was available to them.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Characters. Dull. Nothing more to say. Wasn't expecting much. The natural charm and charisma of Harrison Ford and Billy Dee Williams is hard to replicate. These characters are just too good at what they do compared to the average guy.

A few were dull, yes. Others were okay. I thought the Imperials were well done with the exception of Uncanny Valley Tarkin. But, if you can get past the CGI, Tarkin's character was actually very well written. The rebels were less engaging but at least there were no Mary Sue's in this film.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Rogue 1 is familiar, too familiar, and like TFA, it adds nothing new. There's a whole galaxy out there, millions of stories, but we get this, which feels nothing more than another cash in.

Rogue One needed to be close to ANH in aesthetics since it takes place literally weeks before it and leads directly into it. We also saw a bunch of new planets in this film, though most of that was in the first 20 minutes. As for other stories that don't revolve around the Skywalkers, yes there are many options available but that complaint is better reserved for Episode 7 which literally recycled everything just to make some coin.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Final Rating: 2/5.

To each their own but I think you're being too hard on this movie. I'd give it a 4/5 at least. It's isn't perfect but it's still a good story, fits into the events of the first trilogy, and explains some glairing issues without retconning everything.

I've been really tough on R1 but consistently praised its look. I would never want to go back to the sterility of the Prequels. Those movies - like CGI Tarkin and Leia - are doomed to look increasingly terrible over time, and - again like CGI Tarkin and Leia - many of them did not look great to begin with. If there is anything I would say Lucas did better than Edwards it's having the wisdom to only show battles as backdrops; that is, where the progress/mechanics of the battles themselves had no real bearing on the plot. But R1 definitely looks better than any and all of the prequels and will stand up over time much better as well, minus the afore-mentioned CGI characters. Yes, R1 did not look groundbreaking (which is partly why RedS8n can accurately say it felt like a SW RPG session) but it did look authentic and, more importantly, interesting.

 Manchu wrote:
I've been really tough on R1 but consistently praised its look. I would never want to go back to the sterility of the Prequels. Those movies - like CGI Tarkin and Leia - are doomed to look increasingly terrible over time, and - again like CGI Tarkin and Leia - many of them did not look great to begin with. If there is anything I would say Lucas did better than Edwards it's having the wisdom to only show battles as backdrops; that is, where the progress/mechanics of the battles themselves had no real bearing on the plot. But R1 definitely looks better than any and all of the prequels and will stand up over time much better as well, minus the afore-mentioned CGI characters. Yes, R1 did not look groundbreaking (which is partly why RedS8n can accurately say it felt like a SW RPG session) but it did look authentic and, more importantly, interesting.

Re: aesthetics.

I agree that it really handled it well. Darth Vader being there, and fitting in asthetically, really shows that well.

I thought that the few scenes with Vader really showed just how many (real) decades actually separated Episode III from ANH. Darth "Big Red Buttons On His Chest" Vader really seemed completely out of place in the sleek and modern bridge standing next to the emperor. The costumes and set just seemed very incompatible. R1, while still modern, managed to combine new effects and old looks in a way that made Vader at least look like he came from the same costume department.

I don't understand the whole revisiting thing for Rogue One.

We have Eadu - Rain World and Scarif - Tropical World.

The only real comparison is Jeddha as a desert world, but you spent most of the time there inside the city anyway.

I'm not sure if this has been shared yet, but the poster for the Rogue One sequel was leaked:

 Manchu wrote:
I've been really tough on R1 but consistently praised its look. I would never want to go back to the sterility of the Prequels. Those movies - like CGI Tarkin and Leia - are doomed to look increasingly terrible over time, and - again like CGI Tarkin and Leia - many of them did not look great to begin with. If there is anything I would say Lucas did better than Edwards it's having the wisdom to only show battles as backdrops; that is, where the progress/mechanics of the battles themselves had no real bearing on the plot. But R1 definitely looks better than any and all of the prequels and will stand up over time much better as well, minus the afore-mentioned CGI characters. Yes, R1 did not look groundbreaking (which is partly why RedS8n can accurately say it felt like a SW RPG session) but it did look authentic and, more importantly, interesting.

The Star Wars battles post ROTJ are lacking something and for me, they're lacking menace and emotion.

The Assault on Hoth had a real WW2 feel about it, and there was a real sense that the AT-AT walkers were not only dangerous opponents, but really hard to stop. It felt in the balance from the moment it started the way swung from the rebels to the imperials. And the retreat at the end was done well.

Even in ROTJ, the Death Star assault had good drama, and even the Endor battle had its moments, especially when the Ewoks got killed.

But the SW prequels and Rogue One seemed to be lacking that element of menace of danger.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Breotan wrote:
I feel the need to address some things DINLT brought up. Not everything, just a few items.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Vader needs to go. Quickly. he adds nothing to the film. I'm reminded of Stephen King's writing advice about adverbs i.e when you feel the need to include an adverb, replace it with a swear word, your editor will delete it and the text will be fine and you'll thank your editor.

I thought Vader was used quite well. He was mostly a background character until the very end and his role there perfectly transitions into the start of A New Hope. Why was Princess Leia going to Tatooine and why was Vader hot on her heels? That last bit not only explained it but it set up that ANH opening scene expertly.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
A similar approach should be taken with any Star Wars film: if a scriptwriter feels the need to keep the fanboys happy, leave it out and the film will continue on its merry way.

I agree. R2D2 and C3PO were shoehorned in for fan service and they looked out of place. It's one of those cameos where you're left wondering how they got from Yavin to Leia's blockade runner in the amount of time that was available to them.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Characters. Dull. Nothing more to say. Wasn't expecting much. The natural charm and charisma of Harrison Ford and Billy Dee Williams is hard to replicate. These characters are just too good at what they do compared to the average guy.

A few were dull, yes. Others were okay. I thought the Imperials were well done with the exception of Uncanny Valley Tarkin. But, if you can get past the CGI, Tarkin's character was actually very well written. The rebels were less engaging but at least there were no Mary Sue's in this film.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Rogue 1 is familiar, too familiar, and like TFA, it adds nothing new. There's a whole galaxy out there, millions of stories, but we get this, which feels nothing more than another cash in.

Rogue One needed to be close to ANH in aesthetics since it takes place literally weeks before it and leads directly into it. We also saw a bunch of new planets in this film, though most of that was in the first 20 minutes. As for other stories that don't revolve around the Skywalkers, yes there are many options available but that complaint is better reserved for Episode 7 which literally recycled everything just to make some coin.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Final Rating: 2/5.

To each their own but I think you're being too hard on this movie. I'd give it a 4/5 at least. It's isn't perfect but it's still a good story, fits into the events of the first trilogy, and explains some glairing issues without retconning everything.

I get why they went for the New Hope look, even though I disagree with it, but I think they ended worrying more about the look than the substance.

A New Hope is a good film, not as good as Empire or Jedi in my book, but at least a New Hope had heart and humour to it.

Rogue One feels like a well made film that ticks a lot of boxes, but for want of a better word, it's lacking some 'soul.'

It's too cold for me, something which a lot of modern films seem to suffer from IMO.

On reflection, I think Rogue One would have been a great idea and story for a Star Wars video game, much like Shadows of the Empire was (shadows being one of my favourite games of all time)

but as a film? Nah. Shadows wouldn't work as a film, and neither did Rogue One IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Yeah, it's better, no question, but the bar wasn't exactly set high!

I second this emotion.

Its an OK film, to be honest one of the better Star Wars films (that isn't much of an accolade though) but it was definitely lacking the spark of greatness.

I liked the use of '70's' technology, despite it being spectacularly impractical, and the slightly more realtistic tone. The nods to the original film were generally quite good (CGI Tarkin didn't look right to me though). Unfortunately this film was just filled with stupid. From the genius weapons scientist hiding out in a completely undefended farm to troops thinking that the best way to hold a defensive position is to charge lemming like across open ground into 'machine gun' fire. The script really need some sanity checking.

My wife now includes this film on her list of 'so bad its good' films, she spent most of the film laughing...

Yeah, I don't like the way they tried to take on AT-AT walkers. It goes completely against the standard that was set in Empire Strikes back.

You run from these things, you don't take them on unless you're Skywalker.

 Galef wrote:
I'm not sure if this has been shared yet, but the poster for the Rogue One sequel was leaked:

Even better...

Personally, I didn't mind Ponda Bubba and Dr Evezan's cameo. If you ask me, using a pair of minor background thugs like those two was a FAR BETTER choice then cramming someone else in like the all-powerful Ashoka or a certain bounty hunter.
If Boba Fett walked by, that would have been fan service and if Ashoka appeared, I would have gone ballistic. I hate Ashoka because she lived out her usefulness years ago and Dave Feloni is trying really hard to make her the 'Wolverine' of star wars

 Manchu wrote:
Those movies - like CGI Tarkin and Leia - are doomed to look increasingly terrible over time, and - again like CGI Tarkin and Leia - many of them did not look great to begin with.

IMO CGI Tarkin and Leia are much less of an aging issue than the prequels. They're fairly minor elements that can be updated pretty easily without completely re-doing the entire movie. How much effort will it take, ten years from now, to fix the five seconds of movie that Leia is visible for? Probably not very much. The problem with the prequels aging is that the CGI is 90% of the movie, fixing it would mean essentially deleting the whole thing and starting over from scratch. And, unlike Rogue One, everything else about the prequels is terrible so there's no looking past an occasional dated piece of effects work and appreciating the movie as a whole.

If there is anything I would say Lucas did better than Edwards it's having the wisdom to only show battles as backdrops; that is, where the progress/mechanics of the battles themselves had no real bearing on the plot.

Uh, what? Are you forgetting about ANH and ROTJ?

That was my take on the CGI too - easy enough to update in the future, although I really didn't think the scene with Leia needed it! Tarkin with his greater amount of dialogue could probably use some sprucing up in a decade, but then again so did the original movies even (Is there any way to watch them with updated explosions / effects but not the sometimes-terrible added scenes, btw? That song in Jabba's palace is just painful!)