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 Formosa wrote:
I disagree, 15 games in so far and 15 wins against some very competitive 30k armies, but I know my word doesn't mean squat on the tinternet, so I think ill post some bet reps, vidoes of course.

For me its all about taking advantage of what they offer, and the 3+ to hit with blades is nothing to sniff at, 2 conbi stasis in a terminator unit or on a tac sarge means I'm hitting those elites on a 3+ most of the time, plasma repeaters in rhino are also really good, frags wound on a 4+, volkite chargers on a 2+, it all adds up when combined with the protocalls, the terranic greatsword is pure death to anything with a 3+ and multi wounds, calab blades are also pure gravy, for the same points as a power sword I'm getting +1 str, stasis missiles on my heavy support squad are also great, then we get the borderline broken molecular acid rounds, they SHRED elite units, 2+ to wound was good enough, but if you get that ap 1/2, things die real fast.

while they are pretty solid, a few problems I've found:

1) even when it's paired with stasis rounds, you only hit on 3+ against the same WS. a minor flaw, but still a weakness. And since majority WS is a thing, you need to hit over half of the other guys elite squad with your 1 or 2 combi-stasis rounds. (unless you're backing them up with ML support squads

2) plasma repeaters can't be taken on bikes AND they only have a 6" range if they moved

3) I'm kinda amazing at the shenanigans of the molecular rounds as a 2+ to wound paired with a ~66% chance to ignore marine armour is a bit silly (anyone else noticing a bit of a disparity from old legions to new ones? i.e. most of the newer stuff has been better base than older stuff?) but as a DG player, it's a threat, but it's mitigated by the free FNP

4) Ravenwing stole my DG shtick with rad grenades (and you want them to take more from DG in the forms of scythes. for shame ) it's a really strong RoW, though has the problem of ONLY bikes for troops

5) Ironwing is pretty fun lookin', though the tank tax is rather heavy

stupid book 6 legions being overly strong for the most part....... poor white scars

 Farseer Anath'lan wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
Yeah, I'm not a DA player, but their rites and gear look awfully good. You can't make judgments based only on a legion's LA rules or their special units.

Besides, something one side chooses out of the CAL can be a bigger influence on a given game than anything legion-related anyway.

Well, they were discussing LA rules only, and based on that, the DA are sparse and not very good indeed.
I also disagree that DA are Jack of All Trades. Their rites are good, but extremely restrictive and specialised.
Their wargear looks good, but is too restrictive and some is not-quite-good enough.
I'll also say DA are not top tier. Alright, but nowhere near.

I'll stop derailing now.

I wasn't arguing what "tier" they occupy. They just seem pretty good to me, with plenty that you can win with.

Putting 30K legions on "tiers" involves a lot of hair-splitting, if you ask me. They're all pretty capable, especially after book 6.

What does any of the roughly last page of this thread have to do with Ultramarines?

 Brennonjw wrote:


3) I'm kinda amazing at the shenanigans of the molecular rounds as a 2+ to wound paired with a ~66% chance to ignore marine armour is a bit silly (anyone else noticing a bit of a disparity from old legions to new ones? i.e. most of the newer stuff has been better base than older stuff?) but as a DG player, it's a threat, but it's mitigated by the free FNP

Yes I would, Its great to see all this Unique Wargear everyone has access to. Mean while the Sons of Horus only really get one piece of "Unique" Wargear and it's shared with the Alpha Legion. I do like their rules adjustments in AoDL though. For my Raven Guard, I'm pretty happy with what they have. A Special Sniper couldnt have hurt though, but really that's just wish listing.

4) Ravenwing stole my DG shtick with rad grenades (and you want them to take more from DG in the forms of scythes. for shame ) it's a really strong RoW, though has the problem of ONLY bikes for troops

Well, considering that the Dark Angels are the First Legion, I would argue that the Death Guard stole their Rad Grenade shtick. Which mass issue of them was probably first done by the Dreadwing, who I bet the DG ripped off whole sale

5) Ironwing is pretty fun lookin', though the tank tax is rather heavy

Hell it is, makes me want to make a Tank Army (which is something I never want to do). Blitzkrieg Dark Angel edition. Also just take some cheaper tanks to fill out the ranks.

@Formosa, why would the Volkite Chargers be wounding on 2+? If you are talking about the Iron Wing protocols it doesn't affect Heavy or Assault Weapons. Which is dumb, because I always thought Volkite would be good for world scouring.

harumph! DG does it better DA just needed to steal ideas from other legions 'cause they are so boring in the fluff... yeah, that excuse works

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:


3) I'm kinda amazing at the shenanigans of the molecular rounds as a 2+ to wound paired with a ~66% chance to ignore marine armour is a bit silly (anyone else noticing a bit of a disparity from old legions to new ones? i.e. most of the newer stuff has been better base than older stuff?) but as a DG player, it's a threat, but it's mitigated by the free FNP

Yes I would, Its great to see all this Unique Wargear everyone has access to. Mean while the Sons of Horus only really get one piece of "Unique" Wargear and it's shared with the Alpha Legion. I do like their rules adjustments in AoDL though. For my Raven Guard, I'm pretty happy with what they have. A Special Sniper couldnt have hurt though, but really that's just wish listing.

4) Ravenwing stole my DG shtick with rad grenades (and you want them to take more from DG in the forms of scythes. for shame ) it's a really strong RoW, though has the problem of ONLY bikes for troops

Well, considering that the Dark Angels are the First Legion, I would argue that the Death Guard stole their Rad Grenade shtick. Which mass issue of them was probably first done by the Dreadwing, who I bet the DG ripped off whole sale

5) Ironwing is pretty fun lookin', though the tank tax is rather heavy

Hell it is, makes me want to make a Tank Army (which is something I never want to do). Blitzkrieg Dark Angel edition. Also just take some cheaper tanks to fill out the ranks.

@Formosa, why would the Volkite Chargers be wounding on 2+? If you are talking about the Iron Wing protocols it doesn't affect Heavy or Assault Weapons. Which is dumb, because I always thought Volkite would be good for world scouring.

You sure, I'll check but I'm sure it's, rapid fire, assault, salvo, but not heavy, always worth double checking!