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Community,

Necrons are my weakness...I just can't figure out what is the best way to defeat them. So I am here asking for advice on the best way to keep them at bay with correct units, wargear, and general tactics. I'm open to all suggestions but would like to keep a theme to my Iron Hands. The points for my couple of games will be 2000pts. Thanks!

Mr. Raynor

I've been thrashed by Necrons many times myself and I'll be watching this thread closely for ideas. I can only imagine how few models actually come off the table in a Necrons/Iron Hands match-up. My last battle I was nearly tabled and managed to remove fewer than 2 dozen Necron models, and your chapter has basically the same reputation.

Do you have the models for gladius?

I do Have the models to field a Gladius Strike Force with full battle company but am looking forward to utilizing the new Iron Hands supplement in the Angels of Death book. I have enjoyed the success of the battle company but would like to fix it up and look forward to also fluffing it up while staying semi-competitive. Not sure if this helps or not :/

A gorgons chain chapter master with fist/claw/artificer on a bike should be solid vs Necrons, throw him in a bike command squad with 4 stormshields 2 powerfists and apoth. CM will be sporting 3+ fnp (or 2+ with the new book i think?) the rest 4+/3+.

Generally either obsec spam or assault list do well vs necrons.

Even terminators on foot are pretty solid vs crons. The main issue with Iron Hands is the lack of str 10, which really helps vs wraiths and other T5 models. If you are open to allies, grab a single inquisitor with rad grenades so you drop their toughness down to 4, that will more than double your powerfist units dps.

Are bikes something used for Iron Hands in their tactics. I have done that before but was just wondering if they actually use bikes?

 Malik_Raynor wrote:
Are bikes something used for Iron Hands in their tactics. I have done that before but was just wondering if they actually use bikes?

They use bikes. Its just not a trademark piece of kit like it would be for other chapters (WS in particular).

Looking at the pieces of the Medusa Strike Force that have leaked so far, I think you can build an awesome IH list around a demi-company and a libby conclave that would give Necrons fits. I'd run three medium sized tactical squads all with a libby. This gives them a decent assault capability with a force stave against necron troop choices and lets you really exploit the FNP benefit. Probably add in some grav cents as well and maybe HB or MM bikes to round out the demi-company. Then I'd do a strike force command with smash fether and a tooled up command squad. This gives you a core with lots of FNP, decent shooting and a decent assault punch. Round out with aux of choice.

I was planning on starting a Amoured Task Force as my Core + Command Support with Chapter House and friends. Not sure about other Aux maybe Iron Guardians x2..thoughts?

Remtek wrote:
A gorgons chain chapter master with fist/claw/artificer on a bike should be solid vs Necrons, throw him in a bike command squad with 4 stormshields 2 powerfists and apoth. CM will be sporting 3+ fnp (or 2+ with the new book i think?) the rest 4+/3+.

Generally either obsec spam or assault list do well vs necrons.

Even terminators on foot are pretty solid vs crons. The main issue with Iron Hands is the lack of str 10, which really helps vs wraiths and other T5 models. If you are open to allies, grab a single inquisitor with rad grenades so you drop their toughness down to 4, that will more than double your powerfist units dps.

Or fish for the enfeeble in Biomancy, when cast on Wraiths or destroyers, your missile lauchers and lascannons will kill them way easier. While cast on warriors, your assault cannons will kill them as they are now only have a 5+ (or 6+ without Decrion) RP that could save them.

This is what I came up with this morning for my first final game tomorrow. I do not know if I am playing Marines or Necrons but would still like your opinions on the list. Is the Librarius Conclave worth it or would a Raptor Wing better suit my list?

Core
Armored Task Force – 390pts
Techmarine – 65pts
Predator – 75pts
Vindicator – Stormbolter – 125pts
Vindicator – Stormbolter – 125pts

Command
Strike Force Command – 390pts
Captain “The Hound” – Bike, Gorgon Chain, AA, & Axe of Medusa – 200pts
Command Squad – Bikes, Apoth, Champ, +2 SS, & +1 PW – 190pts

Librarius Conclave – 265pts
Librarian – Bike & ML2 – 110pts (Command Squad)
Librarian – ML2 – 90pts (Skyhammer Devastator Squad)
Librarian – 65pts (Iron Guardians Squad)

Auxiliary
Skyhammer Annihilation Force – 430pts
Assault Squad – JP & F – 90pts
Assault Squad – JP & F – 90pts
Devastator Squad - +2 HB & Drop Pod – 125pts
Devastator Squad - +2 MM & Drop Pod – 125pts

Iron Guardians - 230pts
Tactical Squad – Meltagun, Combi-M & Drop Pod – 125pts
Dreadnought – Drop Pod – 135pts

Iron Guardians - 265pts
Tactical Squad – Flamer, Combi-F & Drop Pod – 115pts
Dreadnought – TL HF, HF & Drop Pod – 150pts

Heavy Bolters are literally the worst weapon you could choose for a Skyhammer. You should actually spend points for it if you're actually committed to running it.

And the Axe of Medusa is a worse version of a power fist (it's only str 6 unless you roll a 6 to wound, then it's str 8...)

Heavy bolters on the skyhammer can work; the main focus of the Devastators are to help your assault squads get into the relative safety of combat. And their high number of shots and ap 4 will help mow those warriors down a bit.

That was what I was think running into a bunch of warriors and using heavy bolters to ignore their amour saves only allowing them to rule for FNP.

Except the Warriors will either have cover or be in an Ark. Heavy Bolters are garbage and you're using terrible justification.

If you want to use Skyhammer, you need the points to commit to it. We're talking Multi-Melta and Grav Cannon. Nothing else will substitute.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except the Warriors will either have cover or be in an Ark. Heavy Bolters are garbage and you're using terrible justification.

If you want to use Skyhammer, you need the points to commit to it. We're talking Multi-Melta and Grav Cannon. Nothing else will substitute.

Ok... while I agree about using those weapons on the Arks, a warrior will get the same cover save against grav and multi meltas, so that's irrelevant to his selection of weapons for his Skyhammer.

My recommendation, do what you think you have the points for, but at least have one squad of multimeltas.

You're only taking one squad of Multi-Melta. You're not pointing it at Warriors.
The Grav Cannon is going to do more for the points.

Also, 5 marines without power weapons aren't going to be killing anything either. You need to look at the skyhammer one of 3 ways IMHO;

- 2x Min assault squads as tax for 2x relentless grav devs
- Base bolter devs (with maybe a couple of heavy bolters for easy pinning access on stuff anywhere on the board) and maxed out ASM with evicerators and a power weapon to chop stuff up in CC after they've been pinned (or at least can't fire overwatch)
- Maxed ASM, 4x Grav cannon, 4x Multi Melta to really get the most out of it since 20 ASM with evicerators and power weapons are actually a threat to many things if they haven't been shot up before they get their re-rollable charge off. Maxed devs too for combat squads and bolter the ASM targets and shoot the heavies at something worth shooting bulk heavy weapons at. Like making a wraithknight go away.

Half arsing it really doesn't cut it and is just a waste of points.

So while I understand that a lot of people play very competitive...I like to be semi-competitive while staying try to the chapter origins. This local final four tournament doesnt have a lot money on the line but gives some in store credit but not much. I am first and foremost here to have fun and be creative with my list building. Anyways, I have revised the list and taken the Librarius Conclave out to replace with some more fluff but tactical units. As always suggestions are welcome! Thanks for feedback so far

Core
Armored Task Force – 500pts
Techmarine – Auspex – 70pts (Going with MM Dev Squad)
Thunderfire Cannon – 100pts
Predator – Stormbolter – 80pts
Vindicator – Stormbolter – 125pts
Vindicator – Stormbolter – 125pts

Command
Strike Force Command – 400pts
Captain “The Hound” – Bike, Gorgon Chain, Digital Weapons AA, & PF – 210pts
Command Squad – Bikes, Apoth, Champ, +2 SS, & +1 PW – 190pts

Auxiliary
Skyhammer Annihilation Force – 450pts
Assault Squad – JP & F – 90pts
Assault Squad – JP & F – 90pts
Devastator Squad - +3 HB & Drop Pod – 135pts
Devastator Squad - +3 MM & Drop Pod – 135pts

Honored Ancients – 120pts
Dreadnought – TL Autocannon & Autocannon – 120pts (Placed in Ruins)

Iron Guardians – 250pts
Tactical Squad – Meltagun & Drop Pod – 115pts
Dreadnought – Drop Pod – 135pts

Iron Guardians – 280pts
Tactical Squad – Flamer & Drop Pod – 110pts
Ironclad Dreadnought – Hurricane Bolter, HF & Drop Pod – 170pts

I don't think semi-competitive is going to cut it vs "We never die" Necrons. There is a steep, steep drop off from marines' good stuff to the stuff that BA are stuck with. BA get heavy bolters, so I know they are junk.

Ok so there is a theme going with the majority of the replies. If I don't dumb a lot of points into the Skyhammer then don't bring it at all? What would you replace it with?

If you are playing marines without skyhammer or gladius then i guess i'd say gravcentstar. Otherwise you are kinda playing ba +1 and we all know how that works.

 Malik_Raynor wrote:
Ok so there is a theme going with the majority of the replies. If I don't dumb a lot of points into the Skyhammer then don't bring it at all? What would you replace it with?

That's because you're not making use of the useful things Skyhammer grants. Me? I'd do full 10 Devastators, one with 4 Grav Cannons and one with 4 Multi-Melta, and Combat Squad where necessary to hit with two weapons each on a target, and charge where necessary.

You can even send the asm to tarpit wraiths to keep them away from your smashbane.

Also, regarding the Axe Of Medusa, I'm actually a fan. While it isn't hitting as hard as a Fist against certain targets, it hits more often, and more importantly is cheap. Any vehicles can just be immobilized by Grav and you can hit the juicy targets inside. That said, the ID against T4 with the fist being more reliable is pretty nice.

So I finished my game this afternoon and as you can guess I ended up losing. We played objectives and I never received a single "Secure Objective" card with nothing but kill this in the shooting/assault phase. I also ended rolling very poorly and like I expected the Necron player lost about 20 models out of 60ish. The list is below...

Overlord
Destroyer Lord
10 Lynchguard (These guys basically got to roll three times for every wound!)

3 Destroyers
3 Destroyers
3 Destroyers

3 Heavy Destroyers

3 Bike thingys

20 Warriors
10 Warriors
10 Warriors with Ghostark (Made jink saves like a champ)

10 Immortals with Flyer (Never made it on the board)

10 Lychguard seems like overkill.

Hmm, based off this list you're obviously gonna need a full-on Skyhammer.
Does the Iron Guardians actually DO anything? Otherwise, you're just grabbing more Tacticals you don't really want.

 Malik_Raynor wrote:
So I finished my game this afternoon and as you can guess I ended up losing. We played objectives and I never received a single "Secure Objective" card with nothing but kill this in the shooting/assault phase. I also ended rolling very poorly and like I expected the Necron player lost about 20 models out of 60ish. The list is below...

Overlord
Destroyer Lord
10 Lynchguard (These guys basically got to roll three times for every wound!)

3 Destroyers
3 Destroyers
3 Destroyers

3 Heavy Destroyers

3 Bike thingys

20 Warriors
10 Warriors
10 Warriors with Ghostark (Made jink saves like a champ)

10 Immortals with Flyer (Never made it on the board)

Your opponent is running a pretty strong list (decurion + destroyer cult), but it has some significant weaknesses. The biggest is cc. Other than the lychstar (which is crazy durable and can deal decent damage) everything is fairly weak in close combat. You're not going to win all of the combats outright, but you can tarpit the destroyers, tomb blades (bikes), and warriors to reduce their effectiveness. You will need at least two reliable tarpit units, one for the lychstar and the other for the big blob of warriors, which will be very difficult to take down. Tacticals will do for most of the other units, especially the destroyers and tomb blades. Make sure you have the firepower to pop the ghost ark, once it's dead the warriors will be less mobile and a bit less resilient. You need to prioritize the destroyers first, the heavy destroyers will pop your transports with ease and the marines will be cleaned up by the regular destroyers. The lychguard will also be dangerous if they can get into combat with the right units. The best way to tarpit them is with a 3++, since there will be a lot of ap3 and probably quite a few ap2 attacks in there. The immortals and night scythe will be a pain in the late game, but you can always tarpit them like warriors (they are more durable but just as impotent in cc). If you can take out the destroyers and tarpit the rest of his army, you can exploit your ObSec to score lots of objectives. It sounds like you had pretty bad luck with the objectives and jink saves in your first game, while your opponent had the misfortune of not having 300 points worth of models arrive. I think with the right strategy, you can beat this list.

I have tried the new Iron Hands decurion once so far. It was against the Salamander decurion so it was not put to the test against a really scary army, but it worked well.

What I found worked stupidly well was double smash bros.

You either the battle company or the stormlance company (either work, but I used the normal company due to point limits) and took a command choice of strike force command. Due to the new rules you can use both relics from CSM and the Iron Hands specific ones in the same detachment as long as its not on the same model.

So I had in the strike force command smashy with the chain and his command squad bodyguard (apothecary of course) and in the demi company I had smash bane with the shield eternal and his bodyguard command squad.

Those smash bros just cruised everywhere killing everything they saw. My opponent could not deal with them at all. You have a base 2 + FNP Smashy (5+ from apoth, + 1 for CT, +1 for decurion, +1 for chain) unkillable god and his slightly weaker brother brining a 3+ FNP base. Both have 2+ armor, 3+ invuln and EW.

At one point Smash bane was alone and surrounded by a librarius conclave and 20 tactical/dev marines. He was slowly killing all of them by himself. At his weakest he still had a 2+, 3++, 5+++ save.

So any Iron Hand list I run is going to use at least one smashy as he is just so good in the new decurion it hurts to not bring this god. His only weakness is getting tied up, but you can probably avoid that easily enough.

Against Necrons I would have the super smash bros lead the charge and show the Necrons the meaning of being hard to kill.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I have tried the new Iron Hands decurion once so far. It was against the Salamander decurion so it was not put to the test against a really scary army, but it worked well.

What I found worked stupidly well was double smash bros.

You either the battle company or the stormlance company (either work, but I used the normal company due to point limits) and took a command choice of strike force command. Due to the new rules you can use both relics from CSM and the Iron Hands specific ones in the same detachment as long as its not on the same model.

So I had in the strike force command smashy with the chain and his command squad bodyguard (apothecary of course) and in the demi company I had smash bane with the shield eternal and his bodyguard command squad.

Those smash bros just cruised everywhere killing everything they saw. My opponent could not deal with them at all. You have a base 2 + FNP Smashy (5+ from apoth, + 1 for CT, +1 for decurion, +1 for chain) unkillable god and his slightly weaker brother brining a 3+ FNP base. Both have 2+ armor, 3+ invuln and EW.

At one point Smash bane was alone and surrounded by a librarius conclave and 20 tactical/dev marines. He was slowly killing all of them by himself. At his weakest he still had a 2+, 3++, 5+++ save.

So any Iron Hand list I run is going to use at least one smashy as he is just so good in the new decurion it hurts to not bring this god. His only weakness is getting tied up, but you can probably avoid that easily enough.

Against Necrons I would have the super smash bros lead the charge and show the Necrons the meaning of being hard to kill.

I never realized how tough he would be... Wow. just.... wow.

The command squad as a whole is very resilient. It took about 20 wounds to take down just one model (3+\3++\3+++ FNP).