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Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





United States

Haven't seen anyone mention anything about the Guard as of yet.

I think there's some quick fixes that would be in order for us lowly grunts of the Imperium.

Certain orders need a bit of a reworking. I think something should be done about the Lasgun in the current meta. For being the Mechanized Army of choice at one time, the whole benefit of Tank Squadrons seems to be taken from us.

And there's a boatload of units that deserve a point shift/reworking to be usable in play.


I think Orks, as mentioned, absolutely need a few fixes to them. I find it interesting that the army lacks a simple invulnerable save. If that's the angle we're going, fine, but I'd up the FnP capabilities of the Orks (Minus just the Painboy). Also I find it hilarious you can only put one relic on a model, yet other armies are walking relic glitterbombs.

Chaos needs a huge points overhaul which is going to be somewhat difficult with all the supplemental books and books that have similar or like-units (Khorne Berserkers in mind).

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 Walnuts wrote:
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Made in us
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Denison, Iowa

The Gorkanaut would be good with a points reduction, but honestly I'd rather see it with a buff. It would be so epic to see a Gorkanaut be able to stand up to an Imperial Knight and slug it out with one, with either side having a good chance at being the winner. I'd like to see the Gorkanaut be slightly worse in shooting than a knight, but slightly better in close combat. Definitely make it a superheavy, even if it stays as a heavy support choice.

The same is true of DeafDreads and Kans. Do for them what they did for Space marine dreadnoughts. A Deff Dread with 5 attacks (plus bunus for extra arms) would be something I'd want to field. Giving an extra attack to Kans would make a unit of 5 something even dedicated combat specialists would avoid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chaos Marines.... Ouch, thinking of fixing them gives me a headache. While they are about on par with Imperial Guard for amount of needed fixes, they just seem harder to fix without becoming "spiky imperials"

Marks and cult troopers need to mean something. Also Cult troops need to be upgrades to other units like in the 3.5 codex. I want Berserker Bikers, Rubric Terminators, and Death Guard Cultists dang it!

Internal and external balance needs help. Right now they basically have none. It looks like possessed will never have rules good enough to see them on the table.

As for the models, The Good Ones include the Heldrake, Dinobots, Helbrute, Terminators, Possessed, Cultists, most of the Character models (terminator Lord, etc.), Landraider, Rhino, and Warp Talons.

The ones that need replaced are cult troops, Havoks, Mutilators/obliterators, basic marines, and bikers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/18 20:32:44


 
   
Made in ca
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Lost in a blizzard, somewhere near Toronto

 cuda1179 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chaos Marines.... Ouch, thinking of fixing them gives me a headache. While they are about on par with Imperial Guard for amount of needed fixes, they just seem harder to fix without becoming "spiky imperials"

Marks and cult troopers need to mean something. Also Cult troops need to be upgrades to other units like in the 3.5 codex. I want Berserker Bikers, Rubric Terminators, and Death Guard Cultists dang it!

Internal and external balance needs help. Right now they basically have none. It looks like possessed will never have rules good enough to see them on the table.

People need to accept that at their core, Chaos Marines really are just Space Marines gone evil. Their basic equipments & options damn well should be mirrors of each other. otherwise all we really are is Space Marines with 0 special rules to make us function, just so Loyalists don't get their feeling hurt by having a similar army to them...

Look at the history of the Land Raider to prove just how jaw-dropingly stupid Chaos designs have become;
Way back in the day, GW realised that the Land Raider simply didn't work at all, due to how the core rules did not support in any way a heavy transport that also functioned as a main battle tank. So, the Power of the Machine Spirit rule was errata'ed into place, as a way to make a transport with multiple & vastly different weapons work within the confines of the rules.
Likewise, Terminators were hot garbage back in 3rd edition, as everything of note simply murdered them. So, GW gave them a 5++ in order to help boost their playability.

Shortly afterwards, the 3.5ed Chaos codex was released, and at that time, the Chaos Land Raider, which is functionally the exact same ******* thing as the Loyalist one, was given the same PotMS rule, but simply re-named as the Infernal Device.
Why is this? Because without that same rule, the Chaos version would have stayed entirely unplayable!

Flash forwards to the great gutting of Chaos, and GW decided that in order to simple make the Chaos Land Raider different from the Loyalist version, the ID rule was outright removed, thereby dooming the Chaos vehicle to becoming an unplayable mess, which still doesn't even function at a basic level!

Chaos Marines are simply what happens when you force elite, points heavy models to play without the benefit of proper supportive rules. Until GW pulls their collective heads outa their poop chutes, and realises that Chaos Marines are really just a more extreme diversion of what are functionally still basic Space Marines, we're going to continue to be steaming monkey gak.


 cuda1179 wrote:
As for the models, The Good Ones include the Heldrake, Dinobots, Helbrute, Terminators, Possessed, Cultists, most of the Character models (terminator Lord, etc.), Landraider, Rhino, and Warp Talons.

The ones that need replaced are cult troops, Havoks, Mutilators/obliterators, basic marines, and bikers.

No. The entire model line with the exception of the Helbrute, Dinobots & Helturkey need to be purged, and re-designed from the ground up.

Our Terminator kit is easily the single worst plastic kit in the entire 40k model line, as it comes with maaaaaybe 30% of the unit's basic options... Actually, I'd challenge anyone to show me another plastic kit that can't even build the basic codex weapon load out for each squad member! (go one, I dare you!)

 
   
Made in us
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Denison, Iowa

I agree that Terminator need more parts in the box. That is easily solved with an additional weapons spru. I still think the Landraider and Rhino are fine. The Warp talons are still good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I agree that there needs to be a return of the Infernal device, or at least something along those lines to make the Chaos Landraider work. Personally, I'd like a deamon possession rule as an upgrade. All weapons fire independently and at full BS, but a small chance of hitting your own guys.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/18 21:54:25


 
   
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 cuda1179 wrote:
Technically I'd put Tyranids here too, but really, if you just reprint their codex to include all the "extras" like the drop pod, new creatures, new Zoanthrope options, etc. this would almost make them playable.

I'd like some of what you're smoking. Tyrannocytes and Zoanthropes in competitive Tyranid lists? lol

Codex: Flyrant need a complete overhaul, badly. Imo Nids are were old Necrons were, back when they could be phased out. Tyranids army wide special rule is to commit suicide after you kill the dudes with the shoot-me-first sign. So players take 5 Flyrants with mucolids for troops to bypass the punishing 'flavourful' rule. Yes the faction has one competitive build, but it's as one dimensional as it gets.
   
Made in se
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As a main guard player I've so far run a pretty steady 50%/50% win lose ratio in 7th so I don't really see the issue with guards. Maybe I'm not playing against good enough opponents but still. Ran one tournament but have mostly been doing friendly gaming.

I can see how the rough riders and ogryns are simply terrible for their points costs, as are some of the russ variants, but I don't see this cry out for a complete overhaul some people have mentioned. Is it the lack of formations? The low perfomrnace of some units? The overall lack of cheese? When I win it's (almost always) because of objectives, not kills, and objectives seems to be what guards excell at. Also I adhore the voice of command rules and the platoon layouts, it really helps giving it a unique feel.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/19 09:35:20


His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary. 
   
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London

@Experiment 626


Firstly I completely sympathise with the plight of CSM players. I play orks and my most regular opponents play CSM. CSM rules need overhauling and their models need a lot of love. I'm with you 100%.
But:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Our Terminator kit is easily the single worst plastic kit in the entire 40k model line, as it comes with maaaaaybe 30% of the unit's basic options... Actually, I'd challenge anyone to show me another plastic kit that can't even build the basic codex weapon load out for each squad member! (go one, I dare you!)


Ork lootas/burnas. Only 4 lootas or burnas per box and a mek. Thankfully we can throw a bigshoota on the mek and he is a decent stand-in for a loota. I was furious when I bought the box though.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/04/19 09:42:00


 
   
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UK

Also I find it hilarious you can only put one relic on a model, yet other armies are walking relic glitterbombs


Yeah that's a major irritation for older codexes....

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Sioux Falls, SD

Blood Angels aren't that difficult to fix. If they received a book the size of Angels of Death that they could split with Grey Knights (Dark Angels and Space Wolves could split a book), I am sure they could make it work.

Largely, they would need to up the Dreadnought attacks, increase Scout BS/WS, and add vehicle squadrons. Baal Predators need to be able to be taken in Squadrons and I think their special rule should give Scout back. The Overcharged Engines should be made free and included on every tank that can take them. Several units need to have a price reduction to match C:SM.

Formations aren't that hard. They need a Strike Force Detachment, a Battle Demi-Company, and some formations that play to their strengths. One of the big things they need is the ability to assault out of deep strike basically on any unit that can deep strike.

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 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Tyranids are in a weird place in that I think they could be given a quickfix if they just printed all of the formations and rules in one book. However that only makes them playable, and a lot of units still need far more massive tweaks (Warriors, the two new MCs, genestealers, etc...).



Tyranids need a huge overhaul. Some units only need a few changes at most, some need more than that and theres a few that need a complete redesign. Shadow in the Warp and Synapse both need to be completely re-worked and our Psychic Powers and Warlord Traits are gak, I don't mind us not having access to Biomancy but we really need at least 2 disciplines, one for attack/debuffs and another for defence/buffs. Given the amount of changes needed I'm not sure where that leaves us on the formations since they'd all end up working differently.
   
Made in ca
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Lost in a blizzard, somewhere near Toronto

 Moolet wrote:
@Experiment 626


Firstly I completely sympathise with the plight of CSM players. I play orks and my most regular opponents play CSM. CSM rules need overhauling and their models need a lot of love. I'm with you 100%.
But:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Our Terminator kit is easily the single worst plastic kit in the entire 40k model line, as it comes with maaaaaybe 30% of the unit's basic options... Actually, I'd challenge anyone to show me another plastic kit that can't even build the basic codex weapon load out for each squad member! (go one, I dare you!)


Ork lootas/burnas. Only 4 lootas or burnas per box and a mek. Thankfully we can throw a bigshoota on the mek and he is a decent stand-in for a loota. I was furious when I bought the box though.

Fair enough, though at least the Mek is decently useful, and/or just adding a few extra bits can easily kitbash a 5th Loota. (Burnas are kind gak out of luck though...)

Still pales in comparison to how outright unusable our Termie kit is. I mean, we only get 3 Combi-bolters/Power weapon sets, and even then, it's 2 Power axes + a Power maul!
Never mind that the kit is outright missing even a single component for;
- Power sword
- Power lance/glaive
- Lightning claw/pair of claws
- Combi-Plasma
- Icons

It actually easier to build a termie squad by simply buying 3-4 of the Termie Lord/Sorc kits! You're still missing our on the Combi-plasma entirely, (and only get a Combi-melta, but who uses single shot flamers besides crazy Tzeentch or Khorne players anyways?!), but at least you get the ability to build a functional termiecide unit of Combi-Meltas, or Lightning claw MoK/MoS crazies.

It's really a shame GW gaked up the kit so bad, because on the whole, the Termies are one of our best looking kits in terms of the overall model details.
I'd be overjoyed if we simply got a re-working of the kit that kept the main bodies/heads/shoulder pads, and instead moved all the weapon options onto a new set of sprues that at least contained;
5x Combi-bolter, designed in a way similar to the Tactical Squad combi-weapon. Then add 2x components each for melta/Flamer/Plasma, + 5 basic Bolters
2x Power sword/axe/maul each
4x Power fist
2x Chainfist
3x Pair of Lightning claws
Put the Heavy flamer + Reaper cannon onto the main body frame.

At least that kind of kit becomes completely viable. (Icons honestly need to be removed, and their rules just turned into a basic upgrade instead of being so easily sniped out)



 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Blood Angels aren't that difficult to fix. If they received a book the size of Angels of Death that they could split with Grey Knights (Dark Angels and Space Wolves could split a book), I am sure they could make it work.

Largely, they would need to up the Dreadnought attacks, increase Scout BS/WS, and add vehicle squadrons. Baal Predators need to be able to be taken in Squadrons and I think their special rule should give Scout back. The Overcharged Engines should be made free and included on every tank that can take them. Several units need to have a price reduction to match C:SM.

Formations aren't that hard. They need a Strike Force Detachment, a Battle Demi-Company, and some formations that play to their strengths. One of the big things they need is the ability to assault out of deep strike basically on any unit that can deep strike.

Lol! No! Please, just no.

The very last thing this game needs is an entire army that can automatically bypass shooting in general and auto-win upon their deployment!
Between the very large amount of Jump pack units, and/or everything else that can just take Drop Pods for ultra safe deployment right on top of your opponent's army, BA's would be hilarious broken as gak.

Assault out of Deep Strike is just too powerful on the whole. No one - not even Daemons (who let's face it, are THE fluffiest Deep Strike focused army), should not have such an ability.

 
   
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness





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 cuda1179 wrote:
As for the complete overhauls, I'd say Imperial Guard, Orks, and Chaos Marines are the prime candidates.
None of those are even close to the level of complete overhaul that Sisters of Battle need.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
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My blog
 
   
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 jreilly89 wrote:
I'm surprised so many think Orks need a little overhaul. Honestly, they're a quick fix army.

-reduce points on some models (like Kanz and Deff Dreads, too pricey for how easy they die)
-change Cybork Body back to its 5++
-get rid of Mob Rule, or make it less punishing
-give more characters WAAAGGH!! or give them WAAAGGH!!! bonuses, ala the Dakkajet


Except it should be
-Reduce points on ALL Ork models
-Change ALL rule changes back to the 4th edition codex, (like Deff Rollas, Mob Rule)
-Change Mob Rule to something good or get rid of it and give Nobz LD8
-Give ALL Characters Waaagh, make the Waaagh rule better, Bring back the old benefit for the Dakkajet, you know when people actually bothered to take it.

Or conversely you could make 1 change to the Ork codex and it would make everything balanced and fair for ork players. Powerklaws are a free upgrade for any model in the entire army. There now we are good.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
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I'm pretty sure the space wolf terminator kit only comes with a single power weapon, and power weapons and storm bolters are their basic weapon loadout?


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"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
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 Melissia wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
As for the complete overhauls, I'd say Imperial Guard, Orks, and Chaos Marines are the prime candidates.
None of those are even close to the level of complete overhaul that Sisters of Battle need.


Sisters don't just need an overhaul, they need a full re-release.

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 N.I.B. wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
Technically I'd put Tyranids here too, but really, if you just reprint their codex to include all the "extras" like the drop pod, new creatures, new Zoanthrope options, etc. this would almost make them playable.

I'd like some of what you're smoking. Tyrannocytes and Zoanthropes in competitive Tyranid lists? lol

Codex: Flyrant need a complete overhaul, badly. Imo Nids are were old Necrons were, back when they could be phased out. Tyranids army wide special rule is to commit suicide after you kill the dudes with the shoot-me-first sign. So players take 5 Flyrants with mucolids for troops to bypass the punishing 'flavourful' rule. Yes the faction has one competitive build, but it's as one dimensional as it gets.


This^ !!! Tyranids need a major overhaul and that means looking at the philosophy behind how the army operates, what are powers/units supposed to do, etc. SitW needs overhauling, synapse and instinctive behaviour need overhauling, Far too many units/biomorphs have poor rules/stats/point costs. The 6th ed nid dex was a terrible product the day released and was basically a copy/paste of lots of the 5th edition dex without addressing the major problems with that dex. Then we move to 7th ed and things got worse with so many changes to the game - the crappy dex did not age well at all. As NIB said to compete with the other big armies tyranids are really codex: flyrant
   
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USA

 EnTyme wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
As for the complete overhauls, I'd say Imperial Guard, Orks, and Chaos Marines are the prime candidates.
None of those are even close to the level of complete overhaul that Sisters of Battle need.


Sisters don't just need an overhaul, they need a full re-release.

IE the most overhauly overhaul that ever overhauled.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
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My blog
 
   
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 Melissia wrote:
 EnTyme wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
As for the complete overhauls, I'd say Imperial Guard, Orks, and Chaos Marines are the prime candidates.
None of those are even close to the level of complete overhaul that Sisters of Battle need.


Sisters don't just need an overhaul, they need a full re-release.

IE the most overhauly overhaul that ever overhauled.


And if they ever get around to it, I'll be one of the first in line to start a Sisters army. They have some of my favorite fluff in the game, but I'm not playing the ridiculous prices I see on ebay for a metal army that doesn't feel complete in the current meta.

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Bodt

Putting all the existing Tyranid formations and units into the codex won't make them any more playable, it just makes it more convenient to find rules. They're still the exact same rules you can use already.

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 KharnsRightHand wrote:
Putting all the existing Tyranid formations and units into the codex won't make them any more playable, it just makes it more convenient to find rules. They're still the exact same rules you can use already.


Two things Kharn,
1: Stop making sense, it is against GW policy
2: You aren't allowed to complain that your army is garbage, it makes the SM/Tau/Eldar armies feel less excited when they table you.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in de
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SemperMortis wrote:

2: You aren't allowed to complain that your army is garbage, it makes the SM/Tau/Eldar armies feel less excited when they table you.


thats a pretty toxic thought. I prefer games that are not a one sided battle. This to say i play Tau since 4th. Edition.

But honestly... if anyone comes up with a talking like this i see no reason to hold back in any way. At least i am kind enough to allow him to whine with reason about his weak army.


In any other cases i try to get my list and such tweaked in a way both of us have fun.
   
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 _ghost_ wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:

2: You aren't allowed to complain that your army is garbage, it makes the SM/Tau/Eldar armies feel less excited when they table you.


thats a pretty toxic thought. I prefer games that are not a one sided battle. This to say i play Tau since 4th. Edition.

But honestly... if anyone comes up with a talking like this i see no reason to hold back in any way. At least i am kind enough to allow him to whine with reason about his weak army.


In any other cases i try to get my list and such tweaked in a way both of us have fun.


Shhh, remember eldar and tau players are TFG powergamers no matter what they use /s lol
   
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 cosmicsoybean wrote:
 _ghost_ wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:

2: You aren't allowed to complain that your army is garbage, it makes the SM/Tau/Eldar armies feel less excited when they table you.


thats a pretty toxic thought. I prefer games that are not a one sided battle. This to say i play Tau since 4th. Edition.

But honestly... if anyone comes up with a talking like this i see no reason to hold back in any way. At least i am kind enough to allow him to whine with reason about his weak army.


In any other cases i try to get my list and such tweaked in a way both of us have fun.


Shhh, remember eldar and tau players are TFG powergamers no matter what they use /s lol


How's that axe you've been grinding? Must be pretty sharp by now

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 cosmicsoybean wrote:
 _ghost_ wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:

2: You aren't allowed to complain that your army is garbage, it makes the SM/Tau/Eldar armies feel less excited when they table you.


thats a pretty toxic thought. I prefer games that are not a one sided battle. This to say i play Tau since 4th. Edition.

But honestly... if anyone comes up with a talking like this i see no reason to hold back in any way. At least i am kind enough to allow him to whine with reason about his weak army.


In any other cases i try to get my list and such tweaked in a way both of us have fun.


Shhh, remember eldar and tau players are TFG powergamers no matter what they use /s lol


That's actually not too far off for the have-not codices.
   
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Martel732 wrote:
 cosmicsoybean wrote:
 _ghost_ wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:

2: You aren't allowed to complain that your army is garbage, it makes the SM/Tau/Eldar armies feel less excited when they table you.


thats a pretty toxic thought. I prefer games that are not a one sided battle. This to say i play Tau since 4th. Edition.

But honestly... if anyone comes up with a talking like this i see no reason to hold back in any way. At least i am kind enough to allow him to whine with reason about his weak army.


In any other cases i try to get my list and such tweaked in a way both of us have fun.


Shhh, remember eldar and tau players are TFG powergamers no matter what they use /s lol


That's actually not too far off for the have-not codices.


The worst contenders for the OP codex are blood angel players with their ultimate formations and all that special war gear that don't see what their codex can actually do. I mean that codex is like space marines x5!
   
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Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
 cosmicsoybean wrote:
 _ghost_ wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:

2: You aren't allowed to complain that your army is garbage, it makes the SM/Tau/Eldar armies feel less excited when they table you.


thats a pretty toxic thought. I prefer games that are not a one sided battle. This to say i play Tau since 4th. Edition.

But honestly... if anyone comes up with a talking like this i see no reason to hold back in any way. At least i am kind enough to allow him to whine with reason about his weak army.


In any other cases i try to get my list and such tweaked in a way both of us have fun.


Shhh, remember eldar and tau players are TFG powergamers no matter what they use /s lol


That's actually not too far off for the have-not codices.


The worst contenders for the OP codex are blood angel players with their ultimate formations and all that special war gear that don't see what their codex can actually do. I mean that codex is like space marines x5!


I know right? That relic that let's you reroll seize the initiative and you insts-win if you do seize... I dunno why people don't take that. Or the Blood dragons that Sanguinary guard ride with their S8 T8 FMC/ S10 AP2 hellstorm breath weapon. Only 20 additional points per Sanguinary Guard. A full unit of 10 has tabled my opponent more times thsn i can remember. The BA dex is like... wasaaaayyy OP man.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/20 22:16:23


 
   
Made in ca
Evasive Pleasureseeker



Lost in a blizzard, somewhere near Toronto

 EnTyme wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
As for the complete overhauls, I'd say Imperial Guard, Orks, and Chaos Marines are the prime candidates.
None of those are even close to the level of complete overhaul that Sisters of Battle need.


Sisters don't just need an overhaul, they need a full re-release.

And yet hilariously, their actual rules are in much better shape than the poor CSM's.

Sisters have little to no trouble beat the living gak out of Chaos Marines... The only things they legit struggle with are Helturkies, and flying Nurgle Princes.

 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Please, CSM players have always whined about their codex, even when their armies were consistently at the top of tournament rankings. I'll give a damn what they think once/if Sisters actually do get updated.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre



california

He's right you know. When you guys had the hell chicken list, there were still complaints.
   
Made in us
Hellacious Havoc




Kansas, USA

I agree with you there Melissia, (Not the whining part, but the sisters getting released part.) I know how bad CSM is hurting, and no matter how frustrated I am about it. I would happily give up on a CSM update for [Insert absurd number here] years if it meant Sisters got a proper update and release in plastics. Mostly cause i could actually start the army proper instead of just collecting a few models here and there.

"Because we couldn't be trusted. The Emperor needed a weapon that would never obey its own desires before those of the Imperium. He needed a weapon that would never bite the hand that feeds. The World Eaters were not that weapon. We've all drawn blades purely for the sake of shedding blood, and we've all felt the exultation of winning a war that never even needed to happen. We are not the tame, reliable pets that the Emperor wanted. The Wolves obey, when we would not. The Wolves can be trusted, when we never could. They have discipline we lack, because their passions are not aflame with the Butcher's Nails buzzing in the back of their skulls.

The Wolves will always come to the heel when called. In that regard, it is a mystery why they name themselves wolves. They are tame, collared by the Emperor, obeying his every whim. But a wolf doesn't behave that way. Only a dog does.

That is why we are the Eaters of Worlds, and the War Hounds no longer."
- Eighth Captain Khârn  
   
 
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