Death From the Skies

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**Uriels_Flame**

I know! I'm on the E-version of White Dwarf and people get next weeks before I get the current one!

**Red Corsair**

the Signless wrote:
What I am concerned about with this supplement is that it is going to allow people to remove models before they even see the table. No one (okay maybe some weird people) likes to pack up all their models, travel down to the store, arrange a game, then not get to put their painted models on the table because they were "shot in reserves".

Apparently you have never deep-strike misshaped?

Honestly, what is the difference?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
What if flying mc's lost the hard to hit rule? Suddenly they aren't head and shoulders above regular flyers...
Never gonna happen.

Why not? They aren't faster than fast skimmers or jetbikes, they can gain a cover save from being in area terrain (meaning they are atnleast as low as knee high grass) and would still gain jink and the better movement they do now. Hell, they are already able to be targeted by templates with skyfire (with as many of those you see around...)

Let them charge the turn they drop and keep their skyfire/ vector strike and suddenly they have a niche within the game somewhere between skimmer and actual flyers.

One single sentence in the rules of this supplement does all of that.
It won't happen because it would reduce the strength of MCs, and we know that GW won't ever do that.

Let's not pretend MCs and FMCs haven't been nerfed since 6th. Smash got made worse and Melee FMCs were made utterly terrible unless you have a psyker with Invisibility or other way of buffing its survivability.

They may not be massive nerfs, but they're nerfs (and really, MC's don't need a nerf in general, vehicles need a buff).

This is preposterous. FMC is BY FAR the most imbalanced unit type. They have a laundry list of exceptions to the rules every other unit type must play by and then some more. Regular MC's are in an OK spot but FMC's are ridiculous, there is a reason why it is a no brainer to take the winged version of any MC available every time, it's broken. Hell, please explain to me why a FMC is hard to hit, but has no problem returning fire under those same conditions? Right, because the rules are plain silly and imbalanced. Make FMC skyfire only when swooping and we are getting somewhere, remove toe in cover while swooping and we have just about arrived.

**tneva82**

Red Corsair wrote:
This is preposterous. FMC is BY FAR the most imbalanced unit type. They have a laundry list of exceptions to the rules every other unit type must play by and then some more. Regular MC's are in an OK spot but FMC's are ridiculous, there is a reason why it is a no brainer to take the winged version of any MC available every time, it's broken. Hell, please explain to me why a FMC is hard to hit, but has no problem returning fire under those same conditions? Right, because the rules are plain silly and imbalanced. Make FMC skyfire only when swooping and we are getting somewhere, remove toe in cover while swooping and we have just about arrived.

He didn't say they were balanced. He said they have been hit by nerfbat _which is provenly true_ so claiming GW will never nerf them is markedly false statement.

And his second point(CC FMC's are crap) seems to be also fairly solid point. Don't recall high level list with one that I can remember. FMC's with guns yes. FMC's that rely on CC to do anything no. Having to wait turn without flying protection is pretty rough. So FMC's are either psykers or shooters...

**Drakkol**

Also, you have to remember that FMC's are 2x or even 3x more expensive than your average vehicle flyer most times. Although I do agree the toe in cover while swooping gives cover is a dumb rule.

FMCs are not much more resilient then vehicle flyers in my experience. Especially against dedicated AA or ignore cover rules.

**CthuluIsSpy**

I had a thought; they said there is going to be a flyer phase, right?
So what if it works like in drop zone commander, where the flyer shows up on the table, do its thing, and goes back into reserves?

**Gamgee**

Ah like a call in in a video game. That would be cool. And would definitely add some strategy. For those blessed with good airplanes. :(

For my Tau I'll just need to bring some anti-air broadsides.

**CthuluIsSpy**

It would certainly act more like a flyer that way.
The current system is kind of weird; its as if they can't decide whether they want the units to be relatively slow gunships or fighter jets.

**Da Butcha**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
It would certainly act more like a flyer that way.
The current system is kind of weird; its as if they can't decide whether they want the units to be relatively slow gunships or fighter jets.

If we are going to have flyers in 40K, we need a way to have both. There's no reason why we couldn't have rules for Gunships, Jets, and, heck, actual hovering things and wing-flapping beasties.

**Skinnereal**

Add in proper jetpacks and jumppacks AA attacks, and we're nearly there.

**Warhams-77**

Iuchiban on Warseer about Death from the Skies

Hi all,

I already have my copy of the book, and after a quick go-through:

(As usual, translations may not be 100% correct)

- There is a new detachment:

Air Superiority Detachment

Is formed by 1-3 Flyer Wings*

Restrictions: All models have to be chosen from the same faction

Benefits:
- Air commander; If the commander of the Wing is in reserves, re-roll interception, If you have superiority and your Chief is in Reservers you add +2 to your reserve rolls instead of 1.
- Combined formation: You choose to make a single reserve roll for the whole formation if you want.
- Transport that have the hover mode have the Objetive secured rule.

Of course I need to read the book to know what it all means.

All the existing flyers have the same point costs and rules as in their current codex.

The stormhawk costs 125 points and comes with: Twin linked assault cannon, twin linked heavy bolter, "super laser thing" (24", S9, AP2, Heavy 2), Ceraminte plating, and one ítem that allow the stormhawk reroll when jinking. Has the supersonic special rule.
May exchange the laser thing for an Icurus Cannon for 155 points. May exchange the heavy bolter for a Typhoon missile launcher for +20 points or for a Celestial hammer missile thrower for +5 points.

Now I have to go, but will be back in one hour and a half (aprox).

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?417606-Flyer-Game-Summer-2016&p=7622584&viewfull=1#post7622584

About the ork flyer:

140 points 12/10/10 3HP

(Cannot translate the ork weapons)
Twin-linked 36", S8, AP2, Heavy 1, Blast, Gets hot
1x 36" S1D6+4, AP1, Heavy1
5++ vs one single hit each enemy shooting phase (May be exchanged for an ork energy shield 5++ to be bearer and all models at 6" for +25 points)

Originally Posted by lordbeefy

and can other chapters....BA and SW etc use them?

Looks like, but they have to be taken as part of the detachment mentioned before.

The book says that all the flyers described in this book replace their Data Sheets in all the current codex. Seems that this rules are coming to stay.

**casvalremdeikun**

I am thinking this is mistranslated, but the Stormhawk appears to be 125 pts with the Las-Talon, TL Assault Cannon, and TL HB. It can purchase Icarus Stormcannon for 25 pts to replace the Las-Talon, Skyhammer Missile Launcher for 5 pts or Typhoon Missile Launchers for 20 pts to replace the TL HBs.

**hotsauceman1**

All datasheets replace the ones in the book?
Its a damn 60$ FAQ

**Hulksmash**

Well that was a missed opportunity to fix flyer costs. Pity. We'll have to see if the rules themselves do it. But I really don't want to add another phase to the game. Thankfully flyers are fairly few and far between nowadays.

**Warhams-77**

Seriously, the datasheets have not changed at all (according to Iuchiban). So if none of both players actually has the rules, how and why should you use the new sheets? It is just three new 'stats' - and they are needed for DftS only - if you dont know/have it, skip the new stuff entirely.

**angelofvengeance**

I wonder if those who have it on iPad have to fork out for it again, or does it get updated automatically?

**BrokenRecord**

Oh GW! The answer to improving sales long term is always new products to buy, not changes that make your existing stock more desirable!

But, on a serious note, I am super excited to see exactly how all of these new phase rules work, and I am cautiously hopeful that the Blood Angels, and other non C:SMs, might finally have access to the other SM flyers.

**Warhams-77**

I like these additional rules. It will be used in our group (where we dont need more than 1 book). It is more fun with the current stuff and I am looking forward to the details as currently flyers are a bit boring gameplay-wise.

**gungo**

angelofvengeance wrote:
I wonder if those who have it on iPad have to fork out for it again, or does it get updated automatically?

The old iPad updates for ghaz etc were automatically however it overwrites the old file.

**Sinful Hero**

Warhams-77 wrote:
Seriously, the datasheets have not changed at all (according to Iuchiban). So if none of both players actually has the rules, how and why should you use the new sheets? It is just three new 'stats' - and they are needed for DftS only - if you dont know/have it, skip the new stuff entirely.

Don't one of the new stats add to a Flyer's movement? So it's possible it could make some flyers more cost effective.

**Warhams-77**

Iuchiban - Warseer

FMC are not in this book.

The datasheets are:
- Valkyries
- Stormhawk Interceptors
- Stormtalon
- Stormraven
- Storm wing (Formation)
- Strike Wing (Formation, 2 Stormhawks + 2 Stormtalons)
- Blood Angel Stormraven
- Grey Knights Stormraven
- Dark Talon
- Nephilim
- Ravenwing abductor squadron (Formation, 2 Nephilim + 1 Dark Talon)
- Stormwolf
- Stormfang
- Ice Storm assault pack (Formation, 2 Stormwolves + 2 Stormfangs)
- Heldrake
- Razorwing
- Voidraven
- Blackheart Talon (Formation, 2 Razorwings + 2 Voidravens)
- Crimson Hunter
- Hemlock
- Shroud of Kurnous (Formation, 2-3 Crimson Hunters + 1 Hemlock)
- Night Scythes
- Doom Scythes
- Oppressor Flight (Formation, 1 Night Scythe + 2-3 Doom Scythes)
- Blitza-Bomber
- Burna-Bomber
- Dakkajet
- Wazbom Blastajets
- Ork Skwadron (Formation, 3 of any but Wazbom Blastajets)
- Kustom Wazmob (1 Wazbom + 3 up to three of any other ork flyer including the Wazmob)
- Razorshark
- Sun Shark
- Air caste Support cadre (Formation, 2 Razorsharks + 1 Sun Shark)

**hotsauceman1**

Where is the vendetta?

**casvalremdeikun**

My group doesn't use many flyers (I am the only one that fields them regularly), so I really don't see us needing this book.

For some reason the Blood Angels Stormraven and Grey Knights Stormraven have different rules from the other Stormravens. Curious what that means.

**Uriels_Flame**

Need more clarification... hoping Grey Knights can take storm hawks.

Also since we lost psybolt ammo, what is the difference between GK/BA/SM stormravens?

**Warhams-77**

Sinful Hero wrote:
Warhams-77 wrote:
Seriously, the datasheets have not changed at all (according to Iuchiban). So if none of both players actually has the rules, how and why should you use the new sheets? It is just three new 'stats' - and they are needed for DftS only - if you dont know/have it, skip the new stuff entirely.

Don't one of the new stats add to a Flyer's movement? So it's possible it could make some flyers more cost effective.

True

**casvalremdeikun**

Uriels_Flame wrote:
Need more clarification... hoping Grey Knights can take storm hawks.

Also since we lost psybolt ammo, what is the difference between GK/BA/SM stormravens?

From the looks of it, BA and GK won't get the Stormhawk, but perhaps their Stormravens have different rules.

**BrokenRecord**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Uriels_Flame wrote:
Need more clarification... hoping Grey Knights can take storm hawks.

Also since we lost psybolt ammo, what is the difference between GK/BA/SM stormravens?
From the looks of it, BA and GK won't get the Stormhawk, but perhaps their Stormravens have different rules.

That's how it looks. Perhaps they'll get minor buffs to the new abilities, to make up for being the only ones that BAs and GKs can take. Otherwise, it looks like we just got screwed again.

**angelofvengeance**

The GK get mind strike missiles and the BA get Blood storm missiles (or whatever silliness Ward came up with)

**casvalremdeikun**

BrokenRecord wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
Uriels_Flame wrote:
Need more clarification... hoping Grey Knights can take storm hawks.

Also since we lost psybolt ammo, what is the difference between GK/BA/SM stormravens?
From the looks of it, BA and GK won't get the Stormhawk, but perhaps their Stormravens have different rules.

That's how it looks. Perhaps they'll get minor buffs to the new abilities, to make up for being the only ones that BAs and GKs can take. Otherwise, it looks like we just got screwed again.

My guess is the BA Stormravens are more maneuverable than the others.

**Warhams-77**

Iuchiban - Warseer

I will try to sumarize the new stuff:

All Flyers have now three new Atributes: Combat Role, Pursuit and Agility (the more the better)

When shooting there are two types of targes: Ground and flying. Flying targets are FMC, other Flyers, Jetbikes and Grav vehicles. The rest are ground targets.

New rule: Air superiority: If a player has Flyers in Reserve at the end of the Aerial Duel Phase can add +1/-1 to their reserve rolls. Opponent has -1 to reserve rolls.

Any flyer can now make an additional pivot at any point of ther movement if they roll their Agility or less in a single D6.

Only Flyers with the Attack Role can have AA when shooting, but they have -1 BS when shooting Ground Targets.

Flyers do not benefit from cover (Terrain or other models)

When moving Flat Out you can add your Pursuit to the distance

The different combat roles give different bonusses depending on the type of the Attack Pattern.

There are 6 different attack patterns. If I could post a picture of the patterns I would do it, but I think that it is forbidden ...

**Lanlaorn**

The guy on Warseer said none of the datasheets have new stats, though, right?

So I think it's just BA & GK getting screwed again.