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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Conscripts in the 3rd ed IG book, iirc at a rule called Send in the Next Wave, where you recycled destroyed conscript squads.

Gaunts had a similar rule called Without Number.

That was the 5th ed Guard book, & it was the Valhallan SC who gave that rule to his platoon's conscripts (Can't remember the name)

Chenkov, I believe.
And yes, he did have that rule, but I could have sworn the 3rd ed book had that a rule like that standard for Conscript squads. Maybe it wasn't called Send in the Next Wave.

Things I don't like:
Removal of all Ultramarine defeats. They were better with them.

Removal of C'tan as physical gods and Necrons as soulless/mindless automatons.

The Black Library Horus Heresy Series - nearly all of it. It's not just sort of wrong, it's straight up character assassination. It'd take me hours to type up all the retcons in it I consider bad ideas.

The notion that the Emperor was a psychic god in life. Although, the internet is responsible for most of this, but the internet perpetuated the idea long enough that it's becoming cannon. The Emperor's main strengths originally was his scientific genius and general knowledge. He was just also only arguably the most powerful Human psyker.

Trillions of Eldar.

Ollanius Pious' various backgrounds. He was best when he was just a normal guardsman. That had real meaning.

Things I like:
Tau, yes, really. Adding Tau is a retcon, and it's a positive one. They get to be the naive perspective in the setting and we get to see just how horrible that really is in 40k.

Dark Eldar, same as Tau. It never made sense that there were no survivors of the original Eldar culture.

4th edition Necrons. Every setting needs a bigger fish. They were one.

Saul Tarvitz in the BL HH series. Suck it 4 Primarchs, you got outsmarted and out-generaled by one forgotten Captain who was woefully outmatched. Putting down the fanboy-notion of unstoppable and infallible Primarchs is awesome. Now they just need to that to the Emperor and maybe the series will be worth it. If you didn't know what the retcon here was, Saul Tarvitz originally escaped Istvaan on the Eisenstein with Garro.

Garro in the BL HH series, although this isn't a retcon, but an expansion, since we didn't know anything about him except that he was on the Eisenstein. Turns out the setting does allow for a character to be heroic, rational, and religious all the same time. Usually they don't like to hit all of those points.

The Horus Heresy. No, not the book series, the event. The Horus Heresy was invented to sell the original Epic game so they only had to make marines for the main box and it would be two armies. This has become the single most defining event in the entire setting and the ultimate example of why pimping for the product is not objectively a bad idea.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
If you didn't know what the retcon here was, Saul Tarvitz originally escaped Istvaan on the Eisenstein with Garro.

*Originally* Each Legion (Chapter) seized a different vessel, Varren and his World Eaters seized the Eisenstein and made a break for it, the other seized vessels were tasked with causing a distraction so it could escape.

The Death Guard IA author fanboi'd it by stealing both Tarvitz and Varren's thunder. I'm glad they've given both some measure of it back (Varren appears in one of the Garro stories), but letting the blatant fanboism stand by making Garro something special still irks me.

The thing I hate most about the Netcron is that it suddenly made everyone who likes it forget everything they ever knew about the old Necron fluff... and half of the people who hate the Newcron fluff seem to have forgotten the old Necron fluff as well!

There was a six page spread of green on green text in White Dwarf about the War in Heaven in 4th edition, timed to match up with the Eldar codex release that repurposed Eldar as the 'ancient guardians against the necron threat'. It told a wonderful story about a Harlequin troupe re-enacting the Death of the C'tan by civil war, which left everyone confused as to whether the Deciever was really Cegorach all along or not. The Void Dragon? The Outsider? that's where that fluff came from!

Not to mention the fluff in the first 3rd edition Chapter Approved articles about how Necrons lost a little bit more of their soul every time they phased out for repairs. That was retconned away when the C'tan were made the Big Bosses though. That article was also where Necron Immortals were introduced, expanding the Necron range to five whole models (alternate Warrior poses notwithstanding).

Or how about the oldcron fluff where Harvest Ships would appear over a colony, abduct precisely 1/3 or 1/10th of the population, then vanish again with no clues as to what happened beyond the occasional mutilated herd animal and memory of flashing green lights? Anyone remember that? Anyone at al? Nobody ever learned why they were doing it, let alone what the criteria for who they chose to steal away were.

But, hell, even Matt Ward forgot that Necron ships don't have void shields, so what can we really expect?

I remember the bit about losing a bit of their soul everytime they phase out. I remember finding that bit of lore contradictory, as I read it after reading the 3rd ed codex.

I also remember reading about the harvesting.
I thought it was a nice reference to alien abuctions.

I remember the thing about the War in Heaven play as well. It was neat.

I liked how they humbled Vect a bit in the 5th edition Dark Eldar Codex, where he's stated to have been a slave or something during the fall. In older fluff he said he was one of the founders of Commoragh. This gave him a bit more character than if he just started off as the biggest tyrant in the city.

As for most disliked, it's a tossup between the Necron fiasco and the Warding of the Grey Knight.

Or just anything by Ward in general. That guy is a prime example of why fanboys should NEVER write official fluff.

People gonna crucify me for this, but I prefer the new backstory for how the Emperor got his powers than the old Shaman thing. It has a great Prometheus vibe to it.

 Harriticus wrote:
People gonna crucify me for this, but I prefer the new backstory for how the Emperor got his powers than the old Shaman thing. It has a great Prometheus vibe to it.

Actually I like that too. Especially as it allowed Horus to gain some in the same way

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Things I don't like:
Removal of all Ultramarine defeats. They were better with them.
.

just because a battle isn't spelled out in a codex doesn't mean it's been retconned out of existance.

Likewise just because the Ultramarines won the second battle of Damnos doesn't mean the first one suddenly no longer counts

 Harriticus wrote:
People gonna crucify me for this, but I prefer the new backstory for how the Emperor got his powers than the old Shaman thing. It has a great Prometheus vibe to it.

Wait, what?

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
People gonna crucify me for this, but I prefer the new backstory for how the Emperor got his powers than the old Shaman thing. It has a great Prometheus vibe to it.

Wait, what?

he's proably thinking of spirit of vengance where it suggests the emperor stole power from the gods of chaos, I interpreted that as him stealing the power to create the primarchs

Imperial knights. God I hate them. Their fluff makes no sence to me.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
People gonna crucify me for this, but I prefer the new backstory for how the Emperor got his powers than the old Shaman thing. It has a great Prometheus vibe to it.

Wait, what?

he's proably thinking of spirit of vengance where it suggests the emperor stole power from the gods of chaos, I interpreted that as him stealing the power to create the primarchs

You mean Vengeful Spirit I also prefer explanation from that Horus Heresy novel over old fluff. Always found whole shaman theory stupid.

The entirety of the cabal stuff. So damn stupid

Nerak wrote:
Imperial knights. God I hate them. Their fluff makes no sence to me.

Have the Knights been retconned? They have always been a back ground part of 40k, they've only recently come into prominence though with GW's insistence that the game be apocalypse all the time.

IK have been around for a very long time, and showed up in versions of Epic, iirc.

there is a bit of a differance, at least IMHO to GW shining a light on nooks and crannies of 40k not seen in the past and an outright retcon.

Imperial knights = not a retcon

Skitarii refusing to sue wheeled vehicles = retcon.


just for example

BrianDavion wrote:
there is a bit of a differance, at least IMHO to GW shining a light on nooks and crannies of 40k not seen in the past and an outright retcon.

Imperial knights = not a retcon

Skitarii refusing to sue wheeled vehicles = retcon.


just for example

Speaking of which that is a stupid Fething retcon. They are the MECHANICUS! they should be one of the most tank happy armies in all of 40k! not to mention it's a poor, poor excuse for them not having it upon launch that Alongside the fact that they apparently don't use the HH style cybernetica units is probably the stupidest fething thing about them.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
there is a bit of a differance, at least IMHO to GW shining a light on nooks and crannies of 40k not seen in the past and an outright retcon.

Imperial knights = not a retcon

Skitarii refusing to sue wheeled vehicles = retcon.


just for example

Speaking of which that is a stupid Fething retcon. They are the MECHANICUS! they should be one of the most tank happy armies in all of 40k! not to mention it's a poor, poor excuse for them not having it upon launch that Alongside the fact that they apparently don't use the HH style cybernetica units is probably the stupidest fething thing about them.

the lack of HH style units I'm fine with, if every unit from the HH reappered in 40k the HH loses a lot of it's impact.

the idea that the admech prefers walkers? intreasting idea, but they need a transport.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
there is a bit of a differance, at least IMHO to GW shining a light on nooks and crannies of 40k not seen in the past and an outright retcon.

Imperial knights = not a retcon

Skitarii refusing to sue wheeled vehicles = retcon.


just for example

Speaking of which that is a stupid Fething retcon. They are the MECHANICUS! they should be one of the most tank happy armies in all of 40k! not to mention it's a poor, poor excuse for them not having it upon launch that Alongside the fact that they apparently don't use the HH style cybernetica units is probably the stupidest fething thing about them.

the lack of HH style units I'm fine with, if every unit from the HH reappered in 40k the HH loses a lot of it's impact.

the idea that the admech prefers walkers? intreasting idea, but they need a transport.

imho, AdMech should have been filled with high-point-cost units. For example, Jetbikes for a fast-attack unit. Why? Because if the Dark Angels can maintain a Jetbike, then so can the bloody Mechanicus! Also, Volkite weaponry for an elite unit, along with some uber-powerful Plasma weaponry that has a high point cost. The AdMech should have had all of these crazy unique toys that had high point costs, but were hugely powerful, like black hole guns, or insanely accurate artillery vehicles. There is so much missed potential with the AdMech faction's Codices I want to host a book burning just to destroy every copy of those blasphemous books.

the admech does have a fair number of powerful high cost weapons though, you can equip troops with grav cannons for crying out loud,

that said my over all feeling on the matter is "it's a good start"

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

Nerak wrote:
Imperial knights. God I hate them. Their fluff makes no sence to me.

Have the Knights been retconned? They have always been a back ground part of 40k, they've only recently come into prominence though with GW's insistence that the game be apocalypse all the time.

Slightly. Apparently only boys can drive Knights now, that never used to be the case.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

Nerak wrote:
Imperial knights. God I hate them. Their fluff makes no sence to me.

Have the Knights been retconned? They have always been a back ground part of 40k, they've only recently come into prominence though with GW's insistence that the game be apocalypse all the time.

Slightly. Apparently only boys can drive Knights now, that never used to be the case.

well how can they do game of thrones in big stompy robots if women are eqal to men?

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

Nerak wrote:
Imperial knights. God I hate them. Their fluff makes no sence to me.

Have the Knights been retconned? They have always been a back ground part of 40k, they've only recently come into prominence though with GW's insistence that the game be apocalypse all the time.

Slightly. Apparently only boys can drive Knights now, that never used to be the case.

I thought there was at least 1 Knight who was a woman?

pm713 wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

Nerak wrote:
Imperial knights. God I hate them. Their fluff makes no sence to me.

Have the Knights been retconned? They have always been a back ground part of 40k, they've only recently come into prominence though with GW's insistence that the game be apocalypse all the time.

Slightly. Apparently only boys can drive Knights now, that never used to be the case.

I thought there was at least 1 Knight who was a woman?

their is, she was a freeblade, generally speaking most knight houses only allow men to drive a knight, given the throne mechanium's tendancy to imprint a string sense of tradtionalism, heirarchy etc, that's likely the reason for it. that said I'd certainly not have a problem with someone making a custom knight house that allowed women to become knights, or even one with an amazonian reversal of gender roles. it's a big setting.

that said the freeblade mentioned earlier is proably where the bulk of the female knights come from, Mulan's and Joan d'Arcs etc

BrianDavion wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
People gonna crucify me for this, but I prefer the new backstory for how the Emperor got his powers than the old Shaman thing. It has a great Prometheus vibe to it.

Wait, what?

he's proably thinking of spirit of vengance where it suggests the emperor stole power from the gods of chaos, I interpreted that as him stealing the power to create the primarchs

That isn't what happened in that book.

In that book, daemons told Horus that the Emperor got his powers from chaos gods.

Because daemons are totally forthright and believable. They also have a bridge they'd like to sell you.

I like the new Necron fluff and Perpetuals.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
People gonna crucify me for this, but I prefer the new backstory for how the Emperor got his powers than the old Shaman thing. It has a great Prometheus vibe to it.

Wait, what?

he's proably thinking of spirit of vengance where it suggests the emperor stole power from the gods of chaos, I interpreted that as him stealing the power to create the primarchs

That isn't what happened in that book.

In that book, daemons told Horus that the Emperor got his powers from chaos gods.

Because daemons are totally forthright and believable. They also have a bridge they'd like to sell you.

None of the sources on what exactly went down between the Emperor and the Chaos Gods are credible. Stole, bargained, cheated, exchanged; all have been suggested and none of them are verifiable.

Then again, neither is Horus' "I won my new god-like powers fair and square" attitude either. He's trusting his perception of what went on in the Warp (commanding Daemon armies etc and taking the power by force) when at the same time he acknowledges that his perceptions must be a bit screwed because he was only gone for a moment. Time moves differently in the Warp, and nothing is as it seems. For all we know, he actually just had a 20 minute meeting with the Pantheon and his limited mind was unable to grasp the reality of that, so he imagines it as a thousand years of Daemon-war.

Have the Knights been retconned? They have always been a back ground part of 40k, they've only recently come into prominence though with GW's insistence that the game be apocalypse all the time.

Knights used to be part of epic 40k. I just thought they where a part of the titan legions back then.

I have two problems with them that serves as fuel for my anger. The first is the faction they represent and the other is the ones they don't. First theese guys represent noble houses, I know they are deployable through help from the mechanicus but primarily the knights are a part of the noble houses of the knights worlds. Given the relative ease of production, their outstanding performance and the fact that they are not strictly part of any adeptus I don't see why the mechanicus doesn't just go "small sized titan? Awesome" and start mass producing theese things everywhere. I don't understand why a knight contingency isn't incorporate into the imperial guard or even as an offshot to the titan legions. It buggs the hell out of me that they are an organization outside the adeptus bureaucracy. This would make them more akin to the space marines then anything, where anyone who want their assistance must ask for it and have damn good reason for it. An inquisitor could easily acquire the schematics of one and then mass production all over should be easy. If the knights are a remnant of the dark age of technology then how the hell did the Emperor not put knights in the space marine legions? We know the titans where strictly a part of the mechanicus so they couldn't really be easily be placed anywhere but the knights has got nothing but wealth protecting them. The Astartes legions should have been equipped with theese things the second they where found and, failing that, they should have replaced the dreadnoughts for the astartes long ago. Let's asssume they where recently found, why hasn't the high lords of terra decided that this awesome new piece of battle tech gets put into the imperial war machine instead of being allowed to remain their own ruling body? Does anyone else see the issues here? Noble houses have power but are quite frankly the least powerfull faction in 40k when push comes to shove.