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Which goes to show how much was needed to stop the nids. The smaller branch of nids than those which Ghazzy and his boyz are now holding their own against in the Octarian sector. That Armageddon has not yet fallen shows how strong the unified IoM is, not how irrelevant the Orks are

It can equally easily show just as hard it is to get rid of the Orks, though?

 Ashiraya wrote:
And the Ultramarines did not fight alone. They pulled in help to defend the system... from systems now held by their very friendly successors (guess which systems), as well as Navy ships.

The had the entire segmentum fleet from Bakka to help and it was a close thing as I recall.

Thats Segmentum Tempestus not Ultima Segmentum, theres had already bought it

BrianDavion wrote:

Spoiler:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
One, Chapter Masters are not above the High Lords of Terra. Never have been, never will be. If the HLoT tell a Chapter to go somewhere to fight someone, the Chapter goes. If they don't? Then they're Renegades and are in for a world of pain.

There's a quote from the CM entry in the Codex saying otherwise.

I am also pretty sure I have told you this before on at least two separate occasions.

you of course can provide the quote, as well as the codex edition and page number?

Here it is:

6th Edition Codex: Space Marines, page 79 wrote:A Chapter Master has the authority to act as he wishes and is answerable only to others of his rank.

Seems fairly cut-and-dry to me. Of course it does not mean that a Chapter veering off the path of the Emperor's light (by repeatedly refusing to take the fight to the Imperium's foes, for example) wouldn't be held in contempt and reported to Inquisitorial authorities or their fellow Chapters...

The Chapter Master can do as he likes, but the world his fortress is on can't. Which was Huron's problem.

 Lord Corellia wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Spoiler:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
One, Chapter Masters are not above the High Lords of Terra. Never have been, never will be. If the HLoT tell a Chapter to go somewhere to fight someone, the Chapter goes. If they don't? Then they're Renegades and are in for a world of pain.

There's a quote from the CM entry in the Codex saying otherwise.

I am also pretty sure I have told you this before on at least two separate occasions.

you of course can provide the quote, as well as the codex edition and page number?

Here it is:

6th Edition Codex: Space Marines, page 79 wrote:A Chapter Master has the authority to act as he wishes and is answerable only to others of his rank.

Seems fairly cut-and-dry to me. Of course it does not mean that a Chapter veering off the path of the Emperor's light (by repeatedly refusing to take the fight to the Imperium's foes, for example) wouldn't be held in contempt and reported to Inquisitorial authorities or their fellow Chapters...

That's how the Astartes see it, but in practice, it's a little less cut and dry. Chapters operate a lot more independently than any other part of the Imperium save for the Mechanicus and Inquisitors, but a Chapter Master throwing his weight around can still have the hammered laid down on his chapter for treason or corruption. Just ask the Rainbow Warriors. In reality, it works a lot like Inquisitors: in theory their above the law, but if enough forces decide they've got to go, they can still be excommunicated and executed.

 Lord Corellia wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Spoiler:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
One, Chapter Masters are not above the High Lords of Terra. Never have been, never will be. If the HLoT tell a Chapter to go somewhere to fight someone, the Chapter goes. If they don't? Then they're Renegades and are in for a world of pain.

There's a quote from the CM entry in the Codex saying otherwise.

I am also pretty sure I have told you this before on at least two separate occasions.

you of course can provide the quote, as well as the codex edition and page number?

Here it is:

6th Edition Codex: Space Marines, page 79 wrote:A Chapter Master has the authority to act as he wishes and is answerable only to others of his rank.

Seems fairly cut-and-dry to me. Of course it does not mean that a Chapter veering off the path of the Emperor's light (by repeatedly refusing to take the fight to the Imperium's foes, for example) wouldn't be held in contempt and reported to Inquisitorial authorities or their fellow Chapters...

that doesn't mean a Chapter master is ABOVE the High Lords, just that he does not ANSWER to them.

Does shoving the Necrons behind everything count as a retcon? Because all of a sudden they (and the C'tan) were responsible for the creation (or at least engineering) of the Eldar and Orks, everybody fearing death (except the Orks somehow). They caused the Warp to get roiled up in the first place. The Deceiver was implied to have led Abaddon to his Daemon sword and encouraged his 12th Black Crusade (because obviously arming an enemy with the Blackstone Fortresses makes more sense than him just trashing them with his god powers). They became the only faction with "gods" strolling around fully powered. Everyone else who had such beings had them handicapped in the Materium. They became the oldest and most technologically advanced faction because why would Eldar get to keep that.

The more I think about it, their 3rd Ed background half comes across as fan fiction. And then the other half is pretty cool.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
Does shoving the Necrons behind everything count as a retcon? Because all of a sudden they (and the C'tan) were responsible for the creation (or at least engineering) of the Eldar and Orks, everybody fearing death (except the Orks somehow). They caused the Warp to get roiled up in the first place. The Deceiver was implied to have led Abaddon to his Daemon sword and encouraged his 12th Black Crusade (because obviously arming an enemy with the Blackstone Fortresses makes more sense than him just trashing them with his god powers). They became the only faction with "gods" strolling around fully powered. Everyone else who had such beings had them handicapped in the Materium. They became the oldest and most technologically advanced faction because why would Eldar get to keep that.

The more I think about it, their 3rd Ed background half comes across as fan fiction. And then the other half is pretty cool.

Necrons, the one 5th edition Wardex that saw the faction get downplayed from previous fluff!

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
They became the only faction with "gods" strolling around fully powered.

Except they weren't.
The Void Dragon is sealed on Mars, The Outsider is trapped in a Dyson Sphere, The Nightbringer lost a chunk of his power shortly before the enslaver plague, and the deceiver is considered to the be weakest of the C'tan, hence his reliance on trickery. Not to mention that they are all starved after leaving hibernation. They were hardly at full power.

If you actually read the fluff behind the blackstone fortresses, you'd find that the idea was that Abbadon would capture them, and the imperium would destroy them. The Blackstone fortresses were weapons designed to destroy C'tan, and the plan sort of worked. In the end there was only 1 fortress, but it got away.

That said, being able to field one on the table was pretty dumb, and the fearing death thing was kind of goofy. Like, it was a cool idea thematically, but it didn't make that much sense. What, did everyone commit suicide for fun before?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
Does shoving the Necrons behind everything count as a retcon? Because all of a sudden they (and the C'tan) were responsible for the creation (or at least engineering) of the Eldar and Orks, everybody fearing death (except the Orks somehow). They caused the Warp to get roiled up in the first place. The Deceiver was implied to have led Abaddon to his Daemon sword and encouraged his 12th Black Crusade (because obviously arming an enemy with the Blackstone Fortresses makes more sense than him just trashing them with his god powers). They became the only faction with "gods" strolling around fully powered. Everyone else who had such beings had them handicapped in the Materium. They became the oldest and most technologically advanced faction because why would Eldar get to keep that.

The more I think about it, their 3rd Ed background half comes across as fan fiction. And then the other half is pretty cool.

Necrons, the one 5th edition Wardex that saw the faction get downplayed from previous fluff!

Oh yeah, the celestial orrery, tanks that can somehow blow up whole worlds if tampered with, being able to shatter gods and that guy who can go super sayan is downplayed alright,

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Except they weren't.
The Void Dragon is sealed on Mars, The Outsider is trapped in a Dyson Sphere, The Nightbringer lost a chunk of his power shortly before the enslaver plague, and the deceiver is considered to the be weakest of the C'tan, hence his reliance on trickery. Not to mention that they are all starved after leaving hibernation. They were hardly at full power.

If you actually read the fluff behind the blackstone fortresses, you'd find that the idea was that Abbadon would capture them, and the imperium would destroy them. The Blackstone fortresses were weapons designed to destroy C'tan, and the plan sort of worked. In the end there was only 1 fortress, but it got away.

That said, being able to field one on the table was pretty dumb, and the fearing death thing was kind of goofy. Like, it was a cool idea thematically, but it didn't make that much sense. What, did everyone commit suicide for fun before?

The Deceiver was wandering around for millennia by the 41st millennium. Weak compared to other C'tan it was still presumably vastly more powerful than more mundane lifeforms. Plenty of time accrue power both in terms of his own power and to awaken other tomb worlds. Forgot about the Nightbringer losing his ship but even still it'd just be matter of time before he regained most of his power.

Why would he need to rely on Abaddon? He was only C'tan awake by that point if I recall correctly. What stopped him from awakening and commanding hundreds of tomb worlds? What stopped this god of the Materium from destroying the Blackstone Fortresses whilst they were not activated in the first place? Why risk an enemy gaining such power when the Imperium had no idea of what they possessed? Besides all that, my point was that the Necrons were added and suddenly dominated the background of major factions. Also I think it was two Blackstone Fortresses that Abaddon escaped with.

Wasn't it supposed to somehow have eventually led to the Eldar being unable to reincarnate or something weird?

Why waste your own resources, when you can manipulate your enemies to do your work for you, who don't even know how to properly use such devices in the first place? That's how the deceiver works; he's never direct, he's always plotting. He's not a sledgehammer, he's a knife in the back. Which is why having the option to field him is dumb; he would not be fighting alongside necrons, he would be on the other side, pretending to be a military adviser.

Just because he is something of a god, doesn't mean that he can be everywhere at once. He somehow blows up a Blackstone fortress and then what?
The Eldar would notice, the others would have been reactivated, and that's something like 5 anti-C'tan / Necron devices he has to deal with. The Fortresses are really good at killing necrons, and making a full scale offensive like that would be risky, especially if you factor in Eldar reinforcements.
The Imperium would certainly notice as well, as they were using the fortresses as naval bases (albeit without the weapon systems), and they would start increasing their hunt for Tomb Worlds. Not to mention the likelihood of them making a pact with the Eldar.
Better to let chaos taint it, have the keys to activate them, and prompt the Eldar and Imperium to destroy their own weapons.

He did rally a bunch of necrons to finish off the last few fortresses, and they destroyed all but one.

I read there was only one fortress left. It got tainted by Slaanesh, and was heavily damaged by a necron fleet.

You say tainted... more like outright possessed. It's the daemon controlling the Blackstone Fortress that does for Eldrad in the end, consumes him entirely.

Eh, tainted, possessed, its all the same really. One just needs a bigger exorcism ritual. Just pour more holy water, it'll be fine


Wouldn't it be the worst, if the grey knights acted blase like that?
"Oh, the bloodtide? Its fiiiine. Just sacrifice a couple of sisters and call back in the morning."

Ikr? It would make no sense and totally break immersion.

Like, imagine bow bad a story would be if certain marines could waltz through the warp completely unaffected and take out a daemon primarch like it was nothing.

He didn't take Mortarion like it was nothing but that is a lot harder to get upset about I suppose.

On an unrelated note - Hellguns becoming hot shot lasguns. I really don't like how they became the same.

IIRC, the HSLG was a powerful but short ranged lasgun that deteriorates quickly due to the amount of energy produced.
It was not the same as a hellgun.

I'm probably wrong and the HSLGs are just replacing the hellgun. Which I still don't like, because to me the hellgun is an iconic stormtrooper weapon.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
On an unrelated note - Hellguns becoming hot shot lasguns. I really don't like how they became the same.

IIRC, the HSLG was a powerful but short ranged lasgun that deteriorates quickly due to the amount of energy produced.
It was not the same as a hellgun.

I'm probably wrong and the HSLGs are just replacing the hellgun. Which I still don't like, because to me the hellgun is an iconic stormtrooper weapon.

I had always thought that hellguns were the equivalent of Fallout's Gatling Laser, while HSLGs would be the shotgun of Lasguns.

Yeah, I can sort of see the comparison there between the gatling and the hellgun.

Not seeing the connection between the HSLG and shotguns though. Do HSLGs fire multiple beams at once in a spread?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, I can sort of see the comparison there between the gatling and the hellgun.

Not seeing the connection between the HSLG and shotguns though. Do HSLGs fire multiple beams at once in a spread?

Lots of stopping power at short range, but said stopping power drops off rapidly over medium-to-long ranges.

Behold, the skub in all its glory




Hope it makes a comeback because the fact it ever existed is too much for some people to cope.

The problem I have with Eldar/human hybrids is that it shouldn't be biologically possible.

Isn't Eldar DNA nothing like human? If there was some relation, it would be theoretically possible to create a crossbreed like that, albeit one that is sterile.
You see that today with mules; horses and donkeys are the same genus (Equus) but different geneses. As such they can interbreed, but any offspring they produce is sterile.

But Eldar and Humans are completely different genus.

Its a cool idea, but it makes the biologist in me cringe.
Now, if it were some sort of crazy DE / Radical Biologis experiment...yeah, I can deal with that.

Video related





Edit : Crossed Genus and Species. I R gud biologiz

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
The problem I have with Eldar/human hybrids is that it shouldn't be biologically possible.

Isn't Eldar DNA nothing like human? If there was some relation, it would be theoretically possible to create a crossbreed like that, albeit one that is sterile.
You see that today with mules; horses and donkeys are the same Species (Equus) but different geneses. As such they can interbreed, but any offspring they produce is sterile.

But Eldar and Humans are completely different species.

Its a cool idea, but it makes the biologist in me cringe.
Now, if it were some sort of crazy DE / Radical Biologis experiment...yeah, I can deal with that.

Video related

well, technically speaking, humans and eldar are old one creations, yes? so isn't it entirely possible with how similar the races are to intermix?

I'm not too sure about that. Isn't Eldar DNA triple helixed? Or am I thinking of another alien race?
I just don't see how they are the same genus and are compatible, despite the external physiological similarities.

I mean, you might as well say Ork / Human hybrids are possible. Or rather would be if Orks had wombs or penises.

It begins... muahaha

*Just... as.... planned.....*

 Wulfmar wrote:
Behold, the skub in all its glory

Spoiler:

Hope it makes a comeback because the fact it ever existed is too much for some people to cope.

IT CANNOT BE!



The War in Heaven was around 65 million years ago, so it's not very likely that humans have anything to do with the old ones. Also, I too recall something about eldar having odd DNA and reproductive methods that are incompatible with humans.

That and to Eldar, boning a human is essentially bestiality.

I'm sure to a Dark Eldar that's still a pretty vanilla fetish
"Oh, you shag humans? Pfft, boring. Torturing them or making them crossbreed while torturing them is more entertaining"

The Succubus in Nightbringer was pretty squicked out by having to sleep with a human though.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The Succubus in Nightbringer was pretty squicked out by having to sleep with a human though.

Well most people aren't into bestiality either, even people who are pretty depraved in other ways.

Different pokes for different folks I guess.