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It's not a parody. It's just a copy of a Tau vehicle.

Pretty sure this is actual footage of Marvel receiving the C&D.



Kind of fun with how they can push around the smaller companies but are likely helpless against a much larger one in this case.

There's always a bigger fish.

We don't know what GW are going to do in this case. They may simply ask Marvel for a symbolic $1 payment of royalties. How much would Marvel be prepared to spend on lawyers to avoid such a terrible publishment? Their own in-house team will tell them to settle straight away.

I gotta say, legalities aside, this comic just looked....awful. 40k and Marvel isn't a crossover I want, but even so this panel just looked like crappy fanart.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I don't think GW has much of a case. The aliens have a different name and if Marvel quickly writes a story establishing that they are, I dunno, carnivorous snake men who use enslaved psychic turtles to power their tanks, and quickly design a dozen more tanks for them...

Then they're clearly not the Tau. Just as Ace Reporter Clark Liebowitz and his partner Lois Hernandez are not Superman and Lois Lane.

Nah, they do have a case. The visual design of the tau vehicles are copyrighted (and these are identical to the GW artwork) no matter what aliens are made up that pilot them in the story.

It's no big case, and will probably be settled for a small fee given to GW at best, but having an exact visual copy of a GW vehicle isn't the same as two reporters sharing the first names of two DC characters.

Wouldn't this fall under fair use? Like isn't there a Lantern Corps pics with (amongst others) Daffy Duck and Optimus Prime as members, neither of which are owned by DC.

Isn't a Green Lantern Daffy Duck a genuine accepted character though? He was a quest guide in the Lego Batman 3 game.

Damn, if only there was a clip of the 'GW Legal Team' part from the 'Inside GW' video

 Nydhog wrote:
There's always a bigger fish.

If not, just summon bigger fish!

I'm going on tracing. There's a really terrible example of a frame from some Marvel(?) comic where a guy used the Star Wars Lego Snow Speeder as a basis for ship of some form - with the studs and all. The messed up 3d proportions and look of the craft really add to that feel.

EDIT; Found the pic

Yeah someone wasn't trying to be subtle.

 reds8n wrote:

Spoiler:

And here’s a GW Tau Hammerhead where you can see the same iconography on the side.

I'm not a marine biologist, but that's one hell of a similarity!

They could, if they wanted to, display a bit of the humour GW used to be known for, happily issue the licence for a peppercorn sum, with the rider that in future they have to draw stuff properly?

alphaecho wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I don't think GW has much of a case. The aliens have a different name and if Marvel quickly writes a story establishing that they are, I dunno, carnivorous snake men who use enslaved psychic turtles to power their tanks, and quickly design a dozen more tanks for them...

Then they're clearly not the Tau. Just as Ace Reporter Clark Liebowitz and his partner Lois Hernandez are not Superman and Lois Lane.

Nah, they do have a case. The visual design of the tau vehicles are copyrighted (and these are identical to the GW artwork) no matter what aliens are made up that pilot them in the story.

It's no big case, and will probably be settled for a small fee given to GW at best, but having an exact visual copy of a GW vehicle isn't the same as two reporters sharing the first names of two DC characters.

Wouldn't this fall under fair use? Like isn't there a Lantern Corps pics with (amongst others) Daffy Duck and Optimus Prime as members, neither of which are owned by DC.

Isn't a Green Lantern Daffy Duck a genuine accepted character though? He was a quest guide in the Lego Batman 3 game.

I've no idea, don't really collect comics. It was just a similar example that popped into my head.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I don't think GW has much of a case. The aliens have a different name and if Marvel quickly writes a story establishing that they are, I dunno, carnivorous snake men who use enslaved psychic turtles to power their tanks, and quickly design a dozen more tanks for them...

Then they're clearly not the Tau. Just as Ace Reporter Clark Liebowitz and his partner Lois Hernandez are not Superman and Lois Lane.

Nah, they do have a case. The visual design of the tau vehicles are copyrighted (and these are identical to the GW artwork) no matter what aliens are made up that pilot them in the story.

It's no big case, and will probably be settled for a small fee given to GW at best, but having an exact visual copy of a GW vehicle isn't the same as two reporters sharing the first names of two DC characters.

Wouldn't this fall under fair use? Like isn't there a Lantern Corps pics with (amongst others) Daffy Duck and Optimus Prime as members, neither of which are owned by DC.

There might have been, but remember that cross overs are a thing; it is possible that DC was given permission to use those characters, much like how MK and DC crossed over.

I don't think such permission was given for the tau vehicles, which are blatantly Tau. Like, it even has the little Tau symbol.

 Imposter101 wrote:
I'm going on tracing. There's a really terrible example of a frame from some Marvel(?) comic where a guy used the Star Wars Lego Snow Speeder as a basis for ship of some form - with the studs and all. The messed up 3d proportions and look of the craft really add to that feel.

As soon as I saw the vehicles, I had the thought, 'Is Greg Land fething up comics with tracing again?'

Whoever did the art is proper fethed, because there's no way to explain away the resembelence when GW probably has the source CG files right there. Did he think that nerds who read comic books never play videogames?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I don't think GW has much of a case. The aliens have a different name and if Marvel quickly writes a story establishing that they are, I dunno, carnivorous snake men who use enslaved psychic turtles to power their tanks, and quickly design a dozen more tanks for them...

Then they're clearly not the Tau. Just as Ace Reporter Clark Liebowitz and his partner Lois Hernandez are not Superman and Lois Lane.

Nah, they do have a case. The visual design of the tau vehicles are copyrighted (and these are identical to the GW artwork) no matter what aliens are made up that pilot them in the story.

It's no big case, and will probably be settled for a small fee given to GW at best, but having an exact visual copy of a GW vehicle isn't the same as two reporters sharing the first names of two DC characters.

Wouldn't this fall under fair use? Like isn't there a Lantern Corps pics with (amongst others) Daffy Duck and Optimus Prime as members, neither of which are owned by DC.

There might have been, but remember that cross overs are a thing; it is possible that DC was given permission to use those characters, much like how MK and DC crossed over.

I don't think such permission was given for the tau vehicles, which are blatantly Tau. Like, it even has the little Tau symbol.

Warner bros owns DC and MK. No permission needed; they can be interchanged as much as they want. Sub Zero just can't debone a super hero in game.

I don't work in the comic industry but I do know there is a low end of artists that will use tracing and 3d models and call it their art work.

Here is an example of the exact model in question for the Poser 3d program

http://www.sharecg.com/v/79210/browse/11/Poser/DEVILFISH-TAU-Warhammer40k-3d

I guess it beats having to draw something difficult when you have a deadline to meet.

Also think at one point there was an artist that drew a complete comic via similar software.

Wow that is blatantly Tau. Symbol and everything. Maybe someone at Marvel is poking the bear? But in this case it's a Grizzly poking a Black Bear.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So I can start using clone troopers, storm troopers & Jedi aslong as I put my own people into it. cool.

If you're taking legal advice from a toy soldier forum? Sure!

Sneak some guys in white armor and some other guys with kimonos and laser swords into the background of a comic, you might get away with it. If it ever came to court you just say they're aliens you created based on old Flash Gordon serials and samurai films. Short of the characters openly saying "Hi we're some Jedi and Clone Troopers illegally ripped off from the Star Wars universe" it would be very hard for someone to win damages.

Now if you want to keep going, using the example of the Squadron Supreme, you can get away with it if...

You tinker with the designs.

Use different names.

Over time turn them into something else.

The Squadron Supreme started as a JLA rip off, 100%. I mean that was the whole point of them.

I mean I was in grade school when this came out and I said 'why is Marvel publishing a JLA book'?



But the did the JLA ever conquer the world to save it? Was Batman ever elected president? Did they ever brainwash supervillains into joining their team? And (working off the Supreme Power reboot now) was Superman secretly raised by the CIA? Did Wonder Woman drain cultists of their life force to remain immortal?

Then, well, they're not the JLA.

So if Marvel really wants to stick to their guns on this, there is a path forward.

Man, that is some dreadful, dreadful comic art. I know vehicles are tough to draw and deadlines are tight and all, but that's pretty damn lousy work. "Poor video game webcomic" isn't something I'd want to see in an official Marvel print comic. Even worse how they tried changing up the doors (seemingly in an effort to skirt copyright laws). Now there's no inside of the ship! You can see the wall behind it thru it. It's that weird one-dimensionality thing with video game renders, which further betrays how much of a lazy cheat this "art" is.

The bolt pistol looks utterly ridiculous, too, and kinda hilarious because it shoots actual bolts which leads me to believe Google failed the artist there. Please tell me that's just a sign stuck on the top, and not a 'real' feature...

 Imposter101 wrote:
I'm going on tracing. There's a really terrible example of a frame from some Marvel(?) comic where a guy used the Star Wars Lego Snow Speeder as a basis for ship of some form - with the studs and all. The messed up 3d proportions and look of the craft really add to that feel.

*looks this up*
So, not as blatant as the Tau ship, but still pretty awful.

There is a difference between the idea of a super team and a specific piece of mechanical design. You can't copyright an idea. You can only copyright specific expressions of ideas. The Tau Skyray is a specific expression of the idea of a future tank vehicle.

Marvel recently did a take on the Justice League called the Great Society. Everyone was there: The Norn (Dr. Fate), Doctor Spectrum (Green Lantern), The Rider (Batman), Sun God (Superman), The Jovian (Martian Manhunter) and Boundless (the Flash).

But they weren't just another company's imagery taken wholesale and given a different name.

That Skyray is, well, a Skyray. No two ways about it.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
There is a difference between the idea of a super team and a specific piece of mechanical design. You can't copyright an idea. You can only copyright specific expressions of ideas. The Tau Skyray is a specific expression of the idea of a future tank vehicle.

Can you copyright a design or only specific images?

It seems I can take a picture of a bunch of my toys/minis/etc and then market or sell that picture as long as I am the one who created the image.

No?

I can even do a Twisted Toyfare Threater/Robot Chicken type story with them as long as it is parody or I'm not creating a derived work (ie that's a Darth vader action figure but it's not Darth Vader, that's Evil Space Dude).

Robot Chicken is parody. They're not putting Superman on screen and claiming it to be their own.

A design can be copyrighted, and so can individual images.

The ability to use copyright works to create derivative works depends on a lot of factors, so it's not a simple thing to work out.

Parody, for example, implies the inclusion of some element actually of parody, which clearly isn't the case in this Marvel comic.

If Marvel want to defend their case, it would have to go to court for a final judgement, but as I mentioned earlier, it would be much better for both sides to agree a token payment than to spend a lot of money fighting about it.

Copyrighted cameos surely have to be covered under fair use, right? I mean, I'm sure we've all seen the Enterprise or an X-Wing outside their own franchises. So a Tau ship appearing in the "wrong" place in of itself isn't an issue. However, THIS Tau ship is clearly ripped from a game's files (or maybe it's a fan's render? doesn't make much of a difference in this case), so instead of a fun reference it's flat-out plagiarism.

Cameos aren't covered by fair use.

This isn't a cameo. It's just a lazy artist's rip of GW's Tau stuff.

 Rootbeard wrote:
Man, that is some dreadful, dreadful comic art. I know vehicles are tough to draw and deadlines are tight and all, but that's pretty damn lousy work. "Poor video game webcomic" isn't something I'd want to see in an official Marvel print comic. Even worse how they tried changing up the doors (seemingly in an effort to skirt copyright laws). Now there's no inside of the ship! You can see the wall behind it thru it. It's that weird one-dimensionality thing with video game renders, which further betrays how much of a lazy cheat this "art" is.

The bolt pistol looks utterly ridiculous, too, and kinda hilarious because it shoots actual bolts which leads me to believe Google failed the artist there. Please tell me that's just a sign stuck on the top, and not a 'real' feature...

 Imposter101 wrote:
I'm going on tracing. There's a really terrible example of a frame from some Marvel(?) comic where a guy used the Star Wars Lego Snow Speeder as a basis for ship of some form - with the studs and all. The messed up 3d proportions and look of the craft really add to that feel.

*looks this up*
So, not as blatant as the Tau ship, but still pretty awful.

I don't think the issue with the doors, engines, and drones was intentional. I suspect when the (lazy) artist loaded up the 3d model in their program of choice, something about the import borked up the data and loaded those components at the wrong size. (Someone earlier in the thread posted the actual 3d model link, and in that one the doors/drones/engines are the correct size).

How the artist didn't notice that you could see through the goddamn model is beyond me though.

Also, that snowspeeder one is just terrible. I might not have noticed it on a first read, but now that I've seen it it's so damn blatant.

You are speaking about "bigger fish", but shouldn't the Justice be blind to money ?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Cameos aren't covered by fair use.

This isn't a cameo. It's just a lazy artist's rip of GW's Tau stuff.

And generally, when you're dealing with a cameo, it's something like, a shot of a big number of ships, and there's a few immediately recognizable ones included in the background. Or a robot junkyard, with a few recognixable examples scattered amongst the wrecks. Or a random blue police call box sitting innocously at the back of the set. That's an homage, and it generally doesn't bother people because it's a bit of harmless fun paying tribute to what's come before. If instead, a ship that looked a lot like the Enterpise was the center of the shot, and then it zoomed in to show the characters on a bridge that looked remarkably like the Enterpise Paramount is going to get cranky.