Warhammer 40,000 FAQ Draft p58 Chaos daemons

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**kryczek**

Yeah this is going to need some work but it's encouraging to see them engage us at least. A few good clear up's so far and as you say the grenades thing kind of makes sense. It does just help to know how they themselves view/play the game.

**Uriels_Flame**

Why do people keep saying a supplement which states it replaces actual rules as optional?

**MrFlutterPie**

I think the grenade thing could be good as it ups vehicle and dred survivability quite a bit.

Specific units like like Tankbustas could be potentially addressed in codex to only buff certain units.

**Cruentus**

Uriels_Flame wrote:
Why do people keep saying a supplement which states it replaces actual rules as optional?

Uh, if people don't actually buy the book, then how exactly does it become rules? I don't know anyone in my group buying it, so we'll keep playing as we are now. We miss out on any flyer updates, but thems the breaks.

**quickfuze**

Cruentus wrote:
Uriels_Flame wrote:
Why do people keep saying a supplement which states it replaces actual rules as optional?

Uh, if people don't actually buy the book, then how exactly does it become rules? I don't know anyone in my group buying it, so we'll keep playing as we are now. We miss out on any flyer updates, but thems the breaks.

Good luck with that...I guess you don't play in tournaments.

**Slayer le boucher**

About the Nades, yes the rule was allready going in that way apparently, but the use of the word "thrown" confused everyone in thinkin that it was only for the shooting phase, when it kinda makes sens, you throw a grenade at something.

And everyone i know always played like you guys though, each model can make oe attack with a grenade, that will be a big chane around here.

But this kind of things can happen with lots of rules.

We recently discovered that a unit that rallied themselfs can nearly do anything like normal( except moving) not just models with ATSKNF, but everyone.

Someone pointed it out to use and we've gone through the rulebook, all of us though that a unit that rallied, could only move 3" and do nothing else, no shooting, no assaulting etc, and that only Marines could do it because of ATSKNF.

But apparently ATSKNF jus allows marines to move normaly on top of the rest.

Once again, a rule that wasn't really advertized as been changed from previous editions, whas just taken for granted an we never looked at it twice.

**Azreal13**

quickfuze wrote:
Cruentus wrote:
Uriels_Flame wrote:
Why do people keep saying a supplement which states it replaces actual rules as optional?

Uh, if people don't actually buy the book, then how exactly does it become rules? I don't know anyone in my group buying it, so we'll keep playing as we are now. We miss out on any flyer updates, but thems the breaks.

Good luck with that...I guess you don't play in tournaments.

Yeah, cause this book was everywhere...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/503221.page

Don't play in tourneys, don't expect DftS to be widely used in them regardless.

**Leth**

Stomps are specifically referencing getting out of combat at I1, nothing really special there.

Grenades as others have mentioned was already listed in the book(a LOT of things in some books make sense now lol).

Overall pretty pumped with the clarifications, some I dont agree with but rather have something than nothing. Especially with the IC's and factions and bubbles. Makes certain auras crazy good(see dark shrouds) and others knocked down a peg(see culexus). I am actually pretty happy about the grenade changes, makes vehicles a bit more survivable.

Well done GW, keep it up!!

**pretre**

MadCowCrazy wrote:
So my Saint Celestine can declare a charge against 10 different units? She moves into base contact with one unit and the rest has to pile into her?

This ruling is very dumb and you need to rewrite the rules for multi assaults to do this. Do you have to get into base contact with all units you are charging? What if you roll a 6" distance which gets you into contact with one unit but not the other(s)?

No, just no.

That's not how it works. You can declare a disordered charge against 10 units, they all get to overwatch you and then you only contact one with Celestine (maybe 2) and only lock those two. The rest laugh at you. The 2 or more units thing is for oval bases and big bases to contact two or more units that are close together, not declare charges against everything.

**gungo**

insaniak wrote:
oni wrote:

Q: Is the maximum number of powers a Psyker can use in their turn equal to their Mastery Level, or the number of powers they have (due to Psychic Focus they often have one more power than their Mastery Level)?
A: Unless explicitly permitted to do so, Psykers may not attempt to manifest more psychic powers than the number of their Mastery Level within a single Psychic phase.

YES! Finally! To all who thought differently... SUCK IT!

For what it's worth, those who thought differently, did so because the rules imposed no such limitation. This is a rules change, not a vindication of previous arguments.

They made a seperate page for the two errata.
This was not one of them.
This was a faq.
As in they wrote the rule and intended the rule to be this way.
That is not a change. At worse it was not clear.

**insaniak**

gungo wrote:

They made a seperate page for the two errata.
This was not one of them.
This was a faq.
As in they wrote the rule and intended the rule to be this way.
That is not a change. At worse it was not clear.

If an FAQ entry changes the way a rule works, then it's a rules change, regardless of whether or not GW choose to label it as 'errata'.

GW have a long, long history of changing rules in FAQs.

Slayer le boucher wrote:
Someone pointed it out to use and we've gone through the rulebook, all of us though that a unit that rallied, could only move 3" and do nothing else, no shooting, no assaulting etc, and that only Marines could do it because of ATSKNF.

But apparently ATSKNF jus allows marines to move normaly on top of the rest.

Once again, a rule that wasn't really advertized as been changed from previous editions, whas just taken for granted an we never looked at it twice.

Sounds like you may have been playing it wrong in previous editions as well...

Rallying has never forced units to do nothing else that turn.

**casvalremdeikun**

ERJAK wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:

Flyers/FMCs with template and blast weapons can hit other Flyers/FMCs. Baleflamer buff! Also, Plasma Cannon Stormravens just became a thing. Also, the Helfrost weapons on the Space Wolf flyers became potent.

NOPE. Remeber that most flyers lost skyfire with death in the skies. Non of those weapons will be able to hit any flyer ever anyway still.

Yeah, I couldn't care less about Death From The Skies. It is an optional supplement just like Cities of Death. The fact the supplement is gak when my opponent or I bring something Forgeworld makes it even less of an issue.

**Raesvelg**

Slayer le boucher wrote:

Someone pointed it out to use and we've gone through the rulebook, all of us though that a unit that rallied, could only move 3" and do nothing else, no shooting, no assaulting etc, and that only Marines could do it because of ATSKNF.

But apparently ATSKNF jus allows marines to move normaly on top of the rest.

Once again, a rule that wasn't really advertized as been changed from previous editions, whas just taken for granted an we never looked at it twice.

Uh, what?

"Once a unit has Regrouped, it cannot otherwise move (so cannot Run in the Shooting
phase or charge in the Assault phase). However, it can shoot (including Overwatch), but
counts as having moved and can only fire Snap Shots."

That seems... fairly clear on what a Regrouped unit can, and can not do. Specifically no movement, no Assault, and Snap Shots only.

ATSKNF lets Marines act normally, but if you don't have it, you're pretty gimped.

**gungo**

MrFlutterPie wrote:
I think the grenade thing could be good as it ups vehicle and dred survivability quite a bit.

Specific units like like Tankbustas could be potentially addressed in codex to only buff certain units.

Dreads issue is they are slow and get shot to death. I really haven't had a lot of issues with them dying in combat.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

insaniak wrote:
gungo wrote:

They made a seperate page for the two errata.
This was not one of them.
This was a faq.
As in they wrote the rule and intended the rule to be this way.
That is not a change. At worse it was not clear.

If an FAQ entry changes the way a rule works, then it's a rules change, regardless of whether or not GW choose to label it as 'errata'.

GW have a long, long history of changing rules in FAQs.

Slayer le boucher wrote:
Someone pointed it out to use and we've gone through the rulebook, all of us though that a unit that rallied, could only move 3" and do nothing else, no shooting, no assaulting etc, and that only Marines could do it because of ATSKNF.

But apparently ATSKNF jus allows marines to move normaly on top of the rest.

Once again, a rule that wasn't really advertized as been changed from previous editions, whas just taken for granted an we never looked at it twice.

Sounds like you may have been playing it wrong in previous editions as well...

Rallying has never forced units to do nothing else that turn.

If the way the rule works clearly had people arguing otherwise then it was a faq.
Because the rule was written to be read in the way they intended it and wasn't a rule change.
I don't understand how people keep arguing thier opinion is somehow more relevant then an obvious labeled faq and insist there must be a rule change because God forbid they were wrong.
I'm sorry but people were arguing this rule in ymdc threads which means it was never a rule change. You just read it wrong. It's ok GW wrote a faq to make it clearer.

**oni**

insaniak wrote:
oni wrote:

Q: Is the maximum number of powers a Psyker can use in their turn equal to their Mastery Level, or the number of powers they have (due to Psychic Focus they often have one more power than their Mastery Level)?
A: Unless explicitly permitted to do so, Psykers may not attempt to manifest more psychic powers than the number of their Mastery Level within a single Psychic phase.

YES! Finally! To all who thought differently... SUCK IT!

For what it's worth, those who thought differently, did so because the rules imposed no such limitation. This is a rules change, not a vindication of previous arguments.

Yea, actually it did and it's a FAQ, not errata or an amendment, but you keep doing you sport. You'll get it right someday.

davou wrote:
oni wrote:

Q: A ruin (e.g. a Shrine of the Aquila) is treated as difficult terrain, but does this mean that models can move through the walls?
A: No.

WHAT? The rulebook explicitly says I CAN go through walls. Are they reneging this, WTF?

I found d it in the 6th Ed book, but not in the new one, do you have a screen grab for it?

The 6th rulebook gave a nice narrative explanation, but the explanation is all that's missing from 7th.
7th book, Page 21, Moving Through Terrain. "...models can move through, up or over any terrain they encounter, unless the terrain is noted as being impassable."
The Shrine is a Ruin, ruins are only difficult terrain, not impassable (page 108).

This answer is a massive error and seems to stem from the writers personal opinion, not necessarily clarifying RAW/RAI. There is zero basis to say that a unit cannot move through the wall. If you agree with the FAQ, that you cannot move through the wall, please make a case with a rule citation.

**Uriels_Flame**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:

Flyers/FMCs with template and blast weapons can hit other Flyers/FMCs. Baleflamer buff! Also, Plasma Cannon Stormravens just became a thing. Also, the Helfrost weapons on the Space Wolf flyers became potent.

NOPE. Remeber that most flyers lost skyfire with death in the skies. Non of those weapons will be able to hit any flyer ever anyway still.

Yeah, I couldn't care less about Death From The Skies. It is an optional supplement just like Cities of Death. The fact the supplement is gak when my opponent or I bring something Forgeworld makes it even less of an issue.

There's tha word again- optional - ...where is this coming from? Everything I have seen says this replaces current flier rules.

**insaniak**

oni wrote:

This answer is a massive error and seems to stem from the writers personal opinion, not necessarily clarifying RAW/RAI. There is zero basis to say that a unit cannot move through the wall. If you agree with the FAQ, that you cannot move through the wall, please make a case with a rule citation.

Well, it's an FAQ, not an errata or an amendment... so clearly it's how the rule was always supposed to be...

**oni**

insaniak wrote:
oni wrote:

This answer is a massive error and seems to stem from the writers personal opinion, not necessarily clarifying RAW/RAI. There is zero basis to say that a unit cannot move through the wall. If you agree with the FAQ, that you cannot move through the wall, please make a case with a rule citation.

Well, it's an FAQ, not an errata or an amendment... so clearly it's how the rule was always supposed to be...

LOL... Well played.

**DarknessEternal**

Uriels_Flame wrote:

There's tha word again- optional - ...where is this coming from? Everything I have seen says this replaces current flier rules.

This very FAQ said it was optional.

**Spellbound**

Experiment 626 wrote:
VeteranNoob wrote:
Wonder what the codexes(?) will look like.

Codex Chaos Space Marines: just stop playing guys, we're sorry, but you suck too much at this point to be fixed!

You kidding? Sonic blasts now hit all levels. KILL THEM ALL!!!

**Crimson Devil**

Uriels_Flame wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:

Flyers/FMCs with template and blast weapons can hit other Flyers/FMCs. Baleflamer buff! Also, Plasma Cannon Stormravens just became a thing. Also, the Helfrost weapons on the Space Wolf flyers became potent.

NOPE. Remeber that most flyers lost skyfire with death in the skies. Non of those weapons will be able to hit any flyer ever anyway still.

Yeah, I couldn't care less about Death From The Skies. It is an optional supplement just like Cities of Death. The fact the supplement is gak when my opponent or I bring something Forgeworld makes it even less of an issue.

There's tha word again- optional - ...where is this coming from? Everything I have seen says this replaces current flier rules.

Its quite simple. GW encourages us to "Forge the Narrative" TM in 7th edition. The narrative we are choosing to forge is; GW releases crap product, we keep our money.

**Uriels_Flame**

DarknessEternal wrote:
Uriels_Flame wrote:

There's tha word again- optional - ...where is this coming from? Everything I have seen says this replaces current flier rules.

This very FAQ said it was optional.

This first draft said it was optional? Someone with FB ask this question please?

**pretre**

Uriels_Flame wrote:
DarknessEternal wrote:
Uriels_Flame wrote:

There's tha word again- optional - ...where is this coming from? Everything I have seen says this replaces current flier rules.

This very FAQ said it was optional.

This first draft said it was optional? Someone with FB ask this question please?

Hey everyone,
Our rules guys have the first of the Warhammer 40,000 FAQ drafts for you guys to feed back on.
We got so many questions for this game, that we’re going to be asking for feedback on the answers one book at a time. We’re starting with the big one: the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

Do the answers all make sense? Are they clear?
(We’re looking for whether you understand them rather than if you like the answer.)

Here’s what you need to do

- Read through this draft FAQ

- If you think any answers need clarification, post up a comment on the relevant image

- Make sure your question is concisely written, and in plain English

We’ll leave these up for a week, then we’ll pass on your comments to the rules guys for the final FAQs.
We’ll be posting more FAQ drafts for feedback over the new few weeks for our Warhammer 40,000 Codex titles.

Finally, we wanted to say thanks again to all of you who sent in our questions, to help make this game well all love even better.

If you are at all unsure, this is the Warhammer 40,000 title this FAQ is for.

**axisofentropy**

Sarigar wrote:
Frozocrone wrote:
buddha wrote:
If there is no correction to the grenade ruling then walkers and mech armies got a good boost. I'm thinking armored company in particular.

Sounds fun. Vehicles that aren't Flyers or Super Heavies also get toe in cover saves now

No. Vehicle rules are still unchanged in regards to cover. Those rules were never in question.

This is an open question. Here's the line from the Terrain FAQ (bolded the funny parts):

Q: Do Flyers, Super-heavy vehicles, Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures and Gargantuan Creatures gain cover while standing on the ‘base’ of a terrain piece, e.g. ruins or dense thickets, or do they need to be at least 25% obscured by the scenery for cover to apply?
A: The 25% rule applies in all types of terrain if the target is a Flyer, Super-heavy Vehicle, Flying Monstrous Creature or Gargantuan Creature. All other targets count as being in cover if they are in or on the terrain’s base, even if not 25% obsured.[sic]

"All others" would seem to include vehicles smaller than super-heavy. Yes that does seem to contradict the original rulebook.

**casvalremdeikun**

Uriels_Flame wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:

Flyers/FMCs with template and blast weapons can hit other Flyers/FMCs. Baleflamer buff! Also, Plasma Cannon Stormravens just became a thing. Also, the Helfrost weapons on the Space Wolf flyers became potent.

NOPE. Remeber that most flyers lost skyfire with death in the skies. Non of those weapons will be able to hit any flyer ever anyway still.

Yeah, I couldn't care less about Death From The Skies. It is an optional supplement just like Cities of Death. The fact the supplement is gak when my opponent or I bring something Forgeworld makes it even less of an issue.

There's tha word again- optional - ...where is this coming from? Everything I have seen says this replaces current flier rules.

Well, considering that the rule that says that all flyers datasheets are replaced are in the supplement, it will remain optional. Until they release a ruling that says that I MUST use Death From the Skies if I play using a flyer, it will always remain optional.

**chaosmarauder**

Tankbustas took a hit BUT...... deffdreads and killa kanz just got way better!

**Requizen**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Uriels_Flame wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:

Flyers/FMCs with template and blast weapons can hit other Flyers/FMCs. Baleflamer buff! Also, Plasma Cannon Stormravens just became a thing. Also, the Helfrost weapons on the Space Wolf flyers became potent.

NOPE. Remeber that most flyers lost skyfire with death in the skies. Non of those weapons will be able to hit any flyer ever anyway still.

Yeah, I couldn't care less about Death From The Skies. It is an optional supplement just like Cities of Death. The fact the supplement is gak when my opponent or I bring something Forgeworld makes it even less of an issue.

There's tha word again- optional - ...where is this coming from? Everything I have seen says this replaces current flier rules.
Well, considering that the rule that says that all flyers datasheets are replaced are in the supplement, it will remain optional. Until they release a ruling that says that I MUST use Death From the Skies if I play using a flyer, it will always remain optional.

All the rules that replace any previous rules are in new books. It's like saying you can use the previous version of Tyranids because you don't choose to buy the new book and therefore the rules don't apply to you.

**blaktoof**

Imateria wrote:
I think the Hemlock Wraithfighter might have just become the best anti-flyer in the game, Strength D blasts can now be fired at other flyers with Skyfire (so long as your not using Death from the Skies, a supplement I expect to never see getting used).

DFTS is not a supplement

Black legion
Crimson Slaughter
the Tyranid/BA campaign books
Kauyon campaign book
and
Angels of death are supplements however.

oh and Haemonoculus covens and Waaagh Ghaz

Not sure why people keep acting like DFTS is optional, its as optional as angels of death is optional. Probably less so since its not listed as a supplement.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarknessEternal wrote:
Uriels_Flame wrote:

There's tha word again- optional - ...where is this coming from? Everything I have seen says this replaces current flier rules.

This very FAQ said it was optional.

Can you quote that? I don't see any such statement in any part of this faq, unless there is a new draft already.

**Trasvi**

pretre wrote:
MadCowCrazy wrote:
So my Saint Celestine can declare a charge against 10 different units? She moves into base contact with one unit and the rest has to pile into her?

This ruling is very dumb and you need to rewrite the rules for multi assaults to do this. Do you have to get into base contact with all units you are charging? What if you roll a 6" distance which gets you into contact with one unit but not the other(s)?

No, just no.

That's not how it works. You can declare a disordered charge against 10 units, they all get to overwatch you and then you only contact one with Celestine (maybe 2) and only lock those two. The rest laugh at you. The 2 or more units thing is for oval bases and big bases to contact two or more units that are close together, not declare charges against everything.

It's still directly contradictory with the existing assault phase rules.
You cannot charge a second target unless the model cannot make it in to BTB with an unengaged enemy model in the primary target. The initial charger must move the closest distance to the primary target - if he can't reach the charge fails.
Therefore its impossible to be able to contact a secondary target with the initial charger.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I noticed this change...

Q: Does Jinking prevents a Flying Monstrous Creature from Vector Striking?
A: Yes.

??? Where does this come from? Why is it even a question?

**Matt.Kingsley**

The correlation is that Vector Striking stops a FMC from using 1 gun in the shooting phase.

Someone probably asked it because they thought it didn't forge the correct narrative

.