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gungo wrote:
I think the grenade change is good for the meta a bit. Things like dreads get ambit better. I know this screws over a handful of units. But those units tended to be the stronger units in thier codex.

Still waiting to hear the new codex rulings too.
Good stuff all around

Ork players thank you for your understanding, I'm glad our codex is now more internally balanced.

Wow, a lot of good questions, but so many duff ones.

Puzzled at all the rules changes though.

I do hope they follow it up with a substantial Codex FAQ/changes.

 DalinCriid wrote:
"Q: Can a Fortification Scout?
A: No."


Seriously!?!?!?

It's actually an entirely reasonable question: Scout moves occur before the battle as a redeployment, and the majority of fortifications are prefabricated buildings erected for a given battle.

There's nothing unfluffy about having set up your bunker a bit further into no-man's land. It only gets silly if you imagine it physically waddling into place just before everyone engages.

Mr Morden wrote:Q: Can units that are Battle Brothers embark in each other’s Transport vehicles during deployment?
A: No.

No more Drop pod fun then???

So I think everyone is freaking out ... HOWEVER... my group and I were looking at it, and we think you can still have units in reserves in each others transports... here is our arguement.

Q: Can units that are Battle Brothers embark in each other’s Transport vehicles during deployment?
A: No.

On another page...

Q: Can you clarify the term ‘deploy’?
A: ‘Deploy’ is a word for setting up a unit on the battlefield – this is something you do during deployment, but also when units arrive from Reserve and so on. ‘Deployment’ is the stage in ‘Preparing For Battle’ where the players set up their armies on the battlefield.

Note the bold.. and refrence back to the BB rule. Given that deployment is specifically the preparing for battle stage, and the BB FAQ states that you may not use transports during DEPLOYMENT only... Then you are still able to otherwise deploy units in shared tranports through reserves. ala War convocation in pods.. Wraith in raiders... whatever have you is all still fine if coming from reserves.

Cheers!

 kronk wrote:

And they've clarified that, no, really, Shrike can't join non-infiltrating units during deployment, the scallywag!

So this is a clarification I asked for on that page... under ICs they basically make it seem this way... however, in the infiltrate FAQ they say...

Q: Are models with the Infiltrate special rule allowed to not use the rule to deploy and then charge normally in the first turn?
A: Yes

So does that mean that I can choose to deploy normally and have shrike be with his jump buddies?

 kronk wrote:

And they've clarified that, no, really, Shrike can't join non-infiltrating units during deployment, the scallywag!

So this is a clarification I asked for on that page... under ICs they basically make it seem this way... however, in the infiltrate FAQ they say...

Q: Are models with the Infiltrate special rule allowed to not use the rule to deploy and then charge normally in the first turn?
A: Yes

So does that mean that I can choose to deploy normally and have shrike be with his jump buddies?

Speaking of Scout moves and allied transports, could Skitarii use their Scout move to embark onto allied Rhinos after deployment but before the first player turn?

I don't even play Blood Angels, but I can't wait for that one.

It will either quietly murder most of the crying or be the biggest troll of all time.

Hopefully, at least, my brothers from another primarch get some Contemptor/Cataphractii/better scout love.

 Gus_Papas wrote:
Speaking of Scout moves and allied transports, could Skitarii use their Scout move to embark onto allied Rhinos after deployment but before the first player turn?

So I think embarkation only happens during your movement phase... so in this case you could start next to a bunch of empty rhinos and then on turn 1 embark into them and then start driving up the field.. OR you can just come from reserves as my argument above states =)

 Grizzyzz wrote:

Spoiler:

Mr Morden wrote:Q: Can units that are Battle Brothers embark in each other’s Transport vehicles during deployment?
A: No.

No more Drop pod fun then???

So I think everyone is freaking out ... HOWEVER... my group and I were looking at it, and we think you can still have units in reserves in each others transports... here is our arguement.

Q: Can units that are Battle Brothers embark in each other’s Transport vehicles during deployment?
A: No.

On another page...

Q: Can you clarify the term ‘deploy’?
A: ‘Deploy’ is a word for setting up a unit on the battlefield – this is something you do during deployment, but also when units arrive from Reserve and so on. ‘Deployment’ is the stage in ‘Preparing For Battle’ where the players set up their armies on the battlefield.

Note the bold.. and refrence back to the BB rule. Given that deployment is specifically the preparing for battle stage, and the BB FAQ states that you may not use transports during DEPLOYMENT only... Then you are still able to otherwise deploy units in shared tranports through reserves. ala War convocation in pods.. Wraith in raiders... whatever have you is all still fine if coming from reserves.

Cheers!

 kronk wrote:

And they've clarified that, no, really, Shrike can't join non-infiltrating units during deployment, the scallywag!

So this is a clarification I asked for on that page... under ICs they basically make it seem this way... however, in the infiltrate FAQ they say...

Q: Are models with the Infiltrate special rule allowed to not use the rule to deploy and then charge normally in the first turn?
A: Yes

So does that mean that I can choose to deploy normally and have shrike be with his jump buddies?

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 Gus_Papas wrote:
Speaking of Scout moves and allied transports, could Skitarii use their Scout move to embark onto allied Rhinos after deployment but before the first player turn?

So I think embarkation only happens during your movement phase... so in this case you could start next to a bunch of empty rhinos and then on turn 1 embark into them and then start driving up the field.. OR you can just come from reserves as my argument above states =)

I read your comment a few times and I agree that RAW that approach definitely works, but it seems to violate RAI. It seems weird to me that they'd forbid starting inside allied transports during deployment but still let you drive on/drop pod on from reserves in an allied transport.

I have a feeling the writers also see moving on from reserves as 'deployment', since "'Deploy' - is something you do during deployment, but also when units arrive from Reserve and so on..." ie, deploying units via reserves is the same action as deploying in the deployment phase, therefore the same restrictions apply. Does that make sense?

Regarding starting outside transports and then embarking during movement, obviously that works but then if one doesn't have first turn their little spindly T3 dudes have to weather a round of shooting before they can embark, making coming on from reserves like you suggested an appealing option but, as above, one I'm not sure really works. This FAQ might need a FAQ

Hi all. I am new here, but I have 2 questions after reading these FAQs.

First, what happens when a unit disembarks from a transport that chose to jink in the previous turn. Do they forced to snap-shot? According to the FAQ, yes :(
Second, what happens, if psyker, that is forced to do snap-shots want to cast a witchfire, that does not roll to hit? Cause after this FAQ, you can't cast shriek from a jinking transport, or if you disembark from one (or if you fail a leadership test after crew shaken/stunned, etc.)

Overall I am happy about the answers, but these 2 had me scratching my head.

 Grizzyzz wrote:

Mr Morden wrote:Q: Can units that are Battle Brothers embark in each other’s Transport vehicles during deployment?
A: No.

No more Drop pod fun then???

So I think everyone is freaking out ... HOWEVER... my group and I were looking at it, and we think you can still have units in reserves in each others transports... here is our arguement.

Q: Can units that are Battle Brothers embark in each other’s Transport vehicles during deployment?
A: No.

On another page...

Q: Can you clarify the term ‘deploy’?
A: ‘Deploy’ is a word for setting up a unit on the battlefield – this is something you do during deployment, but also when units arrive from Reserve and so on. ‘Deployment’ is the stage in ‘Preparing For Battle’ where the players set up their armies on the battlefield.

Note the bold.. and refrence back to the BB rule. Given that deployment is specifically the preparing for battle stage, and the BB FAQ states that you may not use transports during DEPLOYMENT only... Then you are still able to otherwise deploy units in shared tranports through reserves. ala War convocation in pods.. Wraith in raiders... whatever have you is all still fine if coming from reserves.

Cheers!

That's not how I see it. Their intention is clear - no sharing transports during deployment. You need to name what goes inside a Drop pod during deployment, not when it's deployed in the game - the same way you need to declare what's going to reserves and how it'll enter the field of battle during deployment. You don't declare, at turn 3, that your units in reserve will suddenly Outflank; you already told that to your opponent during the deployment, before the game started.

skoffs wrote:
Sounds like something that should be asked on the FB page (on one of the pages in question) so they can clarify.

We did ask for further clarification. =)

Vector Strike wrote:

That's not how I see it. Their intention is clear - no sharing transports during deployment. You need to name what goes inside a Drop pod during deployment, not when it's deployed in the game - the same way you need to declare what's going to reserves and how it'll enter the field of battle during deployment. You don't declare, at turn 3, that your units in reserve will suddenly Outflank; you already told that to your opponent during the deployment, before the game started.

That is fine. One reason we asked GW for clarification and I wanted to post on here. "Different Eyes" etc etc.

I posted this in YMDC and someone posted a similar response on what you stated. We did read that during our discussion. Initially it seemed to be fine with *my argument above*, however after reading it again and again and having you guys state it.. I am questioning myself.

All part of the process!

So here's a question: if a unit with multiple factions gains both factions, can it then use EITHER faction's dedicated transports, or NEITHER (with the rule about deploying in BB transports)?

the_scotsman wrote:
So here's a question: if a unit with multiple factions gains both factions, can it then use EITHER faction's dedicated transports, or NEITHER (with the rule about deploying in BB transports)?

I was thinking about this as well... So lets give an easy example and not space marines.. simpler then that.

Eldar guardians in a wave serpant. Is a Dark eldar Archon not allowed to join this unit and be embarked in that units transport?

IC rule states that when joined to a unit it is part of that unit for all rule purposes.. However as you stated, that unit retains it's faction status'.. in this example both Eldar and Deldar. And they are battle brothers... so would it be the case even that the gaurdians with an archon can't even embark on their own transport then?

This is the kind of questions we should post there, so they can notice this stuff

I did. I used the example of a Dark Eldar Archon joining a squad of Harlequins and deploying them in a Raider.

 Vector Strike wrote:
This is the kind of questions we should post there, so they can notice this stuff

Already did this as well =)

So I think it is safe to say that (and i am not directing this at you... its happened all over) if someone asks a question here... the replies really shouldn't be .. "ask GW".. because in most cases through these 11 pages.. people are asking GW, but they just want another set of eyes to look at it or bring it up so others who have not thought about it can go and comment/like the FB post to get GW to see its importance.

@ Vector Strike re: Deployment

Your interpretation makes a lot of sense, thanks for bringing up more points/articulating your argument better than I could. I think it's fair to say that GW only wants allies embarking on each other's transports once the models have already hit the table.

edit

I also rechecked my BRB and embarking is explicitly forbidden during a Scout redeployment so it looks like Skitarii players are SOL until they get their own dedicated transports, as their units will always start the game disembarked, ouch.

gery81 wrote:
Hi all. I am new here, but I have 2 questions after reading these FAQs.

First, what happens when a unit disembarks from a transport that chose to jink in the previous turn. Do they forced to snap-shot? According to the FAQ, yes :(
Second, what happens, if psyker, that is forced to do snap-shots want to cast a witchfire, that does not roll to hit? Cause after this FAQ, you can't cast shriek from a jinking transport, or if you disembark from one (or if you fail a leadership test after crew shaken/stunned, etc.)

Overall I am happy about the answers, but these 2 had me scratching my head.

These are great questions, it seems that you are correct but it might not be what they intended. you should ask them on the FB page so they can include them in the final versions in case they didn't think about it.

 Grizzyzz wrote:

Mr Morden wrote:Q: Can units that are Battle Brothers embark in each other’s Transport vehicles during deployment?
A: No.

No more Drop pod fun then???

So I think everyone is freaking out ... HOWEVER... my group and I were looking at it, and we think you can still have units in reserves in each others transports... here is our arguement.

Q: Can units that are Battle Brothers embark in each other’s Transport vehicles during deployment?
A: No.

On another page...

Q: Can you clarify the term ‘deploy’?
A: ‘Deploy’ is a word for setting up a unit on the battlefield – this is something you do during deployment, but also when units arrive from Reserve and so on. ‘Deployment’ is the stage in ‘Preparing For Battle’ where the players set up their armies on the battlefield.

Note the bold.. and refrence back to the BB rule. Given that deployment is specifically the preparing for battle stage, and the BB FAQ states that you may not use transports during DEPLOYMENT only... Then you are still able to otherwise deploy units in shared tranports through reserves. ala War convocation in pods.. Wraith in raiders... whatever have you is all still fine if coming from reserves.

Cheers!

 kronk wrote:

And they've clarified that, no, really, Shrike can't join non-infiltrating units during deployment, the scallywag!

So this is a clarification I asked for on that page... under ICs they basically make it seem this way... however, in the infiltrate FAQ they say...

Q: Are models with the Infiltrate special rule allowed to not use the rule to deploy and then charge normally in the first turn?
A: Yes

So does that mean that I can choose to deploy normally and have shrike be with his jump buddies?

And this is why we have to have a 41 page faq just on the brb. People STILL trying to force what they want into the rules. The intention is clear....If you have to start using "timing" to justify the result you want....you're wrong.

 quickfuze wrote:

And this is why we have to have a 41 page faq just on the brb. People STILL trying to force what they want into the rules. The intention is clear....If you have to start using "timing" to justify the result you want....you're wrong.

I could use the same argument in why this was on the FAQ to begin with? was it ever not clear that you could use each others transports? And it is not for me to gain.. I play Tau and Eldar as my mains.. I actually feel really bad for all the Skittari players who don't have transports of their own.. =/




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mymearan wrote:

gery81 wrote:
Hi all. I am new here, but I have 2 questions after reading these FAQs.

First, what happens when a unit disembarks from a transport that chose to jink in the previous turn. Do they forced to snap-shot? According to the FAQ, yes :(
Second, what happens, if psyker, that is forced to do snap-shots want to cast a witchfire, that does not roll to hit? Cause after this FAQ, you can't cast shriek from a jinking transport, or if you disembark from one (or if you fail a leadership test after crew shaken/stunned, etc.)

Overall I am happy about the answers, but these 2 had me scratching my head.

These are great questions, it seems that you are correct but it might not be what they intended. you should ask them on the FB page so they can include them in the final versions in case they didn't think about it.

So what is preventing you from using any witchfire that does not roll to hit, from being used on a jinked transport?

I feel this is the same argument for or against a non skyfire model using shreik against a FMC.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Gamerely wrote:
My poor Dark Eldar... I see no way for them to survive at this point. The whole lore is about lightning quick strikes and they can't shoot better than a jinking ork. It hurts so bad. This pretty much makes turn 1 a disaster unless I go first or deep strike all my raiders. Otherwise the opponent can just shoot at each individually and force a jink.

Hey, look on the bright side: Dark Eldar like it rough, and it doesnt get rougher than after this FAQ!

Well, I suppose invalidating Quantum Shielding is a slight buff against a specific army. Of course, we can also spam Darklight weapons, or Haywire/Melta with Scourges so the Grenade change doesn't affect us as much.

The name of the game is now spamming as many reaver jetbikes and Razorwing jetfighters as possible, with the minimum number of pathetic kabalites.

jink vs overwatch and the slight buffs to the razorwing with DFTS is the only thing they have going for them now...

"Q: How many shots do Salvo weapons get when firing Snap Shots in Overwatch, if the unit moved in their previous player turn?
A: When determining if the unit moved for the purposes of firing Salvo weapons, only the previous Movement phase is considered. In the case of firing Overwatch, this will have been your opponent’s Movement phase, and therefore the unit firing Overwatch is very unlikely to have moved. As a consequence, it counts as having not moved, and can fire the higher number of shots with its weapons that have the Salvo type. "




I thought Salvo weapons could not snap fire at all?

Seriously... This FAQ is making my head hurt.

IMO there is so mush wrong with this FAQ that it destroys its credibility. We have people liking and agreeing with certain answers. We have people vehemently disagreeing with other answers and even proving that some FAQ answers are out to lunch - myself included.

We're all arguing this steaming hot mess of a FAQ in exactly the same manner as we argue the actual rules. We're no further along then where we started without a FAQ.

WTF GW? Is this an attempt to muddy the waters so badly that we all feel compelled to purchase the new 7.5 ed. rules in August?

 Sautek Supreme wrote:
"Q: How many shots do Salvo weapons get when firing Snap Shots in Overwatch, if the unit moved in their previous player turn?
A: When determining if the unit moved for the purposes of firing Salvo weapons, only the previous Movement phase is considered. In the case of firing Overwatch, this will have been your opponent’s Movement phase, and therefore the unit firing Overwatch is very unlikely to have moved. As a consequence, it counts as having not moved, and can fire the higher number of shots with its weapons that have the Salvo type. "




I thought Salvo weapons could not snap fire at all?

Are you thinking of ordinance weapons instead?

 oni wrote:
Seriously... This FAQ is making my head hurt.

IMO there is so mush wrong with this FAQ that it destroys its credibility. We have people liking and agreeing with certain answers. We have people vehemently disagreeing with other answers and even proving that some FAQ answers are out to lunch - myself included.

We're all arguing this steaming hot mess of a FAQ in exactly the same manner as we argue the actual rules. We're no further along then where we started without a FAQ.

WTF GW? Is this an attempt to muddy the waters so badly that we all feel compelled to purchase the new 7.5 ed. rules in August?

Relax, this is a rough draft. GW is doing exactly what they said they would.. answer the 2000+ replies as best they could in a relatively short time. Put them out for the community to hash out.. and then will take those comments and write the final rules.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sautek Supreme wrote:
"Q: How many shots do Salvo weapons get when firing Snap Shots in Overwatch, if the unit moved in their previous player turn?
A: When determining if the unit moved for the purposes of firing Salvo weapons, only the previous Movement phase is considered. In the case of firing Overwatch, this will have been your opponent’s Movement phase, and therefore the unit firing Overwatch is very unlikely to have moved. As a consequence, it counts as having not moved, and can fire the higher number of shots with its weapons that have the Salvo type. "




I thought Salvo weapons could not snap fire at all?

This FAQ could leave out "snap fire" entirely. the true question is during overwatch, does the unit count as having moved if it did so during my turn? The answer is then, your turn is not the preceding movement phase, therefore your unit is treated as not having moved for purpose of which shot count profile to use.

Hope that makes sense for you! Cheers!

 r_squared wrote:

gungo wrote:
I think the grenade change is good for the meta a bit. Things like dreads get ambit better. I know this screws over a handful of units. But those units tended to be the stronger units in thier codex.

Still waiting to hear the new codex rulings too.
Good stuff all around

Ork players thank you for your understanding, I'm glad our codex is now more internally balanced.

I'm an ork ( and guard) player as well and I agree with you.
Tabkbustas went down but not a lot because still have rokkits, still have squig bombs, still have melta bombs and they are still a small unit. And they still have access to tankhammers.

And half the ork codex just got better. Seriously half our book is walkers and vehicles. Deff dreads, killa kans, mork/gorkanaut, stompa, trukks, battle wagons, buggies/trakks, 4 flyers.

Sadly however most dreads die just as easily to range as they did assault. Now assault is a bit safer.

 Sautek Supreme wrote:
"Q: How many shots do Salvo weapons get when firing Snap Shots in Overwatch, if the unit moved in their previous player turn?
A: When determining if the unit moved for the purposes of firing Salvo weapons, only the previous Movement phase is considered. In the case of firing Overwatch, this will have been your opponent’s Movement phase, and therefore the unit firing Overwatch is very unlikely to have moved. As a consequence, it counts as having not moved, and can fire the higher number of shots with its weapons that have the Salvo type. "




I thought Salvo weapons could not snap fire at all?

are you thinking of grav centurions ?

they don't overwatch due to S & p.

Couple things I really like with this FAQ: (or find interesting)

-being able to jink after a blast scatters onto you if you weren't the intended target is awesome (especially for rerolling jink ravenwing)

-MCs get 'toe in cover' but FMCs dont - this is interesting, could make summoning a daemon prince with no wings more worth it if you need to put him in cover. Also LOVE that GMCs don't get toe in cover anymore.

-Bloodthirsters (whether conjured or summoned from blood tithe) get to choose if they are swooping or gliding - awesome. This just made KDK bloodthirster spam armies amazing.

-clearing up how templates work (although my poor orks filling up ruins on multiple levels are now terrified of my buddies salamander army - he puts dual heavy flamers on everything)

-a single jump pack IC can give a whole unit reroll on the charge? - this is interesting...surprised noone is talking about this (gonna try this in my Daemonkin army) Jumpack Lord with Axe of Korlath

-mixed unit types can run and turboboost in the same unit - yay for putting biker lords in with chaos hounds (or with jump pack infantry)

-no part of a vehicle can move more than its movement allowance - this is exactly how age of sigmar works (if noone noticed)

-putting the blood angel taxi service out of business (seriously someone show me one written piece of fluff ever that had someone else using blood angel drop pods)

-skyfire nexus plus blast/template weapons = can target flyers now? interesting

-lvl1 psykers can only cast 1 power? going to be big choices made if you want to cast force now...