Warhammer 40,000 FAQ Draft p58 Chaos daemons

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**gungo**

The brb faq does say you can't enter and leave reserves the same turn that's the point!!!
This faq doesn't say you can.
It only says you can enter reserves every turn.
However that is not giving you an ability to enter the reserves the same turn that you just left.
Just the ability to enter reserves every turn if you already are on the board (and haven't already left reserves that turn per the brb faq)

**Gamgee**

Yep Necrons seem almost guaranteed to be next.

Edit
The FAQ as written says you may enter reserves on EVERY turn. Read it again and again and again that is the operative word of that sentence. It could be them not choosing their words correctly but it does contradict the BRB faq rule. Maybe it is an exception and they can enter reserves the same turn they arrive maybe they can't but the two rules are just contradictory enough to need to be questioned. Get on Facebook and ask.

As written it most certainly implies they can. As written the BRB faq says they can't. So which one is right? Ask GW.

**gungo**

Frozocrone wrote:
My friends and I were laughing at the Stormsurge ruling, since our friend who joined the bandwagon for Tau bought one not too long ago.

Overall it seems like Tau got some buffs and also some nerfs.

Calling the next one to be Necrons (as they are pretty popular). Orks probably after that, or the two switched around.

People are slightly over reacting to this
First the biggest example I hear is rhino tank shocking the Stormsurge.
I someone is dumb enough to tankshock a rhino into a Stormsurge
Just death or glory it into oblivion
A death or glory automatically hits with no cover save
A Stormsurge hits it at str10 ap1 or str d.
A roll of 1 is an auto glance but smash allows reroll so just take it and pen the rhino.
A pen result with +2 modifier is a stun or better on a roll of a 2+ and the tank shock is stopped
Or use the str d table instead for d3 hull or a 6 result in hopes you will outright kill the tank however you might get unlucky with a 1 result.
Either way the rhino is toast
Honestly I wouldn't take my chances using any tank model that's av12 or less.
And any tau player using anchors with an av13+ vehicle within 12inches deserves to lose thier Stormsurge to a lucky tankshock.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gamgee wrote:
Yep Necrons seem almost guaranteed to be next.

Edit
The FAQ as written says you may enter reserves on EVERY turn. Read it again and again and again that is the operative word of that sentence. It could be them not choosing their words correctly but it does contradict the BRB faq rule. Maybe it is an exception and they can enter reserves the same turn they arrive maybe they can't but the two rules are just contradictory enough to need to be questioned. Get on Facebook and ask.

As written it most certainly implies they can. As written the BRB faq says they can't. So which one is right? Ask GW.

The piranha wing always had the ability to enter reserves every turn that doesn't matter.
It had the ability to enter EVERY turn before this faq existed what it still doesn't have is the ability to enter reserves the turn it leaves reserves. Saying EVERY all in caps and repeating yourself doesn't automatically grant it permission to do so.
Nor does this faq allow it especially when we have a clear faq that still says you specifically can't do it.

**Frozocrone**

+1 modifier from Smash. So you need either a 6, 5 or 3 to save the Stormsurge.

Factoring in the unlikely chance of a double 1, you're looking at 34% chance of stopping the Rhino, pretty good odds for a ~35 point model.

Don't think I've seen anyone use the Blast Cannon, everyone wants the driver cannon due to Large Blast S10 AP2 and 72" range. If it is the Blast Cannon variant, I'd probably avoid it like the plague and take it out the game.

**Gamgee**

It doesn't say it can't. I was right on about the Ghostkeel ruling when I argued it to death and back. I got a feeling I'm going to be right again.

We've each said out piece at this point. Can only wait for GW to further FAQ it.

**gungo**

Yes the base blast cannon varient is the str d ap1 weapon vs tank shock.
I'm not sure how you are avoiding a garagautuan with a 30in range weapon but whatever.
If you are using pulse driver or the normal smash atk that's just str 10 ap2 smash and 48.6% not 34%

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gamgee wrote:
It doesn't say it can't. I was right on about the Ghostkeel ruling when I argued it to death and back. I got a feeling I'm going to be right again.

We've each said out piece at this point. Can only wait for GW to further FAQ it.

The ghosting faq lasted all of 2 months in the ITC the majority agreed with you. And you argued a bunch of stuff that hasn't been correct I'd hardly call that a trend.

**Davor**

Gamgee please acknowledge what other people are saying please. You are still ignoring what they are saying.

They have countered your point, but all you are doing is rehashing your point without acknowledging what they said, and not countering what they have said. This is a one sided debate now that is going no where because you will not acknowledge what other people are saying.

**gungo**

Davor wrote:
Gamgee please acknowledge what other people are saying please. You are still ignoring what they are saying.

They have countered your point, but all you are doing is rehashing your point without acknowledging what they said, and not countering what they have said. This is a one sided debate now that is going no where because you will not acknowledge what other people are saying.

It doesn't matter if he accepts it or not there is so much poorly worded faqs in this that I was literally arguing with a tau player who now believes he can not only enter and leave reserves with his piranha wing each turn but that the immobilised faq now allows piranhas to enter and leave reserves even if abandoned and immobilised.
And now he thinks he can take 4 piranha enter from reserves move over difficult terrain immobilise 1 piranha, abandon it to form a second unit, then have both units enter reserves at the end of the movement phase and come back next turn with 2 units of 4 piranhas because now they are seperate units. Heck turn 3 he thinks he can spawn 16 piranhas and drones, etc.

Niether of those faqs allow this

**AndrewC**

Since the newly created unit formed from the immobilised piranha doesn't form part of the formation, why on earth would he think that it gains those rules?

Cheers

Andrew

**JimOnMars**

Not sure what the argument is about. They will make it clear in the final version. If each of us posts to the fb page with their interpretation, we just might sway them one way or the other.

**Crimson Devil**

Davor wrote:
Gamgee please acknowledge what other people are saying please. You are still ignoring what they are saying.

They have countered your point, but all you are doing is rehashing your point without acknowledging what they said, and not countering what they have said. This is a one sided debate now that is going no where because you will not acknowledge what other people are saying.

He's far too busy fighting a twitter war with Notorious RBG to respond right now. I'm sure he'll get back to you after his spray tan appointment tomorrow.

**tneva82**

Gamgee wrote:
It's still a turn the first turn or any turn it enters. I enter from reserves drop drones and then leave that turn. Nothing explicitly prevents it, but it's been a long time since I've played a game so I could be rusty. In the FAQ page 2 it specifically says may enter reserves on every turn. EVERY. As in all inclusive. Opposite of nothing. You won't find rules for markerlights in the BRB and yet we still use those rules as in our codex.

Question btw isn't does something explictly prevent it but explictly allows it. If it's not explictly allowed it's not possible. Even if there's nothing explictly preventing from doing it.

**Liberal_Perturabo**

AndrewC wrote:
Since the newly created unit formed from the immobilised piranha doesn't form part of the formation, why on earth would he think that it gains those rules?

Cheers

Andrew

The thing is, afaik, there is no concept of new, old or original units in 40k, not for this specific case anyway. BRB just says that you should count them as separate units after it was abandoned. Who is to say that the immobilised vehicle is the new unit and not the other piranhas? There is just no information about it, so technically to assume that that one immobilised piranhia can regenerate back to it's "original" unit size is just as good position as any. To do so would make you tfg, but hey, when was that a stopping factor in 40k?
Also, even if we don't count an immobilised piranha as part of the formation you can still regenerate it in another unit thus potentially fielding more of the damn things than you started with, which is still stupid beyond reason imo.

**Vaktathi**

Gamgee wrote:
It doesn't say it can't

40k's rules are permissive, if it doesn't say it can, then it can't.

**creeping-deth87**

Gamgee wrote:
It doesn't say it can't.

Interesting. The rulebook and FAQ also don't say that I can't reach over the table and break all of your models. Do you really wanna play that game? Permissive ruleset man. They tell you what you can do, not what you can't.

**SicSemperTyrannis**

Tbh with all that firepower that tau have - a tank that manages to get close to a anchored stormsurge deserves to kill it.

It amazes me how big waves this one is making only because suddenly you need to make strategic decisions wheter it´s worth the risk or not to anchor.

I guess turning off EZ-Mode is not Tau players thing

**Frozocrone**

Interestingly, the Tau formation can go into reserves every turn (and comes back at full starting value if it lost any models), which isn't in line with the battle rulebook FAQ.

Looks like Firestream is back to stay.

**DarkStarSabre**

Frozocrone wrote:
Interestingly, the Tau formation can go into reserves every turn (and comes back at full starting value if it lost any models), which isn't in line with the battle rulebook FAQ.

Looks like Firestream is back to stay.

Don't forget that they went out to specifically state that Supporting Fire is Overwatch for all intents and purposes....

And then stated it can be used against things immune to Overwatch.

They clarify a rule...

And then they go and complicate it right after.

I'm not going to be sad that it hits Eldar (because holy balls Banshee masks) but it does kind of feel like another kick in the teeth for CSM.

**Crazyterran**

Eldar used banshees?

**AndrewC**

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
AndrewC wrote:
Since the newly created unit formed from the immobilised piranha doesn't form part of the formation, why on earth would he think that it gains those rules?

Cheers

Andrew

The thing is, afaik, there is no concept of new, old or original units in 40k, not for this specific case anyway. BRB just says that you should count them as separate units after it was abandoned. Who is to say that the immobilised vehicle is the new unit and not the other piranhas? There is just no information about it, so technically to assume that that one immobilised piranhia can regenerate back to it's "original" unit size is just as good position as any. To do so would make you tfg, but hey, when was that a stopping factor in 40k?
Also, even if we don't count an immobilised piranha as part of the formation you can still regenerate it in another unit thus potentially fielding more of the damn things than you started with, which is still stupid beyond reason imo.

There is however the limitations created about the allocation of special rules which has been clarified to show that the rules only apply to the units were originally part of the formation.

The rules on P79 does actually provide guidance as to who is the original unit. Since the unit has to move away from the immobilised vehicle and that fundamental unit never changes it can be easily seen that that it is the original unit. The immobilised unit never exists as a unit until the rest has left.

As I alluded to above, the new unit was not purchased or organised into the Firestream formation so it can't access the formation rules.

Cheers

Andrew

**Vector Strike**

It's not a new unit, it's the old one remade. They're always part of the original unit.

**EnTyme**

Frozocrone wrote:
My friends and I were laughing at the Stormsurge ruling, since our friend who joined the bandwagon for Tau bought one not too long ago.

Overall it seems like Tau got some buffs and also some nerfs.

Calling the next one to be Necrons (as they are pretty popular). Orks probably after that, or the two switched around.

I'm assuming Necrons, Orks, Tyranids, then Chaos (CSM and Daemons combined). That would cover everyone, right?

**gungo**

Vector Strike wrote:
It's not a new unit, it's the old one remade. They're always part of the original unit.

Exactly detachment rules apply to all models purchased as part of that detachment.
The abandoned pirahna is still part of the detschment except being abandoned is the only way it can form a seperate unit.
So now you have two units that are part of the formation and both are able to enter reserves and come back as thier original size.

There is obviously mAssive intent issues with the way these rules are written and GW did a horrible job at answering and choosing which questions to answer.
No one really cares or questioned about immobilised models that are within 6in of the board edge and still part of the original unit.
The formation rules are specific that those models can enter reserves.

The question was immobilised and abandoned units that form a seperate unit? What happens in that situation?

Just like the reserve question is just horribly chosen and answered.
Can my unit enter reserves? Yes
Great who cares? I know my unit can enter reserves every turn. It literally says that in the formation rules.
The question is can it choose to enter and leave reserves in the same turn (aka movement phase).

These faqs are obviously a quickly done draft format for a reason

**Crazyterran**

What if a immobilized and abandoned piranha forms its own new unit of one upon being abandoned by its former unit?

**Kap'n Krump**

Someone mentioned a potential ork FAQ, and it made me wonder - what is there even to FAQ? I don't think there's a lot of questions about the codex.

I'd prefer an errata for mob rule to apply to fear tests, but that's probably not going to happen.

Maybe a clarification on double 5s on the SAG - does the big mek immediately charge, which causes the target unit unable to be shot at for the remainder of the shooting phase?

Past that, I can't think of much that is debatable or confusing.

**Fragile**

Davor wrote:
Gamgee please acknowledge what other people are saying please. You are still ignoring what they are saying.

They have countered your point, but all you are doing is rehashing your point without acknowledging what they said, and not countering what they have said. This is a one sided debate now that is going no where because you will not acknowledge what other people are saying.

The counter point is that the FAQ addresses when the unit can leave the table, which is every turn. Since the unit is put into Ongoing Reserves, it must reenter the subsequent turn. Therefore permission to leave every turn, is also permission to enter and leave every turn.

But this is a YMDC issue and not a News and Rumors one.

**doktor_g**

@Kap'n: Lets hope for an unprecedented errata regarding Dorkanauts point cost, firepoints, transport capacity, and or super heavy. Oh man I got a wish list to beat the band.

@Tau Piranha Argument: So the main debate here is can the Piranha FSW come in from ongoing reserve, and leave the same turn?

@Tau Stormsurge Tactics: Some scouting/outflanking Battle Wagons tank shocking from the board edge might make the Tau player think twice about the "Corner Castle" strategy.

@Tau hate: The recent article on frontlinegaming seems that the ire is somewhat unfounded... at least in ITC meta. Link below:
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/07/11/variance-hammer-editorial-there-are-two-armies-ruining-the-game-eldar-and-tau/

**Kap'n Krump**

doktor_g wrote:
@Kap'n: Lets hope for an unprecedented errata regarding Dorkanauts point cost, firepoints, transport capacity, and or super heavy. Oh man I got a wish list to beat the band.

Hell, I think every ork player has a wish list, but I'm not holding out any real hope of hotfixes, just curious about actual ork FAQs.

**gungo**

Mob rule doesn't have any results for a 7+ that you would get from using waaagh ghazkull.
Hope is that is just fearless until end of turn; actual faq probably just says use the result of the 6 on the die.

**Davor**

tneva82 wrote:
Gamgee wrote:
It's still a turn the first turn or any turn it enters. I enter from reserves drop drones and then leave that turn. Nothing explicitly prevents it, but it's been a long time since I've played a game so I could be rusty. In the FAQ page 2 it specifically says may enter reserves on every turn. EVERY. As in all inclusive. Opposite of nothing. You won't find rules for markerlights in the BRB and yet we still use those rules as in our codex.

Question btw isn't does something explictly prevent it but explictly allows it. If it's not explictly allowed it's not possible. Even if there's nothing explictly preventing from doing it.

Vaktathi wrote:
Gamgee wrote:
It doesn't say it can't
40k's rules are permissive, if it doesn't say it can, then it can't.

Refute these points please Gamgee.

Fragile wrote:
Davor wrote:
Gamgee please acknowledge what other people are saying please. You are still ignoring what they are saying.

They have countered your point, but all you are doing is rehashing your point without acknowledging what they said, and not countering what they have said. This is a one sided debate now that is going no where because you will not acknowledge what other people are saying.

The counter point is that the FAQ addresses when the unit can leave the table, which is every turn. Since the unit is put into Ongoing Reserves, it must reenter the subsequent turn. Therefore permission to leave every turn, is also permission to enter and leave every turn.

But this is a YMDC issue and not a News and Rumors one.

The way I see it is yes the FAQ says he can leave the table any turn. Nobody is arguing that point. What it DOESN't say is it can leave the turn it arrives. You still have to follow the rule "when a unit arrives it can't go back into reserve.. Where is the rule that says this part is over ridden? It doesn't. It just clearly says it can leave but you still have to follow the rules that lets it leave. So what are the rules that let it leave? I don't have the codex so I can't quote the rule.

But it doesn't matter, it's a first draft, not official only the errata is official correct? So we can debate this in YMDC when it is an official ruling.