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I just saw the news section and it had a snippet about the new ork flyer. It apparently has a Smasha Gun, for those who don't know a Smasha gun is one of the most useless weapons in the game, S4+D6. Apparently GW thinks that Ork weapons are so amazing, especially with our never fail BS2 that we need to randomly generate the strength of a number of our weapons, but only after we have designated a target. So if you really want to kill that Land Raider you better pray you get a 4-6 on that D6 roll, because otherwise your wasting your shot .

It also apparently comes with a TL KMK (arguably the best weapon in our arsenal S8Ap2 small blast Gets hot) However, since it is blast, you can only fire it if you don't jink.
And it comes with the option for a KFF which is nice, but a 5++ isn't that great when every flyer as is can jink and get that 4+ jink save.

Does anyone have more definitive details on this thing, and more importantly, ignoring the ascetics of this mode (it looks awesome) would you buy one to use in games?

I am more in the survivability side. I will be buying 2 of the new flyers if AV11 or AV 12, but buying none if it is AV10. I know orks are supposed to be fragile and so are their vehicles but too many dakkajets falling to bolter fire to invest more in fail.

The str4 + d6 is certainly valid, orks are fun and random but GW seems to hate the idea of a competitive ork build. case in point... nominate a target then find out if you can hurt that Russ or LR

Good god, WHY GAMES WORKSHOP??

Definitely. It looks awesome and I was planning to build an Orky airforce anyway. I don't think I will ever be using it in a game, but it just looks too good to ignore.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
I am more in the survivability side. I will be buying 2 of the new flyers if AV11 or AV 12, but buying none if it is AV10. I know orks are supposed to be fragile and so are their vehicles but too many dakkajets falling to bolter fire to invest more in fail.

The str4 + d6 is certainly valid, orks are fun and random but GW seems to hate the idea of a competitive ork build. case in point... nominate a target then find out if you can hurt that Russ or LR

Those are certainly valid points, I think someone mentioned that its AV12/10/10 which is nice, but still garbage because you can never field a flyer without showing the enemy your side armor at some point. I just really hope they are wrong and it turns out to be 12/11/10 then it might survive more then a single turn.

But I think your on to something with that. If it has some kind of survivability beyond jink it might be worth taking if for no other reason then a giant flying distraction that has the ability to delete high value (good armor save) units with that KMK blast, of course we already have that ability with Mek Gunz which are a lot tougher to get rid of, just not nearly as mobile.

According to that pic its 10/10/10 though :(

 Orock wrote:
Good god, WHY GAMES WORKSHOP??

Well that just ruined it for me. ANOTHER FETHING AV 10/10/10 FLYER! wtf GW you guys are absolutely the worst game designers in the history of table top games.

140pts, plus the KFF +the back turret, your looking at a 185pt fething model that has AV10. I hate you GW so fething much.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Orock wrote:
Good god, WHY GAMES WORKSHOP??

Well that just ruined it for me. ANOTHER FETHING AV 10/10/10 FLYER! wtf GW you guys are absolutely the worst game designers in the history of table top games.

140pts, plus the KFF +the back turret, your looking at a 185pt fething model that has AV10. I hate you GW so fething much.

Well to be fair, all flyers should be fragile. If you ask me there is far too much AV12 flying around these days. Whilst it does make sense on the larger and tougher flyers such as Marauders and Thunderhawks, these smaller ones like the Chibihawk or Stormguppy should have any facing with more than an '11' in armour value and '10' should be the average.

I'm planning to buy one or two of them. I have to see the new flyer formations to be sure of how many I want. We play large games. I just finished collecting a second Air Armada about a month ago. Looks like there are a few new formations, one being made up of a possible 12 aircraft. none of them being the new aircraft. The second formation, I think I read, can be made of 4 blastJets.

 master of ordinance wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 Orock wrote:
Good god, WHY GAMES WORKSHOP??

Well that just ruined it for me. ANOTHER FETHING AV 10/10/10 FLYER! wtf GW you guys are absolutely the worst game designers in the history of table top games.

140pts, plus the KFF +the back turret, your looking at a 185pt fething model that has AV10. I hate you GW so fething much.

Well to be fair, all flyers should be fragile. If you ask me there is far too much AV12 flying around these days. Whilst it does make sense on the larger and tougher flyers such as Marauders and Thunderhawks, these smaller ones like the Chibihawk or Stormguppy should have any facing with more than an '11' in armour value and '10' should be the average.

And how many points are those models with AV12? I guarantee the points investment compared to the toughness and damage output isn't nearly as bad as what the ork player has to deal with in regards to our 4 flyer models, ALL OF WHICH SUCK.

Might buy one for funzies. Interesting enough, you can replace the KMK for a TL Tellyporta Blasta and give them a Gitbusta Turret, which is a TL Supa Shoota with Interceptor. Huh.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Might buy one for funzies. Interesting enough, you can replace the KMK for a TL Tellyporta Blasta and give them a Gitbusta Turret, which is a TL Supa Shoota with Interceptor. Huh.

Tellyporta blasta is Range 12. Good luck getting that thing in range for more then 1 turn before having to fly off the table and a Supa shoota is what? 3 S6 shots at BS3, in other words 2 S6 shots.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooope

People do realize you can skip the KFF and just take a stikk bomb flinga.
Reportedly the rules are 3++ for all missiles which are the majority of skyfire weapons.
So definitely a bit more defensive. I also heard a rumour of a one time 5++.
So it's not totally defenseless

gungo wrote:
People do realize you can skip the KFF and just take a stikk bomb flinga.
Reportedly the rules are 3++ for all missiles which are the majority of skyfire weapons.
So definitely a bit more defensive. I also heard a rumour of a one time 5++.
So it's not totally defenseless

The rules are posted above, someone got an actual picture of the darn thing. Let me put it another way, 10 SM in double tap range of ANY ork flyer will fire 20 shots at it, 3 or more will hit and you have a 1/2 chance of inflicting a glance on it. The KFF reduces that chance by 1/3rd which is nice but that is against Bolters, not against dedicated anti-flyer weapons. conversely against flak missiles that is 4 missiles, 3 hits, 2/3rd chance to pen 1/6 chance to Glance. so 5/6th chance to do dmg per shot. That means that unless you get 1 of those 5++ saves you can kiss your flyer goodbye.

gungo wrote:
People do realize you can skip the KFF and just take a stikk bomb flinga.
Reportedly the rules are 3++ for all missiles which are the majority of skyfire weapons.
So definitely a bit more defensive. I also heard a rumour of a one time 5++.
So it's not totally defenseless

stikkbomb chucka is one 5+ save attempt. Not once per turn till you save, one single dice attempt to save. against missles only.

As much as I love orks, no.

I've sold my soul to the Machine God now. That mechanical abomination displeases Him.

 Orock wrote:

gungo wrote:
People do realize you can skip the KFF and just take a stikk bomb flinga.
Reportedly the rules are 3++ for all missiles which are the majority of skyfire weapons.
So definitely a bit more defensive. I also heard a rumour of a one time 5++.
So it's not totally defenseless

stikkbomb chucka is one 5+ save attempt. Not once per turn till you save, one single dice attempt to save. against missles only.

Put that into perspective say against Eldar Wave Serpeants. Who for a similar price are just as durable, come with a 4+ Jink as well, can transport units, has more/better guns, better Ballistic Skill, and for 15pts, not 50, not 25 but 15pts it can have a 5++.

So for 140pts you get a S8 AP2 Lance 36in range, a S6 AP5 3 shot weapon with Bladestorm range 24in, a 5++, a 4+ Jink, AV 12/12/10 and it is a transport.
Compared to that Ork flyer above....wow.

That'd be like comparing the Wraithknight to the Morkanaut. And the Wazbom Whateverfighter IS a flying Morkanaut

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
That'd be like comparing the Wraithknight to the Morkanaut. And the Wazbom Whateverfighter IS a flying Morkanaut

lmao that is a about it, perfectly.

Giant walking robot vs Giant walking robot that is alive and counts as a GMC because souls, and bonemetal and reasons. Costs about the same. Who would win 1 WK vs 3 Morkanauts. Im going to have to say WK wins hands down.

Who would win, 3 of those flyers or a single Wave serpent, that one would probably be a lot closer, but im going to say that if you upgraded that serpent with the missile launcher? yeah he is going to win.

so the big mek went 10/10/10 for his own plane >_< I was thinking 12/11/10 or 11/11/10 but what can ya do. as for math hammer vs tabletop results I have had dakkajets ( and crimson hunters for that matter) taken down by a single round of bolter fire, and I have had them last 2-3 turns with bolters and missiles whiffing. the point is that a bolter should not be able to hit a flyer at all let alone damage it. I would prefer to see flyers across the board start at 11/11/10 and very rarely differ from that. heavied ones like a storm raven sure 12/12/12 the space wolf one sure. Most str 5 weapons are longer range like the tau guns so it sort of makes sense that they could be in range with their superior range. The str 6 and 7 are usually light tank and superior range so it makes sense that they can be hitting flyers.

Take a look at the stats and points cost of the Wazbomb Crappajet.

Now look at the stats and points cost of a Blitza bommer.

Take note that the Wazbomb then gets slapped with the -1BS nerfbat literally at birth (it's an attack flyer, blitza is a bomber)

and keep in mind that the two of them are IN THE SAME KIT.

You can never make a Wazbomb without making the conscious decision NOT to instead make a blitza bommer.

That's HILARIOUS.

And even then, I'd never get the new kit.

Maaaaybe if the old Ork Jet box was still around and I could build a Blitzabomma for 30-something Euros, I might consider adding another flier to my army to make the best of the new DFTS rules. At 52€... sorry, no.

For 15€ more, I'd rather get another of those sweet AdMech start collecting boxes. That way I'd have a third Onager and a good bunch of Skitarii so I can finally realize my dream of fielding a Vanguard horde. And for a mere 15€ , I could get another X-Wing ship. Trust me, even a puny Scyk would end up seeing more play than that costly, useless and not-that-good looking Ork plane.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
And even then, I'd never get the new kit.

Maaaaybe if the old Ork Jet box was still around and I could build a Blitzabomma for 30-something Euros, I might consider adding another flier to my army to make the best of the new DFTS rules. At 52€... sorry, no.

For 15€ more, I'd rather get another of those sweet AdMech start collecting boxes. That way I'd have a third Onager and a good bunch of Skitarii so I can finally realize my dream of fielding a Vanguard horde. And for a mere 15€ , I could get another X-Wing ship. Trust me, even a puny Scyk would end up seeing more play than that costly, useless and not-that-good looking Ork plane.

Dear Christ I just noticed that. Those things went from like $30 to $65! Well it is a good thing they made the rules for that model suck so bad that nobody will ever buy one, otherwise they are getting ripped off.

the_scotsman wrote:
Take a look at the stats and points cost of the Wazbomb Crappajet.

Now look at the stats and points cost of a Blitza bommer.

Take note that the Wazbomb then gets slapped with the -1BS nerfbat literally at birth (it's an attack flyer, blitza is a bomber)

and keep in mind that the two of them are IN THE SAME KIT.

You can never make a Wazbomb without making the conscious decision NOT to instead make a blitza bommer.

That's HILARIOUS.

Wazbom does not get the -1 BS, it's an attack flyer not a fighter

Your not taking into account the wing leader benefits, i.e +1 S to all weapons or +1 shots to all weapons (but not bombs)

Your not taking into account the formation that's grants all the flyers with the Wazbom a 3++

Your not taking into account patterns that grant ingore cover or tank tank hunter to a attack flyer.

Need to look at the whole picture not just they flyer itself.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Take a look at the stats and points cost of the Wazbomb Crappajet.

Now look at the stats and points cost of a Blitza bommer.

Take note that the Wazbomb then gets slapped with the -1BS nerfbat literally at birth (it's an attack flyer, blitza is a bomber)

and keep in mind that the two of them are IN THE SAME KIT.

You can never make a Wazbomb without making the conscious decision NOT to instead make a blitza bommer.

That's HILARIOUS.

Wazbom does not get the -1 BS, it's an attack flyer not a fighter

Your not taking into account the wing leader benefits, i.e +1 S to all weapons or +1 shots to all weapons (but not bombs)

Your not taking into account the formation that's grants all the flyers with the Wazbom a 3++

Your not taking into account patterns that grant ingore cover or tank tank hunter to a attack flyer.

Need to look at the whole picture not just they flyer itself.

It's still way overcosted and poorly armed. Your suggestion is to dump even more points into it?

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Take a look at the stats and points cost of the Wazbomb Crappajet.

Now look at the stats and points cost of a Blitza bommer.

Take note that the Wazbomb then gets slapped with the -1BS nerfbat literally at birth (it's an attack flyer, blitza is a bomber)

and keep in mind that the two of them are IN THE SAME KIT.

You can never make a Wazbomb without making the conscious decision NOT to instead make a blitza bommer.

That's HILARIOUS.

Wazbom does not get the -1 BS, it's an attack flyer not a fighter

Your not taking into account the wing leader benefits, i.e +1 S to all weapons or +1 shots to all weapons (but not bombs)

Your not taking into account the formation that's grants all the flyers with the Wazbom a 3++

Your not taking into account patterns that grant ingore cover or tank tank hunter to a attack flyer.

Need to look at the whole picture not just they flyer itself.

....why? What's wrong with the assumption that if I want to include something in my army, I shouldn't have to buy, assemble and paint at least THREE to have it start being OK?

there is no ork flyer that even comes close to the effectiveness of an equivalent number of mek gunz, for the points. This thing costs 140 points base. Ask yourself: Is one BS2 smasha gun and one TL KMK ever going to be as useful as four KMKs, all with extra crew? It's got the same guns.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Take a look at the stats and points cost of the Wazbomb Crappajet.

Now look at the stats and points cost of a Blitza bommer.

Take note that the Wazbomb then gets slapped with the -1BS nerfbat literally at birth (it's an attack flyer, blitza is a bomber)

and keep in mind that the two of them are IN THE SAME KIT.

You can never make a Wazbomb without making the conscious decision NOT to instead make a blitza bommer.

That's HILARIOUS.

Wazbom does not get the -1 BS, it's an attack flyer not a fighter

Your not taking into account the wing leader benefits, i.e +1 S to all weapons or +1 shots to all weapons (but not bombs)

Your not taking into account the formation that's grants all the flyers with the Wazbom a 3++

Your not taking into account patterns that grant ingore cover or tank tank hunter to a attack flyer.

Need to look at the whole picture not just they flyer itself.

....why? What's wrong with the assumption that if I want to include something in my army, I shouldn't have to buy, assemble and paint at least THREE to have it start being OK?

there is no ork flyer that even comes close to the effectiveness of an equivalent number of mek gunz, for the points. This thing costs 140 points base. Ask yourself: Is one BS2 smasha gun and one TL KMK ever going to be as useful as four KMKs, all with extra crew? It's got the same guns.

You don't need 3 , wings are 1 -3 flyers , so you could have 1.

Could be 2 smasha gun shots and 2 twin kmk shots. It doesn't have to worry about leader ship based attacks, it flys, can block movement , it's a fast choice not a heavy. More maneuverable to get side shots,
can have a teleport blasta that can insta death or auto pens on a 6.

I can see it being more usefull than mek guns and if you want bikes as troops with no meks if you take Zhadsnark. So can be used in place of mek guns for bike armies.

Again look at how it interacts with the army not a unit compared to another unit.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm picking up 1 to go with my 3 blitz bombers for sure. A 3++ and interceptor sounds awesome.

I'm a sucker, so I pre-ordered it.

I think it's an ok unit. Interested to see what the mega tellyport blasta is, I assume increased range.

Though, anyone who actually believed the AV12 rumor is an even bigger sucker than me.

Wings are 2-4, with only one flyer getting the wing leader bonus, not 1-3. You're thinking of the flyer detachment, which is 1-3 *wings* of flyers.

Additionally, the only formation you can get with 2 flyers gives you +1BS. You can't get the double-shot bonus. You can't get any bonus with a single Wazbomber.

The tellyport blasta? Effectively, you get pen on a 6 only vs AV14 (vs any other AV, you already pen on a 6..), your range gets halved, you get rid of Gets Hot and you get instant death against T5+ stuff on a 6. It's still a single S8 AP2 blast.