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So, Necrons are a very powerful defensive army, but I'm curious as to what their offensive potential really looks like against the competitive power units right now? I'm just now getting into the army and trying to figure my options. Specifically, how are my fellow Necron players dealing with (and by dealing with I mean killing or otherwise neutralizing):

- Gargantuan creatures (Stormsurge and Wraithknight specifically)
- Superheavy walkers
- Invisible deathstars
- Fast-moving bike and jetbike armies
- Flying monstrous creatures
- Psychic shenanigans (rerollable 2++, Biomancy buffs, summoned Daemons)
- Free transport spam

Some of those seem more obvious than others, but as I've not played a game with my Crons yet its all theoryhammer for me right now so I'd love to know what people in the field are experiencing!

Gargantuan creatures - Destroyers work fairly well against wraith knights depending on kit, Stormsurges are more problematic having an armor save of 2+, that means prats (meh), heavy destroyers (also meh, but you'll likely have a cult anyway), melee (which involves a lot of hoping for low stomp results), or serious volumes of fire since gauss can wound anything.

Super heavy walkers - Laugh all the way to the bank as you glance them to death.

Invisible deathstars - Tarpit and play to objectives, seriously we ain't got gak. Fortunately no one can tarpit like us, a lych star with a harvest can jam them up for less than a marine deathstar costs. With resurection orb and dispersion shields, it takes about twelve wounds to make a singe wound stick, and that's a toughness 5 unit. Unless they are packing storm sheilds, termie armor, or the super lame ability to jink in melee (DA/WS we are looking at you), we are actually tougher on res orb rounds. If they have hit and run they'll just leave and we'll never catch them.

Fast Moving Bike and Jet Bike - We are not slouches when it comes to speed, we have jet bikes ourselves, a harvest is fast, and destroyers aren't too bad. As for scatt bike spam, just tough it out and fight for objectives. Even our worst units are more resistant to scat lasers than marines.

Flying monstrous creatures - We got nothing. The latest supplement took away skyfire from our flyers (thanks GW), so outside of forge world we have no good ways of shooting them down. For better or for worse though, armies with FMC tend to be ones we beat fairly easily or not at all, so the overall effect on our competitiveness is fairly small.

Psychich shenanigans - Truly our Achilles heel, cause we have less than nothing. Nothing would be a psychic phase but no relevant powers, and we don't even have a psychic phase. No d weapons, no null fields, no way to even make it harder for them to get their stuff off. Just take it straight to the teeth every time. However like most problems on the table, it can be solved by overwhelming firepower, when your only tool is a hammer everything looks like a nail.

Free transport spam - Tac marines suck against crons, and free transport spam uses a lot of them. If he is running razor backs, a destroyer squad can wipe out a tac squad a turn, and it's not like we have a hard time dealing with vehicles.

 Grimgold wrote:
Super heavy walkers - Laugh all the way to the bank as you glance them to death.

Just because Gauss can glance things doesn't mean it does so well (you gotta hit, then roll a 6, then they gotta fail their save). Unless you're tipping the stats in your favor by going Warrior spam you're likely going to have a hard time dealing with Knights.

A warrior squad is as good against vehicles as a devastator squad. Considering you need two of them for a decurion, you have no excuse not to have plenty of guass shots. Most of our melee units can also kill an IK, Literally every part of the usual Reclamation/Harvest/Cult setup can kill IKs, some of them may not be optimal, but there are no wasted points, no units sitting on their hands, like there would be with just about any other army. Sure grav spam will work faster and D weapons will make short work of IKs, but IKs should be one of our easier match ups.

This is all great info, thanks for the replies so far.

So, based on my reading, here are some of the formations and sub-builds that Necron players are generally using in competitive lists.

Formation components:

- Reclamation Legion
-- Zandrekh with max warrior squad
-- Max Lychguard for Lychstar Build

- Royal Court
-- Orikan for Lychstar Build
-- Overlord with Warscythe and Nightmare Shroud for Lychstar tanking
-- Lord with Solar Staff for Lychstar (optional Resurrection Orb)
-- Lord with veil for Lychstar (optional Resurrection Orb)

- Canoptek Harvest
-- 6 wraiths with whipcoils (are people using transdimensional beamer builds ever?)

- Destroyer Cult

- Judicator Battalion
-- Mix and match Praetorians or go one or the other

I might be missing some components but generally these seem like what I see the most. So, from a killing power perspective, is it a good idea to mix and match these components with each other? If so, which play best together? If not, what are your current favorite builds and supporting elements?

Again, just because something "can kill" does not mean it "can efficiently kill".
I don't know how many IKs you've had to face, but the usual 10x2 Warriors that most people bring is typically not a very effective solution. Gauss should not be relied on to do all of your army's heavy lifting.
Unfortunately, apart from Wraiths with an attached D.Lord, our anti superheavy CC capabilities aren't so hot (and even then, a couple good stomps will completely neuter them). Warscythe L.Guard would almost be good if it weren't for their mobility issues and the fact that they tend to get chewed up a lot before they can get into combat, let alone swing.

 skoffs wrote:
Again, just because something "can kill" does not mean it "can efficiently kill".
I don't know how many IKs you've had to face, but the usual 10x2 Warriors that most people bring is typically not a very effective solution. Gauss should not be relied on to do all of your army's heavy lifting.
Unfortunately, apart from Wraiths with an attached D.Lord, our anti superheavy CC capabilities aren't so hot (and even then, a couple good stomps will completely neuter them). Warscythe L.Guard would almost be good if it weren't for their mobility issues and the fact that they tend to get chewed up a lot before they can get into combat, let alone swing.

So, I'm definitely getting the point on not relying on warriors for super heavy kills. The question, though, is what are you using to face those (and other items listed)? I'm guessing that Cron players don't generally just roll over when they see a superheavy

 Grimgold wrote:
Gargantuan creatures - Destroyers work fairly well against wraith knights depending on kit, Stormsurges are more problematic having an armor save of 2+

Stormsurges have a 3+ armour

Nightbringer might be good against FMCs since you don't roll to hit with it's Fleshbane AP2. Knock it out the sky and then tarpit/kill with Wraiths.

Ofc C'Tan are a bit meh in this meh ,but it's still something

 Frozocrone wrote:
Nightbringer might be good against FMCs since you don't roll to hit with it's Fleshbane AP2. Knock it out the sky and then tarpit/kill with Wraiths.

Ofc C'Tan are a bit meh in this meh ,but it's still something

If you don't roll to hit you can't target a model with Hard to Hit, unless it has skyfire.
I'm pretty sure the FAQ clarified that.

But yeah, the flyer update screwed over necrons, as they now have no anti-air. I guess they really want us to invest in FW.
And they said it would be better under the new CEO.

Just some rough math (average rolls round up for luck) I did a while back:

Ghost ark full of warriors, rapid fire range vs 1 IK, shield toward Ark:

30 shots, 20 hits, 4 Glances, 2 Hull point lost.

Grimgold has a good break down.

The only problem I see with the Nightbringer's Gaze of Death not being able to target a flyer is that GoD is not a Shot. It is a aim and resolve power, which breaks most of the rules for shooting attacks. But I do know that ITC and others have ruled otherwise. The GW FAQ only refers to Blasts/novas/beams. Not powers like GoD.

The codex specific FAQs are coming soon, so don't count it out just yet

 Grimgold wrote:
or the super lame ability to jink in melee (DA/WS we are looking at you)

Please do tell how to jink in melee.

- Superheavy walkers

Actually we can deal with them quite well. Either Gauss (20 warriors in ghost arks for example) or heavy hitters like a Desi-Cult or Wraiths + Lords with Warscythes. This is no real problem for us

or the super lame ability to jink in melee (DA/WS we are looking at you)

Praetorians / Wraiths in Melee. If you want to take down a single Dark Shroud our Tomb Blades can do this for you.

- Flying monstrous creatures

We can't shoot them. But if your opponent brings too many of them, just wipe everything on the ground. Never had problems here.

- Free transport spam

This is something we can deal with. The Battle company is one of the strongest list around (second only to Eldar IMHO), but we as Necrons can handle it. A deathstar can cut trough, a Desicult + warriors on ghost arcs can open the rhinos / razorbacks and so on. Only problem her is grav-weapon spam IMHO and I still would say it is a 50-50 game (depending on list, terrain, mission and so on)


- Psychic shenanigans (rerollable 2++, Biomancy buffs, summoned Daemons)

Summoning is no special threat for us. 2++ Is also nothing special against us. If there are for example 9 screamers with 2++, let them run into 10 warriors for example If you do not fail a LD test (I love my catacomb command bark here) they will need 4 turns of Melee to kill them. So overall this 900 Deathstar kills 2 units of warriors over the game. FIne for me.

- Invisible deathstars

See above, we can tarpit quite well. Not running warriors, Wraiths or Lychguard with Orikan against E-weapons and so on.

- Fast-moving bike and jetbike armies

We need to engage fast. I really hate scatter laser spam lists. They have problems with our deathstar (Orikan + Desilord in Wraiths) and a Desicult, our own jetbikes and warriors on ghost arks can win the shooting duell. But we would love to have the first turn just to reduce the distance or we can put most of our army in reserve and then arrive via deep strike (Destroyers). It is possible, but not the best matchup for us.


- Gargantuan creatures (Stormsurge and Wraithknight specifically)

HERE we have a huge problem IMHO. I see no chance how to kill those 2 in any way. Gauss is ineffective (6 to wound, 3+ armor and then FnP) and Destroyers only have 24" reach. Even if Destroyers come near enough...6 shots, 5 hits, 1-2 wounds and then the opponent has cover and FnP against it.
In Melee you can just hope to cut them down, before they stomp on you.

Does anyone have a good solution here ?

Melionodr wrote:
- Superheavy walkers

Actually we can deal with them quite well. Either Gauss (20 warriors in ghost arks for example) or heavy hitters like a Desi-Cult or Wraiths + Lords with Warscythes. This is no real problem for us

I don't think it's a case of "or". I think it's a case of "and". I don't know about you, but every experience I've had and every batt-rep I've seen, Gauss is not the be-all/end-all solution to anything with an armor value. I don't know why this idea keeps getting propagated.
Superheavies need to be handled with a concerted effort between dedicated anti-AV with gauss to maybe finish it off. Warriors by themselves just are not effective enough. (unless you're dedicating large numbers of them to increase your statistical chances... but then you're devoting a massive chunk of your army to handling a single unit. Can work, but not exactly the most efficient solution).
TL;DR- Knights are still a problem for us.

Also, the main issue we have with trying to tarpit enemy Deathstars is most of the good ones will have hit and run. If you've got Wraiths or Scarabs or something else fast to catch them again, okay. But if not, you're a little screwed, because if they get away, they're going to run roughshod over whatever they want for the rest of the game.

Gauss is good only because it permits small arms to harm vehicles, something that is unique to the necrons, and because the current vehicle rules are terrible.

As an actual dedicated Anti-tank weapon though, its not great.
Its better than nothing, but then again necrons really have nothing when it comes to true ranged anti-armor capabilities.
Sure, there's the heavy gauss cannon, but that's stupidly expensive. Its still cheaper than in 3rd ed, but you're still paying quite a bit for a single S9 AP2 shot a turn.

My problem with gauss is that its dependent on the vehicle rules. In 4th and post 6 it was decent, as vehicles were/are pretty fragile.
In 5th it was useless, due to the nerfs to glances. As such, dedicated Anti-Tank weapons will always be the safer option across editions, as they rarely change; if they penetrate, they will do damage, and they are designed to penetrate.

Hotly debated for a while, and I think it may have gotten screwed in the new FAQ, but the death ray from FW could be used against invisible units.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its better than nothing, but then again necrons really have nothing when it comes to true ranged anti-armor capabilities.

#BringBackStormTeks2016

 skoffs wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its better than nothing, but then again necrons really have nothing when it comes to true ranged anti-armor capabilities.

#BringBackStormTeks2016

#MakeTeslaGreatAgain

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its better than nothing, but then again necrons really have nothing when it comes to true ranged anti-armor capabilities.

#BringBackStormTeks2016

#MakeTeslaGreatAgain

Solo 2016!

Lol Necrons can't even tarpit SM deathstars anymore even if they don't have HnR.... A Unit star containing Libby conclave can just cast null zone on a lychstar or wraithstar and there goes your 3++ to a 5++, plus lots of grav, force weapons, TH, and PF will chew thru any Necron units. Or they can cast electro displacement and swap out of combat. Next thing you know they will be in your back field wiping out your destroyers and warriors. A lychstar will probably never catch a SM deathstar anyways.

Necrons just can not beat a strong SM deathstar...

'Crons are firmly mid tier.
The only people who consider them OP are either armies further down the food chain or players who don't know how to use their army to its fullest extent.

 skoffs wrote:
'Crons are firmly mid tier.
The only people who consider them OP are either armies further down the food chain or players who don't know how to use their army to its fullest extent.

This is a good thing no? I think we should be mid tier instead of top and bottom since that means we can still be semi competitive all around. Even in the fluff of 40K Necrons aren't considered a huge threat but they pose a great challenge, so I think this is where Necrons should be.

 Sushi636 wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
'Crons are firmly mid tier.
The only people who consider them OP are either armies further down the food chain or players who don't know how to use their army to its fullest extent.

This is a good thing no? I think we should be mid tier instead of top and bottom since that means we can still be semi competitive all around. Even in the fluff of 40K Necrons aren't considered a huge threat but they pose a great challenge, so I think this is where Necrons should be.

With things like the Celestial Orrery and World Engines existing? Once Necrons wake up more, they will be a huge threat. Especially because they have the most advanced technology in the galaxy.

For Gargantuan Creatures, you gotta bring the fleshbane. Nightbringer is ideal, but there is also the voidreaper. The other option is a transdimensional beamers, but you need a lot of wraiths to have an impact.

Super Heavys fall pretty quick to Destroyer Cults, with the rerolling of armor penetration. Destroyers have great maneuverability for getting to those rear armor spots.

The only tactic against psykers is to use spyders for adamantium will and try and focus fire down the psykers before they get out of hand.

On a side note, I generally favor the transdimensional beamer over the whip coils. Wraiths and generally tough enough to survive until the iniative 2 step and having AP2 weaponry is always nice.

Destroyers are our best bet for true offense. The main question is if it is worth spending on a minimum Decurion to give them 4+++ instead of 5+++.

Most anything dies to or gets tarpitted by warrior blobs and/or ark warriors.

For the few things that don't (GMCs, and a bit Knights) will quickly be dealt with by heavy destroyers.

And wraith squads can clean up survivors.


So, the only thing left is planes, lucky you that cron air is darn efficenct.

Not really. The flyer update took away their skyfire. They can't even proc tesla.

Do you actually know anyone playing with that book? I sure don't.

Aren't those rules an update to the flyer rules?