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It's not limited edition, was told today that there will be expansions. Pinch of salt required of course.

Also got my grubby mitts on some of the models earlier (for the briefest of moments) and they were gorgeous.

I'm sure at some point when I buy the game, I will butcher them with my average painting skills.

I don't know how selling a product can destroy someone's credibility - short of them lying about it. If you think a salesman would need to lie about Silver Tower in order to sell it ... jeez, I dunno what to tell you or frankly why you are even bothering posting in this thread. I am not saying the product is perfect - and it certainly will not live up to the treasured childhood memories that people have built up over decades - but if you go into a purchase with that mnidset, it's on you and not the business from which you buy it.

 General Kroll wrote:
It's not limited edition, was told today that there will be expansions. Pinch of salt required of course.

Let's hope it's just a pinch - expansion ... as in real, physical product, not ethereal digital nothing, would be a massive treat!

 judgedoug wrote:

Ashitaka wrote:
Here's a post from my FLGS:

After taking a "heart-breaking" look of our demo copy and reading the rules, we have cut our order of WHQ by 70%. We advise caution in purchasing this product to ensure you know exactly what you are getting (or in this case, not getting).

LOL worst managed game store ever
"I dislike sales, so I will disparage my product."
No wonder companies such as Privateer Press and Asmodee are forced to prop up this failing business model with price fixing schemes.

you just cant take any criticism ? AoS is great and anybody who doesn't like it is stupid argument is getting really thin

Look If it was a re release with new stuff fine, good. but its not Its just another middle finger to anybody who loved the old games. my Lgs had to order a minimum amount and that's all hes doing he barely covers AoS sales. Ill contact the others I receive data from to see how it went.

I dont want Bloodbowl,Mordhiem, Warmaster or Man o War, to be Sigmarized maybe you do but I don't.

PP and others rely on their rather unique group play methods via press gangers n such so i understand them wanting that community. if a person knows a product is rubbish why should he sell it? he shouldn't.

 Manchu wrote:
I don't know how selling a product can destroy someone's credibility - short of them lying about it. If you think a salesman would need to lie about Silver Tower in order to sell it ... jeez, I dunno what to tell you or frankly why you are even bothering posting in this thread. I am not saying the product is perfect - and it certainly will not live up to the treasured childhood memories that people have built up over decades - but if you go into a purchase with that mindset, it's on you and not the business from which you buy it.

If the store owner knows what his regular customers expect out of a game, and he perceives after looking at the rules that new Quest will not be that game. And he also knows many of them are susceptable to go out and buy the game purely out of nostalgia for the old, then it would behoove that store to order less boxes to avoid getting stuck with unsold stock on the shelves, and while it's going above and beyond, it might be appreciated to give those nostalgia people a heads up that they might want to check the game out before ordering.

I'm all for honesty but that was far too vague a warning. Really should put in more detail of what he finds lacking.

migooo wrote:
if a person knows a product is rubbish why should he sell it? he shouldn't.

You're right, he shouldn't sell it. And what he absolutely, definitely shouldn't do is sell it while telling his customers how terrible it is. Anyhow, this is really not about one LGS owner - the reason it merits any discussion at all (in this thread at least) is that it's just empty negativity: "guys be wary of Silver Tower ... for reasons." Oh ok. This is even more irritating than the folks who cannot spend a minute to steady their hand and account for focus and glare when snapping a pic of a WD page or a model.

 Zywus wrote:
it might be appreciated to give those nostalgia people a heads up that they might want to check the game out before ordering

But .... he didn't. And there is a much better way to do this - you can talk about what the game does have. That way, you don't damage sales to people who are not looking to recapture their gone-for-good childhood. But again - the thread is not really about "random LGS owner self-sabotages" so much as ... let's just deal with this supposed "criticism" right now because it sounds like a problem with the customer ("but I wanted X") rather than the product.

Baron Klatz wrote:
I'm all for honesty but that was far too vague a warning. Really should put in more detail of what he finds lacking.

I suspect that anyone who has recieved early copies has signed NDA's to not reveal any game mechanics before launch.

That would explain why we have a bunch of unboxings, but no videos of gameplay.

 Manchu wrote:
I don't know how selling a product can destroy someone's credibility - short of them lying about it. If you think a salesman would need to lie about Silver Tower in order to sell it ... jeez, I dunno what to tell you or frankly why you are even bothering posting in this thread. I am not saying the product is perfect - and it certainly will not live up to the treasured childhood memories that people have built up over decades - but if you go into a purchase with that mnidset, it's on you and not the business from which you buy it.

 General Kroll wrote:
It's not limited edition, was told today that there will be expansions. Pinch of salt required of course.

Let's hope it's just a pinch - expansion ... as in real, physical product, not ethereal digital nothing, would be a massive treat!

From what I was told, it was going to be both. Support for additional scenarios etc through the app (ala AoS) and models etc down the line. Fingers crossed.

 General Kroll wrote:
From what I was told, it was going to be both. Support for additional scenarios etc through the app (ala AoS) and models etc down the line. Fingers crossed.

It would be awesome to see a line of figs released primarily for WHQ that could be used in AoS games ... and even cooler if these characters started appearing in the fluff!

Baron Klatz wrote:
I'm all for honesty but that was far too vague a warning. Really should put in more detail of what he finds lacking.

Agreed. There *may* be significant issues with this WHQ (possibly relating to being charged for any and all data sheets beyond the main game), but I wouldn't make such a statement without being able to back it up.

 Accolade wrote:
There *may* be significant issues with this WHQ

Given what I saw in Execution Force*, I am mostly concerned about component quality - like the cards and tiles, not the models obviously. If someone has them and thinks they're great or finds them lacking, please post!

*I have not seen the Calth or Overkill contents in person.

 Manchu wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
There *may* be significant issues with this WHQ

Given what I saw in Execution Force*, I am mostly concerned about component quality - like the cards and tiles, not the models obviously. If someone has them and thinks they're great or finds them lacking, please post!

*I have not seen the Calth or Overkill contents in person.

I don't mind complaints, I just want them to be more detailed than "It's bad guys, not ordering very many"

Which requires someone to read the rules. Or play it (which I think you can tomorrow? At some stores?)
So we should know then.

Many LGS have a demo copy already, I think they got them yesterday or the day before.

I did take a trip to the new GW store here in PA for lunch. (Never been so figured it was worth it to see)

Silver Tower looks good, so im excited I preordered

The realm of battle boards that are new also looked really good. They had a demo table set up with them on it. The guy said that the preorder for both (as apparently there is two styles) will be "very soon"

Also I asked on the point system for AoS. He said he didn't get tons of time with the book but as he was flipping through he did see Nagash is 700 points now. No idea on the army composition on whats a normal game of points for AoS.

Take with salt

I own an LGS. The reason many companies send out advanced copies of games is so that people can play them and test them out for themselves. Rather than tell your customer base that the game is terrible, demo a game for them and see if they like it. There are stores in my town with employees who bad-talked Warmachine for years and told every customer that 40K was a better game. The result was that they clearanced out all of their Warmachine and no-one plays it in their store, while my Warmachine leagues boomed. It's ok to have your own opinion, but it's just that, your opinion. I personally refuse to play Train games and Magic, but I would be cutting my wrists if I actively prevented people from buying those games. I train my clerks to ask what people like and guide them towards games that match those likes, but if a customer decides that he wants to buy a particular game, my clerks let him buy it. I have clerks that like games involving cats, but can you imagine them discouraging a sale because the game chosen doesn't have a single cat in it? I try to inform my customers about games, but in a neutral way. I provide computers for them to go on Board Game Geek and check the ratings of games. I run demos for them to try it out and make up their own minds about a game. Most sales people in the gaming industry are taught never to talk down another company's product. It makes you look petty and defensive. In sales, you can't discourage purchases and survive long. As for WHQ, the old WHQ played like a smaller version of WFB. You can't expect the new version to play like that. The new version is similar to AOS in that it's easy to learn and play, and each character can do a bunch of actions in their turn. Here's one cool improvement, there is no "roll a one phase." So your wizard doesn't have to feel guilty about wandering monsters swamping your party.

LOL.
It's not that criticism of AoS/WHQ is bad, it's a shining example of why FLGS go under.

They are nebulously disparaging a product and warning their customers off buying it. While still ordering it in to sell.
When you sell things for a living, you don't dictate what the customer does or doesn't want. You sell them what they want.

Or, y'know, don't sell stuff and pay bills with the lovely warm feeling of being liked by people who used to buy stuff from you.

So which is it? Is it worth buying or not?

@Smellingsalts - your store sounds pretty great actually!

Glad to hear about them ditching the "roll a one phase", my buddies were just regaling me with stories of getting into trouble with that (among other things). Some of this stuff, I suspect, is more fun to remember than to re-live.

 Manchu wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:
From what I was told, it was going to be both. Support for additional scenarios etc through the app (ala AoS) and models etc down the line. Fingers crossed.

It would be awesome to see a line of figs released primarily for WHQ that could be used in AoS games ... and even cooler if these characters started appearing in the fluff!

The best part is that half of the Hero characters in Quest have already been namedropped in fluff.

Doomseekers were in the Fyreslayers book, Knight Questors have been mentioned as have the Warrior-Priests.
Of the remaining three, two of them(the Tenebrae Shard, Mistweaver Saih) have been hinted at in the main AoS book(Malerion's forces have been said to be "prowling within the mists of Ulgu" and striking in the span of a thought) while the last(Darkoath Chieftain) is a relatively new concept.

Oh man ... sounds like we will have fun trying to guess what the new WHQ character could be based on namedrops in the fluff. It also seems like WHQ could be a cool way to preview upcoming lines for AoS!

 Zywus wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
I don't know how selling a product can destroy someone's credibility - short of them lying about it. If you think a salesman would need to lie about Silver Tower in order to sell it ... jeez, I dunno what to tell you or frankly why you are even bothering posting in this thread. I am not saying the product is perfect - and it certainly will not live up to the treasured childhood memories that people have built up over decades - but if you go into a purchase with that mindset, it's on you and not the business from which you buy it.

If the store owner knows what his regular customers expect out of a game, and he perceives after looking at the rules that new Quest will not be that game. And he also knows many of them are susceptable to go out and buy the game purely out of nostalgia for the old, then it would behoove that store to order less boxes to avoid getting stuck with unsold stock on the shelves, and while it's going above and beyond, it might be appreciated to give those nostalgia people a heads up that they might want to check the game out before ordering.

Pretty much this. (I think also it's the fact that it's the AOS version of WHQ, instead of something more traditional, and all that goes along with that.)

Also it's the biggest online games store retailer in the country, I believe, and probably the largest FLGS as well. He'll have no trouble moving the copies that he does order. They recently told me that AOS is outselling 40K at the store 2 or 3 to 1 these days.

I did get some details about the gameplay.

The rooms are always random. There is some fluff on the card when you flip over a new room. There's also a "choose your own adventure" style thing where you look up in the book based on what you rolled to get a brief paragraph of fluff.
Advances are pull 2 cards, keep 1. You keep advances and treasure between maps. No other leveling up, no towns between maps, no stores to buy and sell things.
Fixed stats like AOS (we've already seen this in the images).

He re-echoed that there will be expansions and support - this is a new main line from GW. They should have a preview of the first expansion (maybe the additional heroes mentioned before in this thread) in the next few weeks. Mentioned the rules for all the other AOS heroes to include them in WHQ.

 Manchu wrote:
Oh man ... sounds like we will have fun trying to guess what the new WHQ character could be based on namedrops in the fluff. It also seems like WHQ could be a cool way to preview upcoming lines for AoS!

First expansion characters, IMO, will likely be like the Tenebrae Shard or Mistweaver Saih: A new faction previewed with elements shown there.

In the day and age of free information most of us know exactly what they will be buying even before entering any store, for a store owner to badmouth a product they sell is revealing why some stores see little to no sales. I think that fella actually believes is in a strange mission to dissuade people to enjoy things he does not. Just weird!
Their store their funeral I guess.

The new images of the WHQ looks better and better. The paintjobs and sculpts are top quality. But I still like the old figs too. Just look what I found on my old sprues box.
They aged very well IMO.

Expect a bucket load of offers for those via PM now Navarro.

I hope the game is available to buy at Warhammer Fest, but I have my doubts.

Hmm I dont know how I feel about "First Expansion" "next few weeks"

Is this like content that should have been in the base game already kind of expansion??

Will have to wait and see..

migooo wrote:

Look If it was a re release with new stuff fine, good. but its not Its just another middle finger to anybody who loved the old games.

haha nope.
Having actually spent a not insignificant portion of my life playing Warhammer Quest (and fighting through hallways full of wandering monsters), it absolutely is not a middle finger to the old guard gamers like me. It's a "welcome back to the GW you knew and loved". It absolutely is a middle finger to the people that want Age of Sigmar - and by extension, GW - to fail, however, so there is that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
Glad to hear about them ditching the "roll a one phase", my buddies were just regaling me with stories of getting into trouble with that (among other things). Some of this stuff, I suspect, is more fun to remember than to re-live.

God, you have no idea. Warhammer Quest was like one of those games that was painful to play but you kept coming back to because you kept convincing yourself that the last 3.5 hours of fighting minotaurs and giant spiders lined up in several corridors was "fun". But, by god, it was! I think... just stop rolling 1's, wizard! Argh!

Chopxsticks wrote:
Hmm I dont know how I feel about "First Expansion" "next few weeks"

Is this like content that should have been in the base game already kind of expansion??

Will have to wait and see..

since it appears to be minis, no, because having more of them would have pushed the price up (much as we might wish it not to be so)

 judgedoug wrote:

migooo wrote:

Look If it was a re release with new stuff fine, good. but its not Its just another middle finger to anybody who loved the old games.

haha nope.
Having actually spent a not insignificant portion of my life playing Warhammer Quest (and fighting through hallways full of wandering monsters), it absolutely is not a middle finger to the old guard gamers like me. It's a "welcome back to the GW you knew and loved". It absolutely is a middle finger to the people that want Age of Sigmar - and by extension, GW - to fail, however, so there is that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
Glad to hear about them ditching the "roll a one phase", my buddies were just regaling me with stories of getting into trouble with that (among other things). Some of this stuff, I suspect, is more fun to remember than to re-live.

God, you have no idea. Warhammer Quest was like one of those games that was painful to play but you kept coming back to because you kept convincing yourself that the last 3.5 hours of fighting minotaurs and giant spiders lined up in several corridors was "fun". But, by god, it was! I think... just stop rolling 1's, wizard! Argh!

Agree to differ on the first point . Again my dislike of AoS. Does bias me to this re imaging. But i do love WHQ/ Dungeon, type games. They were my real first exposure to gaming so perhaps that is why. Maybe I will give it a go depending on this expansion, though I'm hoping that flying sigmarine is not the ranger

saying that maybe ill try to find the rules of the old one and knock up some stuff. cheers. i have a project now.

I thought the flying Stormcast had parts to build either version included? Both the bow or sword & board versions, no?

I think it would be fun to run an "original" party with the app expansion rules. Darkoath Chieftan for the barbarian, Battle Mage for the grey wizard, Waywatcher Lord for the ranger and a Warden King for the dwarf.

I am hoping that even if I don't get this game on launch I can get the app and bring a hero along to some games. My AoS army is based upon a "heroic party" of sorts so I have lots of great candidates to play games with already.