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Made in us
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Thats a cross and offends me.

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Made in us
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4th Obelisk On The Right

I am to understand, "Killing Hope" isn't the most academic read as Blum is apparently rather sarcastic and prone to sniping US policy makers. He is however a former employee of the US state department for which I think of dubious importance. He at least cites the hell out of everything so you know where he is getting his ideas from.

But yah, one day I will make up my mind on how all this works and would like to be able to really discuss US foreign policy.

Empire as a Way of Life has certainly given me some food for thought on the foundation of the country.

 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
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Somewhere in south-central England.

This is all very interesting but unless it touches on modern day politics it's a bit off topic.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Vaktathi wrote:
The zimmerman telegram was really a minor affair in the grand scheme of things .


Says you. Other historians cite it as a primary causis belli.

It is also cited in Wilson's request for a declaration of war.
"Even in checking these things and trying to extirpate them, we have sought to put the most generous interpretation possible upon them because we knew that their source lay, not in any hostile feeling or purpose of the German people toward us (who were no doubt as ignorant of them as we ourselves were) but only in the selfish designs of a government that did what it pleased and told its people nothing. But they have played their part in serving to convince us at last that that government entertains no real friendship for us and means to act against our peace and security at its convenience. That it means to stir up enemies against us at our very doors the intercepted note to the German minister at Mexico City is eloquent evidence."

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 BrotherGecko wrote:
I am to understand, "Killing Hope" isn't the most academic read as Blum is apparently rather sarcastic and prone to sniping US policy makers.


Well a quick google search on William Blum brings up his Wiki article... Which is certainly interesting. However, I wouldn't say that I see anything that makes me think he's a kook. Maybe he could have handled that Bin Laden thing a bit better from a PR stand point, and it is kind of a red flag for me on what exactly he thinks, but I'm not going to throw out judgments until I actually read something he's written.

Even kooks can be right, and I don't know that he is one yet XD

Really, my thought is that people might be taking some of the things written a bit too far. There's nothing fringe about the view of America and Japan as rival Imperial powers in the Pacific who were never going to agree because they were unwilling to accept not being the biggest fish in the deep blue sea. What strikes me as odd is taking that position and making a moral determination about the Pearl Harbor Attack, which is a pretty straight forward failure of Jus ad Bellum. America and Japan both being Imperial douche bags doesn't have much bearing on determining who the aggressor, and who was the aggressed (i.e. victim of aggression) was in 1941.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/12 18:44:56


   
Made in us
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The Great State of Texas

Obviously Japan did the attack an is absolutely responsible for their actions but at the same time the US was basically telling Japan to hit it.


Again, its the US shouldn't have worn that skirt into the bar. Japan just couldn't help itself.

You know what the doctrine is called in the law? Horsesh t.
If Hardeep at the Quickie Mart refuses to sell you a slushi because you're wearing a KKK hat, does that mean you can you shoot Hardeep in the face? He is not going to thank you and ask you to come again!


The US and a variety of countries have had embargoes against Iran, Iraq, the USSR, Cuba, Germany, South Africa etc etc etc. does that mean the US was "basically telling them to hit it?"

What about the OPEC embargo in the 1970s? Under this theory we could have swept in an Pwoned the ME, because hey they were asking for it.


MMM back to current politics. Trump is now saying his Unconstitutional "ban all da Muslimz" rant was just a suggestion. He also just suggested he may be open to social security cuts.
Mmm yes, pissing off old people - the highest voting percentage bloc in the US- is always a sure road to election.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/12 18:51:02


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Frazzled wrote:

MMM back to current politics. Trump is now saying his Unconstitutional "ban all da Muslimz" rant was just a suggestion. He also just suggested he may be open to social security cuts.
Mmm yes, pissing off old people - the highest voting percentage bloc in the US- is always a sure road to election.



Lol, All Hillary would need to do is say, "Y'all may hate me, but at least I don't hate your social security" and she'd have him beat in no time.


Also... I read an article in which Trump got really confused, spouted some nonsense unrelated to the question (the question was about veterans, the GI Bill and benefits)... and when asked even more directly, said that he "would not" support the GI Bill, as if it's some debated thing that hasn't been around since like, 1946.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/12 18:59:29


 
   
Made in us
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Denison, Iowa

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Go take upper-level sociology classes, they tend to be more nuetral than people think. But I am honestly tired of most of the stuff you said. Im actually in a Culture/Law of japan class right now and my proffessor just said "Japan Brought alot of (It) unto them to themselves. There where some real atrocities done during the war they still refuse to acknowledge" and he he grew in japa



I'm not sure if I'm surprised by your professor or understand him better since he's teaching in the US. Currently over 40% of the Japanese refuse to believe the Rape of Nanking ever happened at all. Another 40% believe that the events are grossly exaggerated. All this despite countless records and film recovered from Japanese military archives.

Statistics on who believes what show that it's pretty similar on what percent of the Japanese population denies the atrocities of unit 731, treatment of prisoners of war, and the Batton Death March.

Basically the Japanese as a whole are a population of atrocity deniers. I am honestly honored that your professor acknowledges his country's past mistakes.

When I think of deniers like this I an thankful the allies in Europe marched Germans through the death camps so they'd never be able to deny what happened. If they didn't, could you imagine half the country believing the tales of Holocaust deniers?
   
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The Great State of Texas

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:

MMM back to current politics. Trump is now saying his Unconstitutional "ban all da Muslimz" rant was just a suggestion. He also just suggested he may be open to social security cuts.
Mmm yes, pissing off old people - the highest voting percentage bloc in the US- is always a sure road to election.



Lol, All Hillary would need to do is say, "Y'all may hate me, but at least I don't hate your social security" and she'd have him beat in no time.


Also... I read an article in which Trump got really confused, spouted some nonsense unrelated to the question (the question was about veterans, the GI Bill and benefits)... and when asked even more directly, said that he "would not" support the GI Bill, as if it's some debated thing that hasn't been around since like, 1946.


Its like watching Will Ferrell running for President.
Can you imagine the Clinton campaign war room..."Wait we have to run against that guy?"

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 cuda1179 wrote:
Basically the Japanese as a whole are a population of atrocity deniers. I am honestly honored that your professor acknowledges his country's past mistakes.


Just being technical, 40% saying it didn't happen doesn't amount to a "whole population of atrocity deniers." Sounds like a bit of an exaggeration

   
Made in us
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The Great State of Texas

a mod has already warned-lets get back OT now methinks.

1. Lets move on to current politics. Trump is out there!
2. Lets not besmirch an entire nation for a government who's ashes were were dumped in the drink 70 years ago. They didn't do it, and they have to deal with living without quality Tex Mex. How could anyone survive?
3. Trump is out there!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/12 19:10:35


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Think part of it is it did not happen during their time frame. US never apologized for Slavery. Unsure if they even apologized to the Native Americans with all the treaties that were broken.

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Interesting perspectives on Trump's rise:
Spoiler:

The events of the past week have demonstrated that there is probably nothing Donald Trump might do to mollify those in the conservative establishment opposed to him. After winning decisively in Indiana, Trump praised his rivals Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio—respectively the most conservative and most establishment-favored among his opponents, while looking forward to a “united” party. In response, he received nothing but disdain from the GOP establishment: a patronizing statement from speaker Paul Ryan, expressing “hope” that Trump will somehow morph into an acceptable GOP nominee. Jeb Bush and Lindsey Graham reneged on pledges they had made with much solemnity last summer to support the eventual GOP nominee, a pledge whose origins lay in the party’s worry that Trump as an outsider might launch a third-party bid. In the background, neoconservative figure Bill Kristol was tweeting about his own efforts to organize an anti-Trump third party. Other neoconservative writers had been penning gushing references about Hillary’s acceptability to foreign-policy hawks for months. At times it seemed as if virtually the entire GOP intellectual apparat, its editors and featured newspaper columnists and think-tank staffers were falling over themselves to denounce the man who had won millions of Republican primary votes from New Hampshire to Arizona to every red and blue state in between.

It’s simple enough to point to Trump’s weaknesses as a campaigner or to his political inexperience in explaining this rejection. These are obvious and have been repeated well past extraordinary redundancy for months now, though the most used damning phrases (misogynist, Mexican rapists, ban Muslims) are always stripped of whatever qualifications Trump supplied. They have been aired repeatedly in the anti-Trump attack ads that have saturated primary states since mid March. But Trump’s failings as a campaigner—undisciplined tweeting, bombast, changes of positions, disdain for the conventional wisdom (which at least sometimes is conventional because it is sound) don’t account for the depth of the hostility. That’s because Trump’s victories are not due his personal qualities (which are seldom overrated by his supporters) so much as to the extraordinary weakness of what establishment conservatism has stood for and promises. For some tens of millions of American voters, it matters less that Trump is clearly not well versed in policy nuances than that he has somehow identified and targeted the weakest points of establishment conservatism.

For what has the establishment GOP accomplished for its voters—excepting those in its well-nurtured class of consultants and lobbyists? In early 2015, the veteran pollster and Democratic consultant Pat Caddell analyzed a poll of Republican and independent voters, and was shocked by the widespread of animosity respondents expressed towards their own leaders. “The GOP leadership, the lawyers, the lobbyists, the consultant class of the Republican party don’t understand that these people are angry” Caddell said, continuing “I’ve never seen anything like this at the base of a party. And that is why the analogy to the Whigs is not so far-fetched.” This was six months before Trump walked down the escalator at Trump Tower.

He wasn’t talking about social-issue anger, which has been around for two generations and may be ebbing, but the emotions of people slowly losing their standing in their country. And what can the contemporary Republican Party point to? The war in Iraq, its relentless cheerleading for a war in Iran; lower taxes for the very rich; for its most establishment leaders, legalization of illegal immigrants. These all are proposed against a backdrop of accelerating economic inequality, and the shocking demographic decline—early death through hopelessness one might call it—of less-educated white people. The latter are probably not Trump voters, who more or less match the Republican average in income. But you can’t go to a Trump rally and sense that Trump voters are not so far removed from those people who have given up, and likely feel a sense of shared destiny with them more than does the typical Obama, Hillary or Romney voter. Trump, many conservative intellectuals claim, is not a conservative; but the natural retort to them is what precisely, with their agenda of foreign wars, middle- and working-class job loss, and high rates of immigration, are they trying to conserve?

In Trump’s case, the answer probably is something like an Eisenhower conservatism, with big government and secure employment. Trump was a boy in New York when Ike was carrying the state by twenty-two points.

Trumpism is also, as some have noted but the mainstream press has ignored, an American variation of a pan-Western phenomenon. A closely contended referendum about Britain’s withdrawal from the European Union awaits; Marine Le Pen (after purging her father and moderating her party) is the leading politician in France (though the National Front is smaller than the combined center-left and establishment right), and even Germany—deeply and for good reason suspicious of any antiestablishment conservatism, has produced its own “nationalist” conservative party. Ditto Sweden, The Netherlands, Austria, anywhere you look. Due to geography more than any other factor, Europe’s immigration crisis is more severe than America’s, but its newly ascending conservative parties are interested in approximately the same thing—a desire to conserve the best elements about the society of their parents and own youth, including such attributes as a secure and self-confident working class and a considerable sense of common and shared culture. One can denounce such aspirations as bigotry and xenophobia all one wants, but their durability suggests that they are universal, natural and deeply rooted in the human personality.

In the United States, the question of the day is to what degree will the Republican Party go to accommodate and support these aspirations, of which Donald Trump has improbably become leading vector. It is clear that the answer for the some of the GOP intellectuals, the hardcore neocons and most of the people at National Review, the answer is no, not one bit, not ever. These publications have developed an almost religious devotion to hawkish foreign policies, and a comparable affection for free trade. Their feelings about immigration may be ambivalent, but like most of the American upper class they are immunized from the worse effects. Their vision of America as an indispensable nation is one which requires America’s meddling in every corner of the globe.

The reactions of politicians are harder to predict, probably because understanding and in some sense accommodating themselves to popular sentiment is part of their job description. For instance, Lindsey Graham and Jeb Bush, both humiliated by Trump in the primaries, fall clearly into the camp that will try everything possible to destroy his candidacy. John McCain—ideologically more or less identical on the same wavelength as Graham, hawkish and pro-immigration, now seeks to keep his options open. Did reports of Trump voters waiting hours in Saturday traffic jams on the Arizona highways –while protesters blocked roads in efforts to inflict mayhem on those seeking to attend Trump rallies, strike some chord within him? Did the fact that Trump pulled 47 percent in Arizona, nearly doubling Ted Cruz’s second-place score, temper his impulse to be disdainful?

In any case, whether it wins, loses, or something in between, what Trump represents will now continue to find a political outlet. Trump was underestimated by the establishment press, because “populism” always loses. A different sort of politician, not able to self-fund through the primaries, less self-confident, less, if you will, bombastic, could never have broken through informal establishment cordon which separates serious candidates from fringe ones.

But Trump did break through, and the GOP won’t be same any time soon. It wasn’t the same after Barry Goldwater, even if the Arizona Republican (a completely different type of ideological figure than Trump) went down to inglorious defeat, shunned by establishment figures of his own party. Trump, whose victory reflects deeper historical forces than Goldwater’s did, will make a greater impact.

I don't know if most of the Trump voters are angling for that "Eisenhower conservatism, with big government and secure employment"... Maybe we do, but I'm unconvinced at the moment...

I think it's worth noting 2 things:
1) Trump recieved an unprecendent "in kind" contribution from the media in the form of free "face time" (worth approx $2billion), much to Nate Silver's chargrin.
2) The GOP's failings could simply be it's utter failure at public persuasion in the media. Trump, on the other hand, has figured out how to manipulate the media. You can argue about the ends to which he's doing it, but he's better at it than any of the candidates at this point.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
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On moon miranda.

 LordofHats wrote:


No they didn't. That's why we were so peeved, and Britain and France liked harping on it to get us involved. Under no standard of war is permission granted to attack third parties who are not engaged in the conflict militarily. The World Wars were marked in general by the willingness of states to completely ignore what were the assumed conventions of warfare and wartime conduct (chemical gas, unrestricted submarine warfare, trench guns, etc), but that doesn't change that the US was not at war with Germany, and Germany had no right under the norms of war to attack American ships and passengers as military targets. Germany giving warning that they were going to attack a non-party to their war doesn't make it better anymore than Zimmerman explaining "we were just saying "if there's a war,"."
Under the laws of war, blockade could be imposed and vessels, even neutral ones, could be stopped and war material seized. The British just labelled everything as War material and prevented shipping into Germany entirely from all nations, seizing cargo and vessels, including foodstuffs resulting in starvation even amongst the German civilian population. The Germans could only counter this with Submarines...which quickly determined seizing cargo wasnt possible.

Either way the Germans were screwed if they did nothing, and nobody else in the same position would accept those conditions.

To put it in a more modern perspective, if the US and China went to war tomorrow, would the US freely allow Indian or Brazillian vessels carrying arms and industrial materials into Chinese ports without challenge? No, of course not. Would anyone accept, with a straight face, that a Brazillian or Indian citizen aboard a Chinese vessel made it immune to attack by the US in such a situation? No, of course not.Thats the kind of stuff the US was trying to get away with.

Britain was turning away neutral, noncombatant vessels away from German ports and boarding their vessels and seizing their goods,


And that's Britains choice, and their problem.
except nobody was raising the same stink about it with the British...because we were making gobs of money off of them. They basically got a free pass.



I think that under the standards of Maritime law at the time that's a dubious position. It's less likely to piss someone off as much as blowing ships up though.
sure, but the nature of submarines, the only option Germany had, basically means there isnt an alternative.

There's a difference between sinking a British ship when you can't possible know it's passenger manifest, and attacking ships from a country you are not at war with. One is an unreasonable expectation, the other is not.
except that the US position was that even on a Britsh flagged ship, a US citizen being on board effectively made it immune to attack, and there was demonstrable use by the Britsh of false flags (which was one of the major impetus for the opening of neutral vessels to attack).

And again, the rules governing blockades allowed intercept of neutral vessels and potentially sinking them, the US only paid minimal lip service to the British doing this however, and that was a key component of Germany stepping up its efforts.





Eh, as a pretext for war "you attacked my people and their property even though we aren't at war with you" is a pretty good pretext for war.
except its more "my ships are carrying weapons, munitions, and other material explicitley intended for a combatants war effort...but because I'm not openly at war with you, you cant stop them". That really doesnt fly with anyone.


The British certainly didnt allow Neutral ships into German ports regardless of what they were carrying, the only difference with the Germans was that they used Submarines instead of surface vessels, which necessitated sinkings. Aside from that the British were doing literally the exact same things to Neutral ships, stopping them, seizing cargo and ships, and interfering with free navigation.

I think I've committed a blunder in terminology. When attacking unrestricted submarine warfare, I don't mean to attack Germany for pragmatically deciding they couldn't be nice and play by traditional Prize Rules (that was suicidal as you point out). I mean to attack Germany to attacking ships belonging to states they were not at war with (both with Submarines and surface vessels).
. If they're carrying war material and a blockade is being enforced then action can certainly be taken, again the issue was the use of the submarine vs surface vessels and the tactics that entailed.

That's a war crime, and even in World War II, the US didn't go that far.
there werent really too many neutral powers in WW2 to sink really, that said, neutral powers like Sweden certainly faced hostile action and interference from the UK against its shipping and trade.

Of course, in World War II we had the advantage that pretty much everyone was on someone's side, so it was really hard to sink a ship belonging to someone we weren't at war with if only for lack of targets.
right, it just wasnt an issue that came up *too* much.


 Frazzled wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
The zimmerman telegram was really a minor affair in the grand scheme of things .


Says you. Other historians cite it as a primary causis belli.
says me regarding the telegram itself, it was the poorly handled response that wss the bigger issue

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/12 19:21:18


IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

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USA

 Vaktathi wrote:
Under the laws of war, blockade could be imposed and vessels, even neutral ones, could be stopped and war material seized.


The right to blockade does not extend to attacking neutral ships in open seas.

To put it in a more modern perspective, if the US and China went to war tomorrow, would the US freely allow Indian or Brazillian vessels carrying arms and industrial materials into Chinese ports without challenge? No, of course not. Would anyone accept, with a straight face, that a Brazillian or Indian citizen aboard a Chinese vessel made it immune to attack by the US in such a situation? No, of course not. Thats the kind of stuff the US was trying to get away with.


I think the US would totally do it (I think we'd try bribing them first to be fair, but assuming that fails), and India and Brazil would be completely within their rights to declare war, because we've just started carrying out unilateral attacks on their citizens and economy with no formal declaration of conflict, and our might make right mentality in international politics doesn't actually make us right.

except nobody was raising the same stink about it with the British...because we were making gobs of money off of them. They basically got a free pass.


Are we talking about Britain or Germany? I mean we can talk about Britain too, but what was going on with Britain and Germany doesn't give Germany carte blanch to attack America. "Britain is being unfair so I'm going to attack America" doesn't fly.

except that the US position was that even on a Britsh flagged ship, a US citizen being on board effectively made it immune to attack, and there was demonstrable use by the Britsh of false flags (which was one of the major impetus for the opening of neutral vessels to attack).


"Britain is being unfair so I'm going to attack America" doesn't fly.

That really doesn't fly with anyone.


Then Germany should have declared war, if they felt so aggrieved. They didn't, and carried out wartime acts anyway. That's a war crime. Either America is the enemy and they are justified to declare a state of war, or America is neutral and they have no right to attack it's citizens and property, or interfere with our economic enterprises. They can't have their cake and eat it too.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/12 19:34:11


   
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Guys, c'mon, back on topic. I understand Kilkrazy didn't use red text in a 30pt font, but the words are still there.

Trump and Ryan have had a meeting, and are working towards coming together. I wonder what will ultimately come of it? Trump is a divisive figure within the Republican party, and nobody with half a brain should expect the entire party to walk lockstep in unison right away. Trump won enough of the party to get the nomination, but now he needs to win the rest of the party, and enough of the middle, to win the Gold House.

If Trump losing the election is a foregone conclusion, what hurts the GOP more in the long run: a unified front to support Trump, or remain a house divided? If they unite behind Trump and still lose in 2016, how much worse will it be in 2020? If the GOP broke itself up now and rebuilt, would they be better off for it in 2020?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/12 19:34:22


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That is a good question. Either way the Democrats are going to pin Trump on the party and all downstream candidates.


The problem for the Democrats is, is the Trump/Democartic Alliance succeeds and obliterates the Republican Party, then the US will be a one party state.

If you want to see what a one party state is like-look at Mexico during the PRI years. They become soft dictatorships.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/12 19:36:28


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
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 Tannhauser42 wrote:

If Trump losing the election is a foregone conclusion, what hurts the GOP more in the long run: a unified front to support Trump, or remain a house divided? If they unite behind Trump and still lose in 2016, how much worse will it be in 2020? If the GOP broke itself up now and rebuilt, would they be better off for it in 2020?


Personally, I would think it'd be smart politics to divest themselves from the "crazy" element of the party. Whether it's an official break up, or whether it's just a massive shaking up of the party planks to drive the crazies out, I don't know... but speaking towards both sides of the aisle, it's pretty clear to me that what we're seeing today cannot be good for us in the long run.
   
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Somewhere in south-central England.

 cuda1179 wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Go take upper-level sociology classes, they tend to be more nuetral than people think. But I am honestly tired of most of the stuff you said. Im actually in a Culture/Law of japan class right now and my proffessor just said "Japan Brought alot of (It) unto them to themselves. There where some real atrocities done during the war they still refuse to acknowledge" and he he grew in japa



I'm not sure if I'm surprised by your professor or understand him better since he's teaching in the US. Currently over 40% of the Japanese refuse to believe the Rape of Nanking ever happened at all. Another 40% believe that the events are grossly exaggerated. All this despite countless records and film recovered from Japanese military archives.

Statistics on who believes what show that it's pretty similar on what percent of the Japanese population denies the atrocities of unit 731, treatment of prisoners of war, and the Batton Death March.

Basically the Japanese as a whole are a population of atrocity deniers. I am honestly honored that your professor acknowledges his country's past mistakes.

When I think of deniers like this I an thankful the allies in Europe marched Germans through the death camps so they'd never be able to deny what happened. If they didn't, could you imagine half the country believing the tales of Holocaust deniers?


The problem is that Japanese history teaching starts with the formation of the solar system and gradually progresses through time until the 20th century is tacked on as a minor topic right at the end when people are frantically revising for university entrance exams in maths and so on.

Thus the vast majority of modern Japanese never are taught about WW2 in any level of detail.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
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The Great State of Texas

The problem is,

1. Some of the issues driving Trump's success-illegal immigration, craptacular structural economy, lack of concern over the Middle Class are real issues, crappy international deals, and mirror many of the concerns of the Bernistas. I mean the Democratic Party used to espouse that.

2. How do you separate that from the wackjob authoritarians who like a little Mussolini in their spaghetti and are just fine with banning all muslims derp derp?

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
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 Frazzled wrote:
The problem is,

1. Some of the issues driving Trump's success-illegal immigration, craptacular structural economy, lack of concern over the Middle Class are real issues, crappy international deals, and mirror many of the concerns of the Bernistas. I mean the Democratic Party used to espouse that.

2. How do you separate that from the wackjob authoritarians who like a little Mussolini in their spaghetti and are just fine with banning all muslims derp derp?



Aren't most of those people the same?? I mean, many of the videos I've seen are of dudes standing there with their sister-wives or cousin-moms talking about how Trump is an "outsider" and that's what we need because he'll get rid of all them dirty mooslems and Meksi-cans and whatnot....
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Jihadin wrote:
Anyone else hear about Warren wanting the IRS to do our taxes themselves?


It's a pretty reasonable thing to suggest. In other countries the government sends you a completed tax form, and you can either sign it and accept it as correct or submit your own version if the standard assumptions are not correct. In most cases the standard version is correct, and "doing your taxes" consists of double-checking the numbers and mailing back a single form. The IRS already has your information (that's how they send you all those forms) and could probably do this, but the tax software industry lobbies against it since it would make their products obsolete.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
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USA

I'm all for having to do less work in tax season

   
Made in us
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Northern IA

They need to get back to the roots of the Republican party:

Anti-slavery = anti-sex trafficing, etc

Equal rights (1854) = equal rights

Anti discrimination (1900) = anti discrimination

Anti-monopoly (1900) = anti monopoly


General welfare and harmony in government (1864) = bipartisan cooperation

Liberal and just immigration (1864) = self explanitory

Collective bargaining for labor (1936) = pro union, less corporate

* * * * * *

Just a few things that I think a "new" and revised Republican party should/could look toward.

They should worry far, far less about the religous right wing and become closer to the middle.

Have the religous zealots ever actually tipped the scales in a general election? I honestly dont think they have...yet they are constantly embraced and pandered to.

It is rather interesting to see the shift in platforms from then until now....

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/platforms.php

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/12 20:19:07


I destroy my enemies when I make them my friends.

Three!! Three successful trades! Ah ah ah!
 
   
Made in us
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The Great State of Texas

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
The problem is,

1. Some of the issues driving Trump's success-illegal immigration, craptacular structural economy, lack of concern over the Middle Class are real issues, crappy international deals, and mirror many of the concerns of the Bernistas. I mean the Democratic Party used to espouse that.

2. How do you separate that from the wackjob authoritarians who like a little Mussolini in their spaghetti and are just fine with banning all muslims derp derp?



Aren't most of those people the same?? I mean, many of the videos I've seen are of dudes standing there with their sister-wives or cousin-moms talking about how Trump is an "outsider" and that's what we need because he'll get rid of all them dirty mooslems and Meksi-cans and whatnot....


See this is why the Democrats need to watch it. They believe their own PR BS. While the wackoes are out there, these are real issues. If they weren't do you think Bernie would have gotten any delegates? Its the same reason the unions are dead. Many of those former union voters are now Trump voters. D's haven't been any more concerned about the working class than the Republicans since the 90s. HRC sure wasn't talking about it until Bernie started Berning her (when he got back from Berning Man )

We may be seeing a shift to a Worker's party and a nonworker's party.


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






 cuda1179 wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Go take upper-level sociology classes, they tend to be more nuetral than people think. But I am honestly tired of most of the stuff you said. Im actually in a Culture/Law of japan class right now and my proffessor just said "Japan Brought alot of (It) unto them to themselves. There where some real atrocities done during the war they still refuse to acknowledge" and he he grew in japa



I'm not sure if I'm surprised by your professor or understand him better since he's teaching in the US. Currently over 40% of the Japanese refuse to believe the Rape of Nanking ever happened at all. Another 40% believe that the events are grossly exaggerated. All this despite countless records and film recovered from Japanese military archives.

He is japanese and he is very critical of his nation. Heck, Japan still refuses to acknowledge unit 731.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 LordofHats wrote:
I'm all for having to do less work in tax season

And then, suddenly, every american finds out they owe atleast 2000$ every tax season for some reason.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/12 20:19:25


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Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

Have the religous zealots ever actually tipped the scales in a general election? I honestly dont think they have...yet they are constantly embraced and pandered to.


They have. Well, maybe not zealots, but the Religious Right yes. They were vital in the formation of the "New Right" back in the 60s, and helped get Reagan elected. Of course, it's more complicated than that. The realignment of the political parties that occurted in the 1960s was heavily based in opinion on race issues. Something use to bring conservatives together and unite them behind one platform was that they were all white, but that was rapidly becoming politically unacceptable, so Conservative politics did some word shuffling and switched to "Americanism" and "Traditional Values", and used Christian faith as a major uniting force on both those things.

So yeah. The Christian Right has been politically significant, and they have tipped the scales in general elections. See the election of Reagan in 1980. The number of Christians voting Republican went up compared to 1976 (though not by much), but what really swung it was that Christians in the East and South switched to Reagan away from Carter who they voted for in 76.

The big thing Reagan discovered in 1980, and taught the GOP, was that the demographics of the electorate could be manipulated by building the Religious Right. It didn't provide winning margins per se, but it shifted the electoral map in their favor.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/12 20:22:51


   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 hotsauceman1 wrote:
And then, suddenly, every american finds out they owe atleast 2000$ every tax season for some reason.


If you don't agree with the government's numbers you're always free to do the work yourself. Having the IRS do the work just lets the majority of people with simple taxes avoid the hassle of duplicating the IRS's numbers.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

Oi... this has a potential to shatter the PPACA:
Judge rules in favor of Republicans in Obamacare challenge
Spoiler:
A federal judge ruled Thursday against the administration in a challenge to a portion of the Affordable Care Act brought by the House of Representatives.

At issue is the "cost sharing" provision in the law that requires insurance companies offering health plans through the law to reduce out-of-pocket costs for policy holders who qualify. The government offsets the added costs to insurance companies by reimbursing them.

But lawyers for the House argued that Congress did not properly approve the money for those reimbursements.

U.S. District Judge Rosemary Collyer, who was appointed to the bench by President George W. Bush, sided with the challengers but said that she would stay her ruling pending appeal.

"Congress is the only source for such an appropriation, and no public money can be spent without one," she wrote.

The Obama administration is expected to appeal the decision.

Jonathan Turley, a lawyer for the House, said the ruling shows that the President's signature health care law "violated the Constitution in committing billions of dollars from the United States Treasury without the approval of Congress."

"Judge Collyer's opinion is a resounding victory not just for Congress but for our constitutional system as a whole," Turley said in a statement. "We remain a system based on the principle of the separation of powers and the guarantee that no branch or person can govern alone. It is the very touchstone of the American constitutional system and today that principle was reaffirmed in this historic decision."

White House press secretary Josh Earnest on Thursday characterized Republicans' efforts as unprecedented, and predicted the administration would prevail.

"This suit represents the first time in our nation's history that Congress has been permitted to sue executive branch over a disagreement about how to interpret a statute," Earnest said during his daily briefing. "These are the kinds of political disputes that characterize a democracy. It's unfortunate that Republicans have resorted to a taxpayer-funded lawsuit to re-fight a political fight they keep losing."

An announcement on appealing Thursday's decision would come from the Justice Department once the ruling is fully assessed, Earnest said.

Former House Speaker John Boehner, who led the effort on the suit, called the decision "a victory."

"Today's Obamacare decision is a victory for the American people, and for House Republicans, who have stood firm for the rule of law," he tweeted.
Today's Obamacare decision is a victory for the American people, and for House Republicans, who have stood firm for the rule of law.

— John Boehner (@SpeakerBoehner) May 12, 2016

"This case is far from over," said Timothy Jost, a supporter of the law at the Washington and Lee University School of Law.

He said that last fall the judge was wrong to rule that the House had the standing to bring the case in the first place and that he expects the appeals court to reverse on that threshold issue.

"Ultimately, if her opinion holds, and it is unlikely that it would, it would mean that insurers will have to come up with a way of providing the cost sharing reductions, and that would probably mean increased premiums down the road," he said.

Keep in mind that the plantiff's attorney is Jonathan Turley: Turley is widely regarded as a champion of the rule of law, and his stated positions in many cases and his self-proclaimed "socially liberal agenda", have led liberal and progressive thinkers to also consider him a champion for their causes, especially on issues such as separation of church and state, environmental law, civil rights, and the illegality of torture. Politico has referred to Turley as a "liberal law professor and longtime civil libertarian".

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
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Woohoo, I guess its back to Gofundme for the vast majority of americans to pay for their medical bills.

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