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 DalinCriid wrote:
I feel disappointed by necron formations that gives you +4 reanimation to canoptek wraiths and easy repair on monolith but yeah, tell me more how spoiled we SM players are...

I'm well aware SM players have it really good in terms of options. I was discussing my frustration with how GW had a chance to make other major Chapters actually shine a bit apart from the Smurfs. The Legiones Astartes rules for Salamanders and their RoW from 30k easily make them a good army to take with a particular play style they excel at. Why not do the same for all the big name SM Chapters for 40k?

So do you have anything relevant to what I discussed to say other than "quit your bitching?"

BrianDavion wrote:
ohh boo hoo hoo! my chapter special strike force isn't notably better in every way then the Gladius strike force! BOO HOO HOO! then take the gladius, you've still got the options to use two strike forces, unlike Ultramarines who JUST have the Gladius

Strike Force Ultra.......

And if we want to get technical about it, they have their own unique rules given anyway within the regular codex. While I was baffled by them nor being in the Angels of Death supplement, I do remember reading in that supplement that they follow the codex astartes pretty strictly, so they'd stick to what's on the codex: space marines more than anything I bet. However, the skyhammmer annihilation force is from the Ultramarines so they do have something in there. Isn't the first non chapter specific strike force (Anvil Strike Force I think it was...) supposed to be something that they mention the Ultramarines would use?

First and foremost I'm pretty cheesed that it was only vanilla marines. They actually could have fixed BA , but instead they gave more stuff to the kid that's already spoiled rotten.

As am IF player I'm pretty satisfied with the content. Would have been cool to get a few more combat oriented formations, but I definitely can't complain. So yea. Really my only complaint is that it was Codex:Vanilla Marines+1 (feth everyone else). Of all the books that need love, C:SM was near of not the bottom of the list. I can give this a pass as it was supposed to be a 30th Anniversary Space Marines event. Which begs the question why the DA, SW and most needed BA got neglected. Again.

I guess BA can use the spells, but without the conclave, we really can't.

I find it quite sad that those posting see fit to disregard the OP, after his repeated requests to keep it on topic.

 krodarklorr wrote:

nekooni wrote:
I fear that the next major content will feature Necrons and one of the non-vanilla Marines (best case: BA) instead, tbh.

Fear? I would love for a Necron supplement. Please and thank you. Every other ridiculous army has one.

I'm not sure any of the dynasties have enough established presence in lore to justify their own splat book. My hope is we end up with Guardians of the tomb style supplement, focusing on canoptek units, because I think a mechanical bug army would look cool on the board and be kind of an interesting contrast to say the tyranids. Maybe an insane cult of necrons that worship the star gods ala the old crons, that are actively using transferance on the younger races to make more slaves to the star gods. Dragon is still out there, and probably on mars, so a guy can hope.

Martel732 wrote:
I guess BA can use the spells, but without the conclave, we really can't.

Of course they can use them. You don't need an op Librarius conclave to cast a gak load of the new psychic powers.

 General Kroll wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I guess BA can use the spells, but without the conclave, we really can't.

Of course they can use them. You don't need an op Librarius conclave to cast a gak load of the new psychic powers.

The Lib Conclave is now a 270pts psyker unit that can reliably (on 2+) cast 2 Powers out of the known 3 Primaris + 6 random powers + Force with the 6 Warp Charges it provides. That's pretty expensive.
Smurfs can improve it with Tiggy to rerollable 2+, casting 3 powers out of 3+7+Force known from 7 charges, but now that Psyker Unit - all of them with just 3+ saves, mind you - costs 345pts.
Sure, you can use one of the defensive powers reliably, but that's limiting your remaining power count at 1 (2 with Tiggy).

TL;DR: LibConclave got a massive nerf, so all the marines can use the new powers equally well (assuming you grant access to your BA/GK/... psykers as a houserule/play by RAI("most likely")).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zelarias wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
ohh boo hoo hoo! my chapter special strike force isn't notably better in every way then the Gladius strike force! BOO HOO HOO! then take the gladius, you've still got the options to use two strike forces, unlike Ultramarines who JUST have the Gladius

Strike Force Ultra.......

And if we want to get technical about it, they have their own unique rules given anyway within the regular codex. While I was baffled by them nor being in the Angels of Death supplement, I do remember reading in that supplement that they follow the codex astartes pretty strictly, so they'd stick to what's on the codex: space marines more than anything I bet. However, the skyhammmer annihilation force is from the Ultramarines so they do have something in there. Isn't the first non chapter specific strike force (Anvil Strike Force I think it was...) supposed to be something that they mention the Ultramarines would use?

Isn't the Strike Force Ultra available to all Vanilla chapters, though?

And yes, the Anvil SF is a generic one, usable by all Vanilla chapters.

Quick question - I'm running Imperial Fists. If I use the IF-specific detachment, and I take two Battle Demi-Companies, do I get the 'company support' bonus? (free transports).

I'm sort of assuming not, because I think that's a bonus of the Gladius, but I don't have my codex at the moment (lent it to a mate... doh!).

I was going to run Battle Company (because it's on par with the kind of filth lists my housemate will run) but I wouldn't shy away from the IF detachment (as it's easy to add in TFC, Vindicator, Stormtalons) as we occasionally play toned-down armies (I have tyranids, he has DE).

zerosignal wrote:
Quick question - I'm running Imperial Fists. If I use the IF-specific detachment, and I take two Battle Demi-Companies, do I get the 'company support' bonus? (free transports).

I'm sort of assuming not, because I think that's a bonus of the Gladius, but I don't have my codex at the moment (lent it to a mate... doh!).

I was going to run Battle Company (because it's on par with the kind of filth lists my housemate will run) but I wouldn't shy away from the IF detachment (as it's easy to add in TFC, Vindicator, Stormtalons) as we occasionally play toned-down armies (I have tyranids, he has DE).

No,as you already pointed out the Company Support thing is a Gladius rule, not a Battle Demi-Company rule.

zerosignal wrote:
Quick question - I'm running Imperial Fists. If I use the IF-specific detachment, and I take two Battle Demi-Companies, do I get the 'company support' bonus? (free transports).

I'm sort of assuming not, because I think that's a bonus of the Gladius, but I don't have my codex at the moment (lent it to a mate... doh!).

I was going to run Battle Company (because it's on par with the kind of filth lists my housemate will run) but I wouldn't shy away from the IF detachment (as it's easy to add in TFC, Vindicator, Stormtalons) as we occasionally play toned-down armies (I have tyranids, he has DE).

No, the Company Support bonus is exclusive to the Gladius Strike Force. The Sternhammer has its own bonuses. There is a bit of a trade-off. You can get Twin-Linked Bolt weapons, even without using two Core choices, or you can get free transports with two Battle Demi-Companies. The Sternhammer definitely is much more versatile, due to all of its cheap Auxiliaries and the fact you only need to bring one core choice.

 troa wrote:
I find it quite sad that those posting see fit to disregard the OP, after his repeated requests to keep it on topic.

This. Any discussion concerning marines is apparently bound to attract traitors who can't resist a chance to complain.

The only thing I get from the book are the new psychic powers and I didn't even expect to get those so I can't say I feel disappointed. Now I just need to finish my WS Libby Conclave and we're ready to roll.

Meh, my Skyhammer, 1st Company 1500 point list now has a Shadowstrike to go up to 2000.

Or I can take one of those new Stormhawk/stormtalon attack wings...

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
Quick question - I'm running Imperial Fists. If I use the IF-specific detachment, and I take two Battle Demi-Companies, do I get the 'company support' bonus? (free transports).

I'm sort of assuming not, because I think that's a bonus of the Gladius, but I don't have my codex at the moment (lent it to a mate... doh!).

I was going to run Battle Company (because it's on par with the kind of filth lists my housemate will run) but I wouldn't shy away from the IF detachment (as it's easy to add in TFC, Vindicator, Stormtalons) as we occasionally play toned-down armies (I have tyranids, he has DE).

No, the Company Support bonus is exclusive to the Gladius Strike Force. The Sternhammer has its own bonuses. There is a bit of a trade-off. You can get Twin-Linked Bolt weapons, even without using two Core choices, or you can get free transports with two Battle Demi-Companies. The Sternhammer definitely is much more versatile, due to all of its cheap Auxiliaries and the fact you only need to bring one core choice.

as it is the IFs are really the only chapter able to take more then 2 squads of devestator centurions MAX in a single strike force.

 krodarklorr wrote:
My disappointment was that it was released. I want a damn supplement already, and Imperials didn't need more stuff.

Hey, it is not the Imperials getting stuff, just the Marines. Once again the Imperial Guard and Sisters of Near Squatted are being forgotten about.

I am sick of these SM focussed releases though. SW have a great codex, so instead of releasing a new codex for one of the weaker factions lets release a NEW SW Codex. SM are competitive and we cannot really excuse the release of another codex so lets release a multitude of expansion books for them!

I mean hell, look at some of the stuff they are getting. The Psychic powers make no sense. Most of the Geomancy ones should be chaos and that Shifting Worldscape just stinks of Tzeench to me, but oh no, GW's Marty Sue poster boys have to get yet more expansions and yet they still complain because it is not as overpowered as they want.

What about us GW? The Sisters, the Orks, the Guard, the chaos and the Dark Eldar?

 master of ordinance wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
My disappointment was that it was released. I want a damn supplement already, and Imperials didn't need more stuff.

Hey, it is not the Imperials getting stuff, just the Marines. Once again the Imperial Guard and Sisters of Near Squatted are being forgotten about.

I am sick of these SM focussed releases though. SW have a great codex, so instead of releasing a new codex for one of the weaker factions lets release a NEW SW Codex. SM are competitive and we cannot really excuse the release of another codex so lets release a multitude of expansion books for them!

I mean hell, look at some of the stuff they are getting. The Psychic powers make no sense. Most of the Geomancy ones should be chaos and that Shifting Worldscape just stinks of Tzeench to me, but oh no, GW's Marty Sue poster boys have to get yet more expansions and yet they still complain because it is not as overpowered as they want.

What about us GW? The Sisters, the Orks, the Guard, the chaos and the Dark Eldar?

Imperial Guard got a supplement a lot more recent than Dark Angels, Blood Angels, or Grey Knights did. And besides mono-build Ravenwing, none of those armies are competitive on their own. Blood Angels just lost their only relevant use with the new FAQ. Grey Knights aren't even a legitimate solo army.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
My disappointment was that it was released. I want a damn supplement already, and Imperials didn't need more stuff.

Hey, it is not the Imperials getting stuff, just the Marines. Once again the Imperial Guard and Sisters of Near Squatted are being forgotten about.

I am sick of these SM focussed releases though. SW have a great codex, so instead of releasing a new codex for one of the weaker factions lets release a NEW SW Codex. SM are competitive and we cannot really excuse the release of another codex so lets release a multitude of expansion books for them!

I mean hell, look at some of the stuff they are getting. The Psychic powers make no sense. Most of the Geomancy ones should be chaos and that Shifting Worldscape just stinks of Tzeench to me, but oh no, GW's Marty Sue poster boys have to get yet more expansions and yet they still complain because it is not as overpowered as they want.

What about us GW? The Sisters, the Orks, the Guard, the chaos and the Dark Eldar?

Imperial Guard got a supplement a lot more recent than Dark Angels, Blood Angels, or Grey Knights did. And besides mono-build Ravenwing, none of those armies are competitive on their own. Blood Angels just lost their only relevant use with the new FAQ. Grey Knights aren't even a legitimate solo army.

We did? Ahh yes, that collection of one good, two okayish and the rest useless Cadian formations.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
My disappointment was that it was released. I want a damn supplement already, and Imperials didn't need more stuff.

Hey, it is not the Imperials getting stuff, just the Marines. Once again the Imperial Guard and Sisters of Near Squatted are being forgotten about.

I am sick of these SM focussed releases though. SW have a great codex, so instead of releasing a new codex for one of the weaker factions lets release a NEW SW Codex. SM are competitive and we cannot really excuse the release of another codex so lets release a multitude of expansion books for them!

I mean hell, look at some of the stuff they are getting. The Psychic powers make no sense. Most of the Geomancy ones should be chaos and that Shifting Worldscape just stinks of Tzeench to me, but oh no, GW's Marty Sue poster boys have to get yet more expansions and yet they still complain because it is not as overpowered as they want.

What about us GW? The Sisters, the Orks, the Guard, the chaos and the Dark Eldar?

Imperial Guard got a supplement a lot more recent than Dark Angels, Blood Angels, or Grey Knights did. And besides mono-build Ravenwing, none of those armies are competitive on their own. Blood Angels just lost their only relevant use with the new FAQ. Grey Knights aren't even a legitimate solo army.

We did? Ahh yes, that collection of one good, two okayish and the rest useless Cadian formations.

And yet, that is still more than Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights have received.

nekooni wrote:

Zelarias wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
ohh boo hoo hoo! my chapter special strike force isn't notably better in every way then the Gladius strike force! BOO HOO HOO! then take the gladius, you've still got the options to use two strike forces, unlike Ultramarines who JUST have the Gladius

Strike Force Ultra.......

And if we want to get technical about it, they have their own unique rules given anyway within the regular codex. While I was baffled by them nor being in the Angels of Death supplement, I do remember reading in that supplement that they follow the codex astartes pretty strictly, so they'd stick to what's on the codex: space marines more than anything I bet. However, the skyhammmer annihilation force is from the Ultramarines so they do have something in there. Isn't the first non chapter specific strike force (Anvil Strike Force I think it was...) supposed to be something that they mention the Ultramarines would use?

Isn't the Strike Force Ultra available to all Vanilla chapters, though?

And yes, the Anvil SF is a generic one, usable by all Vanilla chapters.

Yeah, but besides missing a set of Artifacts that might be unique to the Ultramarines after their extensive history traversing the galaxy, you're told right in the supplement that the Ultramarines are the ones who wrote the book that everyone uses to fight with and developed Strike Force Ultra in the first place (p6 Angels of Death Supplement). Ultramarines wouldn't really get more unique formations if their fluff already has them fighting by the book instead of deviating away from it. I see it as Codex: Space Marines = Codex Astartes, hence the extensive inclusion of Ultramarines hero models in that book. Ultramarines are pretty much "It worked for the past 5,000 years, and it will work 5,000 more; we need not deviate from our glorious legacy!" There's not much room for creativity (aka new formations out of the blue) when their whole MO is follow what this man wrote to the letter because reasons.

The vanilla marine chapter that follows the codex to the letter is fighting as the Ultramarines would and would please the Ultramarines greatly. Their tactics are already explained in the Codex: Space Marines book as that's what they get that's special to them. Sharing the same artifacts is probably something that would be different if they had added them in, but otherwise everything in the Codex: Space Marines is the Ultramarines.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
My disappointment was that it was released. I want a damn supplement already, and Imperials didn't need more stuff.

Hey, it is not the Imperials getting stuff, just the Marines. Once again the Imperial Guard and Sisters of Near Squatted are being forgotten about.

I am sick of these SM focussed releases though. SW have a great codex, so instead of releasing a new codex for one of the weaker factions lets release a NEW SW Codex. SM are competitive and we cannot really excuse the release of another codex so lets release a multitude of expansion books for them!

I mean hell, look at some of the stuff they are getting. The Psychic powers make no sense. Most of the Geomancy ones should be chaos and that Shifting Worldscape just stinks of Tzeench to me, but oh no, GW's Marty Sue poster boys have to get yet more expansions and yet they still complain because it is not as overpowered as they want.

What about us GW? The Sisters, the Orks, the Guard, the chaos and the Dark Eldar?

Imperial Guard got a supplement a lot more recent than Dark Angels, Blood Angels, or Grey Knights did. And besides mono-build Ravenwing, none of those armies are competitive on their own. Blood Angels just lost their only relevant use with the new FAQ. Grey Knights aren't even a legitimate solo army.

We did? Ahh yes, that collection of one good, two okayish and the rest useless Cadian formations.

And yet, that is still more than Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights have received.

Nah, the DA just have an amazing codex with 2+ rerollable jink saves and the like everywhere whilst the GK have that formation that lets them all DS on turn one.

 master of ordinance wrote:
Nah, the DA just have an amazing codex with 2+ rerollable jink saves and the like everywhere whilst the GK have that formation that lets them all DS on turn one.

Monobuild = amazing. You heard it here first, folks! How often do you see DA units other than bikes or speeders on the table?

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Nah, the DA just have an amazing codex with 2+ rerollable jink saves and the like everywhere whilst the GK have that formation that lets them all DS on turn one.

Monobuild = amazing. You heard it here first, folks! How often do you see DA units other than bikes or speeders on the table?

Well the DW doesn't start on the table and then auto-looses, but does it count anyway?

Well, the book isn't disappointing, some SM players just have had exagerated expectations. I, as an ork player am just disappointed about the unnecesary psycik powers the SM got. Other than that there isn't much to complain about. IH and WS are prety nice, RG is an interesting one and IF and Salamaders are prety fluffy. I just hope GW now concludes that SM have gotten enough attention and turns to weaker codices that NEED new formations/rules and decurion-style detachments.

Yeah, as I said many of those powers (in particular that Shifting Worldscape power) should have been Chaos powers.

nekooni wrote:

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Nah, the DA just have an amazing codex with 2+ rerollable jink saves and the like everywhere whilst the GK have that formation that lets them all DS on turn one.

Monobuild = amazing. You heard it here first, folks! How often do you see DA units other than bikes or speeders on the table?

Well the DW doesn't start on the table and then auto-looses, but does it count anyway?

I guess that means DW is amazing too. Just like RW with flyers, automatic losses are a clear sign of an amazing codex.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

nekooni wrote:

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Nah, the DA just have an amazing codex with 2+ rerollable jink saves and the like everywhere whilst the GK have that formation that lets them all DS on turn one.

Monobuild = amazing. You heard it here first, folks! How often do you see DA units other than bikes or speeders on the table?

Well the DW doesn't start on the table and then auto-looses, but does it count anyway?

I guess that means DW is amazing too. Just like RW with flyers, automatic losses are a clear sign of an amazing codex.

Your opponents will be amazed you brought that list.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Black Templar players have a reason to be peeved, as they got nothing at all. (Oooooo, some Warlord Traits!)

As one of 40-something 2nd founding chapters I'm not sure why they would expect to get anything. No one's complaining that the Nova Marines or Fists Exemplar didn't get anything.

It's a big step down from when they had their own codex.

DA are a bit like the Tyranids of marines. Having one good build gets tiresome and wastes a huge amount of one's model collection.

pm713 wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Black Templar players have a reason to be peeved, as they got nothing at all. (Oooooo, some Warlord Traits!)

As one of 40-something 2nd founding chapters I'm not sure why they would expect to get anything. No one's complaining that the Nova Marines or Fists Exemplar didn't get anything.

It's a big step down from when they had their own codex.

I've got to be honest, I was suprised the Black Templars didn't get their own decurion that allowed them to take Crusader squads. Maybe they will get their own expansion at some point.

The problems with Tyranids, BA, and Orks are probably so subtle that GW doesn't even understand the problem. They're not subtle to us, but remember that GW staff are outsiders to their own game.