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I pose the question to my fellow dakkanites about the use of non-GW models in games of 40K.

I myself use models from many different sources, for example, Bikes from puppetswar, Renegade Chaos Knight from Dreamforge games, renegade heretics from wargames factory, etc, etc. All of my models are painted very well and based on nicely painted resin bases, but from what I understand, there are some people that would not want to play against this army due to not all the models coming from GW.

What is your opinion on this, and where do you stand on the use of non-GW models in game play and should armies like mine be allowed to play at tournaments?

If it's a model it's fine, if it's a coke can carnifex then maybe a game or two is fine.

I personally use the "rule of cool", meaning that if someone took the time and effort to convert a non-GW model into something that resembles the "official" model, then it is fine with me. But then again, I'm a little biased. LOL

Non GW models for the sake of it fitting your theme better then by all means go ahead.

just dont expect be allowed into Tournament based in a GW store or ones that state it has to be GW models.

side note. so has snob become the new Thug in the hobby world or something? im seeing it way more lately

If your alternative models are a good fit for their GW counterparts then it's all good in my book. So base sizes should be the same, the model itself should have roughly the same dimensions and wargear etc should ideally be comparable. The first two would be the most important to me though. If you meet those criteria then (IMO) you should be free to use them in any game except at a GW store/event.

Go for it. Size, theme, and coolness will all be considered. If you plop down some green army men as your guard, I will give you dirty looks.

I know from past experiences that there are some people on this very site that straight up refuse to play against an army that's not made up of actual GW or forgeworld models, would they be considered a "proxy snob"?

 sub-zero wrote:
I know from past experiences that there are some people on this very site that straight up refuse to play against an army that's not made up of actual GW or forgeworld models, would they be considered a "proxy snob"?

Who cares its there opinion and decision.

As long as it's reasonably sized and detailed, I can't see why anyone would care.

The only time I would really care about using kustom models would be if they wanted to use like a hot wheels car for a baneblade or something, and wanted to claim LOS shenanigans.

But if it's within, say, 25% the size of the official model, I can't imagine anyone caring at all. I use tons of kustom models and people notice, but seem more interested than annoyed.

I'm ok with someone using paper models or extreme proxies just to test something out, as well, if it's temporary.

So long as it's roughly the same size and equipped properly, I'm generally unconcerned. I have tons of conversions that use a third party model as a base. Most of my Ork Nobz are Privateer Press Trollblood models with GW Ork heads and GW weapons. Nobody has complained, but then again, my models are pretty close to WYSIWYG. A GW Big Shoota is a GW Big Shoota and requires no explanation. A Privateer Press weapon ISN'T a Big Shoota and may confuse your opponent. The less confusion, the better.

So, I'm generally ok with something that is close being used as a proxy. I'm totally not ok with something that is different being used as a proxy unless my opponent normally doesn't do this and is just testing something out before making a purchase. If you want to test out a Lascannon Marine, and want to use a Multi-melta Marine as a stand in, fine for one or two games tops. After that, buy a Lascannon Marine or stop using it.

One of the main arguments that I've heard from certain people are the use of non-forgeworld models, their justification is that they have spent the ridiculous amounts of money for their models and you should as well...

As long as it's roughly the same size and I know what its a proxy for then I'm good.

More bonus points if it fits a theme or looks better than the GW one too

If time, effort, skill and attention has been put into proxying something that fits the 40K aesthetics then I have no problem with it. Being a GW only snob is pathetic

 sub-zero wrote:
One of the main arguments that I've heard from certain people are the use of non-forgeworld models, their justification is that they have spent the ridiculous amounts of money for their models and you should as well...

Well, most of the third party models have similar costs or are even more expensive than GW-stuff, so I on't see why anyone would complain (though I know which thread you are referring to).
As a Nurgle-player I have numerous sources where I can get models from and unfortunately for my wallet I'd like to collect all of them

Proxies in good faith, yeah. I don't really see how proxies would lessen enjoyment if they reasonably resemble what the model could be, imagined differently.

Except for:

Corkboard cutout the size of a base with nothing else - "This is my [model], I like using it because people forget it's there." TFG.

I'm ok if you use even 100% kromlech models or other such alternate 40k modelers. Other things......eeeehhhhhh it really depends if you put in the conversion work or not. Apocalypse games sure: bring out the weird vehicles.

I am also ok with 1 or 2 proxies like if you got 2 rokkit kans and a grotzooka and want them to count as grotzookas (gw is notorious for 1 of each heavy weapon). But if more than a couple models aren't WYSIWYG than no. I don't want to have to read a copy of your army list all game. Its too much work to put on another player if you ask me.

Proxy =/= Alternative model.

A proxy is something that represents something it is not, mostly because what is meant to be represented is not available at the moment (for any given reason).

This night goblin stands in for a necron warrior -> proxy. This can stands in for a drop pod -> proxy.

An alternative model is a model produced by a different company than the one which publishes the game, but it accurately represents (within a reasonable spectrum) the model in question.

I'm a big fan of alternative models. This hobby should stimulate creativity and imagination, for me that means converting, scratch-building and assembling models with parts from different origins. I use converted Puppetswar doombikers for some of my CSM bikers (unit champions and characters) as I find the bikes way better than GW's and it helps them stand out. I'm also converting a M113 APC (1/35 scale) to use as a rhino, since it's pretty much the vehicle that inspired the rhino and the size difference is pretty minimal, I see no issue with it. My guard has quite a bunch of alternative models too, in fact the only GW kits are the vehicles and a few metal models here and there, the infantry is mostly made up from Warzone, Wargames Factory, Dreamforge, a few models from Achtung! Cthulhu, etc.

If someone has issues with said alternative models (models I bought, assembled and painted), then the one refusing them a game will be me. I don't play against GWombies.

I have 2 large fantasy and 4 large 40K armies. Mostly GW miniatures. If I want to switch it up with other minis I will do so.

One of my armies is orks, I have 60 ork boys so far. My next purchase will be some non gw minis to switch it up. If someone doesn't like it tough

If it's decent looking and comparably sized and (most important of all) easy to distinguish which is what in game...game on! I draw the line though when someone comes up to me and wants a game, and their GK Purifier squad is just a bunch of quarters...couldn't even muster bases....!

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 sub-zero wrote:
One of the main arguments that I've heard from certain people are the use of non-forgeworld models, their justification is that they have spent the ridiculous amounts of money for their models and you should as well...

Well, most of the third party models have similar costs or are even more expensive than GW-stuff, so I on't see why anyone would complain (though I know which thread you are referring to).
As a Nurgle-player I have numerous sources where I can get models from and unfortunately for my wallet I'd like to collect all of them

Can you share a link to that thread?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Korinov wrote:
Proxy =/= Alternative model.

A proxy is something that represents something it is not, mostly because what is meant to be represented is not available at the moment (for any given reason).

This night goblin stands in for a necron warrior -> proxy. This can stands in for a drop pod -> proxy.

An alternative model is a model produced by a different company than the one which publishes the game, but it accurately represents (within a reasonable spectrum) the model in question.

I'm a big fan of alternative models. This hobby should stimulate creativity and imagination, for me that means converting, scratch-building and assembling models with parts from different origins. I use converted Puppetswar doombikers for some of my CSM bikers (unit champions and characters) as I find the bikes way better than GW's and it helps them stand out. I'm also converting a M113 APC (1/35 scale) to use as a rhino, since it's pretty much the vehicle that inspired the rhino and the size difference is pretty minimal, I see no issue with it. My guard has quite a bunch of alternative models too, in fact the only GW kits are the vehicles and a few metal models here and there, the infantry is mostly made up from Warzone, Wargames Factory, Dreamforge, a few models from Achtung! Cthulhu, etc.

If someone has issues with said alternative models (models I bought, assembled and painted), then the one refusing them a game will be me. I don't play against GWombies.

You're correct, I mean alternate model instead of a proxy. lol BTW, I have the Doombikers in transit for my Chaos army, do you have any pictures or ideas for converting them?

If it's a good facsimile for what it replaces, works for me. Effort should be expended to ensure it matches the original unit's size, paint scheme, aesthetic and equipment.

Once explained to an opponent they shouldn't struggle to remember.

Generic alternative power armour figure with rifle = space marine.

Chainmail bikini babe with wings and a whip =/= space marine.

for just friendly games i was thinking of picking these up for my KDK army http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/forces-of-the-abyss/product/succubi-regiment.html

would anyone care that they're females and would technically fit slaanesh better?

Its your army, do what you think looks best. For your opponent's sake, if you're playing a Khorne themed army where the rest of it is obviously khorne through paint and modelling, then just make sure they fit the same colour scheme and Skull per square inch quotient so your opponent doesn't get confused.

Those models do look pretty cool.

 Blacksails wrote:
Its your army, do what you think looks best. For your opponent's sake, if you're playing a Khorne themed army where the rest of it is obviously khorne through paint and modelling, then just make sure they fit the same colour scheme and Skull per square inch quotient so your opponent doesn't get confused.

Those models do look pretty cool.

Aye, don't forget your bucket of blood per member to get that Khorne feeling jusssst right.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Its your army, do what you think looks best. For your opponent's sake, if you're playing a Khorne themed army where the rest of it is obviously khorne through paint and modelling, then just make sure they fit the same colour scheme and Skull per square inch quotient so your opponent doesn't get confused.

Those models do look pretty cool.

Aye, don't forget your bucket of blood per member to get that Khorne feeling jusssst right.

Well, contrary to popular belief, i don't think the red is actually their skin colour

As a hobbyist, I'd prioritize cool looking models. As an opponent, I'd prefer it if it was obvious what the model represented.

Proxying to trial a unit before buying it I don't mind, but I wouldn't be impressed if someone tried to use 2nd ed gretchin as meganobz on a permanent basis.

I don't care if people are playing with pennies and lego-men.

I'd rather play a game than not play a game.