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For those of us unaware of our opponent list, is keeping melta around a good idea? I really hate melta in 7th, as the table has been nerfed and MCs just laugh it off like I didn't fire anything at them. Is plasma more TAC? I don't think regular grav guns are TAC at all, because of no reroll on wounds. Or maybe there is no right answer for lists without access to grav cannons.

Plasma is more TAC, for sure. Melta does have one thing going for it in a blind match in that it ID's both T3 and T4 models.

Having played many, many games with melta bikers I've found they're rarely worth their points, at least directly. The only AV targets in range will be cheap transports so if I want to use my meltaguns at all I have to shoot at those. I'm considering swapping the biker squad for some MM Attack Bikes to see if they do any better. If only I could take grav cannons on those!

My lists have a ton of plasmaguns (talons) but I do sometimes feel like I'm missing a few grav shots because the guns aren't as reliable as the cannons. It's hard for me to say what is truly more TAC but putting grav on relentless platofrms (bikes) and plasma on others doesn't seem like a horrible idea. Unless you are planning on dropping right next to a MC, then I guess grav does the trick just as well.

Melta also frags the crap out of IKs, which is moderately valuable.

I quit using melta bikers in 5th. I only roll with MM attack bikes now. Bikers get grav now, period.

Martel732 wrote:
Melta also frags the crap out of IKs, which is moderately valuable.

I quit using melta bikers in 5th. I only roll with MM attack bikes now. Bikers get grav now, period.

I think that the only times I've faced Knights with my bikers I've managed to Outflank my meltas on the wrong side of the battlefield, where the only target is a Rhino at best. I'd much rather shoot at the Knights than beat them up with Corvus Hammers so I guess melta will always have a place in my lists.

If only melta wasn't basically worthless vs MCs.

Martel732 wrote:
If only melta wasn't basically worthless vs MCs.

If the only vehicles worth shooting at are always out of range, then I agree it's not worth it. Melta is a tool for people to deal with AV14 but nowadays it's hard to find anyone who would want to field a Land Raider. Even if such a miracle would happen, grav would still be more effective dealing with it than melta, unless you can get in to half range. Against MCs both plasma and grav are obviously superior to melta. I really hope that the Tech-priests of Nottingham uncover some ancient STC for a rapid fire multi-melta or something similar, maybe then grav would not be always the best answer.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
If only melta wasn't basically worthless vs MCs.

If the only vehicles worth shooting at are always out of range, then I agree it's not worth it. Melta is a tool for people to deal with AV14 but nowadays it's hard to find anyone who would want to field a Land Raider. Even if such a miracle would happen, grav would still be more effective dealing with it than melta, unless you can get in to half range. Against MCs both plasma and grav are obviously superior to melta. I really hope that the Tech-priests of Nottingham uncover some ancient STC for a rapid fire multi-melta or something similar, maybe then grav would not be always the best answer.

I'd rather they rebalance melta/plasma/grav and make them each unique.

As it stands now you have grav on relentless platforms as the preferred option to deal with deathstars/vehicles/MC/TEQ. You take anything else when you're forced to.

On my space marines I always take meltas on my required tactical squads and even 1 or 2 combi meltas in my sternguard. I like what they bring to the table and my local meta does not have absurb MC spam so they have a place.

I'm going to build and magnetise up some sternguard soon. Probably suicide melta squad (combi-meltas, meltaguns, drop pod).

Having one way to melt a knight seems like a good idea.

Grimdark wrote:

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
If only melta wasn't basically worthless vs MCs.

If the only vehicles worth shooting at are always out of range, then I agree it's not worth it. Melta is a tool for people to deal with AV14 but nowadays it's hard to find anyone who would want to field a Land Raider. Even if such a miracle would happen, grav would still be more effective dealing with it than melta, unless you can get in to half range. Against MCs both plasma and grav are obviously superior to melta. I really hope that the Tech-priests of Nottingham uncover some ancient STC for a rapid fire multi-melta or something similar, maybe then grav would not be always the best answer.

I'd rather they rebalance melta/plasma/grav and make them each unique.

As it stands now you have grav on relentless platforms as the preferred option to deal with deathstars/vehicles/MC/TEQ. You take anything else when you're forced to.

When you say rebalance do you mean changing grav or changing melta/plasma? As it stands right now, "balancing" grav would mean the end of the only effective way for marines to deal with MCs. I'd be completely fine with this if it happened at the same time as bringing MCs down to a reasonable level, not any sooner. Armies that don't have access to monstrous creatures MUST have access to effective methods of fighting them.

Or make old school heavy weapons hurt MCs more; ie, multiple wounds removed.

blind lists? I only play my lists like that otherwise it is list tailorinjg. when playing my marines I go for melta in each tac squad and combi meltas where ever possible. I encounter a lot of armor in my meta though one guy likes his 4 kinight 1850 list and many will bring super heavies in 1250+

Some things require melta/equivalent, so a handful of it is pretty mandatory imo.

I guess it depends on the army how much, my marines run lots of multi-meltas & meltaguns in legion of the damned squads (with reserve re-rolls), the rest is Grav and bolters, which fulfil most roles. I could see how melta lacking reliable deep strike manipulation & ignore cover could be fairly lacklustre though.

In my Tau army, I tend to skimp on melta as st7 spam covers most things and it takes more effort to deliver suicide melta crisis suits. Marines have much better tools to deliver melta and have a chance of surviving afterwards.

The thing about melta vs plasma is that it's actually apples and oranges. Plasma serves a different primary purpose to melta and because of that they aren't really interchangable, if you need to nuke armor Melta is almost always going to utterly indispensable, killing khorne dogs is always easier with melta than plasma. Not killing your own guys is better with melta etc.

Plasma ISN'T competing with melta in most circumstances. Plasma competes with GRAV; that is where the overlap is and that's why very few competitive lists bring more than 2 plasma guns but 15 grav cannons.

In a choice between a grav gun and a plasma gun always drop 20pts somewhere else and bring a grav cannon(unless bikes or cataphractii S&P grav command squad.)

You can kill a LOT of vehicles without melta. I've seen more IKs die to scatterlasers than my melta.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
blind lists? I only play my lists like that otherwise it is list tailorinjg.

~*same*~


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I include some melta for vehicles but it hasn't often helped.

Martel732 wrote:
You can kill a LOT of vehicles without melta. I've seen more IKs die to scatterlasers than my melta.

If you noticed, my final point was actually screw both of those, but screw melta less, and take grav cannons

I'm thinking of exclusively bringing MM if I do bring Melta. Meltaguns are just too short ranged to really make use of it. But 2D6 for Armour Penetration has it's uses, as does a 24" range.

BA don't get grav cannons.

Indeed. The only Grav BA can take (allies aside) are Grav Pistols (which no-one uses) and Grav Guns/Combi-Gravs (which I only use on Relentless Platforms, otherwise I find the Plasma Gun better in almost every regard).

I take Melta all the time. Then again, Melta is all Sisters get

 Frozocrone wrote:
Indeed. The only Grav BA can take (allies aside) are Grav Pistols (which no-one uses) and Grav Guns/Combi-Gravs (which I only use on Relentless Platforms, otherwise I find the Plasma Gun better in almost every regard).

Rofl, totally missed that it was BA; was reading it as DA. addendum then, don't play shooty BA until they get grav.

40k I prefer to take plasma or grav as they both have perfect uses.
Melta requires getting too lose to a decent target to make it worthwhile.

30k is even worse, as most points heavy armoured targets are usually immune to melta, which makes it even more redundant.
And to top it off, there is no true grav weapons readily available either.

The one place that melta surpasses grav is regarding buildings, which are immune to grav. WIth the potential rise of the flying Bastion/Aquila strong point, this could become a factor - I know i'm abusing it with extreme glee these days.

Otherwise, speaking as a Russ running tread head, grav is flat out more dangerous in every situation, with the sole saving grace that it's generally a lot more expensive than meltas.